Thinky thoughts on episode reactions
Dec. 12th, 2014 09:05 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ash48On Fandom Reactions and Reacting. And why the request to "...just stop watching" is difficult.
Please note that this is not in response to any one person's comment. My husband said it to me recently and it got me thinking. Also, I started writing up a disclaimer for my reaction posts and realised I had some things I wanted to say about negativity and episode reactions. I've also been tussling with Twitter and trying to figure out how to successfully "play" over there.
After episode 10.09 ended I went on a verbal tirade around the house and my husband copped most of it. After carrying on a treat he stopped me and said "why don't you just stop watching it then?" (rather too hopefully I might add!). I looked at him and said "Are you mad? How could I do that? You can see how passionate I still am. I wouldn't be ranting like this if I could simply walk away. I still ADORE these characters and I am still heavily invested in their story" (I'm sure he thinks I'm mad, but loves me anyway…*g*).
The thing is, I've also seen this reaction from fans to fans. I understand the sentiment and appreciate how frustrating it must be for fans who have nothing but praise for an episode to then read a heap of negativity about it. It must seem strange that fans could watch a show that they have negative feelings for.
Unfortunately, the option to simply "stop watching" is not that simple. In fact, I'd say the very nature of how difficult it is, is the reason why negative comments and reactions exist. I know that for me, the only reason I will be negative about the show is because I can't (and don't want to) tear myself away from it. I WANT the show to keep me engaged and be everything I love about it. I WANT it to live up to my expectations and be of a high standard. It's when it doesn't do those things that I will find myself reacting negatively to it.
Much of that negatively comes about because of the pain that is felt when the show lets you down. It's about loving it with all your heart but seeing things in it that annoy you or you think are just plain stupid. It might even be a way of trying to let go. Being negative and posting about it could be a way of doing some self convincing…this is why I should let go. Kind of like death throes. I admire the fan who can suddenly cut ties and not spend years lamenting it. I am intrigued by fans who say "I haven't watched the last few episodes and I really don't care". That, for me, is a sign that the passion has gone and therefore the ability to cut ties completely is so much easier. The day I don't care if I miss and episode will be the day I truly know the passion is fading. Just because I am angry at an episode (or permanently pissed at Carver) should not mean I should stop watching or stop sharing my feelings on it (not that I've directly been accused of this).
Having said that, I don't consider myself really that negative. In fact, I'd say that I'm pretty positive most of the time. Of all my reviews this season the latest episode is the only one I've been annoyed with. I've rated most episodes either "awesome" or "pretty good", so being critical on ONE episode in a season does not make me some sort of a "bad" or disloyal fan. It makes me a frustrated fan who needs an outlet. I've always seen fandom as a place to be able to discuss all elements of the show - be them positive or negative.
I think it's possible to be a loyal "good" fan AND be critical about the show. I don't mean out and out character bashing or stomping all over someone else's squee. Nor do I mean sending hate to the writers or jumping hatefully on someone's tweet/comment because you disagree with them. I mean being able to say "man, that sucked" or saying "what's happening to my show?!" without the backlash.
Which brings me to another area that I've been wanting thinking about lately.
I try very hard to not dump negativity on other people's journals but it gets trickier on places like Twitter and Tumblr. On LJ we have a space that we can create cut-texts to hide content. Followers can decide whether to click on your thoughts and read what you have to say and by doing so take responsibility for what they are about to read, but on Twitter they can't make that choice (unless blacklisting tags, but I'm not sure that's very successful).
I have realised that posting random (negative) thoughts on Twitter is problematic. There are people who just don't want to see that. I have been trying lately not to dump negativity on Twitter because I am conscious that some of my followers just don't want to see it. I know I could accept losing them as followers and I probably need to toughen up in that regard - but the connections I have with many of those people are more important to me than using it as an outlet for my frustration. The problem with Twitter is that it is SO easy to just jump on and post a random thought that pops into your head. It takes a lot of strength (for me) to NOT do that, so I've made a choice to stop visiting there as much as I was. My problem is, I don't really have an outlet for random frustrations, observations or even squee anymore. I don't see LJ as a great place for one off random comments and twitter means that you're likely to offend someone. I suppose it's about control and not giving into the feeling of needing to shout things out to the world. But damn it, sometimes I just want to post random observations or worries or excitement about stuff without the fear of pissing someone off. Unfortunately I have the kind of personality that worries about being at odds with people I've met in fandom.
