9.23 reaction

[ash48]

I had a huge reaction post written out but decided it was far too negative and started to make me cry so I decided not to post it.

I will say that I didn't mind watching the episode (made all the better because I had zebra363 with me) but in all honesty it left me feeling pretty much nothing. Empty. Blank. Perhaps a bit annoyed, frustrated and sad.

I love these characters too much to see them wasted like this. To have them at odds all season just so we can have "near" apology scenes and confessions of "I lied". :(

For a whole season to mean absolutely nothing. To have gone absolutely no where. *sobs* (and not the good *sobs* - only S8 and S9 have reduced me to tears over loss of the show I fell in love with).

I need more time to process. I'm sure I will shake these blues away and find something salvageable here.

Though I'm thinking until Carver leaves I'll never see the Sam and Dean I grew to love.

I'd say they've already created their spin off. We watched it this season.

(PS: please, if you loved it and want to squee please feel free. I need to know it's worth hanging on to. I need to know that this is just all part of a plan to build this show back to something we recognise. I need to know that they didn't make Sam say important stuff only to have it completely and utterly ignored for a reason. I need to know that this hasn't just become the worst, predictable, most boring, fan servicing pile of... )

Comments

[azziria.livejournal.com]

I haven't actually watched it yet - I wanted to read what you and a couple of other on my flist thought of it before I dared to watch, because I hated last week's episode so much. (And how much do I hate having to say that?)

Dean has been a bit of an arrogant dickhead several times before over the seasons, but 9.22 was the first time that I've actually really, really hated him, to the point where I didn't want to watch any more. Now you could say that it's good writing and acting if it gets such a strong emotion out of a viewer, but personally I think it's counter-productive if you make a character who's supposed to be a hero so unsympathetic that it makes a viewer turn the show off.

Plus, Metatron is such a whiny bitch, and not even *interesting* as a character, just annoying.

And I am *so* over angels it's just not true. Even Castiel (and personally I've never seen the 'chemistry' between him and Dean). I just want the brothers back fighting together, because that partnership is what drew me to the show in the first place.

However, as I believe you've noted before, the ratings are excellent so clearly many viewers *adore* the 'new' Supernatural.

I'll be over here in the corner watching S3 again.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*nods* and *nods*. All of that. I've really grown to dislike Dean over the season and that's so sad for me. In some ways it makes sense that this is where he's ended. It's has to be as bad as it gets for him. Maybe S10 will be able re-building Dean (and Sam's!) character from this dark place.

However, as I believe you've noted before, the ratings are excellent so clearly many viewers *adore* the 'new' Supernatural.

Sadly, yes. I think a lot has to do with the new move to Tuesday nights but general viewers are obviously liking the angel and demon stuff and like to see the brothers at odd. I suspect a lot more of it next season too.

[runedgirl.livejournal.com]

I actually liked alot of it. Yes, the pacing sucked all season and I'm frustrated as hell that we keep having to watch stupid angel war bullshit that I don't care about and we should have had weeks and weeks of Dean's addiction and Sam's growing concern in order to really sell this episode properly - but even with all that, this episode largely worked for me. I tune out sometimes when it's not Sam and Dean and I wish I didn't have to, but when Jared and Jensen were onscreen, I was right there with them. I didn't feel at all like they were phoning it in, I thought they both sold it absolutely.

As for the Winchesters not being the heroes of their own story, I can understand that frustration, because their story kept getting muddled while the show tried to tell too many disconnected stories. But in this episode, I did feel like they were the heroes. Tragic heroes. I am dumbfounded by these two characters who have been through so much and just WILL NOT GIVE UP. And who still manage to love through it all, especially each other. That's the emotional heart of the story for me, and I still see it there and feel it (here).

I love the potential for S10 with Dean being a demon. I've written demon!Dean in fic so much that I have a soft spot for the very idea (not that I think they'll take the story where I took it in Fade to Black, haha...too bad...) but I think it has potential. Yes, they could squander it completely, but I'm crossing my fingers they won't. Silly me perhaps :)

[maaldas.livejournal.com]

[i]As for the Winchesters not being the heroes of their own story, I can understand that frustration, because their story kept getting muddled while the show tried to tell too many disconnected stories. But in this episode, I did feel like they were the heroes. Tragic heroes. I am dumbfounded by these two characters who have been through so much and just WILL NOT GIVE UP. And who still manage to love through it all, especially each other. That's the emotional heart of the story for me, and I still see it there and feel it (here). [i/]

Agree to everything you said. They are always the unsung heroes. Despite everything, despite all that has been said, they still love each other.

