It can be done...;)

[ash48]

Well paint me impressed. A damn fine and civilized d/c discussion was had with absolutely no wank or tears. There were some awesome points made and everyone played nice. *cheers*

Thank you.

I won't be posting anything further on it because I ended up having the discussion I wanted anyway. Plus everyone else made far better arguments and points than I could have done.

In conclusion? Fandom is cool and my flist are made of complete win.

In other news, my family is arriving tomorrow for a week long visit. The good news is YAY I can't wait to see them. The not so good news is I have no idea when I'm going to squeeze in watching the show and writing stuff up about it. I'm hoping to sneak away to take a watch and maybe post a insta!reaction, but I'm not sure (arghh...I can't believe the timing!).

Have fun! I'll catch ya all on the flipside. <3
xox

Comments

[geckoholic]

It's a shame that some shippers felt like the couldn't comment without it causing wank or have a backlash. I would suggest that would simply come down to how they presented their points. If they went in aggressive and confrontational then yeah I would say that would cause wank, if they, as the d/c shippers we did have comment, come in willing to discuss and present interesting arguments then I would like to think it wouldn't.
I know that's not what you mean, but let's play this out with a wink for argument's sake: why do peeps keep assuming that D/C fans are raging and confrontational? Most of the actual wank I see in the whole Wincest vs. Destiel think is actually induced by the Wincest fraction and then merely amped up by D/C shippers taking the bite, and yet some of the more peaceful and reasonable Wincest fans are afraid of us like we all have rabies. Just today, there's been wank over a drawing some Wincesters found offensive that followed that exact pattern, there's been several posts I ran into on tumblr going "haha, after that barn scene, who's ship wins now, suck it D/C'ers" and IMO that dynamic is part of what makes this whole ship war so toxic. How can there be a right or wrong about fanon ships? Why does there have to be? I don't get it.

What kept me, personally, from commenting were comments like this one ("the thought of Destiel makes me sick to my stomach"). As well as your intentions might have been, I wouldn't trust someone who puts that sort of opinion out there to engage in a calm, reasonable conversation with me. :/


And I won't accept that they are any "less" a D/C shipper than someone on Tumblr or any where else because they chose to present their points - I would like to think they felt comfortable enough to feel safe there.
I'd never say that! They're probably just lucky enough that they didn't run into that much bullshit yet, based solely on what they ship, and I'm happy for them. Alas, I've been kicked in the stomach once too often to still be that optimistic about ship- or character-related fannish discussions.


About the difference between ~shipping something and thinking it will become canon... For me, shipping means that I WANT something happen, but I don't think there's much of a chance that TPTB will actually go there with a same-sex ship. I agree that they don't have the balls, and I'm rather positive that JA'd draw lines that prevent going through with it, or just with Dean going at it with any other guy. Not bashing, I just don't think he'd go along with it, which, let's be real, about half the guys in our generation wouldn't. Lastly TPTB are walking the line of trying to pander to both the D/C fandom as well as the brofans, and I don't think they'd tip over that, uh, I'm hesitant to call it balance. XD Which, IMO, is actually something that hurts the show more than does it good, but that's a topic for another day. ;)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi,

Thanks for this and I have to say I agree with all of it.

I don't know why D/C shippers are considered confrontational. It's certainly not what I meant when I said it would depend on how the comment was made. That goes for anyone commenting and responding. For me it was all about the issue be controversial, not the D/C shippers. It is a huge shame that it has caused such wank and nastiness. I can't disagree that it's spurred on by the wincest shippers. In all honesty I hardly see the confrontation between the D/C shippers and the Wincest ones because I am not involved in it. I have only recently become more active on Tumblr and now I am beginning to see it. It saddens me greatly and makes absolutely no sense to me.

That comment was confrontational and a red flag went up when I saw it. I did my best not to incite any wank and I think it was mostly ignored. I think staying away from a comment like that is the best course of action. Putting a separate case up, as others did, was a good way of jumping into the discussion though.

I'd never say that!

Oh no no, I wasn't suggesting you were. I was being my own devil's advocate. In my mind I was thinking that because this isn't a Tumblr discussion it's some how "less". I'm not sure where I got that idea - maybe the Tumblr v Lj thing.

And your points for why it won't happen are pretty much my own.I just can't see the CW or Jensen agreeing to it. And one of my personal points would be ...why? I would want to know what that would do for the story lines. I don't actually watch this show for the romance. If this show became about that relationship I would wonder what I had just tuned into (much the way I did when I was watching Sam/Amelia - and hence my "soapernatural vid). I would celebrate their decision to explore that side of Dean's character, but I really only what "saving people, hunting things" to be what I tune into. Now Cas being part of their family is something that I warm to, and family issues and dynamics is definitely part of the story I enjoy.

Which, IMO, is actually something that hurts the show more than does it good, but that's a topic for another day.

I agree. And yes indeed, that is a topic for another day. ;D

[geckoholic]

Ack, LJ wasn't letting me comment, then rl was being demanding... Sorry for not getting back to you on this. /o\

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey! It's cool hun. I really enjoyed the discussion. It was great to get another perspective. <333

(and me to about RL.../o\)
xx