ep 7.17 reaction and all that...

[ash48]

My feeling are ALL OVER THE PLACE with this episode. Seriously. What do I do with these...?! (sorry for such a rambly review...)

First, I just have to....SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MY HURT!SAM GIRL WAS IN FRIGGIN' HEAVEN! HOLY HELL!!! IT WAS ALL THERE! Sam AT THE END OF HIS TETHER! Sam HIT by a car! Sam in HOSPITAL, Sam cut up with broken ribs! RESTRAINED!! (did I mention heaven?!) SHOCK THERAPY!! Holy.... *happy place*

HOWEVER... as much as I like a bit of Sam!whump (and Dean... I don't play favourites when it comes to whumping! *g*) it also made me shed a little tear. I really, really felt his pain and torment and I kept muttering...oh Sammy... :((( This is a man who rates broken ribs as a 3. High tolerance... no kidding! I was on the edge of my seat through all those hospital scenes.

All righty roo. Time to get serious and to try and make sense of all those damn FEELINGS...

I will definitely need to watch this episode again because overall it felt a bit...um... messy. I loved some of it and I enjoyed watching it but it felt kinda uneven and I'm not entirely sure why. Maybe because there was such a lot GOING ON - lot's of surprises (I knew Cas was back but I didn't know about Meg or what was going to happen to Sam). It felt like they were trying to cram SO MUCH into one episode- the disintegration of Sam's mind and body, the return and subsequent redemption of Cas and the return of Meg. I loved all those things but, as a viewer, I felt like I was being pulled all over the place - edge of my seat worry for Sam, interest in Dean's response to Cas returning, fascination with Cas' back story and trying to figure out what the hell Meg was saying! (I will be having to check out the transcript for a lot of her dialogue (eyes zebra363)). On top of all that there there was also a hunt! Oh man.... /o\

Some thinky dissecting:

1. Sam and Lucifer:

I felt like all the hospital scenes held together pretty well. Mark Pellegrino's performance as Lucifer was (as always) both amusing and unsettling. I didn't think his lines were as witty as they had been in past episodes but his forms of torture were inventive. The megaphone was particularly amusing (hee...yeah...as a teacher I'm familiar with that one!). And firecrackers!... that'll keep you awake for sure. And his singing...

I loved that even though Sam was suffering his own mental torture he was able to put that aside to help someone else in need. It's very Sam. I also LOVE the idea that mental patients could possibly be suffering from very "real" supernatural issues. It makes sense and I loved this was explored. I probably would like to have seen a really mentally tortured girl but I get that this is television and they have to be...um...very pretty.

I STILL DON'T GET HOW LUCIFER WORKS! If he was "transferred" to Cas then surely that means he's somehow "real". Or was it just a transfer of a memory? Cas took Sam's memory of the cage and Lucifer. If so then the Lucifer Cas sees can only be as Sam "remembers" him. Is Sam's brain still scrambled? Is Cas' brain now scrambled? Or is Lucifer actually, really around. AM I OVER THINKING THIS TOO MUCH!!?! (probably...) Do I even need an answer to this? Maybe it doesn't matter how Lucifer works. It's just that he's there. Or something...

2. Meg

I have to admit I think this is where I had the most problems. I LOVE Meg. I've always loved her ambiguity. If we have corrupt angels then why not have a potentially "good" demon? But. IDK. It's not just that she looked so different (though I did find that rather distracting) but her mumbling was hard to make out. She also seemed less re-assured.(I'm not sure if this was the actress or the character) Of course, that might have been the WHOLE POINT! In that case....ok. I was sold. Meg is not so confident when she hasn't got the backing of other demons. Ack... I need to re-watch. I'm torn. But I will confess I didn't enjoy her as much I have done in the past. (*sniff*)

3. Castiel

I get nervous talking about Cas because I know how much passion surrounds this character. I don't have that level of passion, but neither do I dislike him. In fact, I've always enjoyed seeing Cas and tonight was no different. I really REALLY loved that we had a born again Cas. I was keen to see how they were going to introduce him back into the show and...ok... it was a little predictable, but I was SOLD and totally bought that he crawled out of the lake to be discovered by a women passing by..(what? Maybe she WAS sent by God...in this 'verse that makes some sense...).

