10.11 Episode reaction

[ash48]

I enjoyed watching that one. There were some nice broments and Charlie was fun. I had a tear at the end. I am really feeling for Dean - Jensen is doing a great job portraying a breaking Dean.

The diet was funny (reminds me of me at the moment! *g*) and there were some beautiful shots.

Sam looked nice. Jared's hair is settling down (or up...).

There were some "classic" SPN moments - loved the Genesis reference (Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel) and Dean bringing Sam food (yay boys cooking for each other!) and Sam getting choked. We even for a couple of "sonofabitch"es.

So yeah. It was fun to watch. I liked the break from the angel and demon saga. Unfortunately the anvils weighed the episode down a bit, but show does that a lot so it really doesn't bother me that much any more. I suppose there are viewers who don't get the fact that Dean is torn by his good side and dark side. That his dark side is calling to him but his good side is keeping him in check. That it's a mental process, as well as a physical one. So maybe it really does have to be spelled out.

I did enjoy the mirrors between blood addicted!Sam and mark!Dean. I liked the repeat of "you have one thing that he didn't have" (from Nightmare) - especially when Dean then looked at Sam. I liked that Charlie is brought back into the "family" and looks like she'd going to be helping out in some way. I liked the theme of forgiveness.

But.

It's weird how about an hour after watching it I was left with an emptiness and sadness because, as has been the case for what? 2 seasons now? Sam just isn't there. Sure, he's looking at books and looking at Dean with a worried face. He's asking questions and hugging Charlie. He's running around with his hair looking fab. He's worried about Dean (I know I said that but he's doing a lot of that so it needed to be said twice), but he's…I dunno… just nothing really. And you know what I mean…Sam is never "nothing" to me, but it seems that they just can't write Dean with the myth arc AND Sam with a storyline at the same time (have they really forgotten everything he has been through over the last few seasons? *weeps*). He's on the screen but that's kind of all he is. Just - hanging around waiting for Dean to turn darkside. I wonder if he sees himself in Dean's struggle? I wonder if it reminds him of his years and years of battling with his inner demons? Without getting the chance to see any of that he's become more of a cardboard cutout character rather than a fully fleshed out one. I'm beginning to think the #ripsamwinchester tag on twitter is true. It's interesting how secondary characters - Claire and now Charlie, have been given more voice than Sam has recently (and don't get me wrong. I love the quietly concerned, caring and loving Sam. Very much. Jared is portraying Sam's inner strength very well. It's a quality that's I've always admired in Sam. I know I need to be happy with just that at the moment. Maybe the fact that he doesn't have to talk about his past, just >i>act with the knowledge of it is enough. *nods*).

I was especially sad to hear that a scene between him and Charlie had been cut (the one from the promo). It's such a clear indication that his thoughts really don't matter. Or rather, they are just not strong enough to make it to the screen. *shrugs* Not worth worrying about any more I suppose. I really should be getting used to it by now. He looked pretty though! *g*

And maybe I shouldn't be complaining. At least they're not fighting, or being dishonest with each other, or keeping secrets. At least we are still getting some happier brotherly moments. Maybe having Sam do and say nothing keeps him safe from criticism.

Their chemistry is ALWAYS worth watching for though. :)

So other than having to deal with the little bit of heartache that I constantly carry over forgotten Sam, I enjoyed it (Felicia always looks like she's enjoying herself so much. The three of them have great chemistry).



One a different note:

I miss the urban legend MoTWs and the horror angle that we used to get though (when I see that the show comes under the "horror" genre I do a little chuckle. I can't recall the last time I was truly scared). I'd really love to see some grittiness return to the show. I want SPN to be dangerous again. I want it to shock me and surprise me. Maybe I've just been around too long or something. It did make me choke up, so I know I'm still highly invested (and Jensen and Felicia were really rocking that final scene).

Also. I kind of wish the writers weren't so available on twitter. I'm hypocritical of course because I couldn't help myself but respond to Robbie Thompson when he mentioned the scene being cut, but I often wonder just how much they are taking the "snapshot" of fandom on twitter as a representation of all fandom. I feel uncomfortable when they try to be "fans". It's just weird to me. I want to know that they are writing the show without our influence. I want THEM to have a vision and tell the story that they want to tell (yep, even if we don't like it). I've heard some many people say how much this season is using a lot of fan fic tropes. It makes you wonder just how much spying on fandom that they do. Or maybe it's just a coincidence.



