8.10 review / reaction

[ash48]

The Good

* I think lowering my expectations for this episode actually helped me enjoy this episode much more than I would have done if I'd gone in excited. I knew we were in for more Cas, angels and demons, and Amelia giving Sam an ultimatum - so I was at least prepared.

* I liked that Sam mentioned Jess and how low it was that Dean used that ploy to lure Sam away in the last ep. Not because it was particularly inspired or anything, it was just great to know that the writers had not forgotten that Sam once did have a life with Jess and so many of the women in Sam's life had died and he thinks about that.

* I did like that Sam and Dean actually communicated in the beginning. (And we got an actual scene with the two of them in it so that was nice).

* It feels like we are at the end of the "past year" story arcs which means they can hopefully move on from here.

* There was a feeling of conclusion. I've been needing that. I've needed to know where they've been heading with all this (no where it seems but at least I know that now).

* I didn't actually mind Cas too much. I know...surprising for me, but there were moments I cared more about him then anyone one else on the screen so that's something. There were glimpses of Team Free Will (remember that awesome little idea a few seasons ago?), but then poor Cas was forced to be bad. Again. So...*shrugs* Idk. Also...I really like it when Cas connects with Sam and he did that a little bit - so yay!

* I REALLY liked the camera work when Sam and Dean were moving through the building looking for the sigils.

* Sam and Dean working together (thank you show!)

* Benny. I felt for Benny. (only it's setting him up for turning "bad" and it will be Dean's fault and Dean will have to kill him and then we'll have Dean angst and it will be hollow because we've seen it all before. Except better *sigh*).

* I am glad the boys are back together. As much as the end was obviously going to happen I'm glad it did. It was an incredibly sad ending and I did really feel for my two favourite characters. It was also sad that there was a sense that they are together because there isn't an alternative. They are trapped in these lives. Together.

The Bad (you know...skip all this crankiness. I only rant like this because I love my show so much. Except when I don't :((( )

* When did show become so joyless? I know we've had a lot of angst and it's not a "happy" show but usually there is at least some urgency and then some sort of satisfaction at the end. Even with the brothers coming together at the end there was no sense of celebration or even contentment. It just was. And it made me incredibly sad. Not just for the characters but for my show.

* This is the episode that cemented the fact that the Sam and Amelia story line meant nothing. It served absolutely no purpose other than to add a soap opera style story line. I would even say that soaps do it better because at least we care about the characters and their dilemmas. We knew the moment the season started that Sam leaves Amelia. We knew as soon she gives him that ridiculous ultimatum in that episode that he would go back to Dean. There was absolutely NO sense of urgency or investment.

I could wax lyrical about how sad it is for Sam that he can't have a normal life with a woman he so dearly loves (::koff::) but fuck that. In fact, I'm not even going to start on Sam and Amelia. I am beyond incensed by that empty, pointless story line - expect to say that what a damn SHAME they didn't make that into something amazing. It could have been. There was potential. But poor dialogue, poor character development and yes, poor acting (by both actors!) makes me want to forget that that ever even happened. Sorry what? Sam ignored the fact that his brother was missing, he hit a dog, fell in love with a women who he didn't seem remotely attracted to, professed his undying love for her and then ran away from it all? Um...no. I don't remember that happening. *lalalala*

* Angel torture that went on forever. :((

* Powerless and ineffectual Crowley

* Some Dean one-liners that fell flat. (Your mother is hot? Seriously Dean? And him hiding porn from Cas? what the...)

* Since when are Sam and Dean stronger than demons? I mean, why didn't the demons just wave their hands (like they used to) and pin them against a wall? Maybe even snap their necks? Are Sam and Dean immune to their powers somehow? A demon punch up is just ridiculous. (stop being lazy show!!!)

* That zoom in of Crowley might just be the cheesiest zoom in the history of the show. It was a shocker. Shots like that make the show look as bad as it actually seems to be becoming. :(((

* Now there's an Angel Tablet. OH MY GOD NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Not an ANGEL TABLET!!! WHAT WILL HAPPEN NOW?!?!?! I wish I cared...

