8.19 reaction/review
Apr. 4th, 2013 09:01 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ash48I hereby announce that from now on I will remain spoiler free. I have a feeling I would have enjoyed that a whole lot more if I had not known that Bobby was going to show up, or Benny or that Sam was going to be taking a trip to hell.
Between the promo and the episode I had all sorts of amazing possibilities going on in my head and, well...none of them happened.
That's not to say I didn't enjoy the episode. I actually did - rather a lot.
The thing I don't understand is why such an amazing thing like Sam getting into purgatory and hell was over and done with in one episode. Just the idea of Sam going into hell is pretty huge. But it was treated like a walk in the park. Everything happened so quickly and ended up being so easy. There was never a sense that there was real danger. Descending into the hell should have been hard.
That said I LOVED that Sam got to see purgatory. I didn't expect that and I bounced a little when I saw him there.
Initially I was pretty impressed with what they did with hell (on a next to nothing budget) but by the time Sam emerged I was left thinking...is that it?
I don't really want to be too critical on their attempts at creating hell. It would be damn hard. It's tricky because when we first saw hell Dean was strung up in a mesh of chains and wires, Lucifer spoke of it being a cold place and then, through Sam's eyes, we see it's a place of fire. I suppose hell could be different things to different people.
What I don't get is how damn easy it was for Sam to find Bobby. They really needed to give us a reason why he found him so quickly - did Bobby's soul shine in a certain way because it was innocent for example?). Or maybe this was Bobby's "version" of hell so that's where Sam was entered (I think I could build my own personal canon around how hell works in the SPN 'verse. I just wish the show would give us a clue...).
I've come away with such a mixture of feelings. Hmmm..I'll try to make sense of them:
The stuff I loved:
1. Sam and Dean. I know...DUH, but even with quite a bit of stuff that made me eye roll there was enough awesome SamnDean stuff that made me happy happy. The hug at the end was totally unexpected. I almost expected Dean to immediately ask after Benny and Bobby but he gave Sam that god almighty hug. The energy vibrating off of Jared and Jensen in that scene was electrifying. I absolutely loved it.
2. Sam. Sam being the rescuer and fighting off monsters in purgatory and demons in hell made me a happy fangirl. He looked so capable. And I'm loving his approached to the trials. He really doesn't want to have to do them but he knows he has to so he soldiers on. Of course the additional Sammy pain didn't go unnoticed...;D (not to mention is hair falling all over his face when he fights 'n stuff.<33) Also... YAY Sam! We actually had a bit more of him in this one. I think there was room for some deeper stuff from him, but at least we did get to see him being capable.
3. Dean. At first I thought Dean was being a little too chipper after Sam when into Hell. Then I thought that a) this is the way Dean copes when he's stressed (food!) and b) he knows how capable Sam is. He was confident that Sam could do it and knew he had a reaper to help him. It wasn't until purgatory was mentioned that he got really worried.
4. Dean and Benny. Man, those two have chemistry. I totally felt for Dean having to kill Benny. Jensen really sold his conflict. I thought the scene between them was great.
5. Benny. I am so surprised that this is how the Benny storyline has been resolved. Pleasantly surprised though. I am SO happy that it didn't come down to them having to kill Benny because he'd turned bad. I LOVED that Sam got to understand a little bit more about Benny - and they had some nice moments together (man, I'd love to see the three of them working together one day. That would be pretty electric I reckon). I'm glad they addressed Dean ditching him earlier in the season. I'm glad Benny turned out to be a good guy and he got to help Sam and Bobby get out of Purgatory.
6. I really liked seeing Bobby again. I actually didn't think we were going to get to see him (even though he was mentioned in the sneak peek) so when he turned around it was still a bit of a surprised. I thought the little moments between Sam and Bobby were nice. Great that they gave some extra bonding time between them. I really got the feeling that this isn't goodbye. Also, I liked that Bobby's soul ascended to heaven and then was stopped. It really surprised (and actually worried) me.