Mostly this is about saying that criticising the show, the writers, the show runner etc. does not automatically make you a disloyal or bad fan. I think it makes you a fan who, for whatever reason, still wants to be involved with the show and the fandom but needs the freedom to complain about it or perhaps make fun of it, or find a way to enjoy it despite it's failings. I find in many cases the complaining ends up being a way to reconcile problematic aspects of the show in order to move on. That's my personal experience of it anyway.
On the flip side, I think positivity has to be utterly respected also. Nothing is better than having a positive reaction to an episode. I love seeing people's positive reactions to ones I feel negative about. If I'm feeling positive about an episode I tend to avoid, or skip past negative ones and accept that we each view things differently. I'm always thrilled to come off of an episode full of joy and usually I don't care if there are others who are negative about it. Over the years I've come to trust my initial reaction to an episode. If it didn't work for whatever reason I will be true to that. If I felt squeeful (even when others didn't) I will be happy that I was lucky enough to experience it the way I did. We are all different and even though we may never see eye to eye, I think it might be possible to respect each others reactions. No matter what they are.
Please note that this is not in response to any one person's comment. My husband said it to me recently and it got me thinking. Also, I started writing up a disclaimer for my reaction posts and realised I had some things I wanted to say about negativity and episode reactions. I've also been tussling with Twitter and trying to figure out how to successfully "play" over there.
After episode 10.09 ended I went on a verbal tirade around the house and my husband copped most of it. After carrying on a treat he stopped me and said "why don't you just stop watching it then?" (rather too hopefully I might add!). I looked at him and said "Are you mad? How could I do that? You can see how passionate I still am. I wouldn't be ranting like this if I could simply walk away. I still ADORE these characters and I am still heavily invested in their story" (I'm sure he thinks I'm mad, but loves me anyway…*g*).
The thing is, I've also seen this reaction from fans to fans. I understand the sentiment and appreciate how frustrating it must be for fans who have nothing but praise for an episode to then read a heap of negativity about it. It must seem strange that fans could watch a show that they have negative feelings for.
Unfortunately, the option to simply "stop watching" is not that simple. In fact, I'd say the very nature of how difficult it is, is the reason why negative comments and reactions exist. I know that for me, the only reason I will be negative about the show is because I can't (and don't want to) tear myself away from it. I WANT the show to keep me engaged and be everything I love about it. I WANT it to live up to my expectations and be of a high standard. It's when it doesn't do those things that I will find myself reacting negatively to it.
Much of that negatively comes about because of the pain that is felt when the show lets you down. It's about loving it with all your heart but seeing things in it that annoy you or you think are just plain stupid. It might even be a way of trying to let go. Being negative and posting about it could be a way of doing some self convincing…this is why I should let go. Kind of like death throes. I admire the fan who can suddenly cut ties and not spend years lamenting it. I am intrigued by fans who say "I haven't watched the last few episodes and I really don't care". That, for me, is a sign that the passion has gone and therefore the ability to cut ties completely is so much easier. The day I don't care if I miss and episode will be the day I truly know the passion is fading. Just because I am angry at an episode (or permanently pissed at Carver) should not mean I should stop watching or stop sharing my feelings on it (not that I've directly been accused of this).
Having said that, I don't consider myself really that negative. In fact, I'd say that I'm pretty positive most of the time. Of all my reviews this season the latest episode is the only one I've been annoyed with. I've rated most episodes either "awesome" or "pretty good", so being critical on ONE episode in a season does not make me some sort of a "bad" or disloyal fan. It makes me a frustrated fan who needs an outlet. I've always seen fandom as a place to be able to discuss all elements of the show - be them positive or negative.
I think it's possible to be a loyal "good" fan AND be critical about the show. I don't mean out and out character bashing or stomping all over someone else's squee. Nor do I mean sending hate to the writers or jumping hatefully on someone's tweet/comment because you disagree with them. I mean being able to say "man, that sucked" or saying "what's happening to my show?!" without the backlash.
