9.09 ep reaction/review

[ash48]

Thank you Show! You did not let me down.:D That was an epic mid season ender. Answered a HEAP of questions, gave us some (mostly) great moments and left us wondering…what next?!

I was worried that Ross-Leming and Buckner couldn't deliver the mid-season ender so I was mostly relieved that it gave me a lot more than I expected. Sure, it lacked fineness (but I am past expecting that), but it hit a lot of what I needed going into the hiatus. Mostly answers.

Stuff:

Did any one else yell out "single perfect tear" at the end?! Oh man, I know it was a sad moment (and I did feel a pang of sadness) but I was hanging out for the Single Perfect Tear and I wasn't let down! I actual said out loud "there it is!". Kudos to Jensen though because I really felt the depth of his utter realisation of how much Dean FUCKED UP! But maybe I should have been bawling my eyes out? Have I been watching this show too long?

I gotta say Kevin's death came as absolutely no surprise to me (hey! It's Supernatural!). To be honest, a lot of that stems from feeling that he has worn out his usefulness (in terms of his character). I thought the episode did him justice though. He was a used and a rather abused character and his death empathised that. Sad, but I have to admit I'm not going to be mourning his lost that much (*yikes* sorry). I love Osric (such a passionate supporter of the show and seems like a genuinely lovely person), but Kevin's storyline ran out a little while ago so him dying was totally on the cards (and set up from the beginning of the season). Also - we'll no doubt see him again in some form ;D.

Jared must be suffering whiplash after that ep. Great transitions between his characters. Really loved the work he was doing. Initially Gadriel (Gadreel?) came across as somewhat sympathetic (I think it was Jared's puppy eyes) but then noooooooo……..oh so evil…..(with perhaps the potential to redeem himself maybe?). (The card on the body was a bit cheesy mind…)

The angel war is rather ho hum to me - but I wasn't exactly bored by it. I think it was kinda epic enough to move past my "oh, just get on with it". I recognised a bigger pictured needed to be told, even though I really don't care that much about it. Two sides equally awful? Hmmm….

But WHY are angels such dicks? I wonder if they'll ever address that? Maybe too much paradise is bad for you. Or something.

I was going to rant about Sam not saying more about "missing time" when he got back from the long beer run, but by then Gadriel was well and truly in charge so yeah - I LIKED! (in hindsight)

I LOVED Dean's confession to Sam and then I HATED that Sam didn't actually hear any of it! (though I suppose we'll find out how much Sam is aware in future episodes).

I LOVED that not!Sam (Gad!Sam? Samdriel?) mentioned "choice". Even though it wasn't actually Sam I love that the whole issue was addressed and that it suggests that Gadriel knew Sam VERY WELL, so he knew how to be Sam.

Once again I'm all over the place with Cas. Seeing them all together again was actually nice (and boy do I CRAVE Sam and Cas interactions…we never get much of that. What we did get in this episode was so warm and genuine. I liked it a lot. Dean and Cas on the other hand is always just so damn murky. That "profound bond" sure adds a weird layer to everything. Seriously, remove the destiel stuff (and I don't mean that in any way other than trying to look at these two without that added layer) and what goes on with these two? There's equal levels of awkwardness and fondness. It actually confuses me. But then, I think the way they are writing Dean this season is a little confusing. It's almost like the Sam of last season. The first half of last season set Sam up to be the "wrong" one because he didn't look for Dean. This time it's Dean's turn maybe? Perhaps Dean is all over the place because of him decision to let an angel possess Sam without his consent….or something. I don't know.

I do know that I'm still really REALLY invested (damn you Show!). I like the tangled web of messiness. There's a sense of epicness that I'm appreciating but the nature of humanness and being flawed is shining through.

I like that as much as it isn't the show it used to be it's still so very (very!) much the show it used to be (and yep, I'm going to be posting about this at a later date…).