7. (SHOULD BE NUMBER ONE!) The thing I probably loved the most (other than the hug) was them addressing Sam not looking for Dean. To me this felt like a little bit of an admission that they kinda screwed that part of the storyline up. It was still pretty weak - telling Sam that the so called "rule" wasn't real (DUH!!! Sam knows that! The audience know that! It seems that the writers at the time are the ones that didn't). They may have being trying to tell us that this is what happens to the Winchesters brothers when Bobby isn't around. They do stupid things.
8. The Winchesters are very famous in both heaven and hell. I like how awesome and famous they are. ;)
9. PIE!
10. Sam is changing on a subatomic level. Ack!! What does this even mean? What is happening to Sam's body each time he completes a trial?! I hope it's something really unexpected and cool. I'm pretty excited by the potential of this.
11. The special effects were very cool.
The stuff I didn't like so much:
1. Crowley. Sorry, but he's just so underwhelming. He growls and threatens and is very horrible but he kinda just bores me. I was rather hoping we might see a change of plan from him. Perhaps something clever. But nah - more torture and growling.
2. Sam spent about 100 years in the cage yeah? Why is that never mentioned? Has Sam forgotten that? Maybe when Cas did whatever he did, he took away a lot of his memories because Sam was acting pretty cool about having to revisit hell. Not even a twitch or moment where he remembers what it was like.
3. They really have forgotten Adam haven't they? Like...completely. *sadface* Even if they had slipped in a mention of Adam, only to be told breaking into the cage is impossible, at least he's considered.
4. I am just going to *handwave* the logistics of them actually getting into purgatory and hell etc. I figure they just make it up as they go and thinking too hard about it will just give me a headache. I suppose that now we know all about those places, getting in and out is just easier. Or something. Too damn hard to even contemplate. (though... how many "gates" or entrances are there? When they shut the gates of hell, I assume they mean ALL of them - not just the one they opened and closed at the end of S2?). I wonder how Sam's body became something that could not only enter hell, but withstand it. *not thinking too hard*
5. I'm neither here nor there with Kevin. I just don't know what I am supposed to be feeling. To say I don't care is pretty harsh, but actually, I just don't care. He's a device that gives Sam and Dean something to do. I think they are trying to give him some substance by us seeing how wrecked he is but, it all leaves me fairly *meh*. Though, I do like the continuity of him being slowly destroyed as his interprets the tablet.
6. Kevin's hideout isn't warded against angels. Is this after last week's ep? Up until then they didn't really trust Cas, so I'm not sure why it wouldn't have been guarded against him. If Naomi found the hideout now, why didn't she visit Kevin earlier? How did she find the hideout anyway? Oh man, I just don't get all that stuff. I think Naomi is deliberately ambiguous and I'm cool with that. Is she good? Is she bad? We'll find out I suppose. (though HA! I loved that she took umbrage at being called a bureaucrat).
Other stuff:
There was a lot of good in this episode. Some loose ends were tied up in an unexpected way and we had some huge things going on. I suppose the major issue is that it should have been amazing. It should have had us all squeeing to the high heavens, instead we're left a little *meh*. Maybe it's because they tried to do SO MUCH in one episode or maybe this is because we are so spoiled with amazing fan stories that nothing can really match up to it. I am listening to a podfic at the moment that has Sam descending into hell to save Dean. The descriptions of hell and what happens to Sam's mind because of what he's done is so believable. It's also horrific. There's no way they could ever show those types of horrors or turn Sam into a vegetable from the experience. I feel like the show is so limited - both on budget and because they are not on HBO, that they really aren't able to do the things that the story often calls for.
So I'll forgive it. And I will because I actually WANT to look past its flaws so I can continue to feel the love. And there's still a whole lot to love me thinks. :))
I am excited for the rest of the season. I think they have opened the doors to a lot of possibilities. It's curious to me that the MoL story line has been introduced but nothing more has been done about it - I assume that'll leave something to explore next season. I hope Carver actually writes an episode though. Maybe the finale?
Bring it SPN! I know you can do it!
In the meantime...THIS!
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Date: 2013-04-04 01:16 pm (UTC)I try not to be spoilered - even by the promo/previews, but sadly I read a post last week where someone screen capped the promo so I too had prewarning about Bobby and that Benny was in it. I don't like knowing that much in advance, I really do think it messes up the impact of things that really should have greater shock value. But there you go, sometimes it's just too hard not to see things.