* What's Sam and Dean's investment in all this? Why do they care? I feel like they need to be personally invested in order for me to care about what's happening in the story. They're not, so I struggle to care.

RIGHT! I WILL STOP NOW! It's becoming a moan fest!!! I AM SORRY! That left me feeling sad and flat. I didn't mind watching it. I wasn't as bored as I have been with some eps so THAT'S A PLUS!!! \o/

The not so ugly:

Both boys continue to look amazing. Sam's hair = \o/ Dean's face = \o/ (shallow yes but at this point in the season there has GOT to be something that is keeps me tuning in, because I can tell you the story certainly isn't). Hee...and I would say Sam's gorgeous bod but I was too distracted that whole scene to fully appreciate it. I will later I'm sure.

The GOOD NEWS iS THEY CAN MOVE ON NOW!! We can get some (hopefully!!!) decent MoTW stories now. The boys are back together (not entirely happily but at least they are back) so they can start being a team again. Maybe they can start moving toward actually wanting to be together because they like each other's company and because they enjoying Saving People Hunting Things. Maybe even because they WANT to watch each other's backs. Unfortunately the lack of trust between them still exists so no doubt that will raise its ugly head again sometime in the future. Maybe next time they will actually sort that out.

I am sure I will find more positives with that ep once I've read some reactions and I've sat on it for a while. I still care. I just want the writers and the producers to care as much.

Comments

[missyjack.livejournal.com]

I just want the writers and the producers to care as much.

I think you can dislike where the show is going,or think the writers etc are doing a bad job. But i don't know how you can suggest the people who work on this show don't care about it. Do you really think they turn up to work each day and think "hey lets do a half arsed job"?

[galathea-snb.livejournal.com]

I haven't even seen the episode yet, and I am already depressed. Fans are leaving the show left and right in my corner of fandom - Sam/Dean fans, Castiel fans and SamnDean fans alike are all frustrated with the direction the show has taken in S8. Shallow, non-sensical characterisation for the leads, a stale mytharc, no interesting recurring characters, it all amounts to no emotional investment on my part at all. I even start to resent the characters I see onscreen, and I never thought that would happen with Supernatural. :(

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

First let me say that your comment about the show being joyless is right on the money. I also have to note that I hope beyond hope that since the Amelia story wasn't handled well that it is in fact pointless and over, because considering the soap opera nature of it, I'm dreading a pregnant Amelia reappearing.

All the characters, with the exception of Cas have been off. I don't care much for Cas, but at least I recognize him. I'm sure you are right about Benny coming back and Dean having to kill him and then we get to go through another bout of emo-Dean and how he shouldn't have left him alone and it's all Sam's fault for asking him to abandon Benny. This season has been a real disappointment to me.

[maenad.livejournal.com]

I've already had my little rant so I won't clog up your journal by repeating it - but yeah. I'm getting tired of the recycled storylines and incoherent motivation. I always loved that I could take everybody's side. Sam, Dean, monsters, demons - even angels. I could at least see why they were doing the things they were.

At this point ... well, I do kind of want to buy Benny coffee, since Dean randomly abandoned him. But I can also guess where that story is going, so there's not even any point in taking his side.

But if that's the end of the arc, well, at least maybe we'll be allowed some fun stuff in the future. Personally, I want new monsters.

[redteekal.livejournal.com]

I'm curious about what's going on in heaven, Naomi's agenda and what's happened to Cas....I want to know the answers to these things so I am still invested in this story. Closing the gates to Hell forever still seems like a worthwhile task and it's one that I'm thinking about long term in respect to S9 and S10 and they must be now thinking about all kinds of story arcs that can lead to the final end of the series.

I'm possibly a little over enthusiastic about that final scene of happiness for me. I'm not sure about how this is supposed to be worked in with a more celebratory/happy vibe from the boys reaching this resolution? I loved the way that final conversation was written between the brothers - it was a solid ending of that soapie-like arc and it felt NATURAL. Dean's "huh" when he realises it's not cut and dried for Sam, and Sam's choice to think about it, take a walk, clear his mind. That all felt right. I wouldn't expect there to be any demonstrative, celebratory, overly happy, big hugging it out on this one. There was the quiet confirmation of the solidity of their brotherhood always topping everything in the end. An exchange of looks (those ones that say more than words ever can) a peace offering of beer and dinner, Dean opening his brother's beer for him. It's where they're at and I loved it.