Summing up in brief:

Metatron is beyond slimy and how anyone trusts him is beyond me.
Cas without the trench coat makes me happy.
Cas has another angel's grace… O_o (back to instant problem solving?)
Cas working an angle to get out of danger = clever. Thank you.
Cas torture made me uncomfortable (looks like I can only tolerate Sam and Dean being tortured. what the…?)
Dean's bossy when Sam is in danger
Dean's just plain bossy
Kevin's dead (for which he might actually be thankful for- but what was that about Kevin's mom then?)
Sam is screwed
Dean is screwed
Cas is… ? God knows! (maybe he actually does?)
Gadriel is curious. I'm looking forward to knowing more.
Malachi has potential - but will probably die before we know more
A lot of vessels died :(
Religious institutions are taking a hammering lately
Faith seems to be respected - "institutions" not so much. I'm ok with that.
Not a lot of SamnDean, but it's all about SamnDean so I'm ok with that (and we've had a LOT of SamnDean and I knew we were heading here so that's ok).
No demons? Probably saving for later.
Gadriel has been imprisoned and so has Sam. Nice.
Sam is, once again, not in control of his body. Not so nice, but could be interesting!
"Sam" killed Kevin. He didn't but man, how Sam survives this is beyond me.
WE STILL HAVE THE FALL OUT FROM SAM FINDING OUT! (I WANT THIS SCENE FOR REALS NOW!!!)
What's gonna happen next?!?! *FLAILS* Still so much potential. (I have to say I had a moment when I thought Sam had actually made the choice to embrace the angel within. That would have screwed with my head I have to say- probably in a good way! Or bad -I DON'T KNOW!)

So yeah. I liked it. I enjoyed watching - which counts a lot for how I react to an ep. I figure there's a bigger discussion about how we are doing this far into the season but I can't gather my thoughts about it right now. Or what it means for Sam to be possessed by something he doesn't know about. What I do know is that I am in a much better place than I was this time last year. :)

Comments

[d0llface-h00ker.livejournal.com]

I found it amusing that when I looked up 'Gadriel' on wiki what popped up was 'Azazel' (= YED) which is all levels of interesting. So when I looked up 'Gadreel'? It also mentions 'Azazel' WTF. Have we looped all the way back around to the beginning seasons except Gedreel (Azazel) REALLY has his hooks in Sam? Demon Angels will be the new new bad guys?

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh man!! That's so freaky!! I wonder if there's a connection. And demon angels make a lot of sense actually. There doesn't seem to be any difference between demons and angels….

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

Nice to see you found the ep rewarding.

I'm just devastated about Kevin, though my firend says (probably correctly) that I'm confusing my affection for Osric and his character.

Will we ever get the boys back as a team?

[growyourwings.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think I'm also confusing Kevin with Osric. Especially after seeing Osric for the first time at Burcon. I now *get* all the "Osric is amazing" stuff. And while Kevin went from I-don't-get-why-everyone-loves-him for me to oh-it's-Kevin-again-ok. OSRIC went to yeah!Osric.

So yeah, I think my reaction has more to do with Osric then Kevin. In fact as I was typing my comment here to Ash I found myself interchanging Osric/Kevin's names all the time.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think Osric has brought such a wonderful energy to the show and to fandom - I separating the two is very hard.

And SURE we'll see them back again!! It's a tried and true formula of separations and reunions. It's a theme quite dear to me (considering the past metas I've written on it). Part of the…er…fun, is seeing how they will be reconciled. Let's just hope ti doesn't take them toooooo long.

xx

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

I was TERRIFIED when I found out who the writers were. Such a pleasant surprise. And yup, agreed with everything you said. (So many questions about Gadriel/Gadreel and his possible connection to Lucifer, soooo many. And was it just me, or did he look almost remorseful when he looked at Dean after saying he'd done what he had to do? So many layers to this character -- and Jared knocked 'em all out of the park.)