Which brings me to another area that I've been wanting thinking about lately.
I try very hard to not dump negativity on other people's journals but it gets trickier on places like Twitter and Tumblr. On LJ we have a space that we can create cut-texts to hide content. Followers can decide whether to click on your thoughts and read what you have to say and by doing so take responsibility for what they are about to read, but on Twitter they can't make that choice (unless blacklisting tags, but I'm not sure that's very successful).
I have realised that posting random (negative) thoughts on Twitter is problematic. There are people who just don't want to see that. I have been trying lately not to dump negativity on Twitter because I am conscious that some of my followers just don't want to see it. I know I could accept losing them as followers and I probably need to toughen up in that regard - but the connections I have with many of those people are more important to me than using it as an outlet for my frustration. The problem with Twitter is that it is SO easy to just jump on and post a random thought that pops into your head. It takes a lot of strength (for me) to NOT do that, so I've made a choice to stop visiting there as much as I was. My problem is, I don't really have an outlet for random frustrations, observations or even squee anymore. I don't see LJ as a great place for one off random comments and twitter means that you're likely to offend someone. I suppose it's about control and not giving into the feeling of needing to shout things out to the world. But damn it, sometimes I just want to post random observations or worries or excitement about stuff without the fear of pissing someone off. Unfortunately I have the kind of personality that worries about being at odds with people I've met in fandom.
Mostly this is about saying that criticising the show, the writers, the show runner etc. does not automatically make you a disloyal or bad fan. I think it makes you a fan who, for whatever reason, still wants to be involved with the show and the fandom but needs the freedom to complain about it or perhaps make fun of it, or find a way to enjoy it despite it's failings. I find in many cases the complaining ends up being a way to reconcile problematic aspects of the show in order to move on. That's my personal experience of it anyway.
On the flip side, I think positivity has to be utterly respected also. Nothing is better than having a positive reaction to an episode. I love seeing people's positive reactions to ones I feel negative about. If I'm feeling positive about an episode I tend to avoid, or skip past negative ones and accept that we each view things differently. I'm always thrilled to come off of an episode full of joy and usually I don't care if there are others who are negative about it. Over the years I've come to trust my initial reaction to an episode. If it didn't work for whatever reason I will be true to that. If I felt squeeful (even when others didn't) I will be happy that I was lucky enough to experience it the way I did. We are all different and even though we may never see eye to eye, I think it might be possible to respect each others reactions. No matter what they are.
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no subject
Date: 2014-12-12 01:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-12-12 01:40 pm (UTC)Conclusion: you do you, bud.
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Date: 2014-12-12 01:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-12-12 01:44 pm (UTC)And speaking of that why the hell would Sam have left Dean alone with 4 gangsters and waited all that time in the car, anyway? They'd have both kept everyone covered while Cas got the girl out and then backed out together, surely? (sorry, just had to get that off my chest :P)
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Date: 2014-12-12 01:49 pm (UTC)And there is the bewilderment that to someone in charge this plothole/OOC behavior/unbelievable moment DID make sense--are they watching the same show I am? Because I know what Supernatural can be at its best, and that's what I want--all the time!
The negativity stems from disappointment when the show does not live up to its own standards, the personal inability to have any effect on correcting the error, and the worry that the people in charge no longer have the same vision I want.
Because I know you are not someone whose first impulse is to pick apart, when I read one of your reviews where you've been let down I feel sad, especially when I managed to find enjoyment, because I want you to be in love with the show...even though I myself realize it's no longer reflecting my personal vision. I think season 8 took me from believing completely in the perfection of Sam and Dean together to feeling like this is still the only thing I want to watch, and if the show has drifted from what I truly wanted, at least Jensen and Jared are still awesome and totally worth my time/respect.
Hug!
PS I think where this last episode misstepped was in being much lower-key that last year's midseason when Kevin died and Gadreel outed himself as a bad guy...this was tame. Didn't help that the teaser set it up as an action episode. And yet I found it interesting and frankly the John story and the last few minutes were enough for me to be satisfied.