I don't think there's a lack of trust between them. Sam made it clear that it wasn't Dean he didn't trust, it was Benny. That's just a poor communication on Dean's part and also a poor handling of the situation. Sam vouched for Lenore. If he was able to be around Benny and see what Benny is then I have no doubt that situation would be resolved. But it won't happen & I'm okay with that - because I expect that ;) If it does happen colour me delightfully proved wrong!

Poor Cas is being completely messed up and Benny is no doubt doomed but all that, while it elicits all the usual feelings of sympathy and damn you show responses I can't really be that upset because of the way they fixed the boys in this ep. Left me feeling like a satisfied fan for sure (even if I totally concurred with some of your nit picking up there in The Bad section) ;)

[elsewhere91.livejournal.com]

I also lowered my expectations for this episode (as the last episode just left me feeling bored and empty) and it was better then i expected...but i just still felt that it was, as you rightly said, joyless. It feels like Sam and Dean don't even like each other anymore, i loved that they choose to be together but they both didn't look happy about that :(.

Again, i feel that the show is repeating the same issues that season 7 had - Sam and Dean are not involved with the plot, they have no investment therefore i have no investment. Also it just feels like there are so much issues that haven't been addressed - we still don't know what happened to sam directly after Dean went to purgatory, how Sam knew the reverse exorcism, how Sam and Amelia's story were just too familiar that it couldn't be a coincidence, so there is still hope that there is a plan and no everything is as it seems as we still have half a season left.

Again, it felt like Sam and Dean didn't work out their issues again, and it just starting to feel repetitive and frustrating. I don't understand why they think that good drama is when the brother's fight, just either let them air out all their issues and then grow from their mistakes or just don't have them fight at all.

I agree about Cas, i really liked him in this episode as he felt balanced between the brothers.


I am sure I will find more positives with that ep once I've read some reactions and I've sat on it for a while. I still care

I agree. I still love and care about the show, right now i'm just frustrated that the show again is not living up to it's potential. Sorry about the ranting.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

This is a good point. We KNOW they care. SPN is their bread and butter! This is The Little Show That Could!

What I think might help is some of the people in important positions need to look at their particular craft--be it director, writer, actor--and decide if they're making the best, most creative choices they can in their role. This was a VERY important episode (returning from mid-season hiatus, kicking off the second half of the story), and for me, it felt kinda phoned-in.

As creatives, we need to constantly evolve to stay relevant. Doesn't matter how long we've exacted our particular craft, if we don't do it with eyes open and self-awareness, we don't flourish.

Boy, that was all existential for a TV show! Anywho, yeah. I'm sure they care. But I certainly think there's room for improvement.

[bonwriter.livejournal.com]

* What's Sam and Dean's investment in all this? Why do they care? I feel like they need to be personally invested in order for me to care about what's happening in the story. They're not, so I struggle to care.*

You nailed it here. When their motivation stopped being personal, the show stopped being compelling.

[fourtenpm.livejournal.com]

I think the Amelia story line works for me in this episode, because it says when pushes come to shoves, Sam will give up a girl who he cares about, a lot, to be with Dean. I think it's more complicated and tangled up than, you know, what they'd have you believe with all the soft lights and saturated colors, which is freaking me out. He is not happy about it, though, that is expected.

But it's weird that Amelia and Sam really don't have much chemistry. I mean, back in season 4, Dr. Cora Roberts had more heat with Sam. With Amelia, it's lukewarm at the best. They're more like roommates than lovers.

[fourtenpm.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I actually like it that they are not the focal point of supernatural power struggle. There is no reason, these couple seasons, for heavenly and hellish hosts to pay that much attention on two mortals.

And I like it that they are making it the Winchester business. And I like it that they are concerned about their angel friend, to make it their thing to find out and fight.

