ash48: (Batcave Legs up)
[personal profile] ash48
I'm torn between not wanting to think too hard about this episode and actually thinking too darn hard about it.



The problem for me with episodes like this (read that as episodes by The Duo) is the amount of questions (and holes) it creates. I don't mind "good" questions - like what are the BMoL up to, who are they etc (because we haven't been given all that info yet) but it's the stuff that doesn't make sense that frustrates me. The Duo are notorious for developing "handy" solutions for their narratives. That magic egg suddenly making an appearance just smacked of a lazy solution to me. I mean, I loved that Sam got to wield it and the effects were pretty cool but I had trouble letting go of my eye-rolling on that one.

Also, what powers does Cas actually have? He can exert mind control it seems but he can't use any power to, say, keep doors shut or toss people round? There were so many opportunities for Cas to use some sort of power but he never did. I mean I GET IT. They can't have Cas fully powered up but, once again, Cas came across as ineffectual. When he got out of the car (when the boys were confronted with the secret police) I thought we were going to get some of that bad ass Cas we saw earlier - but Dean stopped him and Ketch saved the day.

Something else that irked me was Sam reaching out to the BMoL. I'm just not sure why he'd do that. After what they out him through I'm pretty sure he'd never want to have anything to do with them again. I suppose he was desperate but still. Again, it was a "handy" way of getting the BMoL involved. It would have been more natural if they appeared because they had been following them (as was set up in earlier episodes).

Sam and Dean being caught in the end of sloppy (they must have realised they had to get out of there quickly), the boys touching surfaces in a murder scene is always frustrating (don't open a door with ungloved hands boys!) and Cas losing Kelly was also sloppy.

All that aside there were some interesting developments. The boys going to prison (didn't see that one coming) and the potential of the Nephilim is intriguing. I'm wondering now if that will create part of the season finale. I suspect we'll hear no more of that for a while - probably more of the BMoL and Mary etc and then back to that part of the narrative.

Sam getting to say "go to Hell" to Lucifer was satisfying and the boys thinking they actually got Lucifer was a bitter/sweet moment. I have no idea what actually happened at the end - I'm assuming Lucifer is still around because going down a vent surely doesn't mean he's gone back to hell? Or did he get kind of split up? It looked like some of him went into the egg thing and some down the vent? I dunno.

The President being possessed is far too damn close to reality - though it didn't feel like the show was making any comment about the current political situation. I loved the "just nuke 'em" line.

Overall, I'm not a huge fan of the ensemble episodes (hmmm, though maybe that depends on the ensemble..). I get why we have them (and I'm glad the boys had an easy schedule for this one), but I'm happiest when my screen is mostly filled Sam and Dean *g*. I'm kinda shallow like that ;D


Side note: I'm a bad LJ fan at the moment. I hardly ever pop by. I'm genuinely sorry about that - life just seems full of other stuff atm. :/ *hugs* to you all.

Date: 2016-12-09 03:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harrigan.livejournal.com
Pretty much agreeing with all of that!

I liked the 'nuke 'em' line, and I think the actor did an excellent job playing the president. The girlfriend actress was good too.

Castiel's vacillating powers bug the heck out of me. The writers let him have whatever he needs whenever he needs it to resolve the current situation (deus ex machina: angel-version), but he apparently doesn't have any powers when the writers don't want them used?

Where Lucifer went at the end is unclear to me. Where did Rowena banish him to? Or just 'out' (a floor vent)? I didn't enjoy the episode enough to want to watch it again to figure it out.The boys' dialogue seemed a bit over-triumphant: surely Lucifer will be back in some form. (I thought Rick Springfield did a great job by the way too.)

It didn't bother me as much as you that Sam called the BMOL. I can almost imagine Dean holding a bigger grudge against them than Sam (at least, the Dean in my imagination-- the episode where Dean found Sam left a little to be desired). I can accept that Sam felt so overwhelmed at the situation that he considered calling them, but hung up before connecting.

On the other hand, I totally agree with you that it's ridiculous that two intelligent, experienced hunters would sit around waiting for the president to wake up knowing the Secret Service is just feet away and has orders to eliminate them. Seriously???

I really wish that the CW and Supernatural would come to an agreement *now* that they would end at the 300th episode and then write an arc that will wrap everything up in mid-season 14, so we can enjoy a slow build and foreshadowing... and some logic. And much as I love them, I don't think I want to see the boys in their 40s still doing this.

Date: 2016-12-09 03:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amberdreams.livejournal.com
"much as I love them, I don't think I want to see the boys in their 40s still doing this." I agree - unless someone comes in with a superbly engaging and challenging storyline which could take us on a five year journey and then bring the thing to a fabulously clever conclusion. If they got some of the best fanfic writers in we could sort that out for them but as they won't even think of such a thing, then yes please, end this on the 300, give us and the Winchesters closure.

