9.23 reaction

[ash48]

I had a huge reaction post written out but decided it was far too negative and started to make me cry so I decided not to post it.

I will say that I didn't mind watching the episode (made all the better because I had zebra363 with me) but in all honesty it left me feeling pretty much nothing. Empty. Blank. Perhaps a bit annoyed, frustrated and sad.

I love these characters too much to see them wasted like this. To have them at odds all season just so we can have "near" apology scenes and confessions of "I lied". :(

For a whole season to mean absolutely nothing. To have gone absolutely no where. *sobs* (and not the good *sobs* - only S8 and S9 have reduced me to tears over loss of the show I fell in love with).

I need more time to process. I'm sure I will shake these blues away and find something salvageable here.

Though I'm thinking until Carver leaves I'll never see the Sam and Dean I grew to love.

I'd say they've already created their spin off. We watched it this season.

(PS: please, if you loved it and want to squee please feel free. I need to know it's worth hanging on to. I need to know that this is just all part of a plan to build this show back to something we recognise. I need to know that they didn't make Sam say important stuff only to have it completely and utterly ignored for a reason. I need to know that this hasn't just become the worst, predictable, most boring, fan servicing pile of... )

Comments

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

I will tell you why you are feeling nothing -- the Winchesters are no longer the heroes in this story, and their position as such as been completely usurped.

Most egregiously, as has been done all this season, Sam didn't get to do anything effective last night besides the initial finding of the trailer park. Gadreel ("friend"... REALLY?) had his completely unearned redemption arc moment, allowing our hero Cas to be the one who REALLY saved the day, AND took down Metatron, using brains instead of brawn (a direct contrast to Dean, our former hero's, epic failure)

Sam got knocked out for the main fight. He didn't get to Dean on time. He didn't gank Metatron fast enough when he was back to an angel. He didn't manage to stop Dean before he died. And, most of all, he didn't even get to be the one to offer a deal, because Crowley came in and literally took his version of the ABHL II monologue. So even his "I lied" was for naught, because he didn't get the chance to prove it either way.

And honestly? And you know how much I adore J2 but...they just didn't sell it last night. Compare it to last year's finale in the church, which was infinitely more emotional and visceral and, frankly, better-acted and written, whether you agree with the content of that scene or not. And you know why? Because it was about the two of them, and their history, good or bad. Not just a rehash of better scenes. *salutes Carver*

Note: for the record, my boyfriend was watching it, so it was either hide in my room or watch and see what y'all were talking about today lol. I'm personally a resounding ball of meh.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I'm with you my dear, I did enjoy the episode but not in the deep and committed way I have done in the past and that was because I think no matter WHAT they had done in one 45 minute slot there was no way to retrieve the rest of this wasted season. I've said elsewhere - this would/could have been awesome if they'd condensed the interesting parts of this season into 11-12 episodes and made this the mid season hiatus finale. Then we'd have had the 2nd half where Sam was trying to rescue/save Dean from the Blade and the demonic transformation in a way that wouldn't leave Dean as a rotting corpse...

I think you and I have gone through the same process of disillusionment this season. Sigh. It makes me very sad.

But I'll still watch next season. I can't leave now.

[etoile-etiolee.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed it. It's been a long time since I actually felt something watching a SPN episode, and I think Jared and Jensen made great performances. Maybe because this season -and the one before that were so crappy,I'm biaised, but I think it was a great finale. :)

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

"the Winchesters are no longer the heroes in this story, and their position as such as been completely usurped." I think this is where my problem lies, too. They have to be at the centre, or the show doesn't work.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

And here, I agree with you 100%. Each and every word. The more I think about it the more it sinks in that Sam and Dean did absolutely nothing. Oh sure, Dean died and Sam cried, but there was no urgency - no meaning to any of it. They were ineffectual and hero-less. Was it for a reason? Is this part of the over all story? I've given up hoping. :(

I am now thoroughly convinced that Carver not only doesn't really like these characters but he truly has no understanding of them, or their plight.

In my review that I didn't post I actually said that Cas, Gadreel and Crowley had the most significant character stories and growth this season. Sam and Dean were mere side characters who, well, ended up doing nothing. (and don't even get me started on Abaddon...)

And I fear with Dean as a demon we'll have even less character growth next season. Only he'll become the "plot point", instead of Sam.

xx

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

{{{{hugs}}}} of sympathy!

I don't care enough to watch it. I mostly blame fandom for my level of disengagement, though. The versus b.s. of this season was too much for me. It was too much for me in S4 (and 5) when the show was actually still mostly good. To go there when the show is flailing around aimlessly… no, thanks.

[auntmo9.livejournal.com]

the Winchesters are no longer the heroes of this story and their position as such has been completely usurped

I couldn't agree more. And I don't see any heroes in this mess of a story right now either.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It's weird. I was on the edge of my seat watching it because I kept thinking it was going to go somewhere really interesting. And then there were these long Metatron talking scenes and angel scenes and predictable Sam getting knocked out so he can some and "save" Dean (only he didn't) scenes and then by the end the black eyes were the icing on the cake of - oh. They actually did go there. Just as everyone had predicted.

