Top Brother Moments in Season 7

[ash48]

I am totally wearing my heart on my sleeve here, but stuff it! I love the SamnDean bromance in the Show and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I've been thinking about the broments in S7 and thought I'd share.



Ok, so - we didn't get any hugs during the season but we did get some delicious brother moments nonetheless. AND we got one of the best bromance episodes in the whole series (imho).

Top Bro Moments in Season Seven (in chronological order)

I'm glad to be able to start with the episode that had the MOST broments in it. It was CHOCK FULL! This may well be up there with the A Very Supernatural Christmas as my all time favourite bromance episode. (Not quite...but close).

1. Stone Number One
(7.02 Hello Cruel World)



Dean: Hey. I am your flesh-and-blood brother, okay? I’m the only one who can legitimately kick your ass in real time. You got away. We got you out, Sammy. Believe in that! Believe me, okay? You gotta believe me. You gotta make it stone number one and build on it.

*happy, happy sigh* Such fabulous dialogue - Dean not only pulls Sam off the ledge but asks him to believe and trust in him. Probably my favourite scene of the whole season.

I also love the acknowledgement that pain in hell feels different to the pain of real life. Dean's own experience helped Sam through his - and I rather love that.

2. Nurse Dean



Dean checking Sam's stitches fills my heart with glee. We don't get much h/c on the Show so I need to wallow in the moments we do get (not that there's much comfort here, but there is caring and er...::koff:: hand holding). We ALSO had Dean giving Sam food and drink...*happy swoon*

3. You Got to Carry Me



Dean: Come on, I’m the one with the broken leg, you got to carry me. Sam!

Not only do we have Dean desperate for Sam to be ok (*hearts*) but we have the acknowledgement that they use each other to support themselves. And yay....unconscious!Sam, broken legged!Dean. I remember thinking that's all we'd get in this ep, but then they had AN AMBULANCE SCENE!!! \o/

4. Stay With Me



Dean: Sam, stay with me, you hear?

I thought I'd only get this in fanfic. But....Yay show! THANK YOU! Desperate!Dean, Seizing!Sam, "Stay with me"! *happy fangirl*

5. Sam defends Dean
(7.04 Defending Your Life)



Sam: But he -- he has the right to an attorney. Doesn't he?
Osiris: Huh.
Sam: Let me defend him.

Be still my heart. Just Sam saying "Let me defend him" makes me weak at the knees (or maybe that's chained!Dean...). These boys and what they do for each other...<33 (though I expect nothing less!).

6. I Don't Like Lying to You
(7.07 The Mentalists)



Looking back, this episode had lots of bro moments. They were having a lovers brothers quarrel and so many elements in the episode were comments on their relationship - right down to the sibling museum. There was that lovely moment when the guy in the museum talked to Dean about the Fox sisters...Sometimes, one's true gift is taking care of others. There were some nice parallels between Sam and Dean during this scene. My favourites are Sam trying not to smile at Dean's antics in the cafe and the speech at the end.

Dean: Maybe it's 'cause I don't like lying to you. You know, it doesn't feel right.

I know many felt that Sam shouldn't have given in so easily but I think that is part of their dynamic and Sam did call Dean on his drinking and sleepless nights. Dean's confession that it was him lying to Sam that caused him all the grief was a good broment. It ended in smiles all round and it was nice to see them back on even footing.


7. Did We Get Licorice?
(7.10 Death's Door)



Dean: All right, scoot, jerkface. Show your elders some respect.
Sam: You scoot, asshat.
Dean: Did we get licorice?
Sam: No, we did not get licorice. We got good snacks. Licorice is disgusting.
Dean: I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand that, uh, Mr. "Peanut Butter and Banana Sandwich."
Sam: I stand by that sandwich. Nobody likes licorice. It's--it's made of dirt.
Dean: It is a classic movie food. It's right up there with popcorn.
Sam: Popcorn?
Dean: Yeah.
Sam: You're out of your mind.
Dean: What, it's like little chewy pieces of heaven.

This little exchange is a little chewy piece of heaven that's for sure. I love outsider POV and it's great that we get to see how Bobby sees the boys. I love the "did WE get..." they are such a married couple. (and that's not even a reference to wincest - it's just how they are. They've been together THAT long!)

