8.17 reaction

[ash48]

Dear Robbie,

You are my hero. You gave me an angel and demon episode that I actually LOVED! Thank you. <3

Yours forever.

So. Here's the thing. In one episode Robbie as given a deeper, richer, more interesting Meg than we've ever seen before (I know early Meg was awesome but only in a kickass kinda way. Here she actually had a depth that rounded out the character for me). I'm thinking there's probably irony involved in them deciding to kill her off just when we can (finally!) see why she needs to stay.

Hats off to Rachel Miner for giving Meg a soul and hats off to the show for giving her a decent episode to leave on. I am neither here nor there in regards to them killing her off because I have long realised that THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. I have no issue with them killing off secondary characters because they do it all the time - it's almost a motif (I think I can use that word for it). There are times I'd rather they didn't but in Meg's case I can see that there may not be a future for her story line. Though after that I would love to have seen her return. She would have made a great addition to Team Free Will. I am just glad they gave her an amazing send off. (*clings* to Jody and Charlie. I might throw a little tanty if they off them...)

She was certainly given some great lines. My absolute favorite (in reaction to Sam's story):

You fell in love with a unicorn. It was beautiful, then sad, then sadder. I laughed, I cried, I puked in my mouth a little.

HA!! It's like he visited my brain for a moment there. I seriously laughed out loud and applauded his observations on that story line. But it wasn't totally cheap because he allowed Sam to acknowledge that he had that time and it meant something to him.

But mostly I loved that we could see her as a tragic (non-) hero (I'm sure there's a proper name for that). Her story is immensely sad. She'd been tortured and neglected and in the end no one really cared. Except for Cas. *guh* I loved that SO MUCH! That scene between them was perfect. I really felt they had something special (as a side note, I've always considered Cas asexual. Looks like that little bit of head canon has been blown out of the water with that scene...;D)

She has been heroic in the past (she's protected the Winchesters a number of times) but, in the end, for no real reason. Knowing that Sam and Dean didn't even try to look for her was so sad. I felt like saying...don't worry Meg, Sam didn't look for his own brother so don't feel so bad (and no, that's not a go at Sam. Even Jared acknowledged that Sam would have looked for Dean...*sore point*).

A mix of other things - (I'm finding it hard to be coherent at the moment):

Mostly I loved how well rounded that episode felt. Robbie managed to squeeze in so much without it feeling rushed. We had some awesome broments (I LOVE LOVE where Sam and Dean are at at the moment). My hurt!Sam, protective!Dean kink is being completely sated. I CAN'T EVEN!

The Meg/Cas pairing is made of win. A good demon and a bad angel (I am hoping we get some fic out of that!).

I am sure the Dean and Cas shippers will have a field day but for me I just enjoyed seeing a friendship tested. I admit to squirming a little during Dean begging Cas for his life and the "I need you" was a little much for me - mostly because I struggle to believe that Dean really needs Cas. For me it's part of that whole telling us that they have this profound bond without ever really seeing it. Though I do believe Dean when he says Cas is family. So maybe it's about having another family member - someone else he can call on.

I also liked how Cas had to be conditioned to kill Dean. That opening scene was pretty powerful and to then have that scene repeated was poignant. The crossing between earth and heaven was fab. Hats off to Misha for selling a conflicted and two distinctively different Castiels.

I even found Crowley more believable. I actually felt that he was threatening and horrible and possibly a real threat. I'm not totally convinced - he could have just snapped Sam's neck - but I felt totally creeped out with his handling of Meg. I can't WAIT to see the boys smite him. PLEASE SMITE HIM!

Sam and Dean's stories were both acknowledged and well handled. Sam really is beginning to look sick (I hope that's not just the way Jared is looking at the moment) and there's an edge to him that gives Sam an added weight on his shoulders. I thought Jared really played him beautifully in the episode.

Dean's tiredness with being lied to really came to the fore. I just love that we can really see that Dean should be trusted. Dean is a solid guy everyone. TRUST HIM! I know why Sam didn't tell Dean he was sick but I love that we got Dean saying - can you just stop with the lies now. It's time to come clean. I felt that Sam meant his apology and I hope that they allow Sam to remain honest from now on. Dean's concern for Sam shone through - I live for moments like that. Jensen also brought a wonderful weight to his character - not so heavy that's he's drowning but just enough to show us the water rising.