There was a lovely sense of "clean" about him and I thought Misha really embodied that innocence. I also loved his conflict when he realised who he really was and what he had done. But... WOW... what a lot to take in. In an amazingly short time we found out that: Cas survived, he MARRIED, he lost his memory, he was a man called Emmanuel, he had powers to heal, he was discover by Dean, he found he was Dean's friend, he found out he hurt Dean by hurting Sam, he wanted to make amends, he MADE amends and now sees his brother. HOLY HELL! I'm not sure whether to admire the writers for managing to get so much in or slap them about the head for being so ambitious. (possibly the latter...)

4. Dean

Arghh.... I feel that out of all the characters in that ep he was the most underwritten. Idk. Again it comes down to there being SO MUCH going on. Not only did he have a brother DYING in a mental hospital he also had to confront Cas returning (and ALLTHE FEELINGS associated with that - disbelief, relief, bitterness, memories etc.) AND deal with seeing Meg after all this time. He was pulled all over the place with emotions and maybe that's why I felt I was too. I was following Dean's journey during the episode (though captivated by Sam's) and feeling torn in the process. Like Dean must have. He was bombarded by SO MUCH!

It's either extremely clever story telling or rather messy story telling. I haven't figure that one out yet.

5. Where we are now:

So. Cas came, he discovered stuff, he redeemed himself and he now has his brother in his head and is left behind in a mental hospital. I'm not entirely sure what to do with all that. I like the mirror (any parallels in an ep excites me) between the girl and her brother in her head and now Cas with his brother in his head. I like that he has redeemed himself by fixing Sam and essentially doing what Sam did to save the world (locking himself in with Lucifer) but... idk, that just seems so quick. Would Dean and Sam be happy leaving him behind like that? I suppose they've left their half brother in the cage so maybe they are actually ok with that.

I JUST DON'T KNOW!! They set our boys up to CARE about family and then have them drive away from them. (And I really did need Dean to at least TOUCH SAM!! Come on Show! They are brothers!! Dean was concerned, sure, but A LITTLE BIT OF COMFORT WOULDN'T GO ASTRAY!! A squeeze on the shoulder at least!)

(Side note: I get that having Cas around is a "problem." If he's so powerful then he'd be able to solve all their problems and we wouldn't have a show. Having an angel around is problematic for that reason. I'm not sure if Show (STILL!!!) knows what to do with him. I think because he has been so popular they keep him (which I'm cool with) but they really have to decide what to do with him...)

I keep saying "I don't know" because I really don't after this one. I really enjoyed watching it but as I pondered it I was left rather empty. It solved Sam's hallucinations (and yeah...when I knew Cas was returning I also knew he'd be the one to heal Sam...*sigh* ::koff:: cop out...) which I think is good. A bit like Dean's angst...it can't go on for a whole season.

So yeah. It felt messy and crowded. Dean's loyalties were divided and conflicted. Cas seemed to re-appear more as a "tool" to save Sam and Meg...um...not sure why Meg was around really. Though i did like the idea of a human, and angel and a demon working together. I also liked the mirror of Sam saying he could't "fight" because he was tired the same was Dean was when he wanted to say yes to Michael. It was also reminiscent of Faith. Just not as well written me thinks.

THOUGHTS!?! Am I being too harsh?! I've been loving season 7. I didn't dislike this ep as such, I just feel like they crammed in far too much.

Comments

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh...not his actual wife? Ok...I can buy that. That would make more sense. :)

I was just happy that Dean went to Sam immediately when Sam starting gasping

OMG yes!... and also, I loved it when Sam was about to get shock therapy and says..."My brother..." it was like he was asking for him. Wanting Dean to make sense of it all. Or wanting then to check that this was ok with him.... (that's how I saw it anyway...*g*).



xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Thanks hun. :) It was a strange one because I loved watching it but afterwards felt a bit confused. Sam's hallucination were due to be resolved and even though I was a bit disappointed it was remedied with a touch to the head I suppose it made sense - in that it allowed Cas redemption. (though I have NO idea how that actually works. I might be *hand waving* that one).