[i]I love the potential for S10 with Dean being a demon. I've written demon!Dean in fic so much that I have a soft spot for the very idea [i/]

I've read DeamonDean fic a lot and I'm happy to get to read a lot more. Will you write more of them? :D

[locknkey.livejournal.com]

I am dumbfounded by these two characters who have been through so much and just WILL NOT GIVE UP. And who still manage to love through it all, especially each other. That's the emotional heart of the story for me, and I still see it there and feel it (here). I did see that, even through the terrible pacing and poor writing. And that will keep me watching.

All I could think at the end when Dean's eyes went black was they stole your idea and no way can they do it better. *grins*

[soserendipity.livejournal.com]

Yes to all of your first paragraph. I loved Jared and Jensen through the whole episode, not just in those heart-shattering last few minutes. A bit more build up might have gotten more people emotionally invested, but that'll definitely make it into my headcanon so there's that.

But in this episode, I did feel like they were the heroes. Tragic heroes. I am dumbfounded by these two characters who have been through so much and just WILL NOT GIVE UP. And who still manage to love through it all, especially each other. That's the emotional heart of the story for me, and I still see it there and feel it (here). - Yes, yes, yes. Tragic! And so raw and open and suffering for all the wrong (and the right) reasons and just. Ugh. Poor, poor boys. *sob*

Oh. Demon!Dean fic? That does sound intriguing but I'm actually not sure I'm ready for that yet.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey!

Tragic heroes. I am dumbfounded by these two characters who have been through so much and just WILL NOT GIVE UP. And who still manage to love through it all, especially each other. That's the emotional heart of the story for me, and I still see it there and feel it (here).

Yes. It's an aspect of the story that makes it so compelling. And it's probably important that they look at how they could be doing this job for so long and not be affected by it. They stick together, even when they are hurting each other, and that's how they survive.

I just get frustrated by the continual cycle of sacrifice without an acknowledgement of that though. I thought that's where they were heading this season with Sam's seeming clarity in the matter when he said he wouldn't continue that kind of cycle, but here we are seeing that he's very prepared to do that. Which is wonderful and is the core of this relationship (which I don't want to see changed), but maybe if one day they actually acknowledge that this love they have ends up hurting each other and even others, it would be some sort of growth. I don't want it to change to the point that they'd sit back and let each other die. Just to let death the peace that they are finally needing (end of series maybe...)

demon!Dean will be fascinating and I am excited the Jensen will have the opportunity to play that. Oh and I better check that story out. I am curious to see what the possibilities are for demon!Dean. I seriously can't imagine where they can take the story other than have Dean as a demon in the first couple of episodes and then he's "fixed" some how. Unless a whole season as Dean as a demon? Yikes!

I generally feel better about the finale than I did when I first watched it. But S9 will always have a cloud hanging over me. The Sam bashing that happened after he spoke up for himself after what Dean did will forever sting. I was desperate for some closure on that. This episode gave me a bit (I think some people have "forgiven Sam" (arghh) which at least means they're not bashing him. I'm hoping that the notion of what lines they are prepared to cross for their crazy, co-dependent love is still on the table to be addressed. Or perhaps it might be best if I just stop hoping and just go along for the rise. :)

xx

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

I'm not venting my anger all over your journal.

I'll just say this -

Dear show.

If you are going to insist on re-hashing, re-doing and re-telling old episodes in new 'fan service' ways, do them with style, flair, honour and respect. This was fucking insulting.

No love, me.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Co-signed.

Hee...and here I was hoping to start my letter with...

"all is forgiven".
xx

[alleysweeper.livejournal.com]

but in all honesty it left me feeling pretty much nothing.

I so agree. There's only so much Jensen's acting was outstanding or Guh, Sam's HAIR! you can say to make up for the shit they're giving us.

I can't help but thinking those who are cheering started watching Show in later seasons and only have a passing concept of the origins through reruns.

♥hugs♥
Alley

[soserendipity.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'm naive or maybe I'm just not ready to let go yet. I don't know. But I'm actually one of those who started in the early seasons (and fiercely loves them to this day) and still watches for the Sam&Dean moments.

I don't unconditionally like the later seasons, don't get me wrong, but I'm still cheering when I get brotherly moments and the boys still break my heart. I wish I could give you this emotional connection back. I'm sorry that you're so dissapointed. Group hug?