[Poll #1997117]

Comments

[gidgetgal9.livejournal.com]

I think I enjoyed it a bit more than you but I guess I've gotten used to the fact our show is different now. I miss Kripke and Sera and the way (especially with Sera) you could get what Sam was feeling. I must say I do enjoy Sam being there for his brother and like you mentioned the honesty and the fact they aren't fighting. I guess I'll take what I can get. :)

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

I clicked "Awesome!" and "Great!", mainly because the Oz backstory didn't do that much for me, but otherwise, I liked the ep a lot. :)

I kinda-sorta get what you mean about Sam, and I haaaate that they cut his scene with Charlie. But I've never seen him as "forgotten."

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I did really enjoy it. There were some great moments and I was engaged the whole time. It was really only after that I thought, again...but what about Sam? But yeah. I gotta forget that and enjoy what there is. :)

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

:(. thanks for bringing some info i didnt know to my attention.(a scene being cut) will be back with my grade of this ep when i watch

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I did enjoy the ep. I was engaged the whole time and chuckled and even had a tear! Dean is breaking my wee heart. So is Charlie. She's a damaged girl.

I'll probably only believe Sam hasn't been forgotten when they give him some words to say that give us some insight into, well.... anything. But maybe we've had those from him already (during the trails I seem to remember some mirror gazing), so I know he has to sit back and wait for his next move.

I am loving their closeness as the moment though. There's some nice brotherly stuff going on. :))

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ooh, you spoiled yourself! Don't let what I say sway you! It's a fun ep. Well, not "fun" like LARP, but it has some solid moments. Well, I thought so anyway.

[zubeneschamali.livejournal.com]

I loved the Oz stuff, and I am SO BUMMED that from what Felicia said on Twitter, they cut the scene that not only involved Sam talking, but Charlie explaining what was going on with her and Dorothy. I WANT TO KNOW.

I totally agree with you about Sam being forgotten. I'm happy that he's no longer "wrong" somehow, the way he was for the majority of the seasons we've had, but it would be nice if he had more to do than look worried. I miss him. :(

I have to admit, though, that I get worried when I hear people complaining about how much screen time Charlie gets, because as you say, the writers do pay attention to fan reactions. And their response may well be, "See, we tried having more female characters, but the fans complained, so we won't do that again!" (To be fair, people also complain about the screen time that non-Winchester male characters get, but somehow I don't think TPTB see that the same way.)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I am SO BUMMED that from what Felicia said on Twitter, they cut the scene that not only involved Sam talking, but Charlie explaining what was going on with her and Dorothy. I WANT TO KNOW.

I know! I can't believe of ALL THE SCENES that one was cut. I kept wondering what had happened to Dorothy (hopefully they'll appear on the missing scenes).

I'm happy that he's no longer "wrong" somehow

This is a blessing. He's not doing anything to be "wrong" about (though, rather cynically I think...give it time! We've got plenty of episodes for Sam to do something "wrong").

I hear people complaining about how much screen time Charlie gets,

Oh really? She's not given anymore than say Jody, I don't think. Maybe it's just that she has such a strong presence that it's felt she has heaps of screen time. This is only her...um...6th episode.

To be fair, people also complain about the screen time that non-Winchester male characters get, but somehow I don't think TPTB see that the same way.

*nods* I do wonder how much the factor in all the comments they get. There was a bit of fan servicing in that (Robbie seems to be very "in touch" with the fans). I suspect we'll get Charlie and Cas meeting soon as that seems to be the call now.

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

My initial reaction was: No demons, no angels- what's not to like. ;) It was a nice episode to watch.

I miss the urban legend MoTWs and the horror angle that we used to get

Me, too. Seems the only true horror we get these days is Sam's hair... And the "sexy lamp" syndrom prevails, doesn't it?

An emptiness and sadness like you mentioned, I felt, too, but right after watching the ep. I'm not sure what exactly caused it. If the story was to make us feel that way, or if I miss something that used to be there or if it even is one of my own moods today. *shrugs*

xx

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

As a friend of mine (who shall remain nameless) said to me last night: "Robbie Thompson is subtweeting fandom through the show and he needs to stop."