I haven't minded Meg up until now...maybe because she's had less to say in the past. Also her presence just didn't make a lot of sense.

xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi.

I really liked the ep also. In that I really enjoyed watching it and I loved that we got some resolution to Sam's hallucinations. I was jumping up and down when Cas said he couldn't fix him. I thought...yay! no cop out and yet, he did end up fixing him. Sam can function again. We don't know yet what it will all mean for Sam but it looks like he will function fine now that Lu is no longer haunting him.

I'm curious to see how Lucifer will effect Cas because surely Cas can do all sorts of things to deal with Lu in his brain. He doesn't need sleep so that kind of torture won't be on offering. Maybe Lu will bore him to death.

I haven't mined Rachel Miner's Meg - though I MUCH preferred Nikki' - I think because we haven't seen that much of her. Her voice has always been rather irritating. Thanks for the info on the steroids. That makes sense. I thought maybe she had put on weight but it didn't look like natural weight. Swollen describes it for sure.

I'm hopeful that the premise is that Dean has been holding himself together up to this point for Sam--he COULD NOT fall apart while Sam was so shaky

Yeah... I like this idea. I've wondered way he didn't reach out to Sam but maybe a touch would have been his last straw. In hindsight there were some clues that Dean was barely holding it together. I loved that he ran to Sam once the hallucinations had been transferred.

but it has me looking forward to the rest of the season in a new way

That's a good way of looking at it. I thought that at the end. Sam and Dean are now on a level playing field. Dean is stronger and Sam is "better". I think they will need all their strength for whatevers coming (I hope! I have high hopes for the future eps..*g*)

xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It's great to hear what a Cas fan links. I've never minded Cas but his story arc is so messy. But I think it's also really hard. He's an angel after all. The problem with where they have left him is it negates what he actually is. As an angel he could just zap to another place - or time. He can do amazing things and yet he's left sitting there, seemingly powerless. Maybe having Cas in his brain is more damaging than I initially thought it was.

He's certainly redeemed himself - in terms of fixing Sam. He still has the Leviathan issue to deal with and I have to say I am concerned he's going to be able to suddenly solve that whole issue as well. I'm keen to see where they take that.

all I truly felt was given adequate strength was Sam's suffering.

Yeah. I agree. And I did love all that. Those scenes were much tighter than the rest. which is a major shame. I think they could have done without the Meg story line and given more time to Dean and Sam. Even to Dean, Sam and Cas. There was enough in just that to carry the episode.

Aaannnnwaaayyy...these episodes are hard. It might only be in hindsight that we see how it all fits in.

xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It was a weird ep in that I've heard many say they loved watching it but was then left feeling empty, or confused. I was surprised that this was Sera's script. Usually I find her episode fairly good. It makes me wonder if this episode is a big set up for things to come (which I'm sure it is. So it might fit better in hindsight).

Thanks so much for the link to the meta. That's exactly what I have been thinking. In a review a while back I mused that Lucifer was some how real rather than a hallucination. I didn't consider a link to the cage as a possibility though. That's cool.

I did wonder why Lucifer would want Sam dead? Maybe if Sam died he'd be released along with Sam's soul? Hmmmm....

I only scanned that meta. I shall go back and read further and read the comments.

Thanks so much for that.
<33

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It might just be that extra 10 minutes that left me feeling like I needed more.. or something.

I too liked the pacing. In fact I really liked the ep for the most part. If they had perhaps kept Meg and the demons out of the picture I would have been less distracted. I love Meg and her story arc, so I felt like she was given a disservice in this one. (But maybe they had to set something up for future episodes).

JARED WAS AWESOME! I was so convinced by his torment. I actually had a little tear at one point. He has suffered SO much. It just doesn't seem far. And still he manages to carry on. I ADORE him so much...<333

Thanks hun.

AND HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!\o/

[ancastar.livejournal.com]

Thanks, hon!!! :-D

[counteragent.livejournal.com]

I was so happy with the Sam stuff that I didn't really mind that the rest was kind of WTF, hee.

