9.11 ep reaction / review
Jan. 24th, 2014 12:33 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ash48This may be the longest reaction/review I've ever written. It's far too long and I really should shorten it but there seems to be so much to say. It's a mix of reaction and an attempt to understand some things that were going on.
Sacrifice, love, family, friendship, betrayal, choice, loyalty, redemption, forgiveness, revenge, pain, purpose, awareness, stupidity and stubbornness. I'm sure I've missed a few but wow, this show is dealing with a lot of stuff.
I am rather blown away by the continued intensity and epicness of the issues this season. On the surface I felt this episode really delivered. A new myth arc is revealed (of which Dean seems to be the centre of) and more questions are opened up. Digging a little deeper I felt there were a few problems in the ep - but ultimately it didn't diminish my thorough enjoyment of it.
The story:
I suppose the show was always heading toward a Dean and Sam / Cain and Abel story line. They flirted with it in an earlier episode (5.13) stating that Sam and Dean are direct descendants of these biblical brothers (though wouldn't everyone be descendants in some way? ::not thinking too hard about that one::). It's a curous place to insert this new story direction. The angel possession issue still hangs over the brothers' heads, the fallen angels are still a major issue and the fight for leadership in Hell still rages. Clearly this isn't quite enough for the brothers to deal with so Dean is given the Mark of Cain which I imagine will be tied into the season finale somehow. Personally, I think this is pretty exciting. Sure they probably should stick to one problem at a time, but (if handled well) the mix could prove to be really interesting. I'm hesitant to speculate where they might be heading with this but I see some major angst heading into the season finale. ;) (Though man, can Dean take any more life consuming "burdens"? Surely he (and Sam!) have had their fill.
The characters
Dean
It's hard to know where to even start with Dean this season. I'm inclined to say it's been a messy journey (much like Sam's last season), but I actually think it's becoming clearer as the season progressed. I know some won't agree with this (seeing some comments throughout the season that Dean's only job is to get thrown around), but right from his highly questionable decision to let an angel possess Sam in the first episode he's been heading to the very moment he accepted the Mark of Cain. He needed to be full of enough self hatred that receiving it was unquestioned. He didn't care about the "burden" Cain mentioned. He's so full of revenge and low self worth that he just doesn't care. I know we've been here before with Dean (season five in particular), but I have no problem revisiting this (Carver seems to want to revisit many of the deeper character issues presented to us in earlier seasons). It's got a slightly different twist to the last time (less alcohol involved for instance) and I think this is probably a Dean who has even more self loathing that he's ever done before.
But this is the thing that struck me the most:
I posted this on tumblr earlier
This Dean reminded me SO MUCH of season 5's "future" (2014) Dean. There was a constant steely, murderous intent that Dean carried throughout the episode. I love the way Jensen maintained that. I have no idea if it was his (their) intention to mirror "future" Dean, but I rather loved it. I honestly don't think we are heading toward that particular version of the future (though I might just love it if they did!), but I rather love that they may be hinting at it.
Dean and Crowley
Jensen seems to create a very strong chemistry with whomever he plays opposite (particularly with male characters). As questionable as this partnership was it was fun to watch - there was definitely a level of energy between the two of them. I am so much happier with this version of Crowley than previous ones. He's much more conniving and mysterious. It's hard to know just how "bad" he is. Being turned into a human at the end of the last season casts doubt over his level of evilness. I think the dialogue between Dean and Crowley was some of the best in the episode.
Dean and Cain
The chemistry was there again between Dean and Cain. There was a simmering danger and wariness between them. I actually felt Dean's "bravery" (though some might call it stubbornness or stupidity) as he kept hounding Cain. Dean sure seemed to have a death wish (again, much like the Dean we saw in S5 just before he said yes to Michael).
The actor playing Cain was perfect. He gave it the gravitas the character needed (I haven't actually seen this actor before. Clearly I have been living under a rock). He was fabulous to watch.