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Date: 2014-12-12 02:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-12-12 02:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-12-12 02:22 pm (UTC)I glad you've been able to come here to read the reviews. :) I'm hoping to have some good things to say about 10.10!
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Date: 2014-12-12 02:34 pm (UTC)I am conscious of that too. Not so much on LJ, but definitely on twitter.
And speaking of that why the hell would Sam have left Dean alone with 4 gangsters and waited all that time in the car, anyway?
Did you see that the director confirmed that Sam thought Dean was right behind him and didn't realise until he for to the car that Dean wasn't there? I have typed up my review for the episode (will post tomorrow) and mention there how clunky that scene is. I think we have to believe that Sam didn't know Dean was still in there and it all happened so quickly that Sam didn't have time to react until it was too late. Essentially, narratively, Sam needed to be out of the way. It had nothing to do with his arc (or any sort of failure on his part), but purely Dean needed his moment so the mark could take over.
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Date: 2014-12-12 02:45 pm (UTC)Speaking of why I can't quit the show since I'm not liking it like before and it's giving me a dose of depression every week, I guess it's because Sam and Dean gave me the courage to make important decisions at the lowest point of my life, and I thank the show forever for that. Now I see Sam and Dean everywhere, and that makes me happy. Fandom has also contributed to my love for the show. Discussions on my flist always keep me thinking about it.
I'm sorry that you don't have a channel to vent your negativity... I try to convert that into fan art so that I can get it out there without ruining the show for others or something like that.
*hugs*
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Date: 2014-12-12 02:46 pm (UTC)And Twitter is just a minefield, even for non celebrity-types like us, with both comments and feedback being unstrained and often rabid. I pop over there occasionally and then run away again to the friendly land of LJ.
Anyhow - I still find you one of the most positive influences around, and I'm more than happy to read any of your thinky thoughts, rants or blurts about the show whether I agree with you or not.
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Date: 2014-12-12 02:46 pm (UTC)Fandom is not about passive consumption. It is about critical engagement. I, like you, love the show too much to quit...likewise, I care about the quality of it too much to sit and cheer when it is being fucking awful.
It doesn't make you a better fan to say everything is great all the time. It shows that you honestly don't care enough to push it to be as good as it deserves to be. In 200+ episodes, something is gonna suck. It's impossible to watch a show that's gone on this long and not see one thing you disagree with. That doesn't mean you walk away. Hell, even the people who work on the show talk about how much they hated certain developments (Jared "why the fuck didn't I look for my brother" Padalecki, Jensen "lol it was so fucking stupid to take the Impala away for a season what did that accomplish?" Ackles will tell you).
Loving the show when everyone else isn't so hot on it doesn't make you a bad fan. Hating the show when everyone else loves it does not make you a bad fan. The only thing that makes a bad fan is being assholes to people who work on the show or other fans. Anyone who tries to drive other people away from a show they love when they are already struggling with watching that show go in directions they hate (that shit stings!) because they are not watching in the way that person feels is correct and pretending it's all good? THAT is a bad fan. And I've gotten a few of them on my ass, but you know what? If Jeremy fucking Carver can't take my show from me, some little minded bully with a keyboard certainly won't.
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Date: 2014-12-12 02:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-12-12 03:06 pm (UTC)I admit, I don't have to worry about saying things on Twitter because I am constitutionally incapable of keeping anything I say to under 140 characters. Tumblr is different, but even there I tend to respond to posts rather than initiate.
I will also admit that there is one type of person to whom I say "then stop watching". Frequently (usually on ratings sites or sites talking about series renewals) someone or many people start saying "They need to cancel Supernatural. It's old. It's tired. It's gotten so bad.". To them I say then don't watch, because actively rooting to have a show, with good ratings, that many people are still enjoying to be canceled because an individual no longer likes it seems petty and wrong and counterproductive. If people stop watching the ratings will go down and the show will be canceled. Campaigning for a show, any show to be canceled for any reason other than not enough people watch it makes zero sense to me.