I was so happy that he got a storyline in the ep, when they could have easily JUST made this about Cas's return and Dean's reaction.

[bythedamned.livejournal.com]

argh, took me two days to comment because, yeah! I just don't know.

I agree that there was too much meg (and yes, her differences were *distracting*) but also maybe too much Cas. And not enough. actually, I think I agree with you on everything. this needed to be two eps, because it was too much to cram into one story line, and we needed the emotional time to really get used to Cas being back. And a lot of us wanted to revel in the mentally!unstable!Sam h/c with Dean being the awesome big brother we know he can be. He said to Cas that he used to just handle whatever came his way, and he can't anymore, but it seemed the opposite. Sam's brain is melting in a locked psych ward, he's going to die because he saved the world, and Dean's basically telling him to have some balls about it. and yeah, what's with the not touching! I can only hope they're saving up for some EPIC bro-love h/c, and that's why they're not indulging now. much like Jared's performance seemed subdued before he showed up as Lucifer in the End - to make the contrast that much clearer.

And maybe it's cuz I'm not a huge Cas fan, but I felt like this ep didn't deliver. I know his return was a big deal (all the fanart I track is suddenly 100% Destiel over the course of 2 days) but I'm way more invested in how he affects Dean, and they showed almost none of that. Dean was more shocked-in-the-moment reactionary than anything else. we haven't seen any of these events really resonate with him. They brought Cas back as Emmanuel, but it seems like they should have just named him Plot Device and gone for full transparency.

also, Emmanuel's devout wife? probably still wondering where he is. I totally believe they were married, they held hands when Dean was talking to them. So, way to not clean up your collateral damage, guys. Though I guess they can't risk revealing his position to anyone (even though it's too late, koff, why not a verbal bitchslap reminding meg that they'll come for her if she crosses them?)

::grumblegrumblesigh:: okay. now, lots of fanfic where the boys take a moment to care that lucifer's jumped ship, and that dean has his real brother back.

on the plus side, traumatic-hallucinations!Sam, jumping at every sound even while there's someone else in the room - total gold. love it. wish he'd done more of that with Dean around so he could truly freaking appreciate!

[colls]

I've been contemplating this ep for the past day and just can't come to a decision if I liked it or not. Well, I liked it because it's SPN (*grins*) but I mean whether it was a strong ep or not.

I feel like a minority in that I was kind of satisfied with the end of Castiel's story. I felt he went off the reservation and realized it before he died. I didn't really think he needed a redemption-story.

Meg's involvement and Cas left in the hospital with his brother banging around in his head leaves me to feel like we're going to return to the angels/demons storyline. I guess that's the part that kinda leaves me a little cold. I feel we've already been over that territory and why do it again?

And I agree with you re: the pacing of the episode. It was fine until the last few scenes. One minute Sam is strapped to a bed having electro-shock therapy and also being zapped by an angel AND he hasn't slept in a week. Not 5 seconds later he's dressed and walking out with Dean. What the actual....? Dude needs to take a nap at least.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Urgh to be honest it really disappointed me that when Castiel brings Sam back the focus immediately switches to Castiel experiencing his halluncinations, so we didn't get any kind of brotherly moment there at all :/ That scene should have played as epic times, even if they couldn't manage a hug, but instead the possibilities were just thrown away. I don't think this episode was bad exactly, but I admit I am really disappointed after how much I had build my expectations up. I so loved 702 making it all about Dean needing to talk Sam down from his craziness, this episode throwing Castiel into the mix just shortchanged all of the characters IMO

The final ending with Cas felt so abrupt too, it would have added a lot more pathos if we had seen Sam and Dean looking in on him and asking if there's nothing else that can be done, instead of just throwing that in there as some quick exposition...

[sothcweden.livejournal.com]

I agree that the ep seemed crowded. I would have preferred not to have Meg in this ep, honestly. I agree that she seemed different here, but she didn't really have anything to do other than knife that one demon, so I don't understand why the writers brought her in during this ep rather than another where she might have been part of the actual plot.