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

As always, checking on your ep reaction! I am probably not going to watch - haven't watched the last several - but am hoping to jump in next week again and that I'll just be able to pretend that the first half of the story arc didn't happen. Seems like that might be possible. After all...when was the last time we heard about that little ol' hell-wall?

Amelia? Who's Amelia....?

(Really and seriously haven't given up yet!)

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

*sneaks carefully up to your journal to test the waters* LOL ;)

*reads*

I didn't actually mind Cas too much.

Oh good... ;)
Well, if Cas was himself again and in control there would be no story for him. Just him popping in and out of the picture, doing magic tricks for Sam and Dean. And also, this time he is not bad as such as he doesn't even know what he is doing. Totally brainwashed. Poor Cas. (You know I love him. lol)

*Benny

Do you think they go that round again? To me it seemed as if they were both done with Amelia and Benny in the story now to be able to move on with this odd angel brainwashing stuff.

It was an incredibly sad ending and I did really feel for my two favourite characters. It was also sad that there was a sense that they are together because there isn't an alternative. They are trapped in these lives. Together.

I felt just like you about the ending. *hugs you* But I think there is some great truth to it and I did like this ending. It was a good bye for both of them to their fav dream realites they would have liked to have. If the show now really moves on from here and leaves this story arc behind I'm satisfied.

Your bad points are something that I have been noticing, too, but decided to ignore since there is nothing I can do about it. However, the writers, producers (and whoever else has a say in this) should watch out that they don't water down the show (creating horrror just by making us watch ongoing torture doesn't seem the right way IMO) losing the intense mix of supernatural horror, humour and the kind of relationships that come from that. This is not a show for little girls. Unless they are called Lilith.. ;)

[runedgirl.livejournal.com]

I don't disagree with anything you say here, but the last scene felt more satisfying for me than it did for you. Yes, things are dark and dismal (as they usually are...) and so there's not overt happiness in the scene, but it did feel to me like the boys chose each other as much as the mission. They each gave up their 'other' person - Amelia and Benny - to make a commitment to the mission, but also to each other. They communicate that solidarity subtly - opening a beer for each other, bringing food to each other, that one meaningful look, the comfort between them that hasn't been there in SO long. That's always been the way the boys communicate best, and it felt genuine and significant to me. I felt relieved - that they were together, that Amelia was gone, and while I felt bad for Benny, glad he was gone too.

I sort of interpreted both of them deciding to have 'both feet in' as coming from a more personal reason than the angel tablet or whatever (is bad with plot...) - it felt like Sam is back in because something is very wrong with Cas, and Dean couldn't be there for Benny because of the same reason. I would be so much more invested in them trying to save their friend than 'the world'. I hope they take that path, because while I'm not a huge Cas fan, I could get behind that and I could believe that both the boys really *care* about him.

That episode really cemented for me how much Sam and Amelia never had an ounce of chemistry. Ouch.

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

I'm going to use this comment as my head-canon for what I missed over the last several episodes and where they're at now and am now hoping to watch again next week. It may not even be a promise of better things to come (maybe more like a harbinger!), but I like your take on this episode (which I didn't even watch, mind you).

[alienat.livejournal.com]

I so agree with everything you just said. This is totally putting my scrambled mind into coherent words. :D

[alienat.livejournal.com]

I don't get it really the thing with Sam and Amelia. There was no point at all and we still don't know what happened to Sam immediately after Dean went to Purgatory. Guess we won't find out. I'm just happy that the soapy storyline is gone... hopefully forever. I so could have done without the sex. Even though it gave us shirtless!Sam/Jared. That was nice to look at. ;)

I'm not sure about the storyline with the tablets. I mean I like Kevin and closing the gates of Hell could be interesting. But right now how they're going at it isn't really working all that well for me. I do like that Sam and Dean care for what's going on with Cas and that they bonded over that again.

I haven't been a fan of Cas since season six, but I have to admit that I'm slowly warming up to the character again. Slowly, very slowly. ;) But I did like him in this episode and I liked that he didn't take Sam and Dean's crap and told them to cut it out. I don't really like what they're doing with Naomi, though. I mean we've had bad!Cas already, so I do not want that again.

