9.01 Episode review/reaction

[ash48]

Show is back and I mean...BAAACK!



That was a damn solid and satisfying season opener. Welcome back show!! \o/ Way to make an entrance!

There was massive mirroring in this episode and even though I can hear some say "but we've been here before" I think that's the point. They used past character issues and have opened themselves up to really begin to explore and examine those issues. The door is wide open with possibilities and I am very excited by those. In the word of Death -"Well played!" (ha! assuming this IS about addressing the stuff they've done before...).

Let's go!

Counting the ways:

1. Ok. So we've been in Sam's head before. It's a pretty intense place and man that guy is messed up. As with The Man Who Knew Too Much, he's using his subconscious to wrestle a decision. This time it's between the resignation of death and the will to fight. It's highly appropriate that Bobby represents the invitation of death (a fatherly figure that gives good advice) and that Dean represents the fight (the voice that is always the reason to fight). "Real" Bobby might encourage Sam to fight, but this isn't a Sam who wants to live. This is a very broken Sam and he's ready to leave. (I have to say I am mighty relieved to see this as the way Bobby was brought back).

2. I am going to cut straight to it here and confirm that Sam did not want to die and leave Dean "alone out there" like he fought against in TMWKTM - this is a Sam who wants to die because he feels he has done enough damage already. Enough damage to people (and the world) in general and most importantly - enough damage to Dean. I think it's very important that we remember the state we left Sam in in the finale. He felt he let Dean down. He STILL feels he let Dean down and he, and the rest of the world, would be better off without him. (And NO, he's not a bleeding heart who needs sympathy. He's a man who as given enough - his own subconscious had to remind himself that HE saved Bobby from Hell - not Dean). He's a man who knows the world will fair much better without him screwing up all the time. He asks Death to promise there's no way he can come back - mainly so he can stop hurting the one person that matters the most. It's heartbreaking (but fucking awesome!)

3. In the end Sam agreed to Dean helping him because he still trusts Dean to know what to do. The fact that "his" Dean didn't have a plan was significant because the Dean that came to him in the end did. Sam relies on that. He trusts that. He believes in Dean. And he returns for Dean.

4. Dean Dean Dean. Oh Dean. Dean's been here before. A dying brother with a massive decision to make. Once again he chooses Sam's life, but this time he doesn't sacrifice himself (by selling his soul), he sacrifices Sam. It's a little like the decision to re-soul him in S6. He did that against Sam's will and - as with his own soul sacrifice in S2 - it had dire consequences. Will this be the season that Dean comes to realise what bringing Sam back from the dead means? Will this be the opportunity for Dean to examine his complete and utter need for Sam to be alive? I actually believed Dean when he told Death it wasn't his time. Sam wanted to die for the wrong reasons, so I think Dean made the right decision (much like giving him his soul back). Sure...it's wrong is so many ways - but this is what will create the story and potential to examine this issues in his character this season. I did love how competent Dean was (as a hunter) in this episode.

5. And I totally believe that that was Dean who came to Sam at the end. I know that the angel appeared at the very end but I (well, we - the lovely peeps I was watching it with) came to the conclusion that Ezekiel was channeling Dean allowing him to persuade Sam. That wasn't the angel "pretending" to be Dean - it came from Dean's heart. Which means Zeke rode Dean into Sam's head and the three of them kinda soul bonded (shuddup! That totally happened!)

6. I found it really interesting the way Castiel and Hael's story mirrored what was going on with Sam, Dean and Ezekiel. Hael's vessel was deteriorating and needed Castiel's much stronger one - Zeke needed a strong vessel to heal and needed permission to possess Sam. I think even though Sam's body is weakened he must still be very strong (he housed Lucifer after all!). I think it will be a very interesting story line. It opens up all sorts of questions - not least, what will happen when he decides he "could like it here" and not want to leave Sam.

7. Ok, so there's a potential rift likely to develop between the boys, but I am much happier with this rift making issue that last season's. Something like this might actually drive them to actually talk about Dean making decisions for and on behalf of Sam and them keeping secrets from each other (again). Of course Sam might just turn to Dean and say..."Good call man. Thanks. I wasn't in a fit state to make a life and death decision". Yeah...maybe not. But I can't imagine what they will do. Sam storming off is hardly going to cut it this time. I think (hope) they'll have something more interesting up their sleeves for this resolution.