I was simultaneously "awwwing" at Cas taking Sam's pain (and how cool was the effect of hellfire in his eyes?) and rolling my eyes because it seemed like too easy a fix to bring Cas back quickly so he can fix Sam and then have him go crazy so he'll have to be sidelined immediately.

I think I'm overthinking things too! But yay for the CW letting me stream the ep tonight rather than not allowing it until Tuesday, which is when it's usually been available on the site this season.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hee! Yes... omg... my hurt!Sammy gal was in heaven. \0/ (I would have been in an even better heaven if we'd have some Dean comfort thrown in but I suppose I can't be greedy...)

Jared TOTALLY rocked it! His performance was brilliant. He's come so far as an actor and all in the course of this show.

And I want to know the answer to all those questions as well!! I sincerely hope they've thought all this through. SO much makes no sense. I've always felt that Lucifer is more than just an hallucination. That somehow a part of Lucifer actually embedded himself in Sam's brain (or soul!). If he's more than just a construct of Sam's mind then it would make more sense that he could be transferred to Cas. BUT WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?!

The other part that bugs me is that they spent the whole season breaking these boys down by taking everything.

Good point. Maybe that's why I'm feeling a little let down. Cas appears (out of now where) to save the day which almost makes a mockery of where they've been heading all season. The end of the ep suggested they were back on their own again, but for how long? The notion that Cas would remain in a mental institution is rather ludicrous. He could transport himself anywhere. And I find it hard to believe he would suffer the same way Sam did with Lucifer in his brain... HE'S AN ANGEL! He doesn't need sleep....Does he even have a brain like a human?? Ack! I just don't know.

Having an angel that can fix everything is problematic for the show I reckon. I mean, he could solve everything. Which makes me worry for a Leviathan quick fix. I HOPE NOT! I want them to be tough (really tough) to get rid of.

I have been loving this season so much. Largely, I think, because it's been about the boys. The next episode will be crucial in terms of understanding where they plan to go from here.

I HOPE THEY KNOW!.. (and that it's great....)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah... you make some great points.

I hesitated saying that I was bored by the Meg, Cas and Dean scenes...but really? *nods* I was so on the edge of my seat with the hospital scenes it really powered me through the whole episode but as I re-watched I found myself fast forwarding through those other scenes because I just wasn't feeling them.

I have to say, I really feel for Dean in all of this (and maybe Jensen...) He had to feel SO many things in this ep...worry for Sam, surprise (and all those other emotions!) in seeing Cas and then deal with seeing Meg. Jensen must have read the script and thought...what the fuck...? How does Dean deal with all this? Do I just have a permanent "What the hell... ?" look on my face...

I agree it would have been more interesting to have just concentrated on the human emotions. Dean had that desperation, but it was lost as soon as Cas appeared. It would have been interesting for this episode to explore just how alone they really were. Sam stuck and a hospital and Dean with no where to turn. I know they needed a solution, but it all just happened so fast. I keep hearing this should have been 2 episodes... I tend to agree.

Dammit. There are moments like these I wish I wasn't so damn invested in this show. This is the kind of turmoil I felt during S6..... I was enjoying not feeling it during S7 (which is why I have been enjoying this season so much...)

I hope the next ep holds some answers!

<3333333

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I think Cas took the torture from within Sam's soul and put it on himself.

Oh wow... I love that idea. I struggle with thinking that Cas would suffer in the same way that Sam would have done, but maybe the weight of Sam's suffering is now weighing on Cas in a way that only an angel could feel.... Hmmmm.... I might just be able to see that in a different light.

I have mixed feelings about Cas' return and I think I will only truly know how I feel when I see how they are going to tell his story. I just don't know - still! Even after re-watching it....!!

I like your reasoning about why there was distance between the brothers. Sam was seeing all sorts of things. He might not even trusted that he was actually seeing Dean.... *sniff*

Hee...Here's to winning a million!

(thanks for your positive take on the ep. I've struggled with this one...)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

YES!! That's certainly one way of looking at it. I'm very glad for that also...

It was an awesome ep for Sam.
xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'm starting at the end of your comment but..

wish he'd done more of that with Dean around so he could truly freaking appreciate

Yes! I felt that Dean never really understood how bad it actually was for Sam. Even in the last episode he was all..."drive back to the motel.." while we are yelling..."don't say that! He almost got hit by a truck..."

