8.23 question...
Jun. 2nd, 2013 11:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ash48Something I've been pondering...
Gratuitous bro touching gif ('cause h/c, Sam's hair and neck, Dean's face and hands <33) - though it is relevant to my question.
(I saw a suggestion that the lights could represent where the angels were falling??? Neat idea...)
When Sam doubles over after he's somehow let the light in his arms "go", he's responding to the angels falling isn't he? At first I thought it was part of the subatomic transformation but he was reacting the same way as the batcave was - the bunker was lighting up and Sam was in a heap of pain. Yeah? (not sure why this took so damn long for me to catch on /o\)
This means that Sam is somehow connected to the event of the angels falling. I wonder if they did that just to add to the dramatic tension at the end or whether it's significant that Sam's body is reacting to this event. When the boys were cracking open the tablet at the end of S7, the earth seems to react (which makes some sort of sense I suppose), so maybe it's just the nature of a huge event that makes...um...things act differently (though it didn't effect Dean and Crowley). I thought the bunker lighting up was simply used for dramatic effect, but they really didn't need to add that did they? So the bunker and Sam are somehow connected to this event. Ack! What does it all mean?! Is Sam becoming an angel in this transformation? Is that even possible?! Being purified suggests something like this surely? (do we know how angels are made in the SPN 'verse? Have I not been paying enough attention?).
I think I would like it to all mean something so that the transformation that Sam has been undergoing isn't just going to vanish as soon as S9 starts. Not that I want Sam to be still changing in S9, but I want all those episodes where he was on death's door to mean something. (Though, um, I'm not sure I'd want Sam to become "angelic" while Cas is learning to be human. Do I? *headscratch* I'm not actually sure how I'd feel about that. Depends on how they do it. If it means more Sam and Cas interaction then maybe...)
I wanted to wax lyrical about Sam and his S8 journey but I can't seem to find a place to start. So instead I'll just say that I'm puzzled why I'd read some comments (not on LJ mind) that Sam was being selfish when he mentions Dean turning to Benny and Cas (not wanting Dean to have friends). My reaction is ... UM...WHAT?!?! I know we all watch the show differently (and that's OK!!), but Sam being selfish? Wasn't that all about Sam thinking he keeps letting Dean down? That Dean couldn't turn to him because he thought Dean doesn't trust him? I dunno. I just can't see selfishness in that moment. Quite the opposite in fact. He was totally prepared (again!) to sacrifice himself to save the world. Oh Sammy.
It's completely screwed up of course. But I love it because it wouldn't be Show if it wasn't.
But the thing I mostly loved is that from the very first S8 episode Sam was set on his journey to be able to say the line "You want to know what I confessed in there? What my greatest sin was? It was how many times I let you down. I can't do that again." And not only from 8.01, but also taking into account Sam not getting Dean out of his deal, nor being able to save him from hell. Sure, he redeemed himself by jumping into the Pit, but that was a sacrifice to save the world, not specifically to save Dean.
I've never wanted to admit it but Jared was probably right when he said (S8 spoilers) that Sam wouldn't exactly be pleased to see Dean back. I couldn't fathom that, but it makes some sense because I think Sam is constantly trying to prove himself to Dean. Not that Dean asks him to - it's just because he's the little brother who wants his big brother to be proud of him and to trust him. As soon as Sam saw Dean he must have a) realised he's screwed up big time and b) would know that he has to build that trust all over again. There's no doubt that Sam loves Dean, but it's hard work (like any relationship I suppose).
Two others points I wanted to make:
1. Sam's speech about seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. At the time that seemed out of the blue to me - Sam suddenly being positive didn't ring quite true, but looking back I'd say Sam's "light" is showing Dean that he can be counted on - that he won't let Dean down again. He'd be thinking that Dean would see the "light" too by seeing that Sam can be trusted to do this. No wonder Sam wanted to keep his deterioration a secret. I think he was so driven by proving to Dean he could do it.