I love Mark Sheppard and want so badly to love Crowley but I don't think they are giving him enough menace. The only thing that's keeping me interested in Crowley is the idea that he might be a fallen angel rather than a demon. And It's hard to feel much for Kevin, partly because I think writing in imaginary severed limbs etc is just so patently not real that it's difficult to muster up emotion when something nasty really happens.
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Date: 2013-04-04 01:28 pm (UTC)It did only partially deliver and that's a shame. Undercooked I think. If they had played it out some more it might have been fully realised.
I had been seeking spoilers because I was struggling so much with the early episodes (and I like to know when certain characters are going to appear), but I am going to be stronger now. I hope...;)
I think Mark and Kevin's performances are strong enough, but I agree that they have been given little to work with. If we consider how much Benny has been given, we know it is possible.
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Date: 2013-04-04 01:16 pm (UTC)It's ridiculous how depressed I am because of this.
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Date: 2013-04-04 01:32 pm (UTC)It was always going to be a hard ask for those writers to pull this off. They aren't the best and I have no idea why they gave them such an important episode. I think of what could have been in the hands of Edlund or Thompson.
S8 has been a struggle at times. Unfortunately. :(
xoxox
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Date: 2013-04-04 08:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-04-04 01:18 pm (UTC)Bring on trial number three, right??
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Date: 2013-04-05 10:10 am (UTC)And I think there is definitely an attempt to take it back to the feel of S1. I'm happy for them to do that, I just don't want them to keep reinventing the universe. It's makes it hard to keep up...;)
My screen wasting scene was the one between Crowley and the taxi driver. I keep thinking...I know exactly how this is going to end so can we get there already.
Oh man...what will trial #3 be?! It'll have to take its toll on poor Sammy..(yay!)
Bring it!
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Date: 2013-04-04 01:34 pm (UTC)But that's kind of the trouble. I think they have fantastic actors, and when they had a moment to take control of the characters lovely things emerged. But this story was packed full of stuff, and that meant the characters were mostly dragged along by the script. Which was written by a couple of writers I don't like very much. And as much as I can try to lower my standards ... at the end of the day I'm still watching something written by a couple of writers I don't think are very good. So, well, alas.
And I'm loving his approached to the trials. He really doesn't want to have to do them but he knows he has to so he soldiers on.
There is a nice contrast between Sam's attitude and Kevin's unravelling. Not as a dig at Kevin, just as that ongoing theme of Sam and Dean as the master hunters of their era. Kevin is new, and he just can't take it. Sam just gets on with things.
Benny. I am so surprised that this is how the Benny storyline has been resolved. Pleasantly surprised though. I am SO happy that it didn't come down to them having to kill Benny because he'd turned bad.
Yeah, I'm very glad that Benny got to go out with dignity. Given some of the soap-ish stuff in the early part of the season, I was worried about how this was going to go. It was a nice surprise that they let him have a heroic death. And the conflict of having to kill his friend to save his brother is nicely suited to Dean's issues.
Sam is changing on a subatomic level. Ack!! What does this even mean? What is happening to Sam's body each time he completes a trial?! I hope it's something really unexpected and cool. I'm pretty excited by the potential of this.
There is great potential there. And there are only three trials, so each one should make a huge difference. He was only a third of the way through before, so not such a big deal. Now he's two thirds through. Must. Know.
I think Naomi is deliberately ambiguous and I'm cool with that. Is she good? Is she bad? We'll find out I suppose.
Well, she was plotting to kill Dean and I am not on board with that for any reason, so I vote bad. :)
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Date: 2013-04-05 10:21 am (UTC)Kevin is new, and he just can't take it. Sam just gets on with things
I am really liking this. Through Kevin we are able to see how Dean and Sam have learned to cope. They have been able to pass on their words of wisdom and we can see what seasoned hunters they are. I think they have had the right approach with Kevin. At times I really feel for him and at other times I just don't connect.
And the conflict of having to kill his friend to save his brother is nicely suited to Dean's issues.
Yeah. That was quite something. It was a fitting end to Benny (if indeed he is dead). Benny was such a decent guy. I felt for sure he'd not be able to make it without killing. He was a true hero and it was wonderful to see Sam recognise that.