8. Communicating Through Time
(7.12 Time after Time)



Oh man... just the act of Dean carving "Sam" into the skirting makes my heart skip a beat. It reminds me of them carving their initials into the Impala in Swan Song. <333 And him lying down in the exact same spot as Sam...? \o/ *dolphin noises*



Sam's face when he finds Dean's letter is priceless. For all Sam's badass-ness he's just a little bro needing his big bro. SO sweet.

9. Don't get killed.
(7.13 The Slice Girls)



Sam: Look... Dean, the thing is, tonight... It almost got you killed. Now, I don't care how you deal. I really, really don't. But just don't – don't get killed.

That's it. Right there. Neither of them want the other do die. It would be far too much to bear (I still can't believe they decided to leave "don't die" out of the finale. It would have tied in so beautifully to this moment. Let us know that it was written and therefore the sentiment was there.) A quiet moment of desperation.

10. Sam gets Dean a slinky
(7.14 Plucky Pennywhistle's Magic Menagarie)



Sam: By the way, to celebrate...
Dean: What?
Dean: No!
Sam: Yes.

AWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!! Sam actually TOOK TIME to get Dean a slinky. HE KNEW \o/ And HA!...Dean got Sam a clown. :D He's such an awesome big brother. *g* (yay Dean's face!)

While I'm on this episode there's this little moment that is just toooo adorable to not mention...

11. Saammy...?



It's the way Dean says "Sammy". He's having a little moment with Sam about clowns and the love, familiarity and fondness in that one word makes my heart swell. In fact their whole conversation here is adorable - "Don't have one of your episodes.." (and how gorgeous is Dean in this cap! *swoon*)


12. Big Brother's Probably Dead.
(7.16 Repo Man)



Hallucifer: Oh, no. That's every cellphone Dean's got. One of them should've picked up, right? Big brother's probably dead.
Sam: Shut up.
Hallucifer: He said "shut up" to me.

This may seem like a strange choice but if anyone EVER doubts how much Dean means to Sam it's right here. He breaks his resolve to ignore Lucifer when Dean is in peril. Lucifer hit a nerve - Dean.

13. Oh, You Guys are Having a Moment.
(7.17 Born Again identity)




I admit that I would have liked a few more "moments", but the moments that did exist were nice. Dean's quiet desperation throughout the whole episode was evident - him bursting into the doctor's office, promising Sam he'd find an answer, multitude of phone calls trying to find an answer. Looking at this cap make me realise that Dean was fighting his feeling of failure. Seeing Sam fall apart, knowing that he risked that when he returned his soul. :(

There were also a couple of other little moments in the episode: When Sam was about to be electroshocked he muttered "my brother..." and there was that little moment when Dean ran around the bed to Sam after Cas took away the hallucination and yelled "Sam". AND Dean's declaration at the end of the episode that they have no friends. (they only have each other...)

14. We're just THAT comfortable with each other...
(7.19 Of Grave Importance)



Confirmation that the bathroom door stays open during showers so they can discuss cases. Just saying! (and yeah...any excuse to use a cap of wet haired!Dean)

15. Shut up Sam
(7.20 The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragon Tattoo)



This episode was the height of the two of them working together so fabulously. Sam laughing at Dean when he was seducing the guard, Dean teasing Sam about knowing Harry Potter and them both agreeing that they'd go in if there was any trouble.

I maintain that this season was about rebuilding their relationship. It needs to be back on solid ground just so they can mess with it once again. ;) (I hope! It's weird - when we had all the angst all I wanted was for them to be good again and now that they're good again I want the angst back....)


A mixed season. Perhaps not as brave (soulless!Sam) or as angsty (every season so far!) as some seasons but it had some quality moments. My fav eps would have to be "Slash Fiction" (homage to Pulp Fiction and Natural Born Killers FTW! Levi!Sam and Levi!Dean were as hot as hell and the writing was spot on...) and "Girl with the Dungeons and Dragon Tattoo" (entertaining with fun new OC, brothers in a van, split frames and leverage style story telling...). Both written by Robbie Thompson. He also wrote Time After Time, which I also loved. He's definitely a keeper! (PLEASE MORE!) Some other favs were Hello Cruel World, The Mentalists, Death's Door and Sam's moments in Born Again Identity. In fact, there weren't many I didn't like.