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I was confused with the "omg, the feeeeeelllsss" after this episode because we've had all those feeeeeels before and so much stronger. But, I', also happy for those people because, gosh, I wish I was doing that. perhaps I'm just too jaded after so many years. Another death just didn't have the impact for me. Nor did the demon eyes - but I think that's because I was spoiled for that. Jensen pretty much gave the ending away.

Anyway. I'm curious to see what they do now. If I continue not to feel it, I may have to bow out. I seriously hope not though. :(

[blackjedii.livejournal.com]

Mmm on one hand I don't think there's anything they could have done to make me ENJOY the show anymore

On another hand I feel like Carver's done a terrific job displaying the ugly side of that whole machismo manly play with supernatural and look into the abyss that Gamble an Kripke both romanticised and he's done it without resorting to THE MOST CRAZY LEVEL OF TRAUMA THEY WILL NEVER RECOVER FROM

So it's not fun to watch at all but it's a logical progression to me? Sam and Dean haven't been outright heroes in a long long time and have pretty much been cleaning up their own messes (or being manipulated by higher powers) and at this point I'm just interested in seeing how Carver "fixes" it.

The angels need to all DIAF and the demons too but whatever. I miss Eve.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

On another hand I feel like Carver's done a terrific job displaying the ugly side of that whole machismo manly play with supernatural and look into the abyss that Gamble an Kripke both romanticised and he's done it without resorting to THE MOST CRAZY LEVEL OF TRAUMA THEY WILL NEVER RECOVER FROM

Excellent point. I suspect I will look back on the Carver era and see what he's doing here. These "heroes" can't be left untainted. I think the lack of romanticism is what makes it difficult to watch. Personally, I love the darker side and I really liked the set up of the season. What Dean did to Sam was really dark and I had hope that would be explored. And maybe it has. Dean is now a demon. A result of the darkness we've seen from him all season. There may be some poetry in all after all.

It's just hard to watch and enjoy when there's so little "joy" in the show any more. Perhaps the whole point though. There should be no joy in killing and death.

[lavinialavender.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Thanks! *hugs* back...

[missyjack.livejournal.com]

I am just really sad that you've fallen out of love with Show. I wonder all the time if/when this will happen for me - i've been there with other fannish obsessions before - and I can hardly believe i am here at the Season 9 finale full of feels and bursting with meta thoughts.

I hope this ending isnt too hard for you.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey MJ!

There's no doubt I've been disappointed with the way the season has ended. I think because I had anticipated something different. It's now been a few days since the finale and I've chatted a lot and listened to different interpretations and I'm in a better place.

For me it's understanding that there may be a reason for the direction they've taken the characters we love so much. And I totally accept that Sam and Dean had to change and evolve as the years have progressed. I would like to think that this complete tearing down and exposing the inner darkness in them both is a deliberate move. One that will see them grow and become the heroes they once were.

I think by S10 my love will have returned and I will be looking forward to the new season as much as everyone else. In the mean time, I need the hiatus to recover. ;)

Thanks for dropping in.

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

very predictable finale, :(. the end of 3x10-Dream a little dream of me is finally true :(. i am very loyal fan, i'll be here for next season, like Soulless Sam,*i cant feel it anymore* i watch it, but i dont feel it anymore :(

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ha...yes. Feeling like soulless!Sam - no feeling. (though days later I have quite a lot of feelings - trying to make sense of it all).

[zebra363.livejournal.com]

I'm sad to think of you writing out a long post and getting so unhappy you scrapped it! It sounds like your day went downhill.

It was a fun day for me even if the episode didn't live up to our hopes. It's nice to make an occasion of important events like season finales!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It was a great day! And my opening sentence was the anticipation and having you over was the best part of the finale.

I tried to make sense of what I've been feeling and then it all descended into a pile of negativity, stemming from lack of satisfaction. I shouldn't take it so hard or be so invested or even be that disappointed. As you said, the finale matched the season and in that respect it was adequate. The more I pondered it the most annoyed I got that about the things that it didn't do rather than did do.