One of my absolute favourite moments in the episode was that little scene of Cain's POV (by his wife's grave). We didn't really need that scene, but it brought a wonderful quality to the whole episode. The character was well developed (for such a relatively brief appearance). He's no doubt been introduced as a mirror to both Sam and Dean (in terms of sacrifice, choice, doing the "wrong thing for the right reasons" etc) and it will be interesting to see just how many of his past actions will be reflected in Sam and Dean's. Will Dean be put in a position of having to kill his own brother in order to "save" him? Will he perhaps pick up where he left off in Hell and be (finally) confronted with the choices he's made in the past? Will he make a better choice than Cain did? We'll have to wait and see.
Sam and Castiel
Oh boy! This one's a tough one to discuss because I both loved and disliked it at the same time. I'm not sure how that is possible but there it is.
I have been longing to have some Sam and Cas interaction in FOREVER so I was thrilled that we finally got that. On the surface I enjoyed it. The banter was fun and any chance to see some Sam pain is going to grab my attention. I appreciated the attempt at giving us something between them (thank you Robbie!) but I can't for the life of me figure out what we actually got. I watched the episode a second time simply to try and figure out why the scenes between them existed (other than needing to have Sam and Cas on the screen).
It could be just to see them bond - perhaps share their common experiences (which I know many of us have been begging for). But why? I'm not entirely sure what was achieved by the end. I don't think Sam felt any better for the experience (though maybe he did?) and all Cas seemed to do was express his better "understanding" of Sam - which is nice and all that but I wonder how that is going to help him in the future? Maybe he'll have to explain something to Dean about Sam later on that will help Dean. I suppose time will tell why that was important (I know that sounds callous but because it didn't feel organic (more forced) I feel like there had to be a deeper reason for why Robbie felt that we needed to see a whole episode of Sam and Cas bonding (other than fan service). Don't get me wrong - I'm happy to see it but I'd like if there was a reason for it all.
It could have been about finding Gadreel. But that was a bust. So nothing was achieved there. Unless of course Cas DOES know where Gadreel is and didn't tell Sam? Which doesn't actually make a lot of sense to me because after all the touchy feely talk nothing will have truly been changed for Cas if he's deceiving Sam. I felt he genuinely acknowledged his humaness (in a very clunky way) so turning around and lying to Sam would have meant that was all for nothing. He even asks Sam to join him in his search for Metatron so I don't think there was any deception there.
It was most likely about us seeing Sam's state of mind and seeing Cas's his new angel self. I thought it was disappointing that Cas had to tell us how he's changed rather than us actually seeing it. I know we got to see him make a decision to stop torturing Sam but I did think we'd get to see his new understanding of humans gradually as the season progress. Instead we were mostly told how he's changed (though other than psycho power hungry Cas I never got the sense that he didn't feel for humans. And I'm sure he's understands guilt from what we saw in S7 and S8).
Mostly I just felt it was a little forced and actually awkward at times. As much as it was nice to get the hug I can't figure out what compelled Sam to hug Cas (and expect a hug in return). Was it because Cas told him his life meant something? Was he missing Dean maybe? Cas reached out to him so maybe he's simply grateful for that. Maybe he was just thankful for being completely healed.
That's all very very nitpicky. I didn't hate it and in fact loved that it probably goes some way to balance out the constant Dean and Cas scenes we get.
Sam
Oh Sam. Aside from the clunkiness of some of the Cas and Sam scenes I actually liked a lot of what Jared was doing with Sam. It bordered a little on self pity, but I think he reigned it in enough to see that it was more about his continued belief that he's not worthy to either save or live. I'm a little confused by Sam's return to feeling like this though because we've often seen Sam acknowledge that there are some things that happen that are out of his control. Cas telling Sam that they've both screwed up in the past jarred me a little because it made it seem like Sam has screwed up this time. Of all the times Sam may have screwed up (and S4 is the only major Sam screw up that comes to mind) this is the LEAST of the Sam screw ups. I don't get why he'd be feeling responsible for Kevin's death. He accepted what Soulless!Sam did quicker than what his body was made to do with an angel inside him.
But. It's also very Sam. *slaps him upside the head*. I would like to think that he's continuing to feel like this because he not only failed to complete the trials (at Dean's begging), but that his brother felt that he didn't have the strength to be told the truth about the angel possession (didn't trust him with it etc). Sam seems to have picked up from where he left off at the end of S8. He feels that he has let down his brother and learning that Dean didn't trust him enough to make a choice about his own life, is now feeling even worse. He's angry (I did get that sense when Cas mentioned Dean) but he's also on a mission of revenge (these boys and revenge) and (*sigh*) redemption.