I sincerely hope they have something super cool up their sleeves for Sam after the last trial. I imagine that will be the cliffy.
so I vote bad.
Yeah. Bad cookie. I liked the way she was so smooth at the end and let Bobby soul go to heaven. I wonder if we'll see him in scenes when she's up there now? She may have let that happen so she can use him....
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Date: 2013-04-04 01:37 pm (UTC)I loooove spoilers (and usually I try really hard not to form guesses as to what's gonna transpire) but this time around, I happened to have guessed everything and it took al of the potential zing out of the episode for me. Not that I hated the ep but yeah, it felt 'meh'.
The acting was pretty damned solid, though. I loved Naomi's subtle little gesture to push Bobby's soul on up to Heaven, loved all the chemistry between the characters.
Stuff I loved about the stuff you loved:
1.) YES. They kinda rocked it.
3.) Also, Dean doesn't like to stew. He knew there was nothing he could do for the next 24 hours so why furrow about it?
5.) A Sam-Dean-Benny hunting party: SIGN ME UP. It'd be like 'Team Freewill meets Fight Club'; there's a sort of ballsy fun to it. I could see them trying to good-naturedly one-up each other, in speed and creativity of kills.
10.) Yeah. Hurt Sam, love me.
11.) The fx were AWESOME. Well played!
And I the stuff you didn't love is exactly the stuff I didn't, either.
Hey, you, LINK TO THAT PODCAST YOU'RE LISTENING TO! I'm heading out on a trip today and need something to listen to in the car, besides my children fighting. :D
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Date: 2013-04-04 03:01 pm (UTC)Looks like we're on the same page with this one. Lots to love and I think the spoilers did take out the potential zing.
It'd be like 'Team Freewill meets Fight Club'; there's a sort of ballsy fun to it. I could see them trying to good-naturedly one-up each other, in speed and creativity of kills.
Hee! Yes..:DD
And here's the link: Redemption (http://spn-gen-podfics.livejournal.com/52811.html). I'm not done yet, but I've been enjoying it so far. It seems a happy coincidence that I've been listening to a story with Sam walking into hell and then there's an ep about it. The fic ep is more what I have in mind when I imagine SPN hell.
xxx
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Date: 2013-04-04 01:40 pm (UTC)What I don't get is how damn easy it was for Sam to find Bobby. They really needed to give us a reason why he found him so quickly - did Bobby's soul shine in a certain way because it was innocent for example?). Or maybe this was Bobby's "version" of hell so that's where Sam was entered
Maybe . . . because the Reaper who directed Sam there was the same dude who dropped Bobby off in hell, and that particular entryway was one he used exclusively? Maybe everyone in that section of Hell was one of Ajay's deliveries? Just a thought, but I do wish Show had explained it that way.
The hug at the end was totally unexpected. I almost expected Dean to immediately ask after Benny and Bobby but he gave Sam that god almighty hug.
Not unexpected for me. ;) No matter what tangents Show goes off on, things always come back around to what it's really about -- the brothers. And oh, that hug.
I agree 1000% with everything you said about Benny. I so, SO didn't want him to die, and Show not only wrapped his storyline in a wonderful way, they left it open for him to one day return. I LOVED this part of the episode -- especially the last scene between Dean and Benny, which broke my heart. Jensen and Ty really nailed that scene.
this is what happens to the Winchesters brothers when Bobby isn't around. They do stupid things.
LOL! You may be right. Too bad that conversation was interrupted before Bobby could administer the ass-chewing that you KNEW he was working up to. :)
They really have forgotten Adam haven't they? Like...completely. *sadface* Even if they had slipped in a mention of Adam, only to be told breaking into the cage is impossible, at least he's considered.
I was really expecting them to mention Adam when the "innocent souls" business was revealed, and, yeah, I'm pretty sure that Sam wouldn't ever be able to break into the Cage, but I'd like to think that the guys would have thought of their "other" brother . . . but then Ajay mentioned Bobby, and all bets were off.
. . . but yeah, I think they have forgotten about Adam. :(
the continuity of him being slowly destroyed as his interprets the tablet.