2. The notion of responsibility was really huge for Sam in S8. As soon as Dean returned Sam was told he had a responsibility to Kevin. He let Dean AND Kevin down. When he hit the dog that took him to Amelia he was told the dog was his responsibility. Unfortunately that moment was badly handled (can't forgive clunky writing), but the idea was there. I think Sam felt some sort of responsibility to Amelia (did he? I'm still trying to figure out what the hell that relationship was all about), certainly a responsibility to the dog and then later to Dean. Oh you is so messed up Sam!.
Ok. I had to get some of that down. I feel much better about S8, simply because I now feel like there WAS some thought given to the overall story arcs - especially for Sam. It doesn't forgive everything (at all!) - but does help me with some of the issues I was initially having trouble with.
Gratuitous bro touching gif ('cause h/c, Sam's hair and neck, Dean's face and hands <33) - though it is relevant to my question.
(I saw a suggestion that the lights could represent where the angels were falling??? Neat idea...)
When Sam doubles over after he's somehow let the light in his arms "go", he's responding to the angels falling isn't he? At first I thought it was part of the subatomic transformation but he was reacting the same way as the batcave was - the bunker was lighting up and Sam was in a heap of pain. Yeah? (not sure why this took so damn long for me to catch on /o\)
This means that Sam is somehow connected to the event of the angels falling. I wonder if they did that just to add to the dramatic tension at the end or whether it's significant that Sam's body is reacting to this event. When the boys were cracking open the tablet at the end of S7, the earth seems to react (which makes some sort of sense I suppose), so maybe it's just the nature of a huge event that makes...um...things act differently (though it didn't effect Dean and Crowley). I thought the bunker lighting up was simply used for dramatic effect, but they really didn't need to add that did they? So the bunker and Sam are somehow connected to this event. Ack! What does it all mean?! Is Sam becoming an angel in this transformation? Is that even possible?! Being purified suggests something like this surely? (do we know how angels are made in the SPN 'verse? Have I not been paying enough attention?).
I think I would like it to all mean something so that the transformation that Sam has been undergoing isn't just going to vanish as soon as S9 starts. Not that I want Sam to be still changing in S9, but I want all those episodes where he was on death's door to mean something. (Though, um, I'm not sure I'd want Sam to become "angelic" while Cas is learning to be human. Do I? *headscratch* I'm not actually sure how I'd feel about that. Depends on how they do it. If it means more Sam and Cas interaction then maybe...)
I wanted to wax lyrical about Sam and his S8 journey but I can't seem to find a place to start. So instead I'll just say that I'm puzzled why I'd read some comments (not on LJ mind) that Sam was being selfish when he mentions Dean turning to Benny and Cas (not wanting Dean to have friends). My reaction is ... UM...WHAT?!?! I know we all watch the show differently (and that's OK!!), but Sam being selfish? Wasn't that all about Sam thinking he keeps letting Dean down? That Dean couldn't turn to him because he thought Dean doesn't trust him? I dunno. I just can't see selfishness in that moment. Quite the opposite in fact. He was totally prepared (again!) to sacrifice himself to save the world. Oh Sammy.
It's completely screwed up of course. But I love it because it wouldn't be Show if it wasn't.
But the thing I mostly loved is that from the very first S8 episode Sam was set on his journey to be able to say the line "You want to know what I confessed in there? What my greatest sin was? It was how many times I let you down. I can't do that again." And not only from 8.01, but also taking into account Sam not getting Dean out of his deal, nor being able to save him from hell. Sure, he redeemed himself by jumping into the Pit, but that was a sacrifice to save the world, not specifically to save Dean.