8. I was happy with how they handled Cas, for the most part. The only silly moment was him trying to knock out the phone guy with his "powers" when he knew he'd lost his grace and wings. Though, he still had angel radio so maybe he though he still had some angel powers. No idea how all that angel power stuff works. The other angels seem to have powers so maybe it's their grace that gives them that. I did love the laundry scene. A great moment of indecision. I think it was no mistake that we saw the sign "Do not overload the washing machines" while he was looking at the vending machine. His dilemma was very human in the end. I also liked that he took charge and stopped listening to Hael has she tried to persuade him to let her use his vessel. We might see a stronger Cas emerge after this.

9. Loved the opening scene in car - mostly because of the way it was filmed. The car seemed to float and there was that wonderful red and blue light we saw in the cage promo. Might not represent heaven and hell as such, but I think it's definitely representing the decision Sam needs to make. There is also A LOT of red and blue throughout the episode.




Other general stuff:

Title card looks AMAZING! Ok - it signals a full on angel season (which, yeah - can't say I'm thrilled about that) - but wow! Looks stunning.

Fantastic "then". (Looked like a cool fanvid). AND THAT SONG!!! "Who Do You Love?" <33

SAM AND DEAN!! SAM AND DEEEAAAANNNN!!! OMG! Their messed up, co-dependent, all consuming love was what that episode was all about! Holy crap - it's great to be back here again.

DEAN IS NOT DEAN WITHOUT SAM! I know that's totally messed up, but THAT'S WHY I WATCH THIS SHOW!

SAM STILL NEEDS DEAN! I know that's totally messed up, but THAT'S WHY I WATCH THIS SHOW!

Ezekiel was great! And now he's IN SAM! He's INSIDE SAM! (we will get some Ezekiel/Sam won't we? Won't we?! It's gotta be Samkeil surely?! Or Ezesam! *smirk* ) SAM HAS AN ANGEL! (and holy crap that's all kind of wrong and messed up and awesome. *guh* I hope they do some amazing stuff with that). ETA: Ha! Apparently there's running joke about this on the set. They clarify this as an angel looking through Sam - not inside him.

If Dean is paired with Cas and Sam is paired with Zeke does this mean they'll all live happily ever after with their own angels? Teehee...

Will Zeke be using Sam's soul to repair himself -like Cas had to do when he touched Bobby's soul? That could open up an interesting can of worms.

Grand Canyon! Way to make up for their last gaff. Great little "yeah, we know we messed up" to us.

Death is IMPRESSED by Sam! (awesome scene <3)

We got work to do! \o/

So. Great episode - (which I actually appreciated more on the second viewing). Lots of delicious potential! I am back in my happy SPN place - that was just messed up enough to make me really excited for the future eps. BRING IT!! (now please...)

Note/disclaimer about my review posts: Even though I re-read my posts I am terrible at proof reading so sorry for the mistakes. I love hearing other people's opinions on an episode, even if they are not in sync with mine. So feel free to let me know what you thought if you want to! :)

Comments

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I wondered if that might be a reading of it. I actually can't deny that interpretation. I don't take it quite like that (even with the comment about Sam having an angel inside him), but I do see his non consent as a major issue that should be addressed this season. I think more the issue is that Sam had Lucifer inside him and clearly that wasn't a good experience. Dean has agreed for Sam to experience that again - only hopefully (from Dean's pov) it's a "good" force and therefore the angel presence will not be harmful.

I think because possession is a major part of the spn 'verse (so almost common), this as a "cure" is probably being treated as merely a possession and not something as abhorrent as rape. It suggests that all possessed people are victims of rape - and I'm not sure if it's the same. But, as I said, I can't really challenge that interpretation.

Sam gave Dean consent to help him survive - which I know doesn't mean real consent when he doesn't know what he's actually agreeing to.

Messy.

I suspect there will be no coming back from this for you yeah?