Not a lot of SamnDean, but it's all about SamnDean so I'm ok with that

Agreed. I was about to get all snarky about that, then realized that pretty much everything that happened was about them.

Also? By the time the angels are done rumbling, Earth won't need to worry about overpopulation anymore. ;)

That final scene. OMG, Deeeeeeean! *cries*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It WAS a pleasant surprise. I have a feeling through that there would have been a lot of input from Carver and maybe even other writers.

or did he look almost remorseful when he looked at Dean after saying he'd done what he had to do

I think there was an attempt at remorse. But I'm not sure I buy it. Anyone who is willing to kill someone (and a prophet no less!) can't be good. He is definitely shady - even if he is remorseful. (much like Sam was toward the end of S4. He was doing some awful things, but to him they were right).

By the time the angels are done rumbling, Earth won't need to worry about overpopulation anymore. ;)

I know!! So many deaths in one ep.../o\

[strive2bhappy.livejournal.com]

when gadriel said "there is no more sam, but i played him convincingly i thought" he meant just in the warded room, right? he wasn't talking since the hospital in the beginning of the season, right?

ASH!!! RIGHT??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

*flails and quivers and waits for your confirmation*

[counteragent.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think they just meant the warded room. Although it was nice that it was ambiguous.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi…yes yes yes…He only meant from the warded room. Though I think it was when he returned with the beers. It rang utterly false that Sam wouldn't have said something like "I don't know why it took so long".

And there's NO WAY I can accept we haven't seen Sam all season. I mean, we haven't exactly seen a lot of Sam anyway, but what we did see what definitely him.

[bluestar1820.livejournal.com]

I actually really think the whole Gadriel thing is going to going to end up a redemption arc, which I am kind of okay with. I am kind of sick that we very rarely see angels on Sam and Dean side. I always sit there and go 'really another evil angel?' I am still crying over Kevin's death though. I really loved the character, though I will admit you are kind of right in saying that his character had been played out. I just wish they had thought of another way to write him off, like they did with Charlie.

[counteragent.livejournal.com]

I think that it is going to be a redemption arc, too, which I actually dislike because it means that the effect of Sam's suffering will be lessened because look the angel was good, you guys.

But I will wait to see how they play it. It could be interesting.

Like you, I think it's weird that every angel is a dick, heh.

[jessm78.livejournal.com]

Did any one else yell out "single perfect tear" at the end?!

OMG I did!!! Jensen really nailed it.

Yeah, Kevin's death wasn't exactly a surprise to me; it just seemed like there wasn't much more for him to do.

I am so, so glad I am not the only one who finds the angel war "ho hum."

I noticed religious institutions taking a hammering lately too. As someone who is somewhat religious (don't kill me! lol) I just don't take it seriously or think "omg it's the writers/cast trying to inflict their views on us/teach us a serious point"! I just separate myself from it and realize it's just a tv show. I don't take it seriously. And like I said, the whole angel war thing being pretty ho hum to me kinda helps.

The fallout from Sam finding out is gonna be huge, I think. I'm nervous about what's going to happen. I predict he'll walk away. Probably not long term, but maybe something like we saw in early season 5. I'm going to make myself crazy guessing what will actually happen, so that's about it for me lol. They really left us on a big cliffhanger here!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I am so, so glad I am not the only one who finds the angel war "ho hum."

I'm struggling to find anyone who is interested in the angel war. I suppose they must be around, just not seeing if from my flist.

As someone who is somewhat religious (don't kill me! lol)

Ha! Oh my goodness I would never do that. Each to their own… :DD , it's just curious to me that a show that has pretty much stayed away from religion (as such) as had more to "say" about it recently.

The fall out is going to be (well, should be) massive! Arghhh….

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

It's Gadreel, not Gadriel. Gadreel was basically one of Lucifer's generals during the rebellion, and was thought to actually be the serpent in the Garden of Eden. Also, he was the one that introduced the weapons of war to mankind.

