Coupla things... (Musketeers & SPN)

[ash48]

Care of the lovely el1ie

First an interview with the gorgeous Tom Burke (who plays Athos in the wonderful The Musketeers). This is interesting because he mentions a certain quality in the Musketeer's relationship that now seems to be a "dirty" word in the Winchester's relationship:

It's taken 9 years for me to think that actually the Winchester brothers would be better apart. I hate feeling that because I have never felt that before. In between reading some interesting (and somewhat convincing) meta on how Dean has been abusing Sam for years and then reading other stuff on how Sam has been emotionally abusing Dean I've been thinking that with all this abuse they should just part and each of them would be so much better off.

But I really don't want to think that. I think there's certainly a level of abusive behaviours in their relationship but I still want to believe that their co-dependance is a strength (in the mad world they live in) and not as horrid as this season has somewhat painted it. I still have hope that this might be where we are heading in the future - that their bond/co-dependence is actually the thing that keeps them strong, positive and human (perhaps not this season, but definitely the next). In reality co-dependence is probably damaging, but in their life everything else is damaging so having to rely and depend on someone else is certainly the lesser of two (probable) evils.

At least the Musketeers wear that quality on their sleeves and we can see how their co-dependence is a strength not something that rips them apart (seriously, check out this show if you haven't).



The other thing that brought a smile to my face is re-watching el1ie's vid My Brother. Such fun and has all the brotherhood feels. :))

Comments

[ash48.livejournal.com]

But when someone as generally level-headed as you begins to think the brothers would be better apart, well . . . that's a problem.

I makes me sad too! I deep down don't want to think or believe that. I refuse to let Carver change my view of the boys. It's a struggle though because since S8 he's been driving this wedge between then and we've left asking - if they hurt each other this much they might be better off apart?

I mean, it's all for the story telling and I know they want to create this massive drama around them, I suppose I just wish he hadn't done it in a that way created such drama outside of the show too. Though I am left with tremendous hope that because we are asking that question he'll be giving us an answer that demonstrates (and confirms) that NO they aren't better off apart. :))

I'm curious as to how you see the Musketeers' co-dependence as a good thing, while the Winchester co-dependence is not.

Oh, it's presented completely differently. The Musketeers are a family and support each other (and would no doubt die for each other) - but it's a much lighter approach than the darkness we see on Supernatural. They're not dealing with selling souls or making deals to bring back lives. TBH, when Tom mentions co-dependence in the interview I was a little surprised to hear him describe their relationship like that. I suppose I measure my idea of watch co-depedence means by Sam and Dean - I realised after watching this interview that it can mean just relying on each other. In that respect there's not a lot of difference between the relationships.

In terms of episodes to rec. I'd say watch the first one. All the episodes demonstrate their bond but the series is sequential and it'd be hard to pick up one in the middle. The characters start to develop and I think it'd be more rewarding to see that progression. The first one will also give you an idea if you think you'll like it (which, I think you will). There's only 10 eps (I think it's 10. A small number anyway).

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[el1ie.livejournal.com]

TBH, when Tom mentions co-dependence in the interview I was a little surprised to hear him describe their relationship like that.

I think it's become his basis for Athos, I've seen and read quite a few bits and pieces from him and he's very much of the opinion that Athos needs the Musketeers, far more than they need him - which of course we know isn't true! But he does see Athos in a very dark and lonely place and the regiment, his friends and his brothers as the only things keeping him afloat and alive, and that they in turn need Athos and his steady nerve and experience to keep them alive, so in that mind frame I think you can see where he's coming from. The show reflects that too I think by only using 'that' phrase the once, it has meaning, it's earned and the cast themselves respect and understand what that means and won't parrot it in interviews at all - I like that and have high hopes for next season

But your right in the way that in parts of fandom, the Sam and Dean co-dependency is seen as the root of all their problems and for the last couple of years it's almost been the worst monster of the whole series, which I think is a shame, as we've said many a time, this bond of brotherhood and family is the show at it's very heart, why many of us tuned in - the buddy show in all it's glory - and it hurts so much to see it painted in such blood and misery. I hope they salvage some of it, not sure how now so much damage and hurt has been caused, but I'm willing to be enchanted by them again, if they'd just give me a glimmer of hope.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*nods* I definitely get that feel from Athos. I think he really does need his musketeers and they definitely need him. When they say All for One and One for All they mean it. Just love it.

And yes. The Winchester's co-dependence was once a thing to be celebrated by now it seems that all it does is create hurt. And actually, I have no issue with them exploring that (in fact, I think it's a worthy theme to examine), just as long as they come to some solid and positive conclusions about it. Even if to say - ok, it's not all that healthy, but in this dark world we live in it shine a light.

I don't think the next 3 eps will give us that. In fact, I am terrified for what we are going to get. I just hope they end on a somewhat positive note.