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

It suggests that all possessed people are victims of rape - and I'm not sure if it's the same

I would argue that non-conseual possession which is effectively what Dean agreed to is worse than rape. Both Sam's body and mind are now under the influence of another being that has full power over how much (or little) control Sam is going to have over his own agency for an undisclosed period of time.

In my opinion no matter how it is spinned what Dean did is absolutely deporable. He robbed Sam of his free will and on top of that Sam was ready to die. This wasn't about saving Sam because Sam wanted to go on living, but about Dean sacrificing Sam's ability to make choices to meet his own selfish needs.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...yeah. I can't deny that interpretation. It's not how I see it, though I can see how it can be seen as that. It's very disturbing and I imagine for those who have read it like that will have struggle with SPN for now on. I imagine much of the first half of the season will deal with this very issue. We'll probably even have episodes where Sam may even struggle with the possession - or not. I have no idea what direction they plan to take. I think the consent will (well, should) be a major issue between them and it might not be something they will easily recover from.

I have to say the people i watched it with chatted about the episode for ages after and the notion of Dean giving permission for Sam to be (as good as) raped didn't come up at all. Dean not allowing Sam to die (again) did, as did Dean allowing Sam to be possessed when he knows Sam wouldn't want to be. I think they are going to be the major issues. Perhaps it should be more...and maybe it will be.

I'm really sorry to hear the episode not only didn't work for you, but created a situation that is deplorable.

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

I'm really sorry to hear the episode not only didn't work for you, but created a situation that is deplorable.

I'm sorry too I'm giving it till mid-season but I really think my time with the show is coming to an end.

And I've just had to seperate Dean into two beings pre Carver Dean (seasons 1-7) whom I positively adore. Then there is Carver Dean, this thing that looks and talks like Dean, but with the real Dean's flaws multipled by one hundred and all character growth forgotten is nothing like the Dean I love.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Dean (and Sam!) did some pretty douchey things last season. But there was some Dean growth (I felt) with his acceptance of other people in his life. Him making this decision now is Dean at his most desperate. Dean hasn't learned to not save Sam yet. It's a quality I actually love about him (his devotion to Sam), but equally it causes him to do some pretty dumb things.

A lot wil depend on how this is handled and what direction they plan to take to see what the over all plan is. But I feel ya. I was in this place (well, not quite as bad) at the beginning of last season.

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

I don't take it quite like that

What would you call enabling a serious violation of a person's body against their will? If Ezekiel had said "I had this magical sperm that will heal Sam but I need to fuck him to make it work" and Dean let him rape Sam to save his life, would you look at it a different way?

[casey28.livejournal.com]

There is a lack of real consent, but Ezekiel is there to help heal Sam, not "rape" him. In the end, Sam wanted to live. This was the only option. Otherwise, Sam is dead, with no other way to bring him back.

Do you think it's better for Dean to do nothing, and for Sam to die?

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

You have no idea what Ezekiel's intentions are, because we don't know Ezekiel.

Even Dean knew that Sam would rather die then be possessed, especially after Sam's history of systematic violation of his bodily autonomy (demon blood, Meg, Lucifer, the bodyswap episode, even Ruby's manipulation). Since we know that Sam isn't going to die, this is Carver's fault for writing himself into a corner where the only way to stop that is for Dean to enable a supernatural entity to violate his brother's body/mind/soul. It's gross, and I blame Carver for writing it, and also for likely not understanding why it's gross (like most of fandom)

[casey28.livejournal.com]

We do know that Sam is back on his feet, and Ezekiel gave control over to Sam at the end of the ep. So, the healing process has begun, and so far, Ezekiel is doing what he said he would. We don't know what'll happen in the future with Ezekiel.. it could turn out ok, or there could be issues, but this was Dean's only option to save Sam. Maybe Carver wanted Dean to be faced with a difficult decision that was "messy", rather than give an easier solution to the problem of Sam dying. What matters to me is that Dean made this choice out of love for Sam. It outweighs everything else.

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

You (like many in fandom) are romanticizing a really deep, disturbing violation, and that's the thing that is making me more uncomfortable than anything. You can't say "I love you so your consent over your own body doesn't matter" and then not think that's problematic.