Of course, right now they aren't using any of that potential and are playing it like he was just some dumb guard who accidentally let Lucifer into the Garden, instead of being the serpent himself. We can always count on SPN for wasted story potential!

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Apparently it can be either spelling, but one of the SPN team tweeted it was Gadreel. Interestingly Gadreel also introduced sex to humans and procreated with them! According to one reference I found... LOL

reply

[phx69.livejournal.com]

That does pretty much sum things up. it was nice to see Cas take care of himself and get grace back. He should be kick-ass and not a bumbling victim all the time so I did enjoy that. And I feel he is going to be needed as Dean goes to war against the angels to get Sam back. I do not believe that Sam is "gone" and perhaps Cas will have more insight into that. I won't miss Kevin. I thought the whole prophet thing was cheesy and this just means that another prophet will be called.

Gladreil wants to redeem himself. I find that interesting then as his mission is to kill one of God's children. Are there no good angels? I do find that a bit tiresome. The angels are continually shown like the mafia and exactly demon-like. That is wearing for me and probably while I do not enjoy angel episodes. I want my Clarence, G-damnit! LOL!!!!

So much fallout to come... Jensen was right when he said in an interview that of course everything blows up in Dean's face and he will have to deal with the fallout.

And Sam, oh, Sammy... another possession. I would have honestly thought, by now, that the show would consider that a very well done plot line. Jared knocked it out of the park playing both sides but I kind of feel that we are back to a soulless Sam scenario and I am not sure what to think about that. So I am not going to think about it too much and I am going to happily wait until next season.

I enjoyed the episode and that is all I can ask. But after 8 years of watching, Dean's tear - while well played - didn't affect me like it used it. I wondered though who the tear was for: Kevin? Sam? or himself?

Good episode.

Re: reply

[ash48.livejournal.com]

And I feel he is going to be needed as Dean goes to war against the angels to get Sam back.

Yeah, it's the only way I can see that he will be able to come back into the story line and having grace will probably help in some way.

and this just means that another prophet will be called.

Yeah, a lot of people have said another prophet will arrive on the scene. I'm not sure what they need another prophet for. I know the angel tablet still needs to be interpreted but I think if Crowley was right in saying there's no way to reverse the spell. I wouldn't be surprised if they bury the whole angel / demon tablet story line pretty soon. But I could be completely wrong.

I find that interesting then as his mission is to kill one of God's children. Are there no good angels?

Seems not. I'm not sure how heaven has got such a good reputation when the angels all seem to be out for themselves.

Sammy... another possession

I'm wondering how long Sam will actually remain possessed now. I think if we have another 1/2 season of Sam as someone else then I won't be too happy. I love Sammy and I want to see more of him. I love that Jared is so good at being "other", but I miss my boy when he's constantly someone else. I think he'll be unpossessed soon-ish and then we'll have to deal with the fallout between the brothers. Then they'll have to get back together to save the day….

I wondered though who the tear was for: Kevin? Sam? or himself?

All of the above! I got the sense that the enormity of well, EVERYTHING, was finally realised. Though, I have no idea why Dean actually thought it would all work out anyway. It never does for them….:(

Poor boys.
xx

[growyourwings.livejournal.com]

I'm going to have to come back later to comment. Because I'm still kinda recovering from last night. The first half of the episode I was thinking this was a rather ho-hum mid-season cliffhanger (mostly because Cas+angel wars aren't that overall interesting to me.) Then the Gadreel reveal (which perked me up a bit and I was not expecting.) Metatron being sleezy both repulsed me and had twinges of angel-stuff-not-that-interesting-but-yet-it-is (so I was confused in my reactions). Then the last 10-15 minutes happened. I *was* surprised/floored by Kevin's death. I was not expecting it at all. I had assumed it was Cas's name on that piece of paper (which, ... yawn...again).