That does seem to be an unfortunate side-effect of being a prophet.
Kevin's hideout isn't warded against angels. Is this after last week's ep? Up until then they didn't really trust Cas, so I'm not sure why it wouldn't have been guarded against him.
THIS. They should have moved Kevin to the Batcave ASAP, but if not, that darn boat should have been warded six ways to Sunday. And TBH, I'm not really sure that they have reason trust Castiel now. He has, after all, absconded with the angel tablet that they need. And maybe he took it with good intentions, but you know what they say about good intentions. ;)
it should have been amazing. It should have had us all squeeing to the high heavens, instead we're left a little *meh*. Maybe it's because they tried to do SO MUCH in one episode
Absolutely. There's only so much you can do in forty-two minutes, and 8.19 had just too much going on to truly appreciate. Spread this ep between two episodes, make it less rushed, and it could have been wonderful.
There's entirely too much fandom negativity out there right now -- I'm SO glad you're on my flist! *hugs you like Dean glomming onto Sam*
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Date: 2013-04-04 01:58 pm (UTC)OH, dude, this would've been perfect. The rogue reaper could've simply given Sam a "here's where his cell is." One damned line. Same thing with the Adam situation. How awesome would it have been for the boys to say "So, you've heard of us; do you know about Adam?" The reaper: "Word on the street? When Sam got sprung, Adam slipped upstairs." End of story. I don't care for the writers of this episode AT ALL, though, so it doesn't surprise me.
Regardless, I do agree there's too much fandom negativity right now. I'm in it for the long-haul, PERIOD. I watch Justified, Supernatural, and Project Runway. That's it. I'm not distracted by other fandoms. I love Show. Will always. It's not just about SPN either, it's also about the most excellent folks I've met through this hobby. And that's the best thing ever. :D
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Date: 2013-04-04 02:13 pm (UTC)I was nicely emotionally engaged with this one (especially the Dean-Benny stuff and the Sam-Dean reunion hug), but in retrospect thought they weakened their own mythology greatly by making it so easy for Sam to get in and out of hell. Hell security is obviously much more lax than it was in S3/4 when Dean needed to escape! I hope someone makes a convincing case for why this makes sense. Dean also let Sam go to hell alone a little too readily for my taste, but with so much going on I guess there wasn't time for more discussion.
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Date: 2013-04-05 07:24 am (UTC)Dean: Well, you pulled me out.
Castiel: It took several angels to rescue you, and you weren't nearly as well guarded. Sam's soul is in Lucifer's cage. There's a difference, a big difference. It's not possible. I assume this to mean that Dean was guarded in hell. He was needed by Lilith to break the first seal, so she couldn't have him being rescued before Alastair broke him.
So, I see hell being just like a prison with different levels of security depending on who the prisoner is. Lucifer's Cage is like solitary, very, very well guarded with almost no way of getting access to the prisoner (Sam). Dean, being a VIP, would have had the next level of security below that. The area where Bobby was held is more like general population with looser security and a much better chance of staging a prison break.
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Date: 2013-04-04 02:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-04-05 10:43 am (UTC)He is! Did you see this (http://missyjack.livejournal.com/930631.html) Proof that he does!
I'd love to see Sam initiate one also...;)
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Date: 2013-04-04 02:34 pm (UTC)I think you just summed up Jeremy Carver's version of SPN
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Date: 2013-04-04 08:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-04-04 03:07 pm (UTC)I almost expected Dean to immediately ask after Benny and Bobby but he gave Sam that god almighty hug.
That was the one thing (other than Jensen's well-acted near-panic at finding the coyote dead in the taxi) that made me think that Dean still had some residual fears about Hell. Otherwise, yeah, both Sam and Dean treated it like it was a trip to Tijuana.
I suppose the major issue is that it should have been amazing. It should have had us all squeeing to the high heavens, instead we're left a little *meh*.
That's one thing that being almost completely unspoiled helps, I think. Well, that, and I don't expect as much from the show as I used to. Things like Sam getting in and out of Hell as easily as he did no longer make me shout at my TV. Now it's more like, "That's dumb. Eh, moving on." :)
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Date: 2013-04-05 10:49 am (UTC)Yeah. I can't believe either of them are that blasé about hell. They have both been there and experienced the horrors, surely it's not a place either of them would go without some reaction.
and I don't expect as much from the show as I used to
I'm getting like that too. I'm feeling less like getting upset about things and more like getting better at handwaving.
