I had an urge to post...

[ash48]

...probably because it's supposed to be an episode reaction. But it's not, because there's ANOTHER GODDAMN HIATUS!! Boo hiss boo!!

So instead, a completely inane and pointless post.

There are things that are said or occur in fanfic regularly enough that it makes me wonder if I actually missed the references in canon. (I have seriously wondered these.... )

1. Did John ever tell his boys to "suck it up"? (or direct reference made to him saying that in the past). Or has Dean ever said that to Sam?

2. Have either of the boys ever run out of hot water while having a shower?

3. Have either of the boys ever called first dibs on the shower? Or said "don't take all the hot water"?

4. Has Dean ever called Sam "Samantha"? Or Princess? (I know Dean's called Sam "Francis" but the others...?)

5. Have we ever seen their first aid kit?

6. Have they ever kissed which has led to amazing sex? yeah...ignore that...

ETA (another one I thought of) Has Dean ever complained about Sam's long hair?

See? Completely inane. (It's been a looooooooong day. Without my show to pick me up. That's my excuse anyway...)

Carry on.

Comments

[si-star-x.livejournal.com]

I wish I could answer these questions, but - the last one... uh... my head!canon says yes. *amused*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hee... ah yes. My head!canon has all sorts of things that are true!

xx

[elliemurasaki.livejournal.com]

I LOST MY COMMENT. GRRR.

Shower things--not in canon, since we've only seen evidence of four showers in canon that I can think of (Bugs, Hell House, Mystery Spot, Lazarus Rising), but it's a reasonable extrapolation.

Frances. FrancES. Once. Right after Sam used the ID of a cop named Frances. Does nobody watch the DVD extras?

First aid--Sam sewed himself up in Mystery Spot and Last Summer, does that count?

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Grrrr... lost comment....

I did watch the DVD extra and knew that was why Dean called Sam Frances (ooh, I wrote Francis didn't I?), but that was the only time I could recall Dean calling Sam something like a girl's name. (Even though it actually wasn't). From an answer below it looks like Dean's been referred to as "princess" twice and Sam once.

And for the time being those two (far too rare moments) of Sam stitching himself up will have to count. I always imagine their first aid kit could have to be HUGE!

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

You do understand why there's a hiatus every March?

They don't want to compete with the March Madness Basketball games. They always found it was a losing effort.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

AH!! Thank you. I had no idea. I've seen "March Madness" referred to around the place but had no idea it was related to that.

:)

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

literally every show goes on hiatus in March. This country seems to have a fixation with College Basketball and they've found that schedules got crazy and there were problems between viewers. They just decided to run repeats in March and pick back up in April (or late May).

Fringe is on a four week hiatus also...

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

To me, most of those are fanfic tropes. And in my personal option, some of those tropes are fairly annoying. They might have been really clever the first time they were used, but now have morphed into tokenism, as a short-cut to ACTUALLY bringing the characters to live.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

That was my feeling. Though a couple of those I really thought I might have missed (like John saying "suck it up").

I find it interesting that those fanfic tropes have been adopted by so many writers. The shower one is particularly popular. I suppose it makes sense, (though I wouldn't have thought hot water would have been an issue in motels) to try and create a real environment for the characters.

xx

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

I suppose it makes sense,(...) to try and create a real environment for the characters.

I would argue that in order to truly create a belivable environment for the characters (or belivable characters) you need to come with new and individual ways of describing those environments rather than falling back on over-used tropes. Beacause in real life, people don't really experience the same kind of thing over and over, and don't say the same thing over and over (unless they actually do, on the show, or they are a game show host). What you have to do as a writer is to think about the actual physical environment and what it would be like. If you want to bring 'shabby motel' to live there are a million ways to go, e.g. strained bed sheets, bugs, faulty lamps, squeeky doors ....People chose showers because it's an established trope and because showers neatly introduce naked bodies into the scenario. ;)

Also would like to appologize for sudden increase in spelling mistakes, my LJ spell check function has been playing up the last few days.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I agree. I do love it when I read something new or different. Or a different take on the trope - especially if the writer twists it somehow. On the other hand, it can sometimes be comforting. Familiar. As if we are all agreeing that this is the norm. I'm sure if Dean ever calls Sam "princess" or complains about his hair, or complains about him taking all the hot water then it'll feel so right we'll probably not notice (or jump for joy *g*).