We may not have had the heart wrenching angst or overt bro!moments in S7 but the overall feeling of them working as a unit, figuring out their trust issues and demonstrating their CONSTANT LOVE FOR EACH OTHER made this season enjoyable for me.

I may have missed some moments (or yours might be different) so feel free to let me know!

Screencaps from homeofthenutty. Colouring and cropping by me. Thanks to el1ie for the twice over and suggestions. (though I've tinkered a lot since the last look /o\) <3

Comments

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'm curious what you think about them cutting the bromance out of the season finale ...

Hey.

You do realise that asking me this means I will rant on a bit yeah? Eek... just skip if it's too much..

I have to admit that when I heard that they cut out the "don't die" scene from the finale it saddened and annoyed me. I really can't understand the decision to do that considering how much it would have meant for us to see it and also that is was also in the promo. It (still) makes no sense to me. So yeah...not very impressed I have to say.

As for the and giving it all to Cas/Dean?

That's a bit trickier to answer. To be honest, I try not to see the Cas and Dean scenes as Cas/Dean. I mean, I know it can be taken like that (and it is often played like that) but I try to see it for what it is. I see Cas as just another one of their allies (like any other OC) and try not to see him as taking anything away from the brothers. No matter how much Cas loves or becomes BFF with Dean he can never take away their brother bond. And actually never has. Ruby did more damage to the bond than any other OC. I'm not a Cas fan, but I'm trying to find some good there as I know he'll be around for a bit.

But, I know what you mean. Dean and Cas had more meaningful scenes than Sam and Dean did (and yeah, that stung a bit) but I'm trying not to let that spoil the overall enjoyment of it for me. The fact that they separated the brothers at the end gives me hope that they will continue exploring their relationship in S8. (and I am way to excited about the prospect of what they could do with that....)

(told you I'd waffle on...)

And if you will still bear with me.... The Amy moment.

I'm sorry to hear it this made you stop watching. It was indeed a difficult moment but as with any major strife between the boys this meant there was more stuff to explore between them. I think this issue drove much of the opening of the season and is what made it as powerful as it was. Once this issue was cleared up and the boys started to rebuild the trust we ended up with much less angst and something many fans complained about. Looking back it was the only issue that existed between them for the entire season. Hence my feeling that the season was all about rebuilding their relationship. Of ALL the seasons this is the one where they are most comfortable, most honest and most in tune with each other. The result? A season with less drive. Without issues between them we just have two brothers hunting together. I'm not complaining because it's something I've wanted since S4, but it does mean there's less urgency and emotional investment.

I will say I disagree that their distrust was a theme of the season. In fact I feel it was completely opposite. After the Amy moment it was all about rebuilding and finding that trust again (the Amy moment being the catalyst). They were certainly closer than they were during S4-S6. I think that's why I ended up enjoying it so much. Also, Cas was only in about 4 eps - so out of 23 that's not so many (for me...).

/o\ Did I say too much?! Seems like I had some feels about that question..

<3

[phx69.livejournal.com]

What I try to remember with Cas is his defense of Sam to Lucifer and his saying Sam was his friend. That was Cas's choice - he chose to call Sam his friend. His relationship with Dean started as more a duty. Cas had no choice in that part. And I take tiny things like him insisting on Sam having a sandwich when Sam didn't take it at first.

However, unfortunately, Dean tends to have more friends than Sam in this series anyway. Dean and Garth connected; Dean and Bobby connected = Sam really only connected truly with Dean. He is a lot more emotionally guarded and isolated then people give him credit for.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Can I just jump in here to say that I think the Sam and Cas friendship is developing into something interesting. I love it most when it's about all three of them - and I think we saw that more toward the end of the season. The moments between Cas and Sam were as strong as between Dean and Cas. I loved Cas's genuine apology and their chat afterwards.

I love your observation that Cas chose to call Sam "friend", especially as he has become Sam friend over time. It's grown from a genuine respect.

He is a lot more emotionally guarded and isolated then people give him credit for.