For what it's worth, I love them co-dependent and fucked up and I love self-sacrificing Dean to bits. But I think there has to be a line in the sand that you just don't cross. I can't find any believable way for Sam to ever forgive him for this, without them seriously hand-waving the issues at hand. And then you have parts of fandom going "oh no, it's not Dean's fault! He did it out of love!" As a hardcore Deangirl, I think that's wrong.

[casey28.livejournal.com]

Letting Sam die would be crossing the line. Consent does matter, but in this circumstance, it was necessary to bypass that, so Sam could live. And yes, "he did it out of love", and there's nothing wrong with that. What's wrong with wanting Sam to live?

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

Do you think it's better for Dean to do nothing, and for Sam to die?

I know this wasn't directed at me so I hope you don't mind me answering.

I would rather that Dean had allowed Sam to make a fully informed decision and respected that decision. Dean should not have told Sam only vague truths about the solution he had in mind, but been upfront and honest and let Sam be the one to determine whether the price of his anatomy was worth paying. After all it is Sam's body, it is Sam's mind and it is Sam's memories that were violated in this episode not Dean's.

Sam is not just a puppet that Dean can manipulate when he does not agree with what Sam has chosen. After all Sam has been through over the years all the pain, all the things he has forced on him Sam should at the very least be allowed to choose for himself the manner of his death. If after being fully informed of the plans Sam decided he wanted to move on then that is Sam's decision. It is not right for Dean or anyone else to steal his basic freedom and right to die from him! It is a violation on so many fronts both mentally and physically it makes me ill to think of it.

[casey28.livejournal.com]

Dean knew that Sam wouldn't say "yes" to Ezekiel. So, we know what the outcome would've been if Dean had told Sam the truth. Sam would die. It bothers me that Sam's "right to die" is being made out to be more important than Sam being healed, alive, and still on the show.

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

Dean knew that Sam wouldn't say "yes" to Ezekiel. So, we know what the outcome would've been if Dean had told Sam the truth. Sam would die. It bothers me that Sam's "right to die" is being made out to be more important than Sam being healed, alive, and still on the show.

And it equally bothers me that fans are romanticising what is essentially mental and physical rape only at a much greater level of violation. Dean had no right whatsoever to trick Sam like that, it is Sam's life not Dean's and he has the right to make the important decisions about his life.

And no one is saying we want Sam off the show. We just object that the writers decided to lead things so Dean made such a gross and underhanded choice. The setup for season nine would have been the exact same; the angels would have been fallen, the brothers reunited and the civil war in hell had Sam been able to quit the trials without this gross scenario coming into play.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey,

I've been pondering on this overnight, because clearly it's a troublesome issue - but the thing that I find most difficult to accept is saying that possession is as bad, or worse than rape. Mainly because possession is fictional - it's not a real life thing and therefore it can, essentially before whatever the writers or the show make it (and sure, it's not a nice thing in this 'verse). I also think by making that comparison it somehow trivialises the very real world act of rape. I don't know (and fortunately I can't speak from experience) but I would say a rape victim wouldn't take too kindly to something that's fictional being told it's worse than what they've experienced.

Now...that's not so say it's not iike rape. It could certainly be argued that possessing a persons body and mind is like rape (maybe...even then I struggle with that, because I think what that is actually possession - which is bad enough in itself). The consent issue IS hugely problematic and my hope (as I said in the review) is that that is EXACTLY what this season is going to focus on for Dean (and Sam). It needs to be address because it wasn't when Dean mind wiped Lisa, or killed Amy or returned Sam's soul - or killed himself for Sam. This is an issue that has been lurking around Dean for a long time - what line do you cross for love? I think this has potential to be extremely interesting - as long as they handled it well.

[casey28.livejournal.com]

It isn't the same thing as rape. And saying that you would support Sam's decision if he wanted to move on... if that happened on the show, then Sam would be gone.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

On thinking on this overnight (and yeah - it's pretty much been all I've been thinking about) - it's comes down to the nature of possession and how possession works (is viewed etc) in the SPN 'verse. I think this is an extremely sensitive subject and liking a fictional creation of possession (this isn't actually a real thing) to rape could potentially be seen has trivialising rape. I know that's not what you mean here at all - I know this boils down to a consent issue - which clearly exists, but to likening possession to rape is problematic for me.

