Yes. I will be very surprised (and upset) if Sam has to accept this possession because of anything "good" Gad has done.
When I pointed out that Gadreel has done "good" also, I wasn't thinking of it as a reason for Sam to accept the possession. But, it is something to be acknowledged, because doing something "bad", doesn't mean that the "good" that's done becomes meaningless. The real reason for accepting the possession is because it saved Sam's life.
For me killing Kevin is unforgivable though. Killing someone because he was "told to" bothers me (exactly the same way it bothered me that Cas was prepared to kill on Metatron's insistence). I get that they think it's for some greater good but killing anyone can't be good. I do wonder though if they are trying to draw parallels between Gad and Sam (though…nah…I can't see that actually).
There are parallels. That nurse died in 4.22, because of what Ruby "told" Sam to do. Both Sam and Gadreel were trying to do something for the greater good, even though they were misguided. Remember when Sam said in 5.02 to Lindsey… "But...I made some mistakes, I did some stuff I'm not so proud of, and people got hurt. A lot of people." And Lindsey replied " I do know that no one has ever done anything so bad that they can't be forgiven. They can't change." And in 9.02, Sam said "what Tracy said about me, she wasn't wrong" And Dean replied " You have helped a hell of a lot more people than you have hurt. So all of that... that was then. Okay? Here's to now." Gadreel helped more people than he hurt. It does mean something. And if he redeems himself in the future, then there's all the people he'll help then, too. "Here's to now' is about living in the present. Sam had his redemption, Sam in the present time is doing lots of good. If Gadreel turns things around, then he deserves to be forgiven.
but I think the ship sailed on his being a good guy the moment he violated both human and angelic standards of consent by possessing Sam. It's another layer to Gadreel and for them to try and sell him as being anything other than shady is going to be very difficult.
It's Dean who wanted to save Sam, and asked Gadreel for options, even the "bad" ones. It's not like Gadreel decided he wanted to possess Sam and tricked him for his own purposes. It was done because it was the only way to save Sam's life. If Gadreel hadn't suggested doing this (or if he had refused to do it), then Sam would've died. The question is, whether Sam's life is worth him being possessed without his consent. I say "yes". Possessing Sam in order to save Sam's life, doesn't make Gadreel "shady".
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Date: 2013-12-17 10:55 pm (UTC)When I pointed out that Gadreel has done "good" also, I wasn't thinking of it as a reason for Sam to accept the possession. But, it is something to be acknowledged, because doing something "bad", doesn't mean that the "good" that's done becomes meaningless. The real reason for accepting the possession is because it saved Sam's life.
For me killing Kevin is unforgivable though. Killing someone because he was "told to" bothers me (exactly the same way it bothered me that Cas was prepared to kill on Metatron's insistence). I get that they think it's for some greater good but killing anyone can't be good. I do wonder though if they are trying to draw parallels between Gad and Sam (though…nah…I can't see that actually).
There are parallels. That nurse died in 4.22, because of what Ruby "told" Sam to do. Both Sam and Gadreel were trying to do something for the greater good, even though they were misguided. Remember when Sam said in 5.02 to Lindsey… "But...I made some mistakes, I did some stuff I'm not so proud of, and people got hurt. A lot of people." And Lindsey replied " I do know that no one has ever done anything so bad that they can't be forgiven. They can't change." And in 9.02, Sam said "what Tracy said about me, she wasn't wrong" And Dean replied " You have helped a hell of a lot more people than you have hurt. So all of that... that was then. Okay? Here's to now." Gadreel helped more people than he hurt. It does mean something. And if he redeems himself in the future, then there's all the people he'll help then, too. "Here's to now' is about living in the present. Sam had his redemption, Sam in the present time is doing lots of good. If Gadreel turns things around, then he deserves to be forgiven.
but I think the ship sailed on his being a good guy the moment he violated both human and angelic standards of consent by possessing Sam.
It's another layer to Gadreel and for them to try and sell him as being anything other than shady is going to be very difficult.
It's Dean who wanted to save Sam, and asked Gadreel for options, even the "bad" ones. It's not like Gadreel decided he wanted to possess Sam and tricked him for his own purposes. It was done because it was the only way to save Sam's life. If Gadreel hadn't suggested doing this (or if he had refused to do it), then Sam would've died. The question is, whether Sam's life is worth him being possessed without his consent. I say "yes". Possessing Sam in order to save Sam's life, doesn't make Gadreel "shady".