I will watch next season as well because I'm too invested. But I doubt I'll write reactions anymore. There's just nothing to say. Creating a whole season that essentially amounts to nothing for Sam and Dean means there's nothing left to write about. Sadly.

[kazluvsbooks.livejournal.com]

This makes me sad,Ash.
I loved it.

I felt that this finale was all about the brothers.I really felt their connection and that they love each other..no matter what..

I agree that we didn't get much from Sam's point of view but when have we ever?

Certain moments will stay with me forever and i am looking forward to where Season 10 takes me..

[auntmo9.livejournal.com]

Forgive the incoherent ramblings of an overworked, sleep deprived person ahead of time.

I don't know if it was because I read too much speculation about the finale beforehand but it just left me flat.

We can get a whole elaborate scene when the brothers are pissed off at each other or doing each other wrong. But when they're making up they can't say more than five words to each other before cutting each other off or we get "I lied." And some hugging and crying. That's just ridiculous.

And of course we talked about the fact that they aren't heroes anymore. They've lost their own mission.

I just don't think there's a solid direction anymore. I feel like the storyline is all over the place and there are so many loose threads that they've lost track of as writers. For example Abaddon was taking people souls and raising her own army for this battle. Now that she's dead, what is happening to that army she was raising. Did the writers just forget about that? Or was that just a nice plot device for that one episode? And that's just one example of so many missteps this season and it's a minor example of that.

I'm not someone who can do all dark, all angst. What I have loved about this show is that it always brought some lightness, some humor in the midst of a horror show, especially with moments between the boys. It has also lost that. I have to think hard about the last time it made me smile or laugh, especially with moments between the boys. And looking forward to next year, I have to wonder when, where and if those moments might come.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Thank you sweetie.

Show and some elements of fandom have been pretty horrid this season.

In some ways, I feel a weight lifted off my shoulders. It'll be easier not to care any more. Sad of course, but I will always love the characters I originally fell in love with. And hopefully continue to enjoy the fan works it produces.

And there were some nice SamnDean moments that I'm sure we'll see a million gifs of. Out of context I can enjoy them.
xx

[chomaisky.livejournal.com]

I feel like, I kept wishing for that one thing the show promised in the beginning of this season, and after one year's searching I finally realized the thing had been tramped on and deserted and forgotten long before, and the background noise of Metatron's laughing just won't stop. Yeah I still hear it now.
Actually I know Metatron has nothing to do with my depression. Or, maybe a little.
Maybe there's still one good thing: Demon Dean looks hot.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It makes me sad too. Like, really. But I've reached this point a few times since Carver took over. I've almost run out of sadness now because it's been building all season.

And I agree - there were lots of lovely brother moments - it;s just because they didn't amount to anything in terms of their relationship (no new understandings, no new growth, no appreciating what's happened before) that even those couldn't salvage it for me. I loved seeing them, don;t get me wrong. But having a reveal that Sam "lied" is equivalent to Sam confessing he loves Dean. We know that and have known it since the first episode. Now, if they touched on why he "lied" it might have meant something. But that was never the point.

I agree that we didn't get much from Sam's point of view but when have we ever?

Yeah. And it's all just too much for me now. There's only so much of Sam the cardboard cutout that I can take. Not to take away from Jared - he's done remarkably well with very little.

I think when and if they actually mend this relationship I will be able to look back and see how this season fits into the overall relationship arc. In the mean time I'll be left with wondering what exactly Dean was proud of. How they kept failing this season? Or maybe how they keep fighting even though they don't stop to actually think about the consequence of their actions.

But yay hun! I'm so happy it worked or you. And in fact, I know it worked for so many and I am truly happy about that. And maybe in a couple of weeks I will be able to look back and enjoy what we did get much more. In fact, I'm sure I will. :))

[stripytights.livejournal.com]

I'm torn on it. On the one hand I have this terrible, fragile hope that maybe it'll get better next season, but on the other hand I feel like I've been hoping for that for a long time and not getting it. But I'll be back, I know I will.

There were moments and elements that I liked. I liked that some attempt was made at a rapprochement - not that it was a good one but I feel like starting off next season with an assurance that Sam won't give up on Dean combined with the demon eyes is a better place than some ways it could have gone.

On the actual episode front - acting wise, I really felt that nobody brought it at all. It's kind of sad that the one person I wanted to see more of was the redheaded angel denouncing Metatron. As for the structure it was dire. So. Much. Talking. I livestreamed it with a friend who doesn't watch SPN at all and only knows it through me and she was puzzled at the sheer quantity of Metatron and how boring he was, which pretty much says it all.

