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I confess that ep wasn't really my cup of tea. I'm not sure if it didn't grab me because I was feeling pretty grumpy going into the ep (having a blue with my daughter will do that to me), or if I was genuinely just annoyed with it.

I felt that it was a well structure episode with some great performance from the guest stars, but I really do struggle with anything angel related these days. I think what might have set me off on the wrong foot was Dean being so damn churlish and petulant with Cas. I get being angry with Cas's decision for the consequence-inviting death of Billie - but the silent treatment? Really? I actually feel for the destiel fans sometimes. They really do set these two up with romantic overtones - with full knowledge that Dean and Cas are never going to be a couple. Is it to appease (tease?) a section of fandom? I dunno - but it makes it difficult for me to watch. I really want to believe Dean and Cas (and Sam dammit!) are best friends, but I seldom really feel it. I also want to see them as three brothers - but there's always something just slightly off about that for me as well.

Maybe it was just lacking some humour or something (or maybe I was! *g*)

And perhaps it is just about what flavour of character I like to see. I love Dean like he was in last week's episode. Strong and stoic and badass - not pouty and moody like he was in this one. Just my personal preference. I also prefer a solid Cas - not constantly second guessing himself and making mistakes (which I know is part of his character arc, but still...).

Perhaps this is an episode I will look back on and see the layers they were playing with in it. Sam and Dean are still working closely together, which is always a bonus, and there were some nice little moments between them which I really enjoyed. And I liked Sam connecting with Lily (her performance was excellent) - it was nice to see a reference to Sam being soulless.



Meta Rec- if you haven't already seen [livejournal.com profile] frozen_delight's meta Do I look like Paris Hilton? Dean as SPN's Cinematic Female Other I recommend you take a look. It's an in-depth look on the way Dean is filmed in the show. I confess some of it is a little over my head (the term "female-other" is something I haven't come across before), but there's certainly lots of pretty and some great observations.



Curiously, I have never considered Dean feminised - or perhaps I'm thinking of "feminine" (?). I wonder if that differs for everyone. If I had to pick one brother over the other as more "feminine" it would be Sam - but I actually see them both as very masculine. I feel like the way Jensen is filmed as in recognition to his stunning good looks. The camera adores him and the show takes advantage of that. :)

Date: 2017-02-07 11:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amberdreams.livejournal.com
I enjoyed most of this one but admit I'm getting very handwavy whenever they portray Dean as a complete dick. That particular kind of dickishness just doesn't fit with his character for me. And I also sat through those scenes thinking oh this is all for the Destiel fans. Does the show pander at times? Yes, I think it does. We know they do pay attention to the noise on social media, and the Destiellers are fecking noisy!

Sigh.

However, I still found I liked this one - it's redeeming features were enough to keep my attention. Though like you, I miss BAMF Cas.

Date: 2017-02-07 11:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
I feel that if I had been in a better mood (I was seriously very grumpy before I watched it) I might have been less annoyed with it. I actually think I'll give it a second go. I'll still be annoyed that Dean was so pouty, but I'll probably be better at looking past it...:)

From what I've read many did enjoy it, so I do think I just wasn't really in the mood (though angel stuff is pretty yawn inducing for me most of the time...)

xx

Date: 2017-02-07 11:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amberdreams.livejournal.com
I didn't mind the angel stuff this time for some reason - maybe because I liked how snarky whatshisface the beardy bad one was. I wasn't sure about Pirate Patch Lily, but at least her story was interesting. Overall, I reckon this wasn't a bad episode from one of the new writers. Plus - so much pretty when the boys are on screen, and that's almost enough these days. :D

Date: 2017-02-07 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madebyme-x.livejournal.com
I'm not one for angel drama either, but I actually did enjoy this! I liked being reminded that Angels are generally dicks, and that Cas used to fit in that box, so I loved being reminded of how far he's come, and seeing how he's becoming his own person.

I thought Alicia Witt as Lily was wonderful, and I found her story line interesting and it held my attention, and like you said her scenes with Sam were very enjoyable. I hope to see her again (I do wonder if her use of 'angel magic' is going to crop up in relation to those cosmic consequences'?!)

I can see where you are coming from with sulky Dean, and a 'weaker' Cas (for lack of a better world). But for me he was more thoughtful, wondering how he might feel about killing Kelly's baby, knowing that despite the consequences he feels like he made the right decision in killing Billie. I saw some character growth, I think, and I hope we see him talking and interacting more with the brothers, as a team, as I think that might perhaps bring them more together like you mentioned.

All in all, for an angel centered episode I thought it was pretty decent, and there were some precious bother moments too (Sam calling Dean out on storming into the room!!! LOVED IT!!!)

Date: 2017-02-08 11:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
Hi hun,

So happy you enjoyed it and I'm hearing that from so many that Im thinking it probably was my mood more than anything that had me at odds with it.

I was curious about the reminders of how far Cas has come - they really made a point of that. He certainly has changed and I suspect he is still in the process of changing. I'd love to see him become more confident and even become his own "person" as time goes on.

I'm determined to watch it again to pick up on things I missed. :)

Date: 2017-02-08 01:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madebyme-x.livejournal.com
I did know there was an angel centered ep coming, but I didn't know when, so I assume it's this one! So maybe it was my low expectations, and then being pleasantly surprised, that made me enjoy it more? Either way, maybe it just wasn't for you, which has certainly happened to me before.