We often think of Sam being "connected" to people because of his empathetic nature, but it's true that there are not many people outside Dean that he genuinely connects with (now). I rather love that because it gives his character another dimension and another issue now that he's separated from Dean...

[phx69.livejournal.com]

I do think it would have been more intersting to have popped Cas and SAM into purgatory together. We do not get to see them working together - Dean is always there. I think the writers are bowing to the Cas and Dean shippers in doing that, personally, instead of exploring the fairly uncharted Sam and Cas relationship. We have already been hit over the head with how special their connection is by the show numerous times. And yes, I know Cas is still working to get back into Dean's good graces, however, that was coming - I do not think they needed to go this Cas and Dean buddy soldiers way.

I will be expressly disappointed if we see Dean and Cas coming back with an even stronger connection to the exclusion of Sam again - like we were getting pieces of in season five (?) or was it four (I get them mixed up because I largely disliked both). THAT would be a mistake, I think, because while there are a lot of very vocal Cas and Dean fans, MOST fans (when you count actual numbers) are Dean AND Sam fans. Cas is just an interesing re-occuring character. The problem is the majority is not as vocal as the few.

Anyways - that is one of the things I did not like about the finale. Being hit over the head, again, with a Dean and Cas pairing, regardless of Cas just disappearing like that. We all know he did that to take a look around.

I personally hope we don't have to watch Sam struggling by himself for very long. We have seen him broken so often as he constantly loses Dean and that is too heartbreaking. I hope they are reunited early on the screen. And I hope we are given some reason to at least think Dean might be equally worried about his brother. Just becuase Dean is in purgatory doesn't mean Sam is in any less danger. But - at the end - Dean didn't even ask if Sam was there. That bugged me. I would have thought that would his first question, after 'where are we?'

[ash48.livejournal.com]

:koff:; I've actually seen some spoilers about the beginning of S8. I'm might be posting a speculation post in a few days so if you don't mind being spoiled a bit you can take a peek.

Let's just say it pertains to one of your hopes here...;)

I'm trying not to get tooooo worried about what they plan to do in the future (yet). If it looks like they are going the route of the Cas and Dean show (which I highly doubt) then I might start getting worried. I maintain that even though Cas has played a part in being a friend to Dean he hasn't come between them. Maybe taken away some screen time (though no more than Bobby I think..), but I'm thinking the Js are needing some screen time off and this might have been a way of doing it....maybe.

And I'm absolutely sure Dean will be worried about his brother. When is he ever not? But I'm sure he'd be pleased to know Sam isn't in Purgatory with him. As much as he'd be worried about Sam being left on Earth alone, he knows he's a capable hunter and can look after himself. I'm sure he's also hoping Sam will get him out of there.... (but yeah, it'd be good to be able to SEE that worry).

[deans-fetish.livejournal.com]

Dean and Sam have always traded off and on with their personality traits.

In season one, Sam was the more open brother and Dean was more closed off and only relating on the physical level with people. Other than that everything was purely business. However we get to season two and he begins to lower those walls a bit, getting closer with Bobby and Ellen and even Jo (*gags a bit at the Jo idea* Personal opinion.)

Anyway, then in season three Sam begins to close himself off. He knows he has to, he is losing the one person he has always been able to rely on. Dean is going to hell and there isn't anything he can do to stop it. The trickster even told him that, pushed that point home with Sam. And then in season four Sam is totally withdrawn and closed off to all (even Dean when he returns) expect Ruby. Call it brain washing if you wish, or her being his drug dealer, but she was his most important being now. He was blind to everything but that next hit. Even Jared said that in that season he had to study drug junkies to get Sam's character right.

As we go into Season five, Dean is closed off once more from how he was in season four, because he, as he always does, blamed himself for what he did in hell and starting the breaking of the seals. Sorry, but I gotta tell ya, if it's been me given that offer, my ass would'a jumped off the table with the first offer. Forget thirty years into it. Pfft! "Dean strong like bull", if you ask me. And then we get to season six and after losing Sam, Dean is wide open again and yet Sam isn't...of course we learn why later. But then once Sam gets his soul back I think that he opens himself up a tad more than he had been...we don't notice it as much because this is not the boy from Season one anymore, he has lived through his brother, the one man he has looked up to all his life, having died and left him totally and utterly alone. Hence the reasons that I see Sam as not being the Sam we remember and wish to compare him to.