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Date: 2013-04-04 03:54 pm (UTC)But I loved this one. I think it would have still been better if I wouldn't have been spoiled about Bobby and Benny. But it was still a good enough episode. Even though there could have been more to it.
Benny and Dean do have a good chemistry. *coughs* I like that better than Dean and Cas *coughs* And I'm glad that Benny died with his dignity intakt. He did good and he died as a good man. I like that very much.
And the hug was great. Loved that. But I always love the boys hugging. ;)
It was good to see Bobby again and have him bond a little with Sam. They had a wonderful scene. :)
So yeah, good episode that could have been better. But now we have to wait again. Meh. :/
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Date: 2013-04-05 10:54 am (UTC)Benny and Dean do have a good chemistry. *coughs* I like that better than Dean and Cas *coughs*
I agree. I'm not sure if that's an actor thing or if it's just harder acting or connecting with an angel. I think Ty really brought something special to his character. I thought there was some nice stuff between Jared and Ty also. I'd love to see the three of them together in an ep.
I can't believe we have to wait again!! Drives me nuts....(and doesn't help me remain spoiler free /o\)
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Date: 2013-04-04 04:43 pm (UTC)I think they don't have the budget or the screen time left to get too deep with Sam or Dean about going to Hell. What's disappointing is that it was pretty easy for Sam to get in so if he'd been looking for Dean, he could have got him out, no problem. They squandered so much of the early season on the Amelia story that they could have skipped and filled with some of this stuff and made it more difficult or more in depth. Plus, they probably could have found a way in and out of Hell in the batcave books instead of torturing another possessed person.
All that aside, I was so into what was happening on the screen that I didn't care until they got to the Crowley-Kevin section and then I just kind of tuned out a bit. The big deal with Kevin being gone is that he's the only one who can tell them what the next trial is. I wonder if there's a time limit on how long Sam has to do the trials. He probably has to get them done before the physical damage from them kills him.
Anyway...Guy Bee did his usual awesome work and the set guys did so much with the graffiti on the wall around the reaper's portal. So much to really enjoy overall.
Plus.....BOBBY!!! Geez, I've missed him so much.
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Date: 2013-04-05 11:07 am (UTC)Plus, they probably could have found a way in and out of Hell in the batcave books instead of torturing another possessed person.I wonder if there's a time limit on how long Sam has to do the trials.
Good point. Will Sam get weaker the longer it takes? That would add a level of urgency. *hopes*
I loved that Guy directed this. I think that really helped make the ep the best it could be with the script.
I LOVED the reaper's portal!! all the effects were great I thought.
Yay! Bobby <333
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Date: 2013-04-04 05:14 pm (UTC)*reads your post*
When Sam found Bobby so quickly in hell I decided it was the intention that led him to him, creating a connection, using my own experiences of non physical plains of reality, and was quite satisfied with that explanation. :P
Oh, you weren't impressed by Crowly. lol. Ah well, we can't be on the same page all the time. ;) What I did notice is that this time he slammed the boys against some trees with a handwave while lately he seemed a little incapable of doing that. *g*
Yes, Adam.. seems I forgot all about him, too. /o\
Thanks for sharing the wonderful hug-cap in the end. *loves* :D
♥♥♥
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Date: 2013-04-04 05:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-04-04 05:14 pm (UTC)Aside from that this has got to be the first episode of the whole season that I actually liked, I don't know, it kinda has that original!SPN vibe or something to it... yes, I know, I rarely make sense. :P
Question. The girl in Hell, the one that said "You came, I knew you would, I've been waiting forever..." to Sam, is it just me or does she resemble Amelia a little?
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Date: 2013-04-04 08:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-04-04 05:30 pm (UTC)Dean and Benny were awesome and a very unexpected way for Benny to 'end.'
This should have been a two-parter, ending when Sam got to the entrance to hell and Dean found Ajay's body. Sigh.