because showers neatly introduce naked bodies into the scenario.

and for that showers are always welcome...;)

[galwithglasses.livejournal.com]

I have no idea on any of those. There probably needs to be a community like storyfinders or whatwasthatbook to ask the occasional question like this. It's funny how some things in fics show up in so many stories that I've unintentionally turned them into canon in my head.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

See... that's the thing. I think I've read some of that stuff so many times I'm confused what's canon and what's not (though that's probably more to do with my age /o\).

xx

[boggiecat.livejournal.com]

I wish I had your gift with attention to detail. I think I just get all swoony every time Sam comes on the screen and my attention about anything else goes out the window!

I'm glad I saw your post cos I was actually panicking that there was an ep last night and I'd missed it, cos on superwiki it says the next ep is ep 17, on 17 March I think, but I've only seen to ep 15, repo man. I think I heard ep 16 was going to be on 10th march, but now superwiki is saying next ep (17)is on 17th March.... I think. If that makes any sense at all....

just ignore me, I'm getting withdrawals from spn and need a fix, so might just go watch season one again!

woot!

boggie

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hee... in this case it was just boredom. Or the need to talk about the show because I'm missing it. :))

Yeah, I don't think it's back until the 17th. It was earlier, but then they moved it later. BOO!

Oh and I get the withdrawal thing.

xx

[chemm80]

I'm pretty sure the answer to all of those questions is no.

I'm also always annoyed about the "using all the hot water" thing. I've stayed in some pretty crappy motels, but I've NEVER been in one that ran out of hot water. And that's when our whole family has been snow skiing all day and we're standing under the spray trying to warm up. Just doesn't happen.

I think most of these fanfic tropes were originally just extrapolations from what we've seen. It's just simple logic, and since we're all watching the same show, we tend to draw the same conclusions. Ex. John telling the boys to suck it up--we know he took them hunting and "raised them like warriors," and John himself referred to himself as their "drill sergeant." Or Dean calling Sam "Francis" (although if you watch the deleted scenes on the DVD, that was the name on Sam's fake ID, not just a reference to Sam's penchant for fancy coffee). I don't think we've ever seen their first aid kit, and in fact I'm pretty sure the first time we ever saw them suturing a wound was in Mystery Spot, but I know I read (and wrote) fanfic where they stitched up each other (and John) long before that aired.

I think the early fic writers expanded on these, and then the imitators came along and made it commonplace.

I think we think too much about this stuff. :D

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure the answer to all of those questions is no.

Yeah, I thought as much. But after reading some of this stuff so many times I felt sure I'd missed some of them.


The hot water one is always curious to me. I've always thought motels and hotels had an endless supply of hot water. Unless each room has it's own (little) hot water tank.

I imagined they were just extrapolations. I'm curious how some of it has become SO commonplace in fanfic that it almost becomes comfortable. Boys return from a hunt and one takes all the hot water... Another one I just thought of was Dean complaining about the length of Sam's hair. I can't recall if Dean has ever mentioned the length of Sam's hair.

I think we think too much about this stuff.

HA!! I know I do! Especially when I want an ep on my telly. :DD

Thanks hun.
xx

(Oh, and I just finished listening to Hail Mary. LOVED it!! The reading is PERFECT! <33)

[chemm80]

Another one I just thought of was Dean complaining about the length of Sam's hair. I can't recall if Dean has ever mentioned the length of Sam's hair.

I was thinking about that, too, along with Dean calling Sam a "girl" or "princess" etc. I honestly can't recall him saying that directly to Sam, although you see it ALL the time in fic. Maybe it's more of the attitude, especially Dean's scorn for emotional displays..."no chick flick moments"..."I'll lay my head gently on your shoulder"..."we'll hug and talk about our feelings"..."oh man, we're not going to have to hug now, are we?" and so on. And realistically Sam was much more in touch with his feelings in Seasons 1 and 2 than Dean, who chose to express his anger and grief by beating the shit out of the Impala. Even in S4, Sam was still trying to get Dean to open up about what happened to him in Hell. After he went to Hell, himself, however, he had hardened considerably.

Oh my, listen to me go on. :D When I mostly just came back here to say thank you for the lovely comment on the podfic. So, thanks a million, sweetie. I'm so glad you enjoyed.