As for Dean, the man has been to hell and back. The little brother he has been charged with taking care of since he was flippin' four years old has went to hell. Been tortured and served up raw to Lucifer himself. He has this weighing heavy on him. I know without a shadow of a doubt, had he been able to take that cup from Sam, he would have without a second thought. He has seen the people he loves die time and again, especially Sam. All this weighs so heavily upon Dean's shoulders and his heart. They both have all this shit piled on top of them and yet fandom wants to see the carefree boys of Season one again. NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN. If it did, (to coin Yoda) they would lose all which they have fought and suffered [for].

As for Castiel and Dean, I get so freakin' livid when I hear that fandom thinks that Cas is trying to take time away from Sam. That is so not true. Which is why the writers have tossed in lines like Cas calling Sam his friend and the hug that almost was. It is why Sam has muttered that he still believes in Cas. It is supposed to be Team Free Will. Three against the world. Don't try to separate them into either Dean and Sam or Dean and Cas or Sam and Cas. To do so is tearing down what it is that they have went through. Besides, don't begrudge the boys a new friend. They've lost everyone else. Allow them Cas. ...and Meg too. :) (I am totally wishing and hoping and praying for that one to be honest to goodness friend and not a backstabbing...*grumblegrumble* like Ruby.)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

They both have all this shit piled on top of them and yet fandom wants to see the carefree boys of Season one again. NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN.

Butting here but yes, I agree. I don't think we can ever get those S1 boys again because they have been through so much. It would just not be right and I honestly believe fandom would cry foul. In fact, many already are because there wasn't enough drive or maybe angst this season.

I think there's a difference between "returning to carefree S1 boys" (even though they were weighed down by a lot even then) and them working well together and discovering what it is to be brothers again. I think they can definitely have that (need that even) and still carry the enormous weight and experience they both have since their Hell (and everything else!)experiences.

I think S7 did a good job of showing them dealing with everything AND getting on and doing the job (as they have to).

I'm excited to see what angle they take with S8. I'm hoping their relationship stays in the place they found in S7 but with added new angst in a way we may not have considered yet.

Good character recap btw. :)

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

I love your observation that Cas chose to call Sam "friend", especially as he has become Sam friend over time. It's grown from a genuine respect.

*sigh* - I really, really hope I can come to looking at things this way soon. I know I'm going to need something to hang onto for how things will go next year. I'm trying hard to put the things Castiel has done to Sam behind me, but honestly my anger stems from Castiel repeatedly telling Dean to leave Sam's soul tormented in the cage as Lucifer's chew toy for all eternity, and that still burns white hot. Then the wall, done with such disregard to them both and it's hard, you know?

I know it's not charitable of me and irrational,and Castiel has now changed - again - and is seeking forgiveness and redemption for dealing with Crowley behind their backs, destroying Sam's sanity, spending time as a god and wiping out the garrisons of angels and wreaking havoc on earth by releasing the Leviathan - but that in a way I think is why some fans are getting disgruntled, it's not so much that Castiel gets too much screen time, or comes between the brothers or is Dean's favourite, that's obviously and logically not true, It's more that for some while now, they write far more complex stories, character movement and emotion for this one minor character than they do for the brothers.

The brothers have been pretty much stuck all season and Castiel is a handy target..

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey..

Castiel repeatedly telling Dean to leave Sam's soul tormented in the cage as Lucifer's chew toy for all eternity, and that still burns white hot. Then the wall, done with such disregard to them both and it's hard, you know?

Ah yes.... that. I wonder, looking back, how much that might have had to do with where Cas's mind was at the time. I don't really know (and you know me...trying to find good reasons for all this), but Cas had another agenda and maybe he thought keeping Sam out of the picture would help him get there. *shrugs* I can't remember now at what point we saw Cas really change. I also wonder if he was genuinely worried for Sam and what it would do to him if his soul was returned. I always felt that he never really understood what it meant to have the love that they boys do, so making a suggestion like that would have been more logical than deliberately made prolong Sam's suffering or knowing what that actually meant to Dean. Ack... I really don't know. And the wall breaking was at the height of Cas's megalomania - that was definitely a means to an end. He did say he'd fix Sam afterwards I think.

they write far more complex stories, character movement and emotion for this one minor character than they do for the brothers.