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Date: 2013-04-05 12:18 pm (UTC)Yeah. I've been trying to *handwave* them only finding about this now. All for the sake of story telling. It would have made a whole lot more sense if they found it in a book in the bat cave.
A two-parter would have been great. Even if it did mean having to wait over this next mini hiatus.
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Date: 2013-04-04 08:44 pm (UTC)I actually loved the Dean/Benny stuff (why were they able to sell me on Dean/Benny in like 4 episodes and not Dean/Cas in 4 seasons?)
And I'll never turn down a brother hug.
But the rest: I have to LOL or I'd HULKSMASH. We've now completely devalued the magnitude of Sam not saving Dean from Hell or Purgatory. Any old crossroads demon can tell you how to do it? WTF, Sam!? You is STUPID and LAZY, child.
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Date: 2013-04-05 12:23 pm (UTC)I'm trying! At least there's some cool SamnDean stuff going on to keep me happy. ;)
why were they able to sell me on Dean/Benny in like 4 episodes and not Dean/Cas in 4 seasons?
WORD! (Ha, I think I said that on your journal...). I wonder if it's an actor chemistry thing or just that finding something to really connect Cas and Dean is difficult....
We've now completely devalued the magnitude of Sam not saving Dean from Hell or Purgatory
I KNOW! Just when I had convinced myself that there was nothing he could have done...:(( I know they wouldn't have even considered that (though I was glad it was at least mentioned in this episode, even if it was to say...you're both stupid when Bobby is not around!)
<333
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Date: 2013-04-04 08:59 pm (UTC)Isn't that what they always do? I feel like whenever a Sam centered storyline is the main theme of the episode they try to push all kind of other side-stories in about what Dean is doing at the time.
It's frustrating. I mean, we had more than one episode over the years that had less than 5 minutes of Sam in it.
Dear writers, Jared is a big boy. He can handle an episode like that as well. I know the show is written pretty much from Dean's POV, but enough is enough. It's frustrating.
*stepping of the soapbox*
I agree with pretty much all you wrote. Especially about the things I would have loved to see explored more deeply. And that there was a lot of things that I loved about the episode.
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Date: 2013-04-05 12:36 pm (UTC)Oh man. I hear ya. It's the one this I am finding so distressing about this season. Don't even get me started on the first half of the season.
I was pleased that we got some competent, capable Sam, but I would love to have some deeper things explored. Like how he is really feeling about doing these trials, or how he felt about knowing Dean was in purgatory for a year without him even trying to look for him...etc. I was pleased that at least we got some Dean and Bobby.
I also loved the way Sam didn't say anything when Dean asked him what was wrong. Jared was awesome - his face said it all.
xx
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Date: 2013-04-04 09:34 pm (UTC)You know that stupid-ass line of Sam's in Torn and Frayed, "I know I'm going to hell for saying this...," that we were side-eyeing so hard?
NOW I KNOW WHY THAT LINE WAS IN THERE.
Because, in Citizen Fang, when Martin was holding Benny's great-great granddaughter hostage?
Benny put his head down on the bar and bared his neck so Martin could behead him. He was willing to sacrifice himself for his family.
And in this episode, Sam does indeed go to hell, and Benny lets Dean behead him to save Sam, who may not be Benny's family, but he's Dean's, and Dean IS Benny's family.
Show flat out TOLD US what was going to happen to Sam and Benny.
I gotta think that we've gotten that information about Dean and Castiel, too, if we could just figure it out...
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Date: 2013-04-05 12:40 pm (UTC)Hmm...interesting. (I so desperately want the first half of the season to marry into this second half so it all MAKES SENSE!).
Thanks for the extra thinky...
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Date: 2013-04-04 10:34 pm (UTC)This was totally bugging me as well. When I was watching that part, I kept wondering if he'd ever have any flashbacks of being in hell, but it didn't seem that way, did it? Then I started thinking like you that Cas took the memories away when he did that thing he did... who really knows, but it is a bit irksome.