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Date: 2014-12-12 03:37 pm (UTC)Exactly. Jared's now openly talking about how much he hated the Sam/Amelia storyline -- is he a ~bad fan~ for not licking Carver's balls over it like the fandom thought police told us we were supposed to?
p.s. Ackles makes me want to hashtag that #FandomThoughtPolice
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Date: 2014-12-12 03:41 pm (UTC)#FandomMentalImagePolice
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Date: 2014-12-12 03:41 pm (UTC)~sil
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Date: 2014-12-12 03:43 pm (UTC)OMG, thank you! There are people out there who cannot bear to see anything less than 100% squee for every episode. After my post on 10.9, I got some "I can't stand all this negativity" reactions. From a couple of responses, you would've thought I'd advocated setting fire to Baby, then taking Sam and Dean out back and putting a bullet in their heads. This after I expressed dislike for ONE episode -- one episode out of eight near-perfect ones. One episode in which I still found something to like.
I think it's possible to be a loyal "good" fan AND be critical about the show.
Absolutely! There's a huge gulf between those who utterly despise and nit-pick every single thing about the show, and fans who are critical because they love this show, remember its glory days, and haaaaaaate when the writers or
friggin' Carvershowrunners eff it up. I'm firmly in the second camp -- I love SPN to death, but my love for it is not blind adulation, and you better believe I'm gonna bitch when TPTB screw it up.You can't please everyone all the time, and it's pointless to even try. Enjoy SPN on your own terms, bb. Continue to say what you feel, good or bad. Me, I enjoy all your reviews and meta, from the squeeful, to the "meh," to the "bleh." Carry on!
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Date: 2014-12-12 03:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-12-12 03:56 pm (UTC)I used to watch SPN and just slip into Sam and Dean's world like an old comfy flannel shirt. It actually took a fandom review for me to realize how ludicrous it was for the boys to be stealthily sneaking around town in a cherry, highly noticeable, growly, vintage car. It never even occurred to me that in all these small towns that car would stand out like a beacon. But it didn't matter, I was in the zone.
Even during Sera's reign, I was still there. I liked the Leviathan arc, I just found her pacing really slow and the build up took too long. But Carver just makes me want to tear my hair out. I read
I don't want to hate show, I want to love it and yeah, I can't walk away because I love those boys. I don't think it's dishonest to miss what you loved. Kripke unwittingly stumbled on lightning in a bottle with Sam and Dean. I don't think it's a betrayal to recognize that the magic is gone. We only see faint sputters of it now and then. I for one am hanging on to those for dear life, but I can't turn my brain off and rejoice in SPNs decline. I think the trick is to take joy in the good and not get too bitter about the bad. I do know reading too many bad reviews, just like reading too many spoilers for an episode can have a negative result, but you are allowed to have your thoughts and thanks to the cut, on LJ at least just like with fic, if you don't like what you're reading, move on.
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Date: 2014-12-12 05:05 pm (UTC)If it comes to positivity/negativity and shows, and tend to view them like long-term relationships. After 10 years, you just know each other too well, and things that once were cute and endearing are now irritating and annoying. However, after 10 years you're not really evaluating the relationship in terms of 'do I love you enough to commit to you?' but rather 'are there enough bad things to make me want to leave?' (or is that just me????/o\). And as long as the answer to the latter is NO, I try to refrain from nagging about things he's never gonna change and get upset about them, and cherrish the postitives. So I guess I rarely post if I don't like something, and if I do, I try to frame it like I would constructive critizism, 'I love you hun, I really do, but if you invite your parents ever again without asking me first, you're gonna sleep in the guest room for a year!'.
I don't mind people posting negative stuff - but might not read it/not comment on it if it's not comming from a place of love.
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Date: 2014-12-12 05:33 pm (UTC)Negativity and SPN
Date: 2014-12-12 05:36 pm (UTC)The negativity that has NO PLACE in the fandom is that directed at other individual fans. I don't know what other fan groups are like, but this one tears its belly open and pulls out its entrails almost every week (sorry, too graphic?). There's some serious defamation going on, to say nothing of bullying that borders on stalking. It's ridiculous. That detracts more from the SPN experience than anything that occurs onscreen IMO.
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Date: 2014-12-12 05:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-12-12 05:41 pm (UTC)