GUH!!! So many feels.

I am thrilled that the whole Naomi thing is busted open and Sam and Dean know what's been going on with Cas.

I love that Cas is back to...well...um...Cas. He's doing something meaningful and angel like - protecting the angel tablet is a cool thing to be doing.

The end was FANTASTIC! Cas on a bus is great because it harks back to when his vessel, Jimmy, was on a bus deciding what he future will be.

I loved the directing. There were some beautifully framed shots. The end one in particular was gorgeous. The whole episode was very tight.

YAY! Bat Cave! I continue to adore their new home. So many things to explore (though Dean should know better than to open up strange objects!).

OMG! Meg actually mentioned possessing Sam. That's all sorts kinda awesome. Robbie has done his homework and I love him EVEN MORE for it.

I shouted out "WOOT" when Cas said Sam was damaged beyond his ability to fix him. Now I am completely intrigued with what's wrong with Sam. If he's like this after one trial what's he going to be like after the third?! *bounces in anticipation*

Cas reminding the boys that he is a celestial being. THANK YOU!! I like snarky Cas.


(Ummm...I've said I've liked Cas a few times haven't I?! What the hell...?!! I blame Robbie!!)

Dean telling Sam that he will carry him... BE STILL MY HEART!!!! <3333333 And then them making a joke about it...SO VERY WINCHESTER!! I just love it.

Dear Robbie,

Can you please write all the demon and angel episodes from now on?

Thanks
Me.

Only nit pick. The demon vessels continue to be ignored as actual people. I need to move on from that I know, but it kinda bugs me.


Overall a solid, entertaining, well rounded and satisfying episode. I look forward to seeing where they are taking all this. I am certainly feeling more invested in these trials now that they have become more personal to the boys.

Comments

[fourtenpm.livejournal.com]

that I puked a little in my mouth line, pure gold. I  mean I am not that against Amelia story line, but it pretty much summed the whole arc up

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I'm with you 100% on this one! You've picked out a lot of the things I loved about it too, including "There were some beautifully framed shots. The end one in particular was gorgeous." Yes! The lighting in that car scene was so lovely I was actually almost distracted from the broments - I've said elsewhere, the rain catching all the lights outside made it look like they were driving through a field of stars. Twas beautiful.

And I was thinking exactly this during that batcave scene "Dean should know better than to open up strange objects!" I was just waiting for something to bite him.

[harrigan.livejournal.com]

Squee! (Mostly. I share your feeling about Meg, i.e. that she became a fully realized, engaging character (for me) and I was sad that she died just when she revealed so much more story potential. But I accept that the show kills off everyone: no shock and dismay on that score. My other nitpick was seeing Dean beaten bloody so the possessed-or-brainwashed attacker can gradually dig deep inside to find the strength to reject that course of action... has been done already. I don't know how else they might have achieved the same thing, but it felt very repetitive.)

That being said, all kinds of love for this episode. I look forward to watching it again (always a good sign). You didn't mention my favorite part:

I can't carry the burden, but I can carry you. [sniffles from me!]

Dude, you realize that's from LOTR! [LOL from me!]

And of course, Samwise being played by the same actor who played Rudy would make it all okay with Dean! Me, too!

[maenad.livejournal.com]

I know early Meg was awesome but only in a kickass kinda way. Here she actually had a depth that rounded out the character for me.

Cool. :)

I liked the story because it celebrated all the things I've always thought were good about Meg. I've felt for her ever since Azazel gave that little speech about the demons Sam and Dean fought being his children. All I could think was how shocked and freaked out she was when her own brother shot her.

She was always a version of Dean who didn't have a Sam - not one who'd fight for her, anyway. Consequently she revels in all the demonic things - violence, possession, molestation - but she's also loyal, dedicated, snarky and very self-aware. I've liked Meg for ages.

When I saw the promo, I worried that they were going to make her a cardboard villain (I didn't know Thompson was the writer till I saw his name in the credits) because I haven't been too happy with their take on demons this year. I'm pleased that they chose to explore her complexity instead.

She was certainly given some great lines. My absolute favorite (in reaction to Sam's story)

Definitely that. I also liked her telling Castiel to just watch a damn movie. That's pretty much how I respond to his cluelessness. If nothing else, I do wish she'd stayed to keep hammering sense into her angel. :)

Her story is immensely sad. She'd been tortured and neglected and in the end no one really cared.