That hug!! *squeeeee*
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Date: 2013-04-06 12:12 am (UTC)Yeah - I'd like to think the memories were taken away. Though I'm pretty sure the writers have conveniently forgotten all about Sam's time in the pit. :(
That hug is made of WIN! \o/
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Date: 2013-04-05 02:21 am (UTC)And it's usually when I have seen spoilers for plot points and not guest starts (unless the guest stars happen to be dead in the SPNverse...like this week.) Simply knowing that a recurring character is going to show up is not a game changer for me. Prime example: Goodbye Stranger. Now, it was a fantastic episode and probably better paced, but all sorts of stuff went down in that one, too. The only difference between the two is that I knew nothing about plot points for GS and I knew too much for this one. I should stop even reading the synopsis before watching.
Thing is, I don't know how to control myself and be on the Internet at all. I am really going to try for the rest of the season.
There was so much to love in this one though I feel we did waste time with the Kevin/Crowley drama when it should have really centered on what was going down with the boys. Like you, I am not sure i can bring myself to care about Kevin but I am also not sure that is not solely due to not wanting to see what was going on with him, here. He could have told them about the trial, heard Crowley but kept all that to himself and gone off the rails another time so that the viewer could have spent time with the focus we wanted to see Sam and Dean and Bobby and Benny. Naomi was used well, I think, and my interest was piqued at just what she is up to!
There have been numerous Sam centric plots that I feel were shortchanged and woefully under explored so that is nothing specific to season 8 in my book. These trials are a big deal. Sam strolling through purgatory and hell is a big deal. We need to see the impact of that. I did love the scene with the girl who kept saying, "I knew you'd come." I loved how Sam looked so torn , almost devastated, by her and my brain that wants to see associations where there are none would like to think that little beat was significant for some reason.
I loved how Benny's story played out. I loved that I was actually worried that, after all that, Bobby was going right back to hell. I love that Sam got to save someone and had a real scene with Bobby, one to one, like the surrogate son he also is. I love Bobby. I loved Dean being all frantic when learned where Sam was and when he saw Ajay dead. I loved how desperate he was to call Benny and ask him to do what he did. I loved that Benny did not hesitate to do what Dean asked. I love that after all these seasons, I'm still getting teary-eyed and yelling at the screen.
Now that's alot of love and I've decided that my spoiled perception cannot be a valid one because it will always be altered by expectation. Someone make me stop looking at them!!
As an aside, a friend of mine had reached season 8 and she came over to watch the first 6 episodes. Now, I never actually hated Amelia or that whole storyline but I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I liked her more on this second viewing. I don't know what that means other than maybe I should never pass judgment on this show until I've watched it twice. Except for Bugs and Man's Best Friend with Benefits. Those I'll probably never sit through ever again. I told my friend to text me when she watched more and I'd watch "with" her.....Except for MBFwB. LOL. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I was actually looking forward to seeing the rest again which does not jive with my perception that the early part of the season is hit or miss.
I should add that this is the first season I've watched where I've actually been spoiled going into the season and for much of the season itself.
Yeah, it's the spoilers! Someone help meeeeeeeee..........
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Date: 2013-04-06 07:50 am (UTC)Thing is, I don't know how to control myself and be on the Internet at all.
This is the thing I am going to find difficult. I have been pretty good in the past at avoiding spoilers but as I am on twitter a bit and scan tumblr every now and then I am bound to be spoiled for returning guests. I do actually want to know when Cas will appear (that helps me prepare) but I don't want to know about anyone else...
I loved how Sam looked so torn , almost devastated, by her and my brain that wants to see associations where there are none would like to think that little beat was significant for some reason.
That was a particularly powerful moment I thought. I really good addition to the hell scenes. I thought Jared did an excellent job. I think a lot of Sam's stuff was unsaid. Like the way he reacted why Dean asked how he was. He was silent, which spoke volumes.
I have rewatched some of the earlier episodes and have found them easier to accept. In concept I didn't mind the Amelia story line. I just don't think it was very well executed. For the big reveal to be Don walking back into Amelia's life it was very (very!) weak. But it's easier for me to accept now that it's in the past.
I would still love the first and second half to marry up in some way. I think that's why I was so happy that at least Sam not looking for Dean was mentioned again.
Ack! Spoilers will be the death of me. I keep thinking they won't give too much away, but they kinda do.
xx
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Date: 2013-04-05 12:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-04-05 06:23 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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