I think I might see this as opposite and possibly the reason I struggle with Cas. I think they've struggled to know what to do with him and his character has been written a bit all over the place. Hmmm... maybe it is complexity but I see more as a muddle.

I find it very hard to connect with him and I think that's because I just don't know what to make of him. His character seems to change so much and I've never felt like I've ever really come to grips with him.

What he did to Sam (and in turn Dean) will always be on my mind and I find it extremely difficult to feel compassion for him because of it - which I think we are supposed to. (?) *shrugs* I just don't know. I know he made mistakes (like Sam did) so I figure it's about a road to redemption for him now. In short though I really don't care enough about Cas's journey. I WANT to, but it just doesn't interest me as much as Sam and Dean's. (but I totally get that others do connect and care where Cas goes...)

It's tricky - I think there are many forces at work in the issues Cas brings to the story and the Show. I feel reassured by the fact that Sam and Dean will always be brothers and we now seem to be past their insecurities with other. I'm hopeful they will be able to continue to find stories that show us their brotherhood. My hope is that they can work Cas into that story without it being separate from it.

Wow! I waffled on. Sorry about that. (few wines.. Saturday night...Show chat...)

xox

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

"I think I might see this as opposite and possibly the reason I struggle with Cas. I think they've struggled to know what to do with him and his character has been written a bit all over the place. Hmmm... maybe it is complexity but I see more as a muddle."

Absolutely and I think I probably wasn't really clear on what I was getting at - because I do agree with you on all your points here, I don't really care about his redemption or his motivations and I'll never feel compassion because of those deeds, it's nothing like how I can see and understand why the brothers have done the (sometimes dirty) things they do.. But what I really meant to say is, I look at it all, this muddle (I agree muddle is a much better word) and think back on all the big points of the last couple of seasons and they all involve Cas. His character, think of it as you will, love or disdain, but it moved, it moved the plots along - maybe badly, I supposed again that depends on how you feel about him and I know you know how I feel, but things happened around Cas.

Who got Sam out of the cage (and let's not talk about getting Dean out of hell too) , who plotted with Crowley to open purgatory, who raised Samuel Winchester, who was running a war in heaven, who found out that Sam was missing a soul, who was collecting souls as a power source (and if you ask me, I'd say Cas still only sees humans as batteries) who destroyed Sam's fragile wall, who opened purgatory, who became god, who killed all the angels, who became Leviathan, who healed (or maybe, part healed) Sam, who killed Dick, who landed up in purgatory.

Meanwhile, back at the Winchesters B plot - nothing much changed - Sam had no soul and Dean worried, Dean had and lost a kid and a girlfriend somewhere along the line, Dean drank, Sam found his memories and didn't go crazy. How wasn't Sam crazy? Dean wasn't worried - someone else could deal with the apocalypse. Sam went crazy and Dean worried, Dean had and lost a kid somewhere along the line, all their friends died, and Dean took to the bottle like mother's milk - Sam wasn't crazy and saved the profit. Dean got blasted to purgatory! Whoooo - something new - oh wait, with Cas. Oversimplified I know, but actually from where I'm sitting? They didn't really get to do much in the way of driving the seasons at all.

I'll be interested in reading a few spoilers, up until they actually start filming I think I'll need to, at least get some idea that the writers are going to put the Winchesters right in the thick of everything again, throw them the new situations, use new characters to reveal new things about them. Then I expect I'll go into hiding, cross my fingers and hope for the best - same thing I've done for years, nothing changes does it?

yeah, I've waffled far too much for a Saturday afternoon now too!

[big-heart-june.livejournal.com]

YES TO ALL OF THIS. ♥

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*hearts* \o/

[katiki7.livejournal.com]

My trick to keep liking Cas is to remind myself I liked Cas just fine in seasons 4-6 when I was staying out of the fandom. It's only when I rejoined fandom this year and saw all the fanwank about Cas that it tainted the character for me.