Yeah. This is her tragedy. No one is on Meg's side. And there are individual cases where that makes sense - I know why it's hard for Sam and Dean to trust her - but it all adds up. It must be an awful thing to realise that you're no one's priority.

The Meg/Cas pairing is made of win. A good demon and a bad angel (I am hoping we get some fic out of that!).

Meg and Castiel - as a friendship or a romance - makes so much more sense to me than Dean and Castiel. I'm not trying to complain too much about them killing Meg (I'm a little peeved, in a 'But I liked her!' sort of way, but I know that's how the show works), but I do wish they'd had more time to explore this. There's enough Dean in Meg that Castiel can flex his Sam muscles without actually eating Sam's part and - here we have two soldiers who fought in a war that wasn't about what they thought it was about, who now have to come to terms with the complexity of the world. They could have had such interesting conversations.

I even found Crowley more believable. I actually felt that he was threatening and horrible and possibly a real threat.

I just want to know what was up with his conversation with Naomi. Mesopotamia? My sound was a bit funny. I keep hoping I misheard that.

Edit: And what's with his hair fetish lately? Cutting is one thing but ... making Meg blonde? :)

I felt that Sam meant his apology and I hope that they allow Sam to remain honest from now on. Dean's concern for Sam shone through - I live for moments like that. Jensen also brought a wonderful weight to his character - not so heavy that's he's drowning but just enough to show us the water rising.

I loved that they both calm and adult about this. No serious blow ups, no storming off, just an acknowledgement of how things are. I think there's hope in that: they still have the same tendencies to lie to protect each other ... but now they're more aware of why they do that, and can move past it when it happens.

Dean telling Sam that he will carry him... BE STILL MY HEART!!!! <3333333 And then them making a joke about it...SO VERY WINCHESTER!! I just love it.

There are far worse things than being Sam Gamgee. :)

Only nit pick. The demon vessels continue to be ignored as actual people. I need to move on from that I know, but it kinda bugs me.

It only bugs me in some contexts. I don't expect them to make a big song and dance about every host, but when we meet them first ...

But still - they should really keep Robbie Thompson. He has a knack for this.

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

Been peeking all morning, waiting for your reaction, and THERE IT IS!!! Because I am always so on your same page, I now feel confident. :-)))

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Pure gold!!!!

All those lines pretty much summed it up for me...particularly the puking part,,,;)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ha! Yes! It's curious how Dean always has to taste or sniff things... it's like he has to use his other senses to get a real read on something. I always remember him tasting the ingredients in those bags they were making with Missouri. Oh why Dean?!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It's unbelievable that just when they fully realise Meg they kill her off. Though I wonder if that's come about precisely because it was her death episode.

I'm not sure Meg ever had a purpose (?). I mean, Ruby did. Bela (sorta) did. Meg has had purposes - or goals, but in the end she died in the trenches and no one cares. It's so sad.

I always loved the potential of Meg. A "good" demon. I like that by then end we had sympathy for her.

Oh and I did mention that part!! It was my fav moment:

Dean telling Sam that he will carry him... BE STILL MY HEART!!!! <3333333 And then them making a joke about it...SO VERY WINCHESTER!! I just love it.

Ok, so I didn't specifically mention the LOTR reference - WHICH I LOVED! I also love the Star Wars reference!! Too short to be a storm trooper... hee

Some great lines in this one...

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ha! I wonder if one day I'll go yay and you'll go nay...:)

It's a tricky one because it features the dreaded (for me) Dean and Cas scene, but it's tempered by a lovely Cas and Meg scene.

Of course, I focus on all the Sam and Dean stuff and that's just lovely....

Enjoy hun. :)

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

So...it's not all Cas, all the time? Our boys get their fair share as well?

Tis what I was nervous about!

[tattooeddevil.livejournal.com]

I couldn't have said it any better! You nailed it all right on the head *standing ovation*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

There's quite a bit of Cas, but the boys aren't ignored. Their connected is so very strong. And I liked what Robbie did with Cas enough to be able to sit through the huge Dean and Cas scene.

It's not all SamnDean - but I think having Meg in the mix rounded the episode out so it wasn't a purely Dean and Cas focused ep.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I've liked Meg for ages.