It also matches with what we saw in Sam's head when he was prepared to die. Sam accepts his fate. He accepts pain and whatever it takes to make things right. It's both sad and incredibly admirable.
Dean leaving Sam at this time is a pretty bad move actually. I'd say Sam needs some reassurance from Dean that he's not a screw up. But Dean's clearly got other priorities at the moment so maybe Sam will have to work it out for himself.
I will say though that I'm not seeing a weakened Sam in these last 2 episodes. Sure he's suffering but he kicked ARSE when he booted out Gadreel in the last ep and he took on that pain LIKE A BOSS in this ep. I have no idea what they plan to do with his story line. I am reserving judgment until we get a clearer picture. I now have a clearer idea of what I'd like to see though. But I'll be patient...
Awesome moments
The fight scene with Dean and the demons was pretty awesome (and annoying - see below)
Tara was awesome (until she wasn't - see below). She's actually one of the few women I see on the show that I can actually picture Dean with. Dean is often paired with brunette, rather demur women but I think older, gutsy women are more his match. That's totally personal of course (and I'm seriously hoping someone might write some Dean/Tara).
Sam enduring the pain for what he perceived was a greater good was both incredibly painful but also a lot of what I love about Sam. He, like Dean, is ridiculously stubborn (or brave, depending how you look at it). I might not (yet) understand what they're doing with Sam's story but I like seeing this determined, driven and kickass nature of his.
Cain and bees and corn. Good call.
Cas and sandwiches. Just something about that.
Sam and Cas poring over books and researching together. <3
Both Sam and Dean saying (something like) "we'll find it". Even though the other isn't there they refer to themselves as "we". So much love for that. <3
And even though the boys weren't together in this episode it felt like they connected in their struggles
.
Annoyances
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY DEMONS FIGHT WITH THEIR FISTS! I mean I know it makes for some great action (thank you) but with a wave of their hand they can pin a human to a wall. Or have I missed something? Maybe only certain demons can do that? We've seen both and I'm confused what they can and can't do.
Such shame Robbie couldn't find a better way for Tara to be killed by that demon (I really wish she hadn't been killed because I would have LOVED to have seen more of her) - but the gun shot on the Devil's trap (and failure to re-make it) was seriously weak and not worthy of the character they set up for her.
Needle in the neck. Not so much an annoyance but a WHAAAAA! That was cringe worthy! The pain must have been there for a reason. Sam suffering must be important somehow (or maybe they just like Sam in extreme pain).
I'm not sure why Dean's attention shifted so quickly from hunting Gadreel to teaming up with Crowley to hunt for the first blade. I'm assuming he had no leads on Gad so this was the next best thing (I get it in terms of the story telling but after last week it seems Dean was hell bent of finding Gadreel).
So did Cas take ALL Gadreel's grace? All that was so messy. Cas stopped extracting the grace because his humanness took over and he couldn't continue to hurt Sam and yet it was suggested that all the grace was gone anyway. And then Sam was reverting to his pre-possessed state and then Cas healed him fully. Why didn't Cas do that earlier? Could Cas only do that when all the grace was gone? Ack! it hurts my brain. Probably something I shouldn't be thinking so hard about. I don't think I'll ever fully understand what was going on in the Cas and Sam scenes.
Did you make it this far? GOLD STAR for you! (Or rather, Sam is a clinging t-shirt for you!). If you didn't wade through all that blather I'm still keen to hear your thoughts.
Despite my niggles I really did love that episode. I voted "4" in my poll. Thanks to those who also voted. I LOVED knowing what you all thought - it was nice to see that the majority was 5/4. :)
(For super spoilerphobes - there's a small character spoiler in the first comment..;D)
Sacrifice, love, family, friendship, betrayal, choice, loyalty, redemption, forgiveness, revenge, pain, purpose, awareness, stupidity and stubbornness. I'm sure I've missed a few but wow, this show is dealing with a lot of stuff.