They seem to be making strides towards developing more of a relationship between Sam and Cas. It was Sam who reached out to Cas at the beginning of the season. And I loved the talk they had, when Sam let Cas know he understood how Cas went wrong, because Sam took a trip down the well-intentioned road to Hell himself. The two now actually have a lot in common. I hope they continue in that direction.

[stormcloude]

No no, I wanted you to ramble! That's why I asked. I think I've got almost the exact opposite opinion as you so I was wondering if I'd missed something.

I guess my problem is with Singer saying that Sam had the emotional storyline all this year and that it wasn't going to be like that next year, combined with them bringing Castiel back and making the end of the season all about him and Bobby, and not the Winchesters (at all-- to the point where they cut out what little there was for the brother fans). Castiel may have only been in 4 episodes, but he played a HUGE role in the end of the season and it's apparent he's going to be there next year too. So I don't see much hope for future brotherly plots. I mean why else would they cut out the only brotherly moments in the finale of the whole year and then send Dean off with Castiel? And Carver is the one who wrote the Rapture, Family Remains and In the Beginning, all Dean and Cas-centric episodes.


The Amy thing and trust-- I didn't see the brothers building trust between them. I mean Dean never apologized or admitted he could have been wrong about Amy. It was his way or else. And then when Sam did confide in him about his problems with Lucifer, Dean's response was "go to sleep in the car." And that was it. Not much support given to Sam at all, after Dean's "make me stone one" speech. I just didn't see much trust rebuilt there at all. I guess I'll have to take your word about them being in tune and honest with each other at the end of the season. I didn't see it in the episodes I watched. Also, there weren't many issues between them in seasons 1-3 and those were actually my favorite. I take issue with people saying that the Winchesters have to be against each other to make interesting TV. I like the us-against-the-world they had going on. Not Winchester against Winchester. I hated S4 so much.


I guess our differences boil down to the fact that I don't have the same hope and belief in tptb as you do (They've let me down way too often) and I'm probably looking for something different from the show than you are. I'm glad you're still enjoying it though. You're one of the few people on my flist still squeeing. ;)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I actually love discussing the show with people see it differently because I think there's a chance to see different perspectives and understand, perhaps, what's not working (or IS working) for some.

Singer saying that Sam had the emotional storyline all this year and that it wasn't going to be like that next year

ACK! He said that? I saw his quote recently about S8 but didn't know he said that. Um... that makes no sense. Both the brothers had an emotional story line (in fact I'd say Dean had more of one maybe) this season. For him to say that Sam won't have one next season misses the whole point of, well, everything the show is about. (I'm going to hope that this isn't actually meant as Sam not having an emotonal arc in S8. With Dean missing there's no way that he'd not have an emotional response.

I know there is concern about Carver being Cas centric (and yeah, that does concern me a bit) but he also wrote A Very SPN Xmas and Mystery Spot - so I'm hoping we might get more of that kinda of brotherly interaction. The show may well change with Carver at the helm but I will wait for the first few eps before I make judgement.

I mean Dean never apologized or admitted he could have been wrong about Amy. It was his way or else.

I see it that Dean actually didn't think he did anything wrong with regards to Amy. She was a monster and she had to die. The thing he DID do wrong (and admitted) was lie to Sam. He had a reason for lying to Sam but confessed that doing that was eating him up. I found it really interesting that later on Sam had to kill Dean's "daughter" when Dean couldn't. It was a lovely turn about and (for me) brought that whole story line to a close. They both did what they did because it was their "job" and monsters have to be killed. Their actions hurt the other but both of them could see it was necessary. I saw it as one of the stronger story lines in the season. It seemed like it had been forward planned and played out over the first half of the season.

I take issue with people saying that the Winchesters have to be against each other to make interesting TV.

Yeah. After reading some comments here I'm not sure it's necessarily about them being against each other. I agree that they don't have to be fighting for there to be drive. There just has to be passion and concern and love. For me, S7 had a lot of this. Sure, it wasn't overt but it was most definitely there.