Date: 2016-12-09 06:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] quickreaver.livejournal.com
HEAR HEAR. I think I'd rather them wrap the show in the next season or so, enjoy their young families for a few years, then "come out of retirement" for a cinematic movie. HEY, A GIRL CAN DREAM!

Date: 2016-12-10 10:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
Hey hun!

but he apparently doesn't have any powers when the writers don't want them used?

This is the thing I get frustrated with the most. They can given him these "sensing the truth" powers, but not that someone is planning to give him the slip.

The boys' dialogue seemed a bit over-triumphant: surely Lucifer will be back in some form.

Yes. Especially as we saw him go down that vent - and not burn a hole in the floor like demons (and angels?) do when they go to hell.

and then write an arc that will wrap everything up in mid-season 14, so we can enjoy a slow build and foreshadowing...

That would be awesome. I'd love them to build toward a series finale that was powerful and well considered. I think that might be wishful thinking though.

xx

Date: 2016-12-09 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amberdreams.livejournal.com
I could see Sam calling the MoLs simply because Sam does tend to have this aptitude for forgiveness. Maybe in part because he still thinks he deserves abuse, but also I think it's part of his coping strategy to move on, put the past behind him. He tends to be very pragmatic about his own emotions. I wonder if it's something to do with having lost control so badly with the demon blood, so he's constantly trying to avoid putting his feelings in the way of progress. Or something.

Not that I think the terrible duo understand any of that. I get the feeling that if they nail a character it's largely down to luck and the actors' good graces.

Knowing this was the writing team, now a lot of the faults in the episode make a lot more sense.

Date: 2016-12-09 03:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harrigan.livejournal.com
I could see Sam calling the MoLs simply because Sam does tend to have this aptitude for forgiveness. Maybe in part because he still thinks he deserves abuse, but also I think it's part of his coping strategy to move on, put the past behind him.

This! Exactly!

Date: 2016-12-09 06:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] quickreaver.livejournal.com
Not that I think the terrible duo understand any of that. I get the feeling that if they nail a character it's largely down to luck and the actors' good graces.

YEEEEEUP. (I had a tough time buying that Sam would call the BMoL, but the way you explore it, I can almost see it. Except I'm 2000% sure the Duo didn't consider this. It was just a handy plot device for them. AND I LOATHE THIS. If you've gotta do backflips in your brain to justify why a character would do something, the writing has failed, IMHO.)

Date: 2016-12-10 11:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
I could see Sam calling the MoLs simply because Sam does tend to have this aptitude for forgiveness.

Yes. I can actually accept this. At the end of 12.02 Sam sat at the dinner table and seemed to hold no grudges or even PTSD after his ordeal. This moves on from that.

I get the feeling that if they nail a character it's largely down to luck and the actors' good graces.

Definitely!

I like your thinking!

Date: 2016-12-09 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] runedgirl.livejournal.com
Agreed agreed agreed! I wasn't exactly bored with this episode, just intermittently very frustrated and then suddenly midly amused and then weirdly like mmm boys in handcuffs... It was a confusing mix of emotions to say the least!

ps - I was happy to see a post from you this morning, NGL :)

Date: 2016-12-09 06:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] quickreaver.livejournal.com
LOL, this was my experience too! Knowing it was the Duo, I was ready to hate it, but when I didn't, I was bemused. But then plot holes, but good acting, but pretty boys...

I think I need a drink.

Date: 2016-12-10 11:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
Exactly! I had moments of being a bit bored but then got engaged again. It was a weird episode in many ways.

ps - I was happy to see a post from you this morning, NGL :)

<33 I miss not being as active, but to be honest I am struggling to I am lacking motivation. I'm not sure if it's the season, my busy life or just not being as invested as I used to. I always check around the place though and enjoy hearing everyone thoughts.
*hugs*

Date: 2016-12-09 06:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] quickreaver.livejournal.com
Gonna comment real quick-like before I read any of the other comments, just to keep my brain straight!

I totally agree with you, here. For a Duo episode, it wasn't as bad as some have been, but the plot holes and how much disbelief I had to suspend was giving me a headache.

Something else that irked me was Sam reaching out to the BMoL. ME TOO. The other mildly irksome stuff, I could hand-wave. But this one? ALL THE NOPE.

I'm also of the belief the show needs to figure out what angels can and cannot do, these days. How can you stick to the rules of your own universe IF YOU DON'T HAVE THEM? Come on, Dabb, tighten the reins, buddy.

