I'm curious...

[ash48]

Something that has been on my mind for a while (hee...for a good reason I have to add) is how do fans generally feel about their work being used in other fans work?

If, for example, someone made a video showcasing fan art, fics and vids how would you feel if your work appeared it in? Or if your story was podficced? Or if your art was posted to a story? Do you think you should have been asked permission for it to be used or do you think that because you have released to the public domain it's available for anyone to use in a their own work? (I'm not talking about taking it and claiming it as their own - that's definitely a huge no).

As fans we take inspiration from products that are copyrighted (TV show, films, music etc) and we often use them in our own work - usually transforming them into something else to share with fellow fans. We don't seek permission from the source - once they are available to the public we jump all over them. How does that change for our own work - be it art, fic, vids, podfics? I know we don't get paid and nor do we make money from our work, so is that the sole reason why getting permission to use other people's fan work is so important? Is it just courtesy? Is it an unwritten etiquette amongst fans? Does it depend on the transformative work it appears in? Would it matter if the work was controversial or making a statement you didn't support?

Or am I missing a another explanation for why permission has to be sort and granted whenever we use other's fanworks? (I'm simply curious. I have no agenda here other than making sure I'm not missing some ethical morality (or law!!) when it comes to using fan works). And I'm not talking about taking other people's work and claiming it as your own. Or producing something that the viewer would assume is yours even if you can't give precise credit (I know that's murky, but there are times when it's obvious that the work doesn't belong to the creator - like a screen cap of a website for example).

For me I think the courtesy is nice, but I figure once my work is out there it's up for grabs. I'm usually honored when I see my work used in someone else's - or it's an inspiration for something else. Credit is nice, but not essential. I think part of the fan community is about sharing - but maybe I'm be naive on this front.

Comments

[colls]

I podfic a bit and it's considered bad manners to podfic without author's permission - either via blanket permission note or specific approval. My understanding of the argument surrounding podfic is whether it's a transformative remixed work or whether a podficcer is archiving a fic albeit in a different medium - in which case archiving w/o author permission has long been considered a faux pas.
My personal opinion is that it's a bit of both and would never dream of posting a podfic without crediting the author - just like you'd never see an audiobook marketed without the author's name prominently displayed.

Like you, I think that if a fan put it out there, said fan wanted to share it. So let's SHARE! Some fan art posts contain notes like "please do not redistribute or alter without permission" and I think that sort of request should be honored.

Rec posts and embedding a youtube vid inherently links back to the source so that's not claiming anything or even remixing, but I go as far as noting on my vid rec blog that if any vidder would like me to take down a post to let them know. BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO BE RUDE.

What's being re-used? Are you transforming something to make something entirely new? Are you referencing for meta purposes? Are you using the fan's creation or the source material the fan used? Does it make a difference?

Like podfic, I would consider using someone's vid or fanart to make something of my own without permission to be slightly rude. However, if someone did that with anything I made, I'd be flattered - whether they asked for permission or not.
But what if you can't find the source to ask? That gets murky and I've seen several people say things like "if you know creator, please advice" etc. I'm actually debating that on a podfic where the author had given permission at some point on another fic but can find no public note and have contacted them with no response. Do I assume permission based on precedence? It gets murky.

Then there are things like screencaps. The fan didn't really 'own' that to begin with, did they? I do like to credit sites I use because of the time it took to extract and provide, but I don't ask permission as I'm not sure there was a creative input on the part of the fan. I'm not sure if that's being judgmental or not. Con photos are different still, they're taken by a fan but in a public(-ish) venue. IDK, I've never thought too hard on con photos and such. Who decides what is creative and what isn't?

tl;dr
essentially I agree with your last sentence, but understand that other fans like to be involved with their fanworks which is why we tend to seek permission - it's a courtesy and we like to be nice people.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah - I think you make a lot of sense. I think we do need to make an effort to be polite and considerate of other fans' works. Sometimes if depends on the situation and the manner in which the work will be used. I hadn't thought much on podficcing - but yeah, it would be very important to credit the author and get permission. I suspect most authors would be thrilled to have their work read.

I'm often torn with using con footage. I am making a J2 vid atm and I have a heap of dl'd footage. I've thanked people where I can but getting permission from everyone is pretty impractical.

The fan didn't really 'own' that to begin with, did they?

Screen caps are interesting because I feel like they are made for the express purpose of fans using them. I except it's nice to credit the makers where possible though.

Hmmm...a lot of it is murky. I suppose if we try and do the right thing it's the best we can do.
xx