Also, romanticising Dean's decision is, I think (I will have to mull this over some more) the nature of the messed up, co-dependent screwy love for each other they have. This adds another layer (and I agree, it could be argued not a good layer) to that mess.

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's trivializing rape at all, I just think it's putting it into terms in a real life context that can best show the seriousness of the violation. A seriousness that these writers have shown to disregard and misunderstand in the past. That's worrisome to me, but we can agree to respecfully disagree on this part (because I do have a lot of respect for you and your investment in the show).

In my opinion, this particular transgression has nothing to do with love. I am all for "LETS BE ZOMBIES, DEAN!" style fucked up co-dependency, but Sam wouldn't have strapped Dean down to a table and forced it on him, you know? Do you see the difference? Does that mean Sam didn't want Dean to live or that he wasn't willing to sacrifice himself, it just meant that there was a respect for bodily autonomy that went completely out the window last night.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey. Yeah, I totally get where you are coming from and it's is a way of comparing the seriousness of it. Someone below used the word "violation" - which I probably feel more comfortable with - it's still extremely serious and Sam's body and mind have been violated - no doubt. I think respectfully agreeing to disagree on the most appropriate terminology is a good way to go. :)

it just meant that there was a respect for bodily autonomy that went completely out the window last night.

True. Can't disagree with that. And I hope it's an issue they plan to address as the season goes on. (And I think the nature of bodily autonomy and possession on this show is a rather huge issue. If we think about how they seem to disregard vessels now, where once it was a big deal for them to kill a host. The victim is rarely mentioned these days).

I'm also curious...I can't recall (which, I know I should!) if Sam has ever been put into a situation where he's had to make a life and death decision for Dean? He tried to bargain his soul when Dean died and...that's it I think (?). He assumed Dean was dead in S8 - so maybe deciding not to look for him was his way of respecting that fact that Dean had died and he should stay dead.

But I agree that I don't think Sam would respond the same way to Dean dying (though hard to know for sure because so much depends on what the writers need to do to tell the story...). Dean has been given the burden of making this dreadful decision - but I don't think the way fans are romanticising it is them (or us..;D) saying that non con is ok. It's trying to get into Dean's head and find reasons (that we can live with) as to why he's done this. And his co-dependent, messed up love/need for Sam is what it comes back to. Wrong? Probably. But it's the SPN universe and they often cross that line (and probably not always intentionally).

[zubeneschamali.livejournal.com]

I can't recall (which, I know I should!) if Sam has ever been put into a situation where he's had to make a life and death decision for Dean?

"Faith"? Someone else's death was the price for Dean living.

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

Also, romanticising Dean's decision is, I think (I will have to mull this over some more) the nature of the messed up, co-dependent screwy love for each other they have. This adds another layer (and I agree, it could be argued not a good layer) to that mess.

See the thing is for myself and other viewers I've talked to Dean's actions do not come across as love but Dean sacrificing Sam's basic right to freedom and autonomy to meet his own selfish needs. Sam was ready to move on he had even specifically requested for Death not to bring him back, which Dean knew. Yet instead of allowing Sam who has the right to decide with full awareness what to do with his life, his body, his mind and his spirit to make the final call. Dean betrayed his trust and allowed for him to be violated to the greatest extent possible. Dean's actions were about meeting his needs and controlling Sam to get his own way.

If Sam had been in full awareness of the plan or adamantly against the idea of dying I'd have seen it as love! But this way it was a truly selfish act in my opinion. Dean himself might not even think of it as selfish, but it was. He sacrificed Sam's needs and wishes to meet his own.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I think this does come down to interpretation. And I respect everyone's interpretation, but I don't see that Sam was ready to move on. Well, not in a way that Dean was happy with. Sam was prepared to live - he agreed in the end to Dean helping him - even though he didn't know what it was that Dean was going to do. He trusted him enough to let him try. Sam made peace with dying to "his" Dean - not to the real Dean. The way I read it is that Dean is looking and seeing a Sam who is not looking at the situation with full clarity - a bit like someone who wants to kill themselves. The weight of their depression can sometimes cloud their judgement. Sam wants to die so no one else will be hurt - not because he's ready to go (my interpretation of course).