I am rather blown away by the continued intensity and epicness of the issues this season. On the surface I felt this episode really delivered. A new myth arc is revealed (of which Dean seems to be the centre of) and more questions are opened up. Digging a little deeper I felt there were a few problems in the ep - but ultimately it didn't diminish my thorough enjoyment of it.
The story:
I suppose the show was always heading toward a Dean and Sam / Cain and Abel story line. They flirted with it in an earlier episode (5.13) stating that Sam and Dean are direct descendants of these biblical brothers (though wouldn't everyone be descendants in some way? ::not thinking too hard about that one::). It's a curous place to insert this new story direction. The angel possession issue still hangs over the brothers' heads, the fallen angels are still a major issue and the fight for leadership in Hell still rages. Clearly this isn't quite enough for the brothers to deal with so Dean is given the Mark of Cain which I imagine will be tied into the season finale somehow. Personally, I think this is pretty exciting. Sure they probably should stick to one problem at a time, but (if handled well) the mix could prove to be really interesting. I'm hesitant to speculate where they might be heading with this but I see some major angst heading into the season finale. ;) (Though man, can Dean take any more life consuming "burdens"? Surely he (and Sam!) have had their fill.
The characters
Dean
It's hard to know where to even start with Dean this season. I'm inclined to say it's been a messy journey (much like Sam's last season), but I actually think it's becoming clearer as the season progressed. I know some won't agree with this (seeing some comments throughout the season that Dean's only job is to get thrown around), but right from his highly questionable decision to let an angel possess Sam in the first episode he's been heading to the very moment he accepted the Mark of Cain. He needed to be full of enough self hatred that receiving it was unquestioned. He didn't care about the "burden" Cain mentioned. He's so full of revenge and low self worth that he just doesn't care. I know we've been here before with Dean (season five in particular), but I have no problem revisiting this (Carver seems to want to revisit many of the deeper character issues presented to us in earlier seasons). It's got a slightly different twist to the last time (less alcohol involved for instance) and I think this is probably a Dean who has even more self loathing that he's ever done before.
But this is the thing that struck me the most:
I posted this on tumblr earlier
This Dean reminded me SO MUCH of season 5's "future" (2014) Dean. There was a constant steely, murderous intent that Dean carried throughout the episode. I love the way Jensen maintained that. I have no idea if it was his (their) intention to mirror "future" Dean, but I rather loved it. I honestly don't think we are heading toward that particular version of the future (though I might just love it if they did!), but I rather love that they may be hinting at it.
Dean and Crowley
Jensen seems to create a very strong chemistry with whomever he plays opposite (particularly with male characters). As questionable as this partnership was it was fun to watch - there was definitely a level of energy between the two of them. I am so much happier with this version of Crowley than previous ones. He's much more conniving and mysterious. It's hard to know just how "bad" he is. Being turned into a human at the end of the last season casts doubt over his level of evilness. I think the dialogue between Dean and Crowley was some of the best in the episode.
Dean and Cain
The chemistry was there again between Dean and Cain. There was a simmering danger and wariness between them. I actually felt Dean's "bravery" (though some might call it stubbornness or stupidity) as he kept hounding Cain. Dean sure seemed to have a death wish (again, much like the Dean we saw in S5 just before he said yes to Michael).
The actor playing Cain was perfect. He gave it the gravitas the character needed (I haven't actually seen this actor before. Clearly I have been living under a rock). He was fabulous to watch.
One of my absolute favourite moments in the episode was that little scene of Cain's POV (by his wife's grave). We didn't really need that scene, but it brought a wonderful quality to the whole episode. The character was well developed (for such a relatively brief appearance). He's no doubt been introduced as a mirror to both Sam and Dean (in terms of sacrifice, choice, doing the "wrong thing for the right reasons" etc) and it will be interesting to see just how many of his past actions will be reflected in Sam and Dean's. Will Dean be put in a position of having to kill his own brother in order to "save" him? Will he perhaps pick up where he left off in Hell and be (finally) confronted with the choices he's made in the past? Will he make a better choice than Cain did? We'll have to wait and see.
Sam and Castiel
Oh boy! This one's a tough one to discuss because I both loved and disliked it at the same time. I'm not sure how that is possible but there it is.