But hey. It was a fun day and I know I will shake it off and look forward to next season.
xx

[hugemind.livejournal.com]

A giant heaping spoon of squee for me, please. ;)

If anything, this cemented to me that the boys are brothers and even though they might quibble and fight and try to hurt each other, they do love each other. And every fight brings them closer to understanding the other. We saw just how much Sam means to Dean, how desperate he got when Sam disavowed him, and how it lead to bad things just like Sam's desperation in S4 did. And we also saw how worried Sam still is that there is something wrong with him that just can't be fixed, how he deals with being disappointed with his brother, how he holds things in and tries to be the rational one out of the two, how he indulges Dean's big bro mode because Dean can't turn that off and so he lets Dean take the lead if they're on the same page but can step up if need be. And we saw that when it comes to each other, the boys are really still desperate enough to do anything to get the other back. Also, it's kinda interesting how nobody thought that Sam might be lying out of hurt when he said that he wouldn't bring Dean back, but I think that's stuff for a meta. :)

The near apology fitted the tone, because the boys are on the same page and know what the other is feeling and don't need the words (like in "Tall Tales" Sam tried to apologize with "Um, I just want to say that I'm, uh, um..." and Dean was all "Hey. Me too.") and they actually don't do full-on chick flick stuff all that often. Plus it would have broken me way worse if they had hugged it out only for Dean to end up as a demon a moment later.

I rewatched the season in the last couple of weeks so that on Tuesday my rewatch of the previous ep before a new ep coincided with the S9 marathon 9x22 rewatch, and the season feels coherent and it moved forward steadily. My only problem is that they keep stringing Cas along and so have to invent a storyline just for him (because with the boys he'd zap the monsters and heal the boys and, y'know, no drama). And juggling two stories that optimally are connected and are interesting both to the people they think only watch Show for Cas and to people who are here for the boys is just very difficult to carry out. Personally, I'd just axe Cas because the angel stuff is getting tedious. But that's also stuff for a meta. *finale squee and flail and OMG BOYS cries*

[maaldas.livejournal.com]

Exactly what you said.

Agree with the writers inventing storyline for Cas that I don't really invested because you can see that Cas's fans and Misha's fans and Destielers are out there. They're voters so the writers want to keep them.

[locknkey.livejournal.com]

Others have said a lot and said it better so...

*cookies and hugs*

I have no strong feelings about the finale except that I hope it can't get worse. :) But I know I am in it until the end either way.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Thanks honey. and HAHAAHA!! Never hope it can get worse because I am SURE it will. We have (potential) a season of demon!dean (and least 1/2 a season) so there won't be much brother stuff going on there. Though, we give get more Sam which would be good. :)

[cordelia-gray.livejournal.com]

This is pretty much my feeling too, sigh. So disappointing. And they didn't even kill Metatron. Boo.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

They DIDN'T KILL METATRON! We can't even say...at least they killed him! Boo!

[callistosh65.livejournal.com]

I just watched and caught up yesterday, and then rewatched it again this morning. Like you I'm still trying to process exactly what I feel about it. Jensen acted his socks off and the brother scenes were fabulous - but goddammit, why'd we have to wait so long for them? And why do they feel like crumbs I had to seek out amongst Metatron and Cas and Gadreel scenes that I honestly found it hard to give a crap about??

My mantra to Carver for next season.

PARE.IT.DOWN

Stop sidelining SamnDean and thinking the bigger the canvas the more jaw-dropping it all becomes. It doesn't, it just becomes more unwieldy, less dynamic, and god, downright boring at times.

Shall post up my own thoughts once I've sorted them out a bit more

::hugs you ight::

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Exactly - why did we have to wait so long to see the brother stuff? If only they had resolved their conflict properly earlier we could have had much more bro stuff throughout the season and not just leave it for the climax. As it was, they rushed it so I felt we were being manipulated. Which, ok yes, that's their job - but I like to be manipulated and not actually know it.

Stop sidelining SamnDean and thinking the bigger the canvas the more jaw-dropping it all becomes. It doesn't, it just becomes more unwieldy, less dynamic, and god, downright boring at times.

Oh yes yes! I would so love them to pare it down. But because they have Cas and Crowley (both regulars next season) it means they are sticking to the heaven and hell crap and keeping that canvas huge. Such a shame - I hang on to hope that the final season (whenever that is) returns them to the world just being them, the road and the monsters.

*hugs*

[sarahk-1963.livejournal.com]

I forgot to download the season finale - I think that speaks volumes ;-(

I did watch it yesterday, but I felt nothing. This is not my Supernatural.

Cheers, sarahk

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Forgot? Yep! I'd say that does speak volumes! ;)

It's weird how much we really want to feel something from this show and when we don't we don't recognise it. It's worse when they put something of the screen that we are supposed to feel. And don't. :(