I think there are salvageable things there, and that they'll be more apparent on a rewatch. I also think there's a set up for a potentially much more interesting core-idea in s10. But I'm an eternal and irritating optimist.

[josieb1.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed if. I can't really explain why I just I did and I wasn't expecting the ending so looking forward to next season

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I've been watching this season with a different filter, because this is not the show of the first five seasons (obviously.) This year, especially, I've been trying to make sense of wtf Carver has been trying to do. Still dunno.

I used to want Kripke (and Edlund) to return to the show and see it out, but I don't know if they'd have it in their hearts. (Edlund has already declined fandom's kind invitation. ;)) Earlier this season, I was going through the heartbreak you are now, ash. The realization my old show is long gone. This new one is...something else. It's kinda like comparing my life before kids and my life after; it's still my life, but a whole different animal.

So I still enjoy the pretty and the genre, and I'll still be using the canon for fandom fodder, but I think Tebtosca hit the nail on the head: the Winchesters are not the heroes of the story anymore. But isn't that the way with heroes? Feet of clay and all.

J2 did a sturdy job, but I never quite bought Dean's addiction. Amber1960 had a great point in that this season should've been condensed by half, with the later eps focussing on Sam's quest for a cure. Then Jensen could've really amped up the grim urgency of the MoC. Carver's pacing was shit. (Who knows how much of this was network-dictated, though. I try to keep, in the back of my mind, the reminder that TV shows have multiple demands placed on them, the least of which is fandom expectations.)

So...no, no surprises. I'm frankly relieved. I am looking forward to seeing what Crowley is up to, some delicious demon Dean, further Sam and Cas scenes, and hopefully, a return to Mystery Spot Sam. Hey, if Carver is into recycling, that's a tasty Sam to revisit...

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

the Winchesters are no longer the heroes in this story, and their position as such as been completely usurped

Pretty much this. SPN has turned into the Angel Show. Dean DIED, and we weren't even given the chance to mourn him with Sam before more dumb angel crap popped up.

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

My problem is more that it ISN'T giving us something different from the Sam and Dean we fell in love with. It felt like it was trying to give us ~feels~ that have been stale for a few seasons now, and bringing home the lesson that there can be no change or progress, ever, only recursion.

Maybe later I will be able to consider that grimly effective. Maybe "I'm proud of us," was meant to be empty. Maybe the story of Sam trying to define family as something other than the Winchester sacrificial model and failing miserably and falling back into the mold is moving. Maybe Dean still being the guy who 'protectively' nullifies Sam's choices by knocking him out is meant to be horrifying -- just because he's not saying it's a dictatorship doesn't mean it still isn't Dean making a decision for Sam and imposing it by force. But it feels sort of like the show went around thinking it might try some new and different flavors for sustenance and then decided fuck it and just ordered a pizza. A pizza that was cold and congealing by the time it arrived.

However, I'm not made of stone. Jared's messy crying still does things to me, no matter how exasperated I am with the context. And I think demon!Dean could have potential. At very least, I think it will be something Jensen can do more interesting things with than his frankly pretty awful crazed by bloodlust performances. He's an actor who is better at subtle.

I really enjoyed Gadreel. Why couldn't we throw out all the other minor characters and keep him, instead of being stuck with Metatron? Crowley I'm a bit bored of, but at least he still has interactive chemistry and his plot potential is less grandiose and more interesting.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I actually think Sam may have been the least cardboard character this particular episode. And here's the thing, ash--I don't exactly want a mended relationship for the guys, I just want them on equal footing.

I don't know exactly what Dean was proud of either, but I liked the line. Looking at it from Dean's POV, I think he was just proud that the Winchester brothers, such as they are, got as far as they did. It ain't easy being a Winchester.

But I do feel you, sweetie. I do!

[harrigan.livejournal.com]

I think I agree with almost all the longer comments here... My positive reactions after the episode were:

I really like Jensen and Jared and want them to have job security and a work environment that gives them joy (I wish everyone had that!), and a crew that's been together mostly for 9 years gets to continue doing what they love with people they love - that's all good.

I don't have to avoid spoilers and interviews now. That's good.

And *maybe* we'll get more of Sam's POV in season 10?

But mostly - yeah. What you said. (I didn't even like Jared's hair!)

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

Dean girl here. Didn't shed so much as a tear during Dean's climactic death scene. How much do you have to mess up a show to achieve THAT?

I enjoyed it somewhat more than you, but "love"? Nope, not at all. :(

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I just don't think there's a solid direction anymore. I feel like the storyline is all over the place and there are so many loose threads that they've lost track of as writers.

THIS! I mean, I get leaving some threads loose to pull later, but the sheer quantity of them in Carver's tenure? I could knit a sweater.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

But I'm an eternal and irritating optimist.

Me too, punkin, ME TOO.

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

A v-neck sweatervest for Sam, I hope.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I agree with every word of this. Even though I do tend to like cold pizza better than hot, IRL...