[catinplaid.livejournal.com]

You know what, you're right. With everything you said, the positives and the grumble!

I kinda miss the horror in the show as well - I'd like to get really scared again. :) And although I like the accessibility of the writers on twitter, I have the exact same qualms as you...

I loved how they portrayed Dean's struggles with the Mark (Jensen was simply awesome). At some point though, I found myself thinking: THIS is how you show an ongoing storyline - even though there's no real progress, we see how Dean tries to fight the Mark's influence - and I compared it to Sam's hallucinations in S7, where we didn't really see much of it during the whole season. It didn't really make me sad or anything, I just thought - why? (And those were the Sera years, too!) Jared is perfectly capable of portraying Sam's inner struggles, why don't they show us more of it? I'd love that so much!

On the other hand, that's a side of Sam I love very much. Like you, I love how Jared portrays Sam's inner strength. Sam's quiet and kinda withdrawn, and doesn't really connect with people 'cause he's a bit insecure, and that makes sense when you consider his life and all the trauma he's faced, and I really like that side of him, because it feels real. He's human, not some badly-drawn superhero with no emotions!

I really enjoyed the episode nonetheless. The anvils didn't really bother me, and I liked the idea of the good and bad sides of someone as two different people. I loved the broments. Seeing the brothers close like that feels good. And, when I think of it - if we can't get more of Sam, then I'll just enjoy what we see of him now: a quiet, broken boy who's still strong and supportive and there for his brother. That's the Sam I love!

(p.s. Thanks for the welcome last week! I like commenting here. Sometimes, it's nice to write something without twitter's character limit!)

[lyryk.livejournal.com]

I am SO BUMMED that from what Felicia said on Twitter, they cut the scene that not only involved Sam talking, but Charlie explaining what was going on with her and Dorothy. I WANT TO KNOW

So much this! I'd much rather have had that scene than the one with the war in Oz.

[lyryk.livejournal.com]

I've totally been getting that "Sam's not there" feeling this season, and it's weird because Sam has had plenty of screen time. Sam worrying about Dean also seems hollow, somehow, as though he's just going through the motions. But he was fabulous with Charlie, so maybe it's not him. IMO there's just something missing between him and Dean that used to be so tangible in the past. There was a glimmer of that in the last scene: so much affection among the three of them. I wish I could 'feel' at least a fraction of that sort of affection between Sam and Dean right now.

I don't think TPTB can be credited with any positive spin on this, but maybe I can choose to see it as something that is actually off between the two of them. If we choose to take the last season seriously, then Sam's got to be pretty pissed about what Dean did, and it's not going to just go away without being resolved. So yeah, maybe I'll just choose to think that Sam is actually feeling hollowed out and not really in the game, and make up my own head-canon for how things get resolved between them. Because Show isn't going to go there.

tl;dr: I loved seeing Charlie back and interacting so wonderfully with both the boys. :-P

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I think you've put your finger on why this episode left me dissatisfied - they seem to be set on bringing other characters in to do Sam's job and then leaving Sam kind of hanging about in the background. Even when he has dialogue and things to do, he's not really INVOLVED, somehow. And, dammit, I WANT this show to be about Sam and Dean, not Dean and a load of characters I don't really care about, or even Dean and characters I do care about but whom I want to have their own stories (like Jody and Donna). And as you know, I'm still a big Dean girl...

I feel like they are giving me lots of sugar at the moment. I get a brief high then a swooping low afterwards. All my carbs and nutrients are coming from fandom!

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

I felt like I had to duck to avoid getting hit with the anvil leftover from 'Hunter Heroici'...OTOH show has never been particularly good with subtle...

So if they are going to hit me over the head with the Charlie/Dean parallels, how about working in a reference or two to the parallels between Sam's demon blood/Lucifer struggles and the Mark?

Oh wait, that happened during the Kripke years...

Sorry, I don't mean to be cynical. The episode was perfectly fine for what Supernatural has become under Carver. I just can't help missing how it used to be...

But I will follow Jensen and Jared as Dean and Sam for as long as the show lasts...