I felt a little bad for Benny. I mean seeing him like this we all know what'll happen, right? And Dean will have to kill him and for once I hope they won't make him freak out about that. Benny is a vampire and even though he did a lot for Dean, Dean should be able to kill him without diving head on into an angst fest when he starts killing again.

Best thing about this episode was the end. I did think that the last scene with them getting each other a beer and something to eat was hopeful and the little nod they shared told me that they'll be okay (hopefully this isn't just wishful thinking) and still love each other very much. Now they can work on their trust issues.

So yeah, overall I liked the epsiode, even if only for the last five minutes. :)

[locknkey.livejournal.com]

I pretty much agree with you and thought this was a terrific answer. I do think there is a lot of love from cast and crew alike for show, but this ep. felt flat and mis-paced for me (partially becasue I've felt that the Sam/Amelia thing was told and not shown. IE: we love each other so much! - and yet I never got that from the body language, acting, directing - nothing.) The last scene read as a denouement for me and it really should have played as an intense emotional climax - it is possible to do that and still be quiet (A Very Supernatural Christmas comes to mind which is very much an echo of this scene, but I was near to sobbing.) I think we expect a lot encase we know what show is capable of.

As creatives I think it can become a habit to fall back on what we know/are good at rather than pushing ourselves and that will always turn out a good, but in my opinion, less than stellar result. Sometimes it will also result in a complete flop, but it takes courage to evolve artistically and I'm not sure if show is doing that this season.

[locknkey.livejournal.com]

joyless I think you hit it for me. Joy is the thing I've totally been lacking. Sam has been entirely joyless - even in the supposed loving flashbacks it seemed fake - We've seen joyful Sam - we know what it looks like and this season isn't it. When Dean has had a moment of joy it's always solitary with a side of angst from someone else. (Kevin in this ep. and I get it - the world needs saving - blah-blah - but you can take whatever joyful moments present themselves along the way. I would argue that you in fact need to to retain your drive and sanity.) At this point that's all I really want is some joyful; moments (especially ones that Sam and Dean share. I didn't expect that from the final scene - they are both too hurt, but there has been little of it at all this season and it's hard to watch on an ongoing basis - part of what I loved about SPN is the ability to find humor (or even dark humor) amidst the horror and pain.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

YES, 200% yes. You get it.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

This show is on the bubble for cancellation.

Nooo! Say it ain't so! Actually, I've heard the opposite, but a show only has a certain shelf-life; this we know. Reinvigorating the show will prove difficult, but working towards giving it a fitting, potent conclusion isn't a bad goal. I hope they don't drop the ball in the end.

[luminosity]

Yep, yep, yep. Yep, yep, yep. Uh-huh, uh-huh. [/channels Muppets]

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

For some reason an entertainment reporter named Ausiello said Supernatural was on the bubble. TV By the Numbers is a much more accurate site and it calls it as a certain renewal. Supernatural is the third highest ranked show on the CW and Jensen and Jared are on board for the next 2 seasons. It is highly doubtful that Supernatural is going anywhere.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

GOOD. That's what I'd heard.

[(Anonymous)]

Considering that Carver is writing episodes for Being Human this year and has only written one ep of SPN and the recycling they're doing this year... I think it's not so far fetched.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey J. No I don't think they actually say "let's do a half arsed job" at all. I think they do care a lot about the whole production and getting a script together and putting on the show. We know from hearing from a lot of people behind the scenes that many are as passionate about it as we are.

What I worry they don't care about it (or have seem to be less interested in caring about) is telling an engaging or character evolving story. I get that that's purely a personal reaction because I'm sure there are many who have been happy with it but my frustration with seeing nothing new being developed or explored or something even slightly risky is giving me a sense of - idk, laziness or apathy on their part.

At heart I know they care because it's their job and I am sure they want to make a good show, but at them moment they seem to be resorting to good enough - which makes me a little sad.

(Just before I hit the sack late last night I saw that you have posted a review. I look forward to reading it because I know it will give me the insights I am missing. I desperate WANT to connect again so I will be grabbing every positive review I can find).
xx