Even though there were some tender moments in the hospital between them (well...one) most of it was either Dean telling Sam to get angry or Sam telling Dean that he was "told this was going to happen". I guess that's a real brother thing and how they deal with an awful situation.

The wife loose end completely baffles me. Surely she is going to be looking for him.

It might have been more interesting if in this episode Cas remained as Emmanuel (he could have still healed Sam) and waited for another ep for him to learn the truth. IDK

Dean was more shocked-in-the-moment reactionary than anything else

Yeah. I think this is why I felt he was underwritten. He was only reactionary and with SO many shocks he had little room to do much else. Jensen seemed quite tired in the ep and I'm not sure if it was him or Dean. I know Dean would be well and truly over all this so it could have been they way Jensen was playing Dean.

I hope the next episode allows them to regroup a bit. I know they can't actually take a holiday...but man, I'd love to see that.

We'll see. I just hope they have good plans leading up to the finale.
<3

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking that Cas doesn't need sleep, so while he is stuck with Lucifer in his head it doesn't endanger his life but he will just sit there, well, forever. A bit like a pat situation, he will not get worse, it will just stay like that. Sam was on the brink of dying because of the sleep deprivation and time was of the essence to save him.

And I've been thinking that maybe there is more to it that Meg is looking after him now (if you can call it that. lol). I mean that it possibly ties into the coming story line rather than just giving the fans the feeling Cas is looked after in some way and not in the hands of humans only.

I think I very much enjoyed the intensity of this episode. Sam's struggle (so well played), Dean being mostly so overwhelmed that he was a bit like under shock, keeping emotions at bay. (again: played so well :D )and then "clean Cas" who reminded me so much of Jimmy, his still strange choice of words, missing humour (god, the moment he laughed after Meg explained Dean's word were a joke. Cracked me up.) and then his memory returning while smiting the demons.
I totally was dwelling in that and didn't much care for the issues in this ep that admittedly do exist that you and others pointed out. I guess I was just enjoying the ride. ;D

You're welcome to my positive take on the ep. I was only thinking today how this show is still going so strong. I really expected things to become boring or old in some way after season 5. But the way things are going now makes me feel like they could be still shooting eps with Jared and Jensen being Granddads. Maybe Padababy will be the next onscreen hunter generation. LOL :D

x♥x

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

Oh and I forgot to mention: I adored Sam helping this girl while he wasn't even able to think straight, due to the not sleeping and Lucie driving him closer to insanity every minute. A true hunter at heart, saving someone else with his nearly last breath!♥ Dean can be proud of him. :D

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I feel we've already been over that territory and why do it again?

Yeah. I hope they can bring something new to the table if they are going down this route again. I mean, I suppose it makes sense that angels and demons are still around. They can't just disappear. I think they've done a pretty good effort keeping them out of the story line so far this season.

With Cas it just seemed so quick. To have lost his memory, found it and redeemed himself all in one episode. But maybe they have greater plans for him so they needed to squeeze it all in.

It did like Cas' concern for Sam. He apologised 3 times and I he really meant it.

Not 5 seconds later he's dressed and walking out with Dean.

Exactly! It makes little sense that he could walk out like that. Especially as he would be dead tired. Maybe he slept while all the paper work was being done? :)

xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

so we didn't get any kind of brotherly moment there at all :/

Completely missed not having a brotherly moment at the end. I mean, I did love Dean rushing to Sam as he was coming back. That was nice. But that whole ending was rushed and all the characters needed a little more time.

So keen to see where they pick up next time.

xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Meg presence left me cold I have to say. She usually has a lot more menace then that. Maybe she didn't really know what she was doing there either. My only thought is they are setting her up for something in the future. Maybe something to do with her and Cas...

I did like that Cas cared so much about what he had done to Sam. As least Cas to see first hand what Sam had been experiencing. More than I think Dean ever really understood (mainly because he didn't seem to see a lot of it).

and YAY for being able to watch it earlier. That's great. I would hate to have to wait to watch an ep. :))

xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I LOVED that!! Sam was just SO AWESOME through it all. He really does put others before himself. I think he truly resigned himself to being like this forever.