I have been longing to have some Sam and Cas interaction in FOREVER so I was thrilled that we finally got that. On the surface I enjoyed it. The banter was fun and any chance to see some Sam pain is going to grab my attention. I appreciated the attempt at giving us something between them (thank you Robbie!) but I can't for the life of me figure out what we actually got. I watched the episode a second time simply to try and figure out why the scenes between them existed (other than needing to have Sam and Cas on the screen).
It could be just to see them bond - perhaps share their common experiences (which I know many of us have been begging for). But why? I'm not entirely sure what was achieved by the end. I don't think Sam felt any better for the experience (though maybe he did?) and all Cas seemed to do was express his better "understanding" of Sam - which is nice and all that but I wonder how that is going to help him in the future? Maybe he'll have to explain something to Dean about Sam later on that will help Dean. I suppose time will tell why that was important (I know that sounds callous but because it didn't feel organic (more forced) I feel like there had to be a deeper reason for why Robbie felt that we needed to see a whole episode of Sam and Cas bonding (other than fan service). Don't get me wrong - I'm happy to see it but I'd like if there was a reason for it all.
It could have been about finding Gadreel. But that was a bust. So nothing was achieved there. Unless of course Cas DOES know where Gadreel is and didn't tell Sam? Which doesn't actually make a lot of sense to me because after all the touchy feely talk nothing will have truly been changed for Cas if he's deceiving Sam. I felt he genuinely acknowledged his humaness (in a very clunky way) so turning around and lying to Sam would have meant that was all for nothing. He even asks Sam to join him in his search for Metatron so I don't think there was any deception there.
It was most likely about us seeing Sam's state of mind and seeing Cas's his new angel self. I thought it was disappointing that Cas had to tell us how he's changed rather than us actually seeing it. I know we got to see him make a decision to stop torturing Sam but I did think we'd get to see his new understanding of humans gradually as the season progress. Instead we were mostly told how he's changed (though other than psycho power hungry Cas I never got the sense that he didn't feel for humans. And I'm sure he's understands guilt from what we saw in S7 and S8).
Mostly I just felt it was a little forced and actually awkward at times. As much as it was nice to get the hug I can't figure out what compelled Sam to hug Cas (and expect a hug in return). Was it because Cas told him his life meant something? Was he missing Dean maybe? Cas reached out to him so maybe he's simply grateful for that. Maybe he was just thankful for being completely healed.
That's all very very nitpicky. I didn't hate it and in fact loved that it probably goes some way to balance out the constant Dean and Cas scenes we get.
Sam
Oh Sam. Aside from the clunkiness of some of the Cas and Sam scenes I actually liked a lot of what Jared was doing with Sam. It bordered a little on self pity, but I think he reigned it in enough to see that it was more about his continued belief that he's not worthy to either save or live. I'm a little confused by Sam's return to feeling like this though because we've often seen Sam acknowledge that there are some things that happen that are out of his control. Cas telling Sam that they've both screwed up in the past jarred me a little because it made it seem like Sam has screwed up this time. Of all the times Sam may have screwed up (and S4 is the only major Sam screw up that comes to mind) this is the LEAST of the Sam screw ups. I don't get why he'd be feeling responsible for Kevin's death. He accepted what Soulless!Sam did quicker than what his body was made to do with an angel inside him.
But. It's also very Sam. *slaps him upside the head*. I would like to think that he's continuing to feel like this because he not only failed to complete the trials (at Dean's begging), but that his brother felt that he didn't have the strength to be told the truth about the angel possession (didn't trust him with it etc). Sam seems to have picked up from where he left off at the end of S8. He feels that he has let down his brother and learning that Dean didn't trust him enough to make a choice about his own life, is now feeling even worse. He's angry (I did get that sense when Cas mentioned Dean) but he's also on a mission of revenge (these boys and revenge) and (*sigh*) redemption.
It also matches with what we saw in Sam's head when he was prepared to die. Sam accepts his fate. He accepts pain and whatever it takes to make things right. It's both sad and incredibly admirable.
Dean leaving Sam at this time is a pretty bad move actually. I'd say Sam needs some reassurance from Dean that he's not a screw up. But Dean's clearly got other priorities at the moment so maybe Sam will have to work it out for himself.