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

I don't think Dean has called Sam 'princess' (or Samantha), but a bar tender once did and Dean has been called 'princess' twice, not sure why Sam gets the tag more often in fic. As for the others, mostly fanon I'm pretty sure, the only other thing would be Dean commenting on 'cold showers' in that season 7 episode with the weird sandwiches and the semi-functioning bathroom in the squat house for Time after Time.

Edited to add - Dean does actually say "Get in the car, princess" but he's talking to Kali and not Sam - or at least I think he is...

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ah... so they have been called "princess", but not by each other. Cool. I was sure I'd heard the term, but wasn't sure if it was from them or not.

And yeah... I suspected that a lot of it is fanon. I don't actually mind it, it's just curious to me how many write about it.

<33

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

It is curious and amazing fascinating to log these fanon bits of character and situation that seems to become an almost established theme in a lot of fics. I think most of the time it's very much because those things ring true to so many and then when something happens in the show that totally contradicts fanon it's like there's eruptions in the force!

Episodes that show flash backs usually run the risk of this, but eventually even those contradictions get their own explanations and fanon stumbles through it and works again. The one that still sticks a big spanner in the works for me is "After School Special" there are parts of that episode I refuse to acknowledge AT ALL!

The hot water running out always has confused me, like you I think of endless hot water in hotels/motels, but I don't know the USA, so I've never really questioned it, calling first dibs on a shower though is something I think fits perfectly with the way they live and were brought up. Where the Samantha/Princess came from I have no idea, but it fits with how Dean interacts with Sam in the first season - no chick flick moments, hugging it out etc. I should actually do some research on whether he actually refers to Sam as a "girl" or "sister" as those are terms often used too. As with the "sasquatch" thing, I know there's the "overgrown" jibe and the description of Sam being so much taller, but how many there are I have no idea...



Have I told you how much I love your brain on hiatus?

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I actually find it quite comforting that there's this acceptance of what things might be like outside of canon. And when it keeps occurring in fic it serves to reinforce that this is how it is. :)

Ooh... I'm curious now about the big spanner in the works in AAS for you.....???? Personally I don't recall any moments of WTF for me...(except the motw resolution).

Sam's height has been mentioned a few times now. I don't think it was referred to at all in S1 (might be wrong...). I think Dean first referred to Sam as sasquatch (and therefore his height) in Playthings ( again, I might be wrong as I'm going purely from memory...). Hee... I love that gif..:))

Have I told you how much I love your brain on hiatus?

Hee! On man.. wait to you see my S4 motel picspam. Now THAT has taken some brain power.... (and here I was thinking it would be quicker than making a vid..../o\ *g*)

*smish*

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm waiting and waiting for that S4 picspam - I LOVE them, can only imagine how much work they are, just sourcing caps drives me nuts...

AAS? Simple answer was casting. Not falling out with Brock as such, there was some physical similarity, but honestly he looked about 8 years older than Colin Ford's Sam and the whole thing just jarred. But hey, no worries.

I've been whiling away the hiatus over at spn_bigpretzel - such a lot of fun reading all those funny fics, old and new, it's certainly been a big break from all the angst and you know how much I love my angst and hurt and comfort, but every now and then I love to read about silly adorable boys and that place? Full of 'em! And no spoilers! Wheeee!!!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I have to admit I have become quite obsessed with the damn motels.../o\

Re sourcing the caps. At first I made them myself. Found them, capped them, coloured them etc and then decided that the quality was shit and went searching for HD quality. I found them (yay) but it then meant doing that all over again. I think I might need to be checked in somewhere...(maybe the same place that Sam will need to be checked into if this hallucinations keep up........please... *g*)

Oh..ok. Yeah. I can see that re Brock and Colin. It seems that casting Dean has a youth has been a problem, where they got it pretty much right with Colin.

And YAY! I've seen that comm pimped but I haven't had a chance to check it out. Looks like I need to. :)

<3

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Aww... *hugs* - sounds like a bit of a nightmare in your quest, but don't get checked in anywhere, no wifi... *G*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

No wifi!!

HA!!

Can't get checked in then because it would drive me nuts...:DD

[feather-touch.livejournal.com]

Don't hold back about how you really feel about hiatus.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hee....