<333

[boggiecat.livejournal.com]

Hi ash

I so love your posts and your 'thinkyness'.

Anyway, I've not read other folks responses yet so maybe this will be repetitive.

Lucifer - I think that Sam's wall fell down and that meant that he now remembers Hell, and what happened to him in Hell - his mind is doing all sort of strange things to him. I think Lucifer isn't real, he's just Sam's memory - so the memory gets transferred to Cas at the end, not the 'real' Lucifer

I think, now, Sam is Okay but Cas is well and truly pooped as he has the 'memory of Hell' in his head now.

Lucifer isn't just a normal memory, I don't think, he's kinda of what Sam's mind is doing to make him sort of 'real' and finding ways to torture him now.

I can't remember now but it was Lucifer, in Sam's body, along with Michael in Adam's body, who fell into the pit. SO, when Crowley brought back Sam, minus his soul, he must have left Lucifer in there, with Michael in Adam's body.

Wow, isnt it complicated. IS that how you recall it Ash?

Unlike yourself, I actually really enjoyed Meg - although I was rather put off with how she looked. Her face seemed to be quite kinda 'bloated' in that first shot of her, but then she looked more her old self when the camera wasn't at such an unflattering angle. Also unlike yourself, I really liked her voice and didn't, personally, struggle to understand her. I did find myself thinking 'she has a really nice voice', which I don't often think to be honest... I also didn't really get that she was less self assured than before - it came over to me that she was just a demon on her own, using the boys for her own ends with a plan to get back at Crowley somehow and having to play Dean to do that, so she was manipulative, but not lacking in self assuredness (If that is a real word!)

I loved that Cas came back too and I totally agree that a hell (!) of a lot happened to him in such a short time. I suppose the writers can get around how much he had to take on board in such a short time as he is an Angel after all and so must be highly adaptable... But WOW, did he have to adapt. Personally I would have liked for them to have spread the Cas coming back story over maybe three episodes.

I get what you mean about Dean being pulled all over the place and, you know what really worries me...? I have no idea if the show is going to go into an eighth season. Do you? I just feel really worried that they are having to tie ends up fast, in case they don't get another season, and couldn't afford the time to spend on Cas coming back like he did as they have to resolve everything before the end of the season. DREAD DREAD DREAD. I feel SICK just thinking about it but I believe they have to write the show so that it can just end if they don't get the go ahead for another season, AND in a way that it can carry on if they do.

SO I do wonder if they are trying to tie the ends up and, as Cas is going to be in another two eps, maybe he will somehow get out of the hospital, and be restored to 'angelness', do one show on a hunt with the boys (old style) and then go up to heaven to be the new 'god', with old god's permission (assuming that's why the real God enabled Cas' wife to find him and help him back to health when he walked out of the lake maybe...?). Then, (here's my head working overtime), the whole show can end with the Boys driving off in the Impala (WHERE THE HELL IS THE IMPALA BY THE WAY?

ON the other hand, I did really, like really really, love this ep so I wonder if it is clever storytelling as I was squeeing my head off during this ep, like I've not done for some time... I mean, I was literally, squeeing, out loud, in a proper 'squee-tone', high pitched and girly and all toe-curling, edge of the seat, jumping in the air squeeing. Maybe I'm a bit dim and just don't think about it as much or something..

I think the idea with leaving Cas there was really their only option. I think it was about how we need neither Crowley nor DIck to know that Cas is around as either of them could find him, maybe mend him, and maybe corrupt him somehow so they can use him for their own ends ... maybe ..?

I'm interested in your thoughts, as always - you have such interesting thoughts!

[boggiecat.livejournal.com]

Oh, forgot to say, I totally, absolutely agree that we needed some touchy feely stuff - I mean, Dean had just got his Sammy back,, like really truly back, after months of worrying about him and his wall collapsing and what was going to happen - I think someone needs to write a fic, quick, that fills in the gap and shows us how Dean and Sam REALLY showed their brotherly love with Sammy all fine and mended!