I will say though that I'm not seeing a weakened Sam in these last 2 episodes. Sure he's suffering but he kicked ARSE when he booted out Gadreel in the last ep and he took on that pain LIKE A BOSS in this ep. I have no idea what they plan to do with his story line. I am reserving judgment until we get a clearer picture. I now have a clearer idea of what I'd like to see though. But I'll be patient...
Awesome moments
The fight scene with Dean and the demons was pretty awesome (and annoying - see below)
Tara was awesome (until she wasn't - see below). She's actually one of the few women I see on the show that I can actually picture Dean with. Dean is often paired with brunette, rather demur women but I think older, gutsy women are more his match. That's totally personal of course (and I'm seriously hoping someone might write some Dean/Tara).
Sam enduring the pain for what he perceived was a greater good was both incredibly painful but also a lot of what I love about Sam. He, like Dean, is ridiculously stubborn (or brave, depending how you look at it). I might not (yet) understand what they're doing with Sam's story but I like seeing this determined, driven and kickass nature of his.
Cain and bees and corn. Good call.
Cas and sandwiches. Just something about that.
Sam and Cas poring over books and researching together. <3
Both Sam and Dean saying (something like) "we'll find it". Even though the other isn't there they refer to themselves as "we". So much love for that. <3
And even though the boys weren't together in this episode it felt like they connected in their struggles
.
Annoyances
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY DEMONS FIGHT WITH THEIR FISTS! I mean I know it makes for some great action (thank you) but with a wave of their hand they can pin a human to a wall. Or have I missed something? Maybe only certain demons can do that? We've seen both and I'm confused what they can and can't do.
Such shame Robbie couldn't find a better way for Tara to be killed by that demon (I really wish she hadn't been killed because I would have LOVED to have seen more of her) - but the gun shot on the Devil's trap (and failure to re-make it) was seriously weak and not worthy of the character they set up for her.
Needle in the neck. Not so much an annoyance but a WHAAAAA! That was cringe worthy! The pain must have been there for a reason. Sam suffering must be important somehow (or maybe they just like Sam in extreme pain).
I'm not sure why Dean's attention shifted so quickly from hunting Gadreel to teaming up with Crowley to hunt for the first blade. I'm assuming he had no leads on Gad so this was the next best thing (I get it in terms of the story telling but after last week it seems Dean was hell bent of finding Gadreel).
So did Cas take ALL Gadreel's grace? All that was so messy. Cas stopped extracting the grace because his humanness took over and he couldn't continue to hurt Sam and yet it was suggested that all the grace was gone anyway. And then Sam was reverting to his pre-possessed state and then Cas healed him fully. Why didn't Cas do that earlier? Could Cas only do that when all the grace was gone? Ack! it hurts my brain. Probably something I shouldn't be thinking so hard about. I don't think I'll ever fully understand what was going on in the Cas and Sam scenes.
Did you make it this far? GOLD STAR for you! (Or rather, Sam is a clinging t-shirt for you!). If you didn't wade through all that blather I'm still keen to hear your thoughts.
Despite my niggles I really did love that episode. I voted "4" in my poll. Thanks to those who also voted. I LOVED knowing what you all thought - it was nice to see that the majority was 5/4. :)
(For super spoilerphobes - there's a small character spoiler in the first comment..;D)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2014-01-23 09:36 pm (UTC)My initial response was very conflicted. It was like Cas' PB&J: the pieces/parts were fine but the sum left me ... concerned.
I'm not sure how stoked I am by the prospect of dark!Dean, mostly because if he goes darkside? Sam won't be able to stop him, as they've written Sam these past two seasons. With the exception of the odd Edlund episode, Sam has been either possessed, knocked unconscious, debilitated or relegated to sitting around the bunker amidst a pile of papers ("See? I'm the smart one; I read!") Whatever. Dean is the one who's been strategizing, kicking ass, calling the shots. If it comes down to Sam vs. Dean? Dean would rip Sam up from here to Hell. I know Dean says "Don't mess with Sammy; he's tough, if anyone can do it, etc." but we don't get to see it. (Show don't Tell, writers, dammit!)