And for someone who started out not *getting* all the yeah!Kevin/Osric stuff that went on when Kevin's character was first introduced, I found myself *very* upset by Kevin's death. And I was sure that Cas's returned Grace (more on this in a moment) would mean an insta-cure for Kevin. Then I read Osric's twitter post (just now I wrote "Kevin's twitter post" which shows for me it's likely OSRIC that has impacted me.) And I'm just in denial. I agree with what you say here that Kevin's character was kinda an appendage that perhaps had worn out it's welcome (is that a mixed metaphor?) But I was still so devastated.

And now that I think on it. I think I was devastated because DEAN was devastated - Dean is just so very devastated. I'm sure he (and me) thought he had lost so much in his life that he couldn't possibly be impacted at his core again. But yet, there he is. Again. And that OPT - just killed me.

And when Cas stole that other angel's Grace I actually yelled out loud, "WTF?! Can he DO that?!" My daughter, who was in the room, looked at me very strangely (lol). I hadn't much thought about it after the Sam/Gadreel/Kevin stuff. But what you speculate here makes sense.

Well I guess I won't have to come back after all. Glad I got that out. I don't think I've been this impacted by a mid-season cliffhanger ep in a while. Show did it's job well I guess.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey honey!

I actually expected Dean's name to be on the piece of paper tbh. I thought the cliff hanger would be "Sam" trying to kill Dean. But when it turned out to be Kevin I thought…"oh of course… that makes sense". I mean, it's not nice to have lost, yet another, spn character but in terms of the way they structure their characters, stories and cliff hangers it made perfect sense. And of course after Kevin talked about "trusting" Dean I knew something bad was going to have to happen to him. I was surprised that "Sam" killed him, but not surprised it went that way. (if that makes ANY sense.../o\)

I think I was devastated because DEAN was devastated

Oh yes. Dean's full realisation of what he'd done and his utter devastation was heartbreaking. But I think this really needed to happen to Dean and I am glad it's happened now. I am still curious to see how the full fall out will effect him (and Sam!) - it's going to get pretty messy I think.

And when Cas stole that other angel's Grace I actually yelled out loud, "WTF?! Can he DO that?!

Well, he can now! This writing team like to create new canon so he's another piece. I suppose he could have always been able to do it - but just not desperate enough to actually do it.

*hugs* I think they did a good job too.

xox

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I kind of didn't enjoy watching this one very much - and I've been trying to pinpoint why. I think it's because I really don't care about the angel war and angel politics other than where it impacts on the boys, and it wasn't until Metatron turned up that it started to impact. I also found too much of a disconnect between Sam and Dean which I know was partially intentional as it was setting up the Gadriel take over but still...I felt they were kind of disengaged (which of course might have been because I was kind of disengaged). All of my investment in this one was packed into the end, and then they went and killed off poor old Kevin. Sigh.

I'm actually more interested in the what happens next than in what happened in the episode.

Especially ""Sam" killed Kevin. He didn't but man, how Sam survives this is beyond me." and of course, Dean failed to prevent it happening and in many ways set it up, so will inevitably blame himself.

The potential fallout is definitely awesome.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I have to say I was pretty engaged through most of it. It think when the angel factions confronted each other I wasn't all that interested, especially as both side are complete dicks. It might be interesting later on - perhaps when Sam and Dean are more involved, but at the moment it's hard to care too much about it.

We are definitely in for a rough times ahead. Sam's "body" has, once again killed someone and this time Dean is totally responsible. I did like that Gadreel knew exactly what to say as Sam when Dean confessed. I think Gad has a good handle on Sam. I wonder if we'll ever know how much Sam can "see". He could see when Meg and lucifer possessed him (and remembered what soulless Sam did), so maybe he can see what's happening. He'll find out about Kevin soon enough…:((

I'm pretty happy with the turns this took. I think we are in for some great angsty times ahead. *rubs hands*

[alienat.livejournal.com]

Since when I found out who was writing the mid-season finale I kept my expectations low. Good thing I did. It wasn't their worst episode by far, but it really didn't flash me - not after watching the mid-season finale of The Walking Dead and having my heart ripped out and stopped on.