I think the lack of "drive" in S7 came down to having less at stake. I mean, the first half had that - with Sam's hallucinations slowly taking over, Bobby's death and Dean's drinking. The second half seemed to forget all that and mostly had MotW stories with the occasional arc story thrown in.

I was also fortunate in that I loved the idea of Dick and the Leviathans. Absolutely ADORED that show made commentary on the sick world we live in -that corporations rule the world and stuff the little person.

It mostly fell down for me with the reintroduction of Meg (shame because I used to love her) , the quick resolution to Sam's hallucinations and Dean's drinking. Also, the "Word of God" came about far too quickly - as did the notion of a new prophet (though I loved Kevin). Cas is another issue which I've already mentioned. But aside from those things there were a lot of really enjoyable moments and episodes.

I hope to still be squeeing this time next year. I'm not sure when my patience will run out. To be honest, as long as those two boys are on my screen Saving People and Hunting Things I will be hooked.

xox

[stormcloude]

Here's the Singer article, if you're interested. He doesn't say it in so many words, but he does say that Sam carried the emotional storyline of the year and it was too angsty and they want to lighten it up next year. The more Singer talks about the show, the less I want to watch it, so if you're trying to hold on to your squee, I'd hold off on reading it. ;)

I didn't watch the "Dean's daughter" episode, but killing a childhood friend is pretty different from killing a daughter. :( And like you said, it was more about lying to Sam's face and then Dean leaving Amy's kid alive for me. (What, he's not gonna kill to eat now? The relatives he goes to stay with aren't going to kill to feed him if he gets sick again?) I just think Dean handled the whole thing wrong from beginning to end and no one called him on it and just went on like it was the right thing to do. The Mentalists episode really pissed me off for that.

Yeah, I really don't get why they would be working with Meg in any way after all the stuff she did to them. Posessing Sam and killing people in his body, etc. From what I've heard they watered down her character a lot at the end of the year. She used to be so unapolgetically evil.

Also the religious elements were some of my most disliked things the show has ever done-- see my S4 hatred. So the fact that they brought all that back at the end of S7, going into S8...

Oh well, there's a lot of fanfic I haven't read yet, yanno? ;)


PS. I hope I'm not taking away any of your squee. That wasn't my intent at all. I hope S8 is fabulous and Carver is awesome and we can blast "The Boys Are Back in Town" and really mean it.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. I haven't seen that one. I had seen the other one (about what happens at the beginning of S8). Hmmm... yeah. I see what you mean. You know (and this is WILD speculation) I wonder how well Sera Gamble and Bob Singer got on. In that, Sera was known for writing Sam episodes and being Sam focused and now with her gone this may be (sounds like) his way of saying...now that Sera is gone we won't be getting that Sam focus next season. (though I personally think he's talking out of his butt here...)

Idk - I'm hoping this has been taken out of context (just like the quote about S8) and he's spouting off stuff he doesn't know about. I'm not sure I like him being negative about the show - I don't think it's very professional.

I don't mind the idea of a return to "saving people, hunting things" though - I like it best when there's a good case, lots of peril, mixed with a few brotherly moments.

Oh and re the Amy moment - you're right about Dean leaving the kid alive. I admit I forgot about that and I remember at the time being annoyed that Dean would do that. In fact, I'm more annoyed that the writers would let Dean do that. I remember thinking that Dean has now created another monster - there's no way that child wouldn't grow up vengeful. So yeah...it wasn't completely thought through. (Unless we get to Dean having to confront this one day - but I doubt they'll go there).

Meg confuses me no end -a lot has to do with Rachel's portrayal of her this season though. She seems most ineffectual. I don't know what her purpose for being there is so I'm going to reserve judgement to see what they do next season. I always thought it would be interesting to have her become "good", just like we have "evil" angels but there's just too much history there for the boys to be trusting her the way they do now. *shrugs* I think I'll have to hand wave that for the moment.

Hee! And you're not harshing my squee. I know the myriad of problems the show has. It is flawed in so many ways but I have a relationship with it that I just can't let go of yet. I sincerely hope it doesn't drive me away next season (or the one after) because that would be a sad day for me. I'm not fannish about any other TV show (even though I adore GoT - I'm not fannish about it). So once I lose this, that will be it for me I suspect.

xox