I like that Dean is finally getting his piece of myth to star in, though! Jensen is DELICIOUS when he’s violent and glowering. I simply fear that the current batch of writers don't 'get' Sam enough to keep the character from feeling usurped and ineffectual in this plot arc. Honestly, Sam has been Dean’s punching bag, emotionally and physically, for far too long.
Now, before all my Dean!girls in the house rip me a new one, hear me out! Look at how easily Sam folds when Dean says “please!” Sam is ready to offer his life for the ol’ Greater Good, until Dean turns his big green eyes on him and wibbles. Dean will always always be Sam’s Stone #1. Back to Sam not looking for Dean in Purgatory: maybe this is exactly why.
This isn’t to say Dean doesn’t love Sam. He arguably loves him too much. He can’t imagine a world without Sam. But Dean’s current state of mind is not about undoing the mistakes he made regarding Sam, it’s about his personal rage and self-loathing. He wants something to hurt as much as he does, which is a considerable amount, and he doesn’t give a flying fuck if he gets killed in the process. (I think this is why it was relatively easy for Crowley to get Dean to switch gears and go after the First Sword. Any feasible target will do.)
Loved Cain, let’s just get that out of the way. :D Crowley, the charming bastard ... I always appreciate his smarminess and I do still wonder what being human has done to him. It was great fun to see him and Dean trading barbs. I initially wanted to see them fighting, back to back, but now I get why it didn’t happen ...
Re. Sam’s misery over Kevin vs. Soulless’ many sins, Sam knew Kevin, cared deeply about the kid. Sam will always feel responsible for Kevin’s death. He didn’t know the folks his soulless self hurt. So it makes sense to me that Sam would still blame himself. Lately, Sam has seemed to believe that it’s not your intentions that count, it’s the outcome. He’s certainly learned this the hard way. (“You know, I kind of feel like I got slipped the worst mickey of all time...and I woke up to find out that I had burnt the whole city down. And you can say it wasn't me, but...I'm the one with the zippo in my pocket, you know?” Episode 6.12)
Sam has felt weakened to me, as a character. His choices have been ignored time and again, after which he ... wilts. (With the one exception of when he kicked out Gadreel, yup.) Over and over, he admits “Yeah, yeah, you’re right.” I HATE THAT. Dammit, Sam, stop folding! He’s teaching people how to treat him and it frustrates the daylights out of me. Compromise is great, but constantly admitting you’re the one that made the mistake when you didn’t? *throws self on ground and tantrums*
Ahem. Better now.
tbc...
no subject
Date: 2014-01-23 09:36 pm (UTC)I’m with you on the WTF were the Sam&Cas scenes all about? Just another way for Sam to feel that despite his fuck-ups, he’s still worth saving? Because that seems to the meat of it, and the meat isn’t that tasty to me. Lotsa yakkity-smack, saying a lot about Cas and his fumble with humanity, showing us diddly squat. Except now Sam is graceless and tattooless and about as ... hmmm ... about as human and normal as they come. Isn’t this what Sam has always wanted? HMMM! Has Sam inadvertently gotten his heart’s desire? I actually hope not! As
Dang it, I wasn’t gonna get ranty again but there I went and did it! And now that I’ve spent a good hour+ typing this, I’m gonna hit ‘post comment’.
*shuts up, finally, and slinks off to her sour little corner*
no subject
Date: 2014-01-24 12:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-24 12:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-25 03:09 am (UTC)Compromise is great, but constantly admitting you’re the one that made the mistake when you didn’t?
Yeah. That's the thing that drives me nuts (and I think it's supposed to! *g*) - the only thing I think Sam can genuinely take responsibly for is drinking demon blood and killing Lilith. He can't even take full responsibility for releasing Lucifer as Dean has a hand in that also. Hmmm…maybe some of soulless!Sam actions, but again - I don't see that as really him because it's his soul that makes Sam who he is. I have a feeling there's not much Sam can do that he won't blame himself for now. He seemed to have a healthy handle on that in the past (the quote you mention for e.g.), but I'm not so sure now.
I hope he doesn't buckle and just calmly accept what Dean did as an act of love. With Dean focussing in on himself (and potentially turning dark side) I'm sure Sam will find some way to feel guilty about that and end up damn well apologising for…something. /o\
Just another way for Sam to feel that despite his fuck-ups, he’s still worth saving?