So yeah, I'm not happy. Best thing about this whole episode was the last lets say ten minutes. Everything else was just meh for me. I couldn't honestly care less about the angel war or Cas or whatever.

Kevin's death didn't shock me, but I guess if you say that his character has long lost his purpose - I just feel bitter that they're still keeping Cas on while killing Kevin off, even if rightfully so.

Right now I'm afraid to turn on when they come back in January, because I don't think I'll like where the story is going. I'll be so pissed if Gadreel will keep possessing Sam for long.

We had so many great episodes this season. Episodes with Sam and Dean being back together and which felt a lot like season 1/2 episodes. If they go back to screwing it up now and give us such a disappointing half, like the first half of season 8, I'm gonna throw a fit. ;)

Best thing about this is Jared's acting. And Jensen's of course too. Single tear was amazing as always. Kudos to both of them.

Sorry for the rant, hon. :D I hope you can forgive me. :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey,

I'm sorry to hear you're weren't happy with the ep hun. I understand though - the angel story line isn't exactly riveting (though I'm sure there must be some who find it interesting…maybe) .

I just feel bitter that they're still keeping Cas on while killing Kevin off, even if rightfully so.

Yeah, well, Cas is EXTREMELY popular so killing him off - even though his storyline is well and truly over - isn't an option. I think this season has been designed so that they have a reason to keep him around. I've learned to embrace it, otherwise I wouldn't survive watching it each week that Cas is in it (and we have a lot more to come, so brace yourself).

I'll be so pissed if Gadreel will keep possessing Sam for long.

I would be surprised if they keep him in Sam for too long. Now that the cat is out the bag I think there will be a race to rescue Sam from his angel. It would be sad to not see Sam for a lot of eps. Soulless!Sam was long enough.

But yeah - the Js were great. :))

And no need to apologise for "ranting". I love hearing all the different reactions (even if they don't match my own).

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

I watched the ep just now... I'm still in shock... *doesn't have an appropriate icon*

*reads your post*

Did any one else yell out "single perfect tear" at the end?!

I wasn't shouting anything (too busy sitting stunned with my mouth hanging open) but I registered and apprechiated that tear, too. Made my heart break for Dean. *sniff*

Kevin.. I had gotten so used to him being around and liked him so much, when that angel started killing him I was all: Oh no! That can't be! And still hoped that Dean would make it in time to save him. (Naive.. I know.. lol)

But WHY are angels such dicks?...Maybe too much paradise is bad for you.

Hahaha! *hugs you laughing* ;D

Cas has another angel's grace… O_o (back to instant problem solving?)

Not nescessarily. The grace isn't his. Could create unexpected problems. (I hope. :D)

No demons? Probably saving for later.

They are waiting for the angels to kill each other before they show up again. lol ;)

Gadreel said there is no more Sam and apparently he has been supressing and playing Sam since he found out that Dean was doing this spell thing on the wall. (Or since he talked to Mete?) Gadreel smudged it. He showed his dirty fingers. So the spell didn't work or worked in his favour. Did I get that right? Does that mean Sam is actually dead? Or supressed "only"?

I WANT THE NEXT EP NOW !!!! O_O

I'm so glad you enjoyed this ep, too! ^_^ *hugs*

xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*doesn't have an appropriate icon*

That's not like you! Your icons usually match perfectly! ;D

Kevin.. I had gotten so used to him being around and liked him so much

Yeah, Kevin was becoming such a comfortable character to have around. But I think once the tablets had worn out their story line, the prophet had also. Though, maybe the tablets will still be important and Kevin will be resurrected. I think he's become a well loved character so he'll probably be back…;)

So the spell didn't work or worked in his favour. Did I get that right? Does that mean Sam is actually dead? Or supressed "only"?