[thursdaysisters.livejournal.com]

Yeah I'm missing Sam really hard too, he and Dean had a great rapport last week when it was them verses Metatron, I hope we get more of that when Cain comes onto the scene.

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

I was especially sad to hear that a scene between him and Charlie had been cut

It's a weird thing, kind of like the deleted S9 scene with Jody? Because I enjoy seeing Sam interact with characters I like - but when a character I like gets the chance to realize what's going on with Sam and Dean, they don't, and then I like them significantly less. Sam doesn't need more of the Winchester mythologizing that Charlie's as fond of as anyone, you know? He needs some real talk. Like, I want the show/a supporting character to really pull out the pin on this, but I think Charlie would be far more likely to give us the kind of scene that seems to usually end in someone else informing Sam how he does/should feel, rather than Sam actually airing his own perspective, and I find those really painful.

But yeah, it's still a loss, even if it's less of a frustration than the alternative, and I think that gets at your point about the level of responsiveness to fandom. It's a part of what makes the show special, but it has some costs, too. A supporting character coming out and articulating what the show has IMO been remarkably consistent in demonstrating would lead to a fantrum of epic proportions. IDK, the episode itself was entertaining enough. I'm withholding judgment on the bigger stuff until we've seen the whole season but so far I think it's on the right track.

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

my grade is C- for Sam's gorgeous hair. i feel like Sam is gone too, so i agree with you there. he's a pretty lamp. Charlie... ive been reading around online people saying that she's a Mary Sue and i finally see that. :( it seems that the guest stars are more important than Sam

[cloex-brosluvr.livejournal.com]

I was especially sad to hear that a scene between him and Charlie had been cut
Seriously?

One a different note:
Yes, to both points!

Poll: I chose 'Great' with a side of 'Yay, Charlie and SamnDean!' :)

[spnmonster.livejournal.com]

he's become more of a cardboard cutout character rather than a fully fleshed out one. I'm beginning to think the #ripsamwinchester tag on twitter is true. It's interesting how secondary characters - Claire and now Charlie, have been given more voice than Sam has recently

I only have a moment to comment, but I agree whole heartedly with this statement. I do get kind of a hollow feeling regarding Sam. He's there, but he's more reactive than active much of the time. I miss the Sam who used to actively fight for Dean. I'd like to think that they are saving that for later in the season, but they'll probably have him do things during hiatus that we won't get to see since that is often their MO -- pre-S8 and pre-S10.

Gotta run, sorry.

[zebra363.livejournal.com]

My only real complaint was that we didn't find out what happened between Charlie and Dorothy, or why Charlie seemed not to care very much that she can't see her again. I didn't know until I saw your post that there were deleted promo scenes.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Me, too. Seems the only true horror we get these days is Sam's hair

Bwahaha.. at least it's staaaaarting to improve. :)

And the "sexy lamp" syndrom prevails, doesn't it?

Yep! Seems to be. :(

If the story was to make us feel that way, or if I miss something that used to be there or if it even is one of my own moods today. *shrugs*

Oh you felt it too? It was weird. Like finishing a meal and thinking, "I'm still hungry". Maybe that's why I keep going back for more! :)

xox

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh man, yes. It's freaky...

[galwithglasses.livejournal.com]

As long as they aren't coming from the green sludge Dean was drinking. ;-)

[jessm78.livejournal.com]

I did like this episode more than the last one, but, yeah, I didn't totally LOVE it, and pretty much for the same reasons you didn't. I'll get to that - but first...

Sam looked nice. Jared's hair is settling down (or up...).

YES. So glad it's getting better. And I now can't stop staring at gifs of the scene of Sam running and his hair flying all around. *g*

Anyway, yeah, it's really bugging me that Sam doesn't really have anything important to do. Sure, I love seeing him supporting Dean, but it does seem like the guest characters are more at the forefront. I just want him to be more involved, you know? I even sat with my teeth clenched the moment I saw the promo for this episode at the end of last week's, how it was all "Charlie vs Dean." As for that cut scene, it doesn't really bother me too much because I really don't give a crap about Dorothy or Charlie/Dorothy, but still, the fact that Sam was in it and maybe had a meaningful discussion with her about Dean (or not?) and it was cut does bug me.

I miss