I dunno. It's what I was struggling with too. I'm really not sure what they were trying to say in those scenes other than - Sam feels like he has to accept pain and Cas needs to tell us he's a better angel because he's been human. Maybe it was simply to align Cas and Sam in terms of past mistakes (but I keep coming back to thinking that Sam hasn't made mistakes that haven't been forced on him. Cas became power hungry - as did Sam in S4, so maybe that's what that was about.
I didn't think much was actually revealed or achieved in those scenes (except some delish tight t-shirted Sam and some medical h/c).
And no slinking off!! I love discussing the thinky - especially when it comes to Sam. Our boy needs all the love he can get (I've seen a few "Sam needs to be grateful for what Dean did" comments (not here) that make me see that not everyone thinks Dean did the wrong thing. Sam, as usual, doesn't appreciate his big bro. I refuse to get even started on that…./o\)
no subject
Date: 2014-01-25 09:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-25 11:22 pm (UTC)These next few episodes--where Sam will not be saddled with hallucinations, parasites or subatomic-level damage--will really test the meddle of Carver's writing team. Does Sam even have a personality, minus the gimmicks? Or will the writers simply continue to use him as the 'straight man' to set-up the other character's snappy lines and throw the occasional eye-roll, which is my suspicion.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-26 11:05 am (UTC)And though Dean is my fave, Dean is nothing without Sam (which is, as all these discussions make clear) the root of Dean's problem - but it also means that I don't think you can really love or understand Dean without loving Sam.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-25 03:00 am (UTC)Yeah, this is a worry and I suppose we can only hope that by having the threat of Dean turning dark side Sam will have to step up and we start to see what he is truly capable of. I mean, we know what Sam is capable of, we've seen it in the past (and even with his determination to go through with the trials), but it will be whether he's allow to follow through and whatever action he takes be effective.
I simply fear that the current batch of writers don't 'get' Sam enough to keep the character from feeling usurped and ineffectual in this plot arc.
I get this too and that last episode certainly didn't do much to give us much confidence that they "get" Sam. I'm going to give them more than this one episode to see what direction they decide to take for Sam. At the moment I can accept that Sam is still having the "I let you down" feels from the end of last season - which have no doubt been re-doubled after what Dean did to Sam (I see Sam taking that as a "you still don't trust me enough to let me make my own decisions"), but it will be how they resolve that for him from here on in. If Sam continues to be ineffectual it will be extremely annoying and dissatisfying.
Dean will always always be Sam’s Stone #1. Back to Sam not looking for Dean in Purgatory: maybe this is exactly why.
Oh I have a lot of thinky on this. It's become even clearer this season why Sam was ok with not searching for Dean when he disappeared. The level of freedom must have been dizzying. It's a difficult one to accept because we only like to think of these two as living only for each other (etc etc) but I think this can only be a happy union when this issue of control (and all the other issues associated with that) are sorted out. I would love to think that this season (and even the next) are about coming to that realisation.
But Dean’s current state of mind is not about undoing the mistakes he made regarding Sam, it’s about his personal rage and self-loathing.
Yeah. It would have been braver and a better choice if Dean had stayed with Sam to make amends rather than run away and take his pain out in vengeance. I think that's why Sam let him go so easily - and understood that Dean stating he is "poison" is not the problem. And I wonder how relieved Sam might be to not have to actually deal with Dean at the moment too. I can't imagine how they are going to bring these two back together in the space of one episode.
Yeah, yeah, you’re right.” I HATE THAT. Dammit, Sam, stop folding!
Yes. I agree with the folding (even down to returning to Dean instead of staying with Amelia. Of course it's a necessary outcome but I never got the feeling that Sam wanted to return to Dean. Folding and not closing the gates is a little messier. It should have worked out for the better (as Dean has promised) but instead it went pear shaped because of Dean's decision to save Sam. I don;t know. I have to think further on that. I just think there's a lot of strength in what Sam does. Stopping was a stronger and harder option than continuing I think. I suppose I also see the way Sam confronts pain and just continues to exist as a level of strength that is unsurpassed. But maybe that's just stubbornness and/or recklessness.
cont...