Oh I've liked Meg also. (Well, up until those last few episodes in S7 that I really didn't think did her justice). She's always been so strong and wonderfully snarky. I just never felt really sympathetic to her I suppose. The potential was always there but in this ep it felt fully realised. I felt like I finally understood the futility and sadness of her existence.

And...a Dean without a Sam...*sniff*

If nothing else, I do wish she'd stayed to keep hammering sense into her angel.

Oh yes! Hee... maybe there could be a spin off series. "A Demon and her Angel."

Meg and Castiel - as a friendship or a romance - makes so much more sense to me than Dean and Castiel

Oh yes indeed. I've said it many times that I struggle to see the Cas and Dean friendship (let alone romance /o\). I think they are working on it, but, to me, I see more of a connection between Dean and Benny - in a buddy kind of way. Maybe Dean and Cas is more about a "forced" bond rather than a natural one. I dunno. Cas and Meg is a perfect match..;)

Mesopotamia? My sound was a bit funny. I keep hoping I misheard that.

No. I think you heard right. It just went straight over my head. I figure they are setting up something between the two of them. And yeah, probably retcon - which they are getting good at now that the show keeps on going...

And what's with his hair fetish lately?

There's something fishy! Let's hope he never gets hold of Sam!

There are far worse things than being Sam Gamgee

Oh indeed..:))

[maenad.livejournal.com]

I felt like I finally understood the futility and sadness of her existence.

... I feel like Robbie Thompson is vindicating all my little pro-demon rants. It makes me happy. :)

Oh yes indeed. I've said it many times that I struggle to see the Cas and Dean friendship (let alone romance /o\). I think they are working on it, but, to me, I see more of a connection between Dean and Benny - in a buddy kind of way. Maybe Dean and Cas is more about a "forced" bond rather than a natural one. I dunno. Cas and Meg is a perfect match..;)

Yeah. I think there are problems with the way the relationship started that makes them awkward as friends. I know other people see it, but I just ... don't. And that's what I find interesting about Meg and Castiel. It has two characters coming together without that awkwardness. The relationship develops naturally. So it's not so much that a person like Dean couldn't be friends with someone like Castiel, it's that the context of their meeting and interactions is wrong for it.

There's something fishy! Let's hope he never gets hold of Sam!

Oh God. Do you think that's the finale? While Sam completes the final trial, Dean must defend him from Crowley's Scissors of Doom? :)

[werty30.livejournal.com]

Dean is a solid guy everyone. TRUST HIM!

LOL, that is so true. Although I've come to appreciate Sam's lying ways. I'm okay, Dean, it's just the wrong pipe! I'm sad that he stopped, would've been fun if he continued till the bitter end. It's not blood spilling from my eyes, Dean, it's just runny mascara. The Mary Kay salesperson said I'm a spring and crimson is my color.

Just kidding, I'm really happy that the lying is over with, and Dean knows, and he will carry Sam.

The demon vessels continue to be ignored as actual people. I need to move on from that I know, but it kinda bugs me.

Me too. They are supposed to be saving people.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

He obviously watched too much Due South when he was growing up!

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

Meg's references to unicorns -- referring to Amelia and Castiel -- were just wonderful. And when she referred to Castiel as being HER unicorn . . . that was one of my favorite scenes. I love that she was given a great scene with Castiel, another great scene with Sam, and so many wonderful lines overall, but at the same time, look at what we could have had.

I admit to squirming a little during Dean begging Cas for his life and the "I need you" was a little much for me

Heh. I squirmed a LOT, to the point of having to look away from the screen. In addition to being entirely too gruesome (I don't like to see my boys all bloody), the beatdown scene was just too close to comfort to the end of "Swan Song," all the way down to the magical verbal trigger that gets his attacker to come to his sense and stop. It wasn't my favorite scene in S5 and not my favorite scene now.

The demon vessels continue to be ignored as actual people.

Jeez, THANK YOU. I'd begun to wonder if anyone else had picked up on how they don't even try to exorcise any more. I mean, I get them killing when they really have no choice, but we KNEW the woman in curlers before she was possessed.

Loved, loved, LOVED Dean putting his foot down. "Can we just stop with the lies . . ." Everybody and their dog has been lying to him. I'm just surprised it took him this long.

Sam being damaged "on a molecular level" is just all sorts of worrying. The next few episodes will be interesting.

And yeah, the scene on the bus hearkened directly back to Jimmy. It had to be an intentional reference -- I can't wait to see where they go with that.