I've never wanted to admit it but Jared was probably right when he said (S8 spoilers) that Sam wouldn't exactly be pleased to see Dean back. I couldn't fathom that, but it makes some sense because I think Sam is constantly trying to prove himself to Dean. Not that Dean asks him to - it's just because he's the little brother who wants his big brother to be proud of him and to trust him. As soon as Sam saw Dean he must have a) realised he's screwed up big time and b) would know that he has to build that trust all over again. There's no doubt that Sam loves Dean, but it's hard work (like any relationship I suppose).
Two others points I wanted to make:
1. Sam's speech about seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. At the time that seemed out of the blue to me - Sam suddenly being positive didn't ring quite true, but looking back I'd say Sam's "light" is showing Dean that he can be counted on - that he won't let Dean down again. He'd be thinking that Dean would see the "light" too by seeing that Sam can be trusted to do this. No wonder Sam wanted to keep his deterioration a secret. I think he was so driven by proving to Dean he could do it.
2. The notion of responsibility was really huge for Sam in S8. As soon as Dean returned Sam was told he had a responsibility to Kevin. He let Dean AND Kevin down. When he hit the dog that took him to Amelia he was told the dog was his responsibility. Unfortunately that moment was badly handled (can't forgive clunky writing), but the idea was there. I think Sam felt some sort of responsibility to Amelia (did he? I'm still trying to figure out what the hell that relationship was all about), certainly a responsibility to the dog and then later to Dean. Oh you is so messed up Sam!.
Ok. I had to get some of that down. I feel much better about S8, simply because I now feel like there WAS some thought given to the overall story arcs - especially for Sam. It doesn't forgive everything (at all!) - but does help me with some of the issues I was initially having trouble with.
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Date: 2013-06-03 03:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-06-03 03:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-06-03 04:03 pm (UTC)Although they could be saving that for the end of season 13, when she knocks on the door of the bunker with a little girl in tow, long limbs,shaggy brown hair, cut hand, glowing forearms....speaking Enochian maybe?
Hehe...
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Date: 2013-06-03 05:17 pm (UTC)Then again, fandom would go fucking ballistic and I wouldn't be able to handle that or the inevitable death/memory erasure of Amelia and her progeny.
no subject
Date: 2013-06-03 08:27 pm (UTC)My main problem with Lisa-Dean-Ben was the ignoring of the difficulties she went through - the over romanticising of taking a broken, dangerous, grieving alcoholic man into her home as "the best year of my life" enraged me no end! That woman was a wonder and they could have at least acknowledged how much she'd gone through, had to change - and yes, I'm sure towards the end of the year there was the beginnings of a real relationship, something they could have built on - but that shit is hard and I hated show for making it look so glib and easy.
Great pity though they didn't have Dean meet Emma again in Purgatory and an even greater shame they didn't explore purgatory far more - I would have loved to see more about how the place worked, a year's a very long time.
no subject
Date: 2013-06-03 08:55 pm (UTC)Emma was a major missed opportunity. I'd have LOVED her to have had a 2 episode arc the first time and then a significant reappearance in Purgatory. I liked Benny, but just think of what the season would have been like with a strong Emma connection instead. Or in addition.
no subject
Date: 2013-06-04 09:20 am (UTC)I am so annoyed now, because around 5 or 6 weeks ago I was soaking in the bath listening to SOMETHING and it was a Dean/Lisa vid perfectly - you know how you plot it out in your head? Now? God damn my memory, I have NO idea what the track was.... *weeps* I've never made a shipper vid and it would have been a good practice.
Purgatory pisses me off with the lost opportunities, so many monsters there because of the Winchesters, even if they wanted Benny as a new character, why they couldn't have tied him into the family at the same time, I have no idea. The Campbells (and the Winchester through the MOL) have been hunting for centuries, imagine how many grudges could have played out.
no subject
Date: 2013-06-04 12:28 pm (UTC)Ah, here it is.
Purgatory was like, OK. Jensen looked hot and the filming was stylish and the Leviathan look freaking great. But it was a huge, huge missed opportunity. I would love to see them go back there someday.
no subject
Date: 2013-06-04 02:32 pm (UTC)