Yeah, it meant the spell didn't work and for some reason he "acted" like Sam (rather than just come clean straight away). I know that was just for story telling purposes by I wonder why he put on the "act". Maybe just to torment Dean (which means he's evol!)

I didn't take "Sam's gone" to mean he's dead. Just possessed and no longer himself. I mean…I hope he's not dead (though if he IS, maybe it will give Dean a chance for a do over and get Sam to make a decision about whether he lives or dies for himself….hmm…..)

I want the new ep NOW too! Though when it airs I will be on holiday so I'm hoping to be able to grab a DL. I'm sure I can work something out! :))

[cordelia-gray.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you can always find things to like about every episode! You are such a lovely, sunny presence :)

(I will keep my seething quietly to myself.)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I can mostly find positive stuff to say about an ep if I enjoyed watching it. It's only when I am utterly bored or that the brothers are at odds with each other for no good reason that I get ranty and negative.

Oooh, so what's making you seeth? Kevin's death?

Sorry to hear you're unhappy though. :(

[callistosh65.livejournal.com]

I ditto passionatley just about everything you say here. Dean is all over the map a bit this season, and I know what you mean about Destiel. Take it out and really, what are they anymore? Though I did enjoy the bar scene with the 3 of them. Like that, I get a kick out of Castiel. But when it's just him, I'm afraid I fidget. And the angels as prissy, buttoned-up dicks is waaaaaaay old now.

Kevin had finally wormed his way in to my heart and he's gone - for now, at least. I agree, though, storywise he'd served his purpose and the timing of his exit is a good one ( Ahem, Glares at Castiel..).

But Sam and Zeke, and false reveals ( or not?) had me all verklempt and invested and looking at the calendar to see when they're back.

So onwards and upwards we go! True, a MUCH better place than this time last year. (::remembers Amelia and shudders::)

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

Oddly, I think I would take Amelia back in place of roaming angel gangs. :)

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

it was okay, i thought, man that hurt the ep at the end there yes i liked it, it was acceptable for me

[ash48.livejournal.com]

That's good to hear! :)

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

"I like that as much as it isn't the show it used to be it's still so very (very!) much the show it used to be (and yep, I'm going to be posting about this at a later date…)."

I agree with this in everything...but the angels. The angel subplot defies explanation. I just don't get how they are sitting around the writers' table, finding this fascinating.

But the boys are back and they feel very, very much true to who they have always been. And for that, I cannot complain, not one bit.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I just don't get how they are sitting around the writers' table, finding this fascinating.

Um…one word I think. Castiel. They really did need to find a good reason to keep him around and therefore bringing the angel war to earth seems to be the way (I didn't like it when they were "fighting" in heaven and now we have to watch it on earth). I suppose I wouldn't mind so much if the angels were actually interesting. But they aren't really taking the time to establish any of the angel characters. Even Zeke/Gad isn't all that interesting.

But as we have burning angel wings for the title we are definitely in for a whole season on them.

But I do love that we are back to the lengths Dean would go to for Sam. It's a continuing theme and one that I actually do love.
xx

[novakev.livejournal.com]

I loved this episode! Yes, there wasn't a lot of SamnDean, but Jared's acting was suberb, and none of the storyline sucked. Even Cas's scenes were good. I liked Malachi a lot too,

I've seen lots of comments about the parallels between Gadreel and Sam, but I saw the parallels between Gadreel and Lucifer, and I liked it too.

Kevin's death took me by surprise. I liked him and will miss his character. LOVE Osric - but he will remain in the fandom, I'm sure!!!

Dean's S.P.T. - a perfect ending.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yay! I'm so glad you enjoyed it. I think it's so much nicer when you can come away from an episode happy about it! :))

but I saw the parallels between Gadreel and Lucifer, and I liked it too.

oooh yes. I think Gadreel could be an interesting character - if they actually decide to do something with him…I hope they do!.

Bring on Act 2!