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

*butts in politely*

Meg and Castiel - as a friendship or a romance - makes so much more sense to me than Dean and Castiel. I'm not trying to complain too much about them killing Meg (I'm a little peeved, in a 'But I liked her!' sort of way, but I know that's how the show works), but I do wish they'd had more time to explore this.

Oh, dear God, this. They finally allow us to see just how interesting this pairing could have been . . . and almost immediately kill off one half of it. :(

[runedgirl.livejournal.com]

The Cas and Dean big scene didn't quite work for me either - Dean's "I need you, we're family" didn't ring true. It was close, but not quite - maybe I just second guess that it's there because they know so much of fandom wants it to be? But the rest of Cas this time did work for me, so that's nice.

I also cringe when they take out humans at the same time as they gank demons and no one flinches, but it seems to be something they've come to terms with somewhere offstage that we weren't privy to. Still...ouch.

But omg, that brother scene in the Impala, SO beautiful! The dialogue rang perfectly true, the acting was flawless - it literally made me tear up. They both allowed some vulernability with each other, some honesty. And Dean's "I can carry you"...OMG. This is what I watch the show for! :)

Robbie Thompson can definitely stay.

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

Lovely read! Re-feeling an episode you loved through your eyes is wonderful every time! :D
I need to watch it again. I missed a few things that were said due to English not being my first language. (And sometimes I feel like my brain is on holiday or something. :P )

Cas telling Sam and Dean from the other room that he can hear them totally cracked me up. lol

I thought of you when Cas said he can't repair Sam. That you would be happy about that. And of course I am, too! :D

I could go through your whole post here and just nod to each point. I just so agree. :D

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Thanks hun! I hadn't seen many other reactions before I wrote this. (I did completely spoil myself for Meg's death though by reading a review before I watched it. Stooopid!).

[colls]

I said not too long ago that I couldn't really ship Cas with anyone, although I had brief Cas/Balthazar moments once upon a time.

But in one episode I began rooting for a demon to live happily ever after with her unicorn. Of course, a few minutes later she was dead.
:/


The Cas beating Dean scene and then 'snapping out of it' was the only scene that was off to me. As mentioned, it's too much like Swan Song only I didn't feel emotionally invested. But I loved the rest of the episode.

"Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" A+ Meg, A+ biggest dopiest grin on my face at that - Ha!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It's not blood spilling from my eyes, Dean, it's just runny mascara.

HA!! I'm not dying here on the floor, I'm just resting. Oh boys!

I think they seem demon vessels as goners once they've been taken over. Or something. :(

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I LOVED the unicorn reference. And when she sadly referred to Cas being her unicorn...*sniff*

The Dean whump scene was hard to watch (it reminded me of the Swan Song scene as well). Poor Dean. That's twice now Cas has beaten him up. I just found the begging a little...um...much (and not entirely believable. I dunno - maybe it's just me and how I can view these two sometimes).

Re the demon vessels. I though they were concerned about the actual women but turns out they only considered her a demon. I'll have to watch it again (and I'm just about to :D) but I'm not sure how they knew she was dead dead. I'm thinking it's probably something the guy said...

Sam's damaged on a molecular level!! MEEP! What does that even mean. Is his body changing? *yikes* Sam might turn into something else....or die. But I'm thinking they can't do death again (unless they set S9 in heaven for a while...)

*rubs hands* I'm so loving this turn of events.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Dean's "I need you, we're family" didn't ring true.

Yeah. I wasn't believing it. It felt a little bit fan service-y. I know Robbie has a lot of contact with fans so (I've seen some of them beginning him to make destiel canon). I think he balanced it all nicely. I think he gave the Dean/Cas fans something to be happy about but mostly he gave Cas a little more agency, along with Meg. I figure by now we just have to assume Dean sees Cas as family (though considering everything he's put them through it surprises me...)

BROTHER SCENE WAS PERFECT!!! Not overly soppy - just stating facts. And I did like Sam's "sorry". He should know his big brother well enough to know he can't keep secrets (especially his health) from Dean. I think Sam is going to need Dean to carry him through this - whether he likes it or not. Looks like these trials are going to take their toll (umm...woot!...)

I always feel safe with Robbie. I knew this was going to be an angel and demon ep, but knowing that he wrote it made me feel much MUCH safer going in.