Like you say, I'd love to see Cas become more of his own person as times goes on. Take care ♥

Date: 2017-02-07 02:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] milly-gal.livejournal.com
I think the feminisation Frozen's talking about links directly to the throw away comment he gave Bela, "Don't objectify me." And it was a gag moment but I think if you look at the way in which Dean is filmed/shown on screen; a lot fo the time wide angle shots which filter slowly up or down his body and then coming back to rest on his face...

It might be a broad generalisation but he does tend to be portrayed as the sexier one. The one which we all lust over on a regular basis.

Is that a form of feminisation simply by dint of the female of the species being subjected to this kind of treatment a lot, or more so in the media?

Of course I could be way off base because my brain isn't fabulous as Meta or at grasping high end ideas on not a lot of sleep, lol.

As for the episode, I kinda loved it. I'm not a huge fan of Dean being a pouty puss but I do kind of get where he was coming from. Never one to be outright with his grouches, he was snarking about Castiel's stupidity because he was worried, not angry. We all know Dean's not so good with all the chick flick moments ;)

I loved the moments between Sam and Dean, there were some stellar bro-moments in this episode.

I've already said how much I love Alicia Witt over at my place, and the interactions between Sam and Castiel in this episode and the last even spawned a Sassy fic from, lol.

Date: 2017-02-08 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
Hi honey!

It might be a broad generalisation but he does tend to be portrayed as the sexier one

I think this is generally true - though Sam definitely gets his fair share at times. :) They definitely film Dean differently to Sam (and maybe it would just take longer to scan up Jared's body! ;D)

And yes! I did read your reaction and was so happy to see how much you enjoyed it. Ive seen a lot of positive comments about the ep and I'm going to watch it again (not so grumpy next time :D).

<3

Date: 2017-02-09 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] milly-gal.livejournal.com
Sam gets his fair share of *tail* but I think Dean's meant to be the rugged conventional hottie ;) LOL!! Jared is hella tall, the digital film it must use up would be epic :D

I hope the re-watch gave you a little more joy :) ♥

Date: 2017-02-07 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cuddyclothes.livejournal.com
I strongly disagree with the idea that Dean is being "feminized". Most stars are fetishized (sp), esp. when they are beautiful men and women. Of course they're filmed to look gorgeous. Also, Jensen is a former model and knows exactly how to move so that he looks best on camera. The "objectify" comment is a joke, but it also plays to the fact that the stars are objectified. It's how stardom works most of the time.

Maybe it's because I've seen thousands of older films, but most male stars are presented this way. It's called "appealing to the fans". Sorry, some metas just bug me more than others. Anything that makes me think of Jensen and Jared laughing hysterically when they read it tends to drop off my radar.
Edited Date: 2017-02-07 03:43 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-02-08 12:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
I'm of the same mind - I don't think Dean is feminized. I did find the meta interest though and I love that people are still writing meta. :)

Date: 2017-02-08 08:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cuddyclothes.livejournal.com
Yes, it's good that people are still so invested.

Date: 2017-02-07 08:52 pm (UTC)
frozen_delight: (hugs)
From: [personal profile] frozen_delight
Thanks for the rec!

Date: 2017-02-08 12:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
Most welcome. :)
x

Date: 2017-02-08 02:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amypond45.livejournal.com
I liked this episode, maybe more than I expected to because it was billed as an "angel-episode" and I generally don't like those. The mother-child theme really hits home for me, maybe because I'm a mom but also because Mary's back and obviously there's a developing storyline with the Winchesters that means much more to me than the angels' story. I care about Castiel because the Winchesters care about him (and have obviously forgiven him for his past transgressions). And Lily was such a sympathetic character! How could I not relate to a woman who wanted to understand angels and recklessly put her child at risk in the process? So like Mary.

Date: 2017-02-08 12:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
Good point. And I have enjoyed the Mary storyline. I am sure there are parallels in the stories.

Perhaps because I tuned out of much of this ep I missed some key points. After so many positive comments I feel like I need to go back and rewatch - which I'm planning to do soon.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :)

Date: 2017-02-17 09:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amnisias.livejournal.com
Thank you for that link, that was indeed an interesting read. It made great observations about camera & editing techniques and visual decoding and makes a point of Dean's frequent objectification in the show and how his extrovert stoic, violent nature is contrasted with tenderness and softness very well. But I am not seeing the evidence for this feminising Dean at all. Dean's character is visually treated as historically females would have been, but his character is presented as archetypical male. I would assume this is the product of A) a show with two male leads but a huge female fanbase and B) a general shift is what is acceptable - male objectification has become a 'thing' in popular culture in the last 10 years, being used for comedic as well as dramatic effect.

Date: 2017-02-17 11:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
Agreed. That is my reaction also. Whilst I really appreciated the meta and the great observations made in the meta, I also disagree the show that the show feminises Dean. And yes, male objectification has become a "thing" and maybe the point it that it's probably relatively new and therefore it's about filling that role when there isn't another female lead. Though, even then, I'm not sure it's consciously creating Dean as the female other. Hmmm, it certainly created some food for thought.

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