[casey28.livejournal.com]

Initially Gadriel (Gadreel?) came across as somewhat sympathetic (I think it was Jared's puppy eyes) but then noooooooo……..oh so evil…..(with perhaps the potential to redeem himself maybe?).

I don't see him as evil. Misguided and looking for redemption in all the wrong places, but not a bad guy. He's scared and doing what he thinks he has to, in order to survive. He definitely has the potential to redeem himself.

The first half of last season set Sam up to be the "wrong" one because he didn't look for Dean. This time it's Dean's turn maybe?

That's an interesting way of looking at it. Sam was the "wrong" one, mainly because he was written OOC. But with Dean, I really don't see what other choice he had. Sam would be dead, if "Ezekiel" hadn't possessed him. It would've been "wrong", if Dean had let Sam die.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I really lie your take on Zeke/Gadreel. I would be surprised if they make him completely "evil". We've had evil possessed Sam before, so it would be nice to have a change from that. I'm not sure I like that he "played" Dean when he was in the storeroom (though I accept that was for storytelling purposes) - he could have come straight out and said who he was (or maybe not at all). Killing Kevin will be a hard one to answer to. He might be misguided (much like Sam was and Dean is at the moment) - but an angel looking to do the right thing and killing a human isn't a great start. Still. It will be very interesting to see where it goes.

Sam was the "wrong" one, mainly because he was written OOC.

Yes. Very much so. I think what I meant was that last season they played Sam as the one who made a decision that later effected the boys' relationship. This season it's Dean who's done that. I think Dean is in character, though it's a very harsh side of his character admittedly. Dean didn't want Sam to die because he couldn't live without him (I'm so glad he actually admitted that), and allowing Sam to be possessed without telling him is not very cool of him. I actually liked that Gad!Sam mentioned Dean still not trusting Sam enough to tell him the truth and letting him make his own choice. I feel that Gadreel knows Sam well enough (after being in him for so long) that he knew exactly what Sam would say if he found out the truth.

We could be in for a very interesting second half. :))

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

The thing to remember is that the premiere set Dean up in a no-win situation--let Sam die or let him be possessed. Now the mature thing would have been to let Sam die...but that would have been unacceptable for the show to continue. The writers set the season up as impossible for Dean to handle, so fans who are upset with Dean's choice to let Sam be possessed really should be mad at the writers, not the character.

Dean did once make the decision to let Sam go (anyone remember Swan Song?) and that was huge character development...but Dean seems to have regressed as a result of the trauma of a year without Sam to never being able to be without him again. Sigh.

And the angel war is really boring. But my guess is that we are getting those scenes because a) the writers think it's cool to 'up the stakes' to a bigger picture than just hunting monsters and b) Jared and Jensen need a break.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

The writers set the season up as impossible for Dean to handle, so fans who are upset with Dean's choice to let Sam be possessed really should be mad at the writers, not the character.

I'm actually not that upset with the writers this season - I love the "impossible" situation they have put Dean in. I know many have had issues with the non con way it happened but as long as it's addressed at some point then it's not been something that has worried me too much.

but Dean seems to have regressed as a result of the trauma of a year without Sam to never being able to be without him again.

Oh I like this reasoning. I hadn't looked at it in terms of canon - but that works. For me both Dean and Sam have regressed because the show has continued. So many of the earlier issues are being rehashed and I actually don't really mind that - as long as they are on their way to some overall character arc conclusion (and allow Sam to have some POV and Dean to be involved in some other types of challenges). It's difficult because when exactly will the show end? 1,2,3 more years? They still have to find things for S&D to have issues about. when they didn't have issues between then (mostly S7) everyone cried that the season was boring. I don't envy the writers at all.

And yeah - the angels do create opportunities to give the Js a break and to give Cas a reason to still be around. Heaven knows what they will find Cas to do once the Heaven/Hell story lines have played out. They don't seem to have any intention of writing him out. I sure the few the fan backlash if they do that.