I do not deny Dean's act was selfish. I've always thought that about Dean - especially after he sold his soul for Sam. He did that without any consideration about how sam would deal with the fall out. For me, I see that as worse than what he's done here. This time it's about Sam living and that's his aim. I personally don't think it was just so he could have Sam by his side again (though that's certainly part of it). I honestly believe he felt that Sam would be dying thinking he was a complete screw up and the world was better off without him. Dean doesn't want Sam dying like that. I think Dean would be more than happy for Sam to die a peaceful death, if he truly thought Sam was at peace with himself. And I don't think Sam would have said yes at the end if he really really wanted to die.

It's a conundrum for sure and I think the reading on that episode is so varied because of character interpretations. I've read many views and they all hold weight.

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

I personally don't think it was just so he could have Sam by his side again (though that's certainly part of it). I honestly believe he felt that Sam would be dying thinking he was a complete screw up and the world was better off without him

See I get where you are coming from but at the same time I actually think Sam has a legitimate reason for thinking the way he did. I don't think Sam hates himself or sees himself as an absolute screw up. There are several points where his sub-conscious highlights the fact that Sam is well aware of the good he has done... Whether it's 'Bobby' pointing out the fact that Sam was the one who rescued him from purgatory or 'Bobby' talking about how he has helped save the world and done a lot of good in his life. Then I think Sam had the validation he needed through the words of Death...

I think what Sam feared was the negative consequences that Dean bringing him back would have hence his insistence that if he were to go with Death it has to be final. And Sam has good reason for worrying about that and he certainly makes alot more sense to me than Dean. The last time Sam died and Dean interfered it led to Dean going to hell which in turn led to the rise of Lucifer and the apocalypse. Sam I think has realised the unforeseen consequences his and Dean's continued meddling with the natural order can have on those around them and wanted that vicious cycle to end.

I do not deny Dean's act was selfish. I've always thought that about Dean - especially after he sold his soul for Sam. He did that without any consideration about how sam would deal with the fall out. For me, I see that as worse than what he's done here.

See I consider what happened here to be worse because at the end of the day it was Dean's soul that was sold and Dean was making a self-sacrifice. Dean was making the choice about his own fate. Whereas here Dean is actually stealing that right to choose from Sam and has effectively made him into a puppet. I find that abhorrent and sickening...

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I too see what Dean did as rape, but it's very Dean in so many respects. It's not that there is no coming back from it for me. I know you said that Dean would listen to Sam if he were there, but I remember all the times Dean didn't listen to Sam. He said Sam wanted normal, Sam said he wanted safe. In Salvation Sam expressed how much he wanted to go back to his life if they killed the demon, Dean didn't want to hear it. Sam wanted to talk about how he felt about John dying, Dean said it was too little too late. Dean actually discounts Sam a lot of the time, especially when it involves what Sam wants for himself.

So if Dean will finally look at the side of him that makes decisions for Sam, without Sam's consent, then maybe this can make the relationship healthier and stronger. Sam needs to learn to trust himself and Dean needs to learn to respect Sam's choices. Dean needs to stop being parental and to be more of a partner.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I must admit my understanding of what rape is is clearly different to some others interpretation. I agree with EVERYTHING else, but to liken the very serious, violent nature of rape with a fictional possession is something I just cannot agree with. But, as I said to tebtosca it will need to be something we respectfully agree to disagree with. ;)

As for everything else said here - yes yes. So much yes about Dean not actually listening to Sam. Though Sam didn't actually tell Dean he wanted to die. He told "his" Dean he wanted to die. Sam didn't actually say that to Dean - so all Dean knows is that Sam wants to die because he thinks he's done enough damage, Dean knows that Sam will die thinking he's a failure - and Dean doesn't want that for Sam (not denying he wants Sam to stay with him, but there's also a question of the nature in which Sam is choosing to die). Suicide is probably too strong a word - but I'm wondering if that's how Dean sees it.