They are my most favourite thing in the world. Can't you tell?

xx

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

This has been an exhausting week for me and it would've been nice to be able to watch a new ep for a pick-up... I'll have to think of something else now to re-energise myself. Such a bummer. :/

And to your questions: I have no idea. LOL

Nice rainbow-farting-unicorn icon though... ;)

xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I know! Such a bummer.... (it really does serve as a pick me up doesn't it?!)

Hee... I love that icon. You know, when I was naming it (in my user pics) I meant to type "unicorn rainbow "... instead I typed "unicorn rainbutt". Um...hee.. makes sense so I kept it. Makes me smile when I post it. :))

[zebra363.livejournal.com]

It feels like an eternity and we are only halfway through!

I spent part of the day reviewing the transcripts for other reasons, so I checked on your questions while I was at it.

1. No. "Suck it up" is said by Madison in Heart, Ruby in No Rest for the Wicked, the Trickster in Changing Channels and Tessa in Appointment in Samarra, but that's all.

2. No.

3. No. In Defending Your Life, Dean suggests that Sam take the first shower.

4. No. As someone's already noted above, Dean gets called Princess twice, by Jo in No Exit and by Bobby in Lucifer Rising, and Sam gets called Princess by a bartender in Sin City.

5. Don't think so.

6. That's coming up in a future episode... I hope...

7. Don't think so.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

1. No. "Suck it up" is said by Madison in Heart, Ruby in No Rest for the Wicked, the Trickster in Changing Channels and Tessa in Appointment in Samarra, but that's all.

Oh wow! I love this. Thank you. <33

3. Oh yay... at least there is some reference to shower taking.

6. = hee... wishful thinking...

Thanks so much for this. <33

I have a little something I need to check with you...I'll pm.
xx

[elsewhere91.livejournal.com]

...probably because it's supposed to be an episode reaction. But it's not, because there's ANOTHER GODDAMN HIATUS!! Boo hiss boo!!

I KNOW...Not fair!! But two more weeks - we can make it!

It really fascinates me about fanfiction and how some fans accept what's in fanon to be canon and that's why i have a love/hate relationship with fanfiction.

I think there are some talented writers and beautful written stories in supernatural which add a whole new depth to the characters and the story (as unfortunatley show is only for only 40 mins - boo)

But i also have problems when some fans think that fanon is canon and they know more about the characters and the show then the people who write the actual episodes - i know that the supernatural writers aren't perfect and do make mistakes -it's just that most of the time there are some fans complaining about charcaters being ooc or basically not up to the standards they have been built up to in fanfiction. - wow sorry that sounds bitchy, sorry, i'm having some issues with fandom.

Also my spellchecker is playing up so there is probably a lot of mispelt words - sorry.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

2 weeks! We can do it!!

It fascinates me how fanfic and canon and perceptions of characters work. There are indeed some incredible works and I am in awe of anyone who can write. I love that fic can fill in the gaps, or create histories or give us fix-its. I am also intrigued that certain tropes exist in fic that seem well accepted (like the ones I mentioned above).

But.. yes. I suspect writers can sometimes get so caught up in how they think the characters should be that they don't accept how they are actually presented on the show. Which is why fans become somewhat disillusioned in the show maybe (I can only speculate of course..).

Ooh.. you are the second person to mention the spellchecker. Maybe LJ is playing up...

xx

[reliand.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure I've seen number 6. That is definitely canon bleeding into fanfic :) I'm not sure about the rest though. How very odd that though it might not be there, it might be implied to the point where we automatically assume. Makes me want to do a rewatch.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh man... number 6. That would be something wouldn't it? ;)

How very odd that though it might not be there, it might be implied to the point where we automatically assume.

Yes. I find that curious also. I think I've read something so many times that I assume it to be true. Or something we've seen on the show.

:)

[riotgrrlhotel.livejournal.com]

I know I used the shower one (Sam telling Dean/Cas not to use all the hot water) in one of my very few fics. It does seem odd we haven't seen it in canon though...we know the guys like their showers..

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I would LOVE to see it in canon. It would be so cool because it would feel so right after reading it.

:)

[yourlibrarian]

I've always wondered about the hot water issue. I've stayed in cheap hotels over the years and hot water has never been a problem. I always wonder why no one discusses water pressure instead.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ah yes.. not water pressure would indeed be an issue! Maybe we'll start seeing that mentioned instead of them running out one day..

xx