I need to rewatch and ponder on this episode a little, yes indeedy.

PS...I MISS YOUR MUSK, LADY. ;D
Edited Date: 2016-12-09 06:26 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-12-10 11:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
but the plot holes and how much disbelief I had to suspend was giving me a headache.

Trademark Duo!

PS...I MISS YOUR MUSK, LADY. ;D

*hugs*! I'm struggling to find time and I am lacking motivation generally I confess. <33

Date: 2016-12-09 08:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greyowl88.livejournal.com
I thought they sent Lucifer back into the cage during the exorcism? With Rowena doing the spell for it. That was my impression. I loved the whole scene! :D



Date: 2016-12-10 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cuddyclothes.livejournal.com
No, he's stuck in the floor vents in the motel.

Date: 2016-12-12 10:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
He seemed to go down the heating vent - so he may well still be there? I assume he's looking for a new vessel - though I also wonder if he was "split up" - I thought some of him went into the egg. But yeah - no idea where they're going with that.

xx

Date: 2016-12-12 11:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greyowl88.livejournal.com
All this magic work and spell doing for a simple heating vent hide out? Meh. Boo :/ Heating vent: the new Hell. :P lol Ah well. ;) xx

Date: 2016-12-10 07:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cuddyclothes.livejournal.com
For me this episode was a hot mess. Cas and Crowley rarely did anything to track down Lucifer during the entire arc. Mostly they just hung out. So many "WTF" questions and bad deus ex machina, I couldn't take it. Some nice moments (Dean envying the grenade launcher) but too much of it had me thinking, "I know the Deadly Duo suck, but did they have to suck THIS MUCH?"

They've already done the Antichrist, killed a nephilim who just wanted to live her life. I can't get myself to care about this one. I was hoping Kelly was going to kill herself to prevent the birth.

Date: 2016-12-12 10:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
Yeah, it left me underwhelmed. They really do struggle SO MUCH with what to do with Cas and Crowley. They ended up doing nothing much to help the situation - so really their whole arc was just a way to get rid of them during the MoTW episodes. They just don't want to write them out do they? It would save them so many problems with what to do with them.


I was hoping Kelly was going to kill herself to prevent the birth.

It might be on the cards for a later episode maybe? Though I suspect the birth will form part of the finale. I've lost complete interest in the myth arc eps. I would be happy if they just created MoTW eps. :)

Date: 2016-12-11 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] emma-in-oz.livejournal.com
I haven't watched since season 5 and have restarted. I was always most interested in the family relations between Dean, Sam and John, so having Mary in season 12 is intersting for me.

Basically I seem to have been able to skip 7 years of plot with no consequences.

Date: 2016-12-12 11:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
Basically I seem to have been able to skip 7 years of plot with no consequences.

Yep! In fact I think this is the best season for that. I'm loving Mary's return - I can't wait for her to be back in the episodes. :)

Date: 2016-12-12 01:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madebyme-x.livejournal.com
I'm with you!!! When I saw who was writing this episode, I didn't have huge expectations, but actually I was pleasantly surprised. There were things that I enjoyed, and things that surprised me, but there were some holes. I think I can accept that Sam called BMOL for the reasons people have mentioned above, but the Cas thing has bothered me for a while; what can he do and not do? It certainly feels like he can do certain things when the story line asks for it, which is lazy writing, and very frustrating to watch.

It did also bother me that the boys didn't take any precautions knowing that they were dealing with the president. But I don't know, maybe that was the point? Maybe they didn't think they'd be successful, and that they'd make out in one piece?

Personally, I thought that Lucifer was back in the cage; that Rowena did her cage spell combined with that very handy bomb thing. But maybe not? Thinking about it now it wasn't very clear, especially the vent part. But the boys' reactions seemed to suggest that he was gone, for good. I think we need further clarification on that, and I hope we get it in 12.09.

Overall it wasn't bad, and I kinda like this whole 'real' world and human threat thing, harking back to Hendrikson and the FBI. I didn't see this coming, and I'm intrigued with Kelly too.

Take care my friend, and happy holidays ♥

Date: 2016-12-12 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com
hi ash, just checking in. it seems its not time for me to come back to watching again based on your review. see you next year for more of your reviews <3. Happy Holidays, and take care <3

Shante

Date: 2016-12-15 01:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
it seems its not time for me to come back to watching again

I beg to differ! ;)

So far S12 has been one of my faves since probably s7? Hard to say, but aside from some little niggles I've really enjoyed this so far. I'm not sure if you like the MoTW eps but they have been great. The myth arc is not nearly as offensive as the past few seasons.

So I'd say if you're wanting to take a peek there's a lot of good things going on this season. :)

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