My Top 5 episodes of Season Nine.

[ash48]

In preparation for S10 starting in 10 days (WOOT!) I thought I'd reflect on S9 and pick my top 5 episodes (though I ended up cheating a bit…)

No doubt about it, season 9 was a difficult one for me. I felt like it started with such enormous potential but as it didn't go in the direction I thought it was going to go (and examination of Sam's numerous possessions and Dean's inherent need to "save" Sam), I was left feeling disappointed. There were some great episodes, some not so great ones and some (many) that left me incredibly frustrated.

I want to go into Season 10 a little more positive than I left season 9 so I thought I'd revisit the season and look at some of the episodes I either really enjoyed or felt were strong.

Looking at the season in its entirety, we can see this was mostly about Dean becoming a demon. I think the season successfully told Dean's story and by the end we can see a clear journey arc for his character. It wasn't exactly pretty, but for Dean to "realistically" become a demon it shouldn't have been. I felt it also had a pretty clear "human" story arc for Castiel. I don't think it was as thoroughly handled as Dean's story, but it was fairly clear. He discovered more about human nature and what it means to be human. The same with Crowley. His story was mirrored by Castiel's - in that they both experienced what it's like to be human. Sam didn't really have a story as such - his main role was to bring about Dean's demonness - which he did end up doing rather successfully. His story could have been about possession and his repeated loss of agency, but it never really featured, other than to cause the angst between the brothers. Again, Sam managed that very successfully too.

I am trying to leave out my (probably obvious) bitterness over the fact that Sam was mostly used as a plot device. I suppose we did witness just how strong Sam is and how well he handles everything that's thrown at him. Aside from his few comments to Dean about the possession not much else really happened for him (and no, I don't consider him being Zeke/Gadreel his story arc). I thought we had witnessed an incredible realisation from Sam that there are certain lines that can't be crossed when bringing each other back from the dead, but alas, that fizzled as the season drew to an end. Though we did get to see the depth of his own self-loathing - more than once saying that he couldn't see the upside to being alive. (Though, it's a little strange coming after the "I can see light at the end of the tunnel" speech in S8). Aaanyway. I've already said enough about all that in past reviews, so moving right along. In no particular order...



1. 9.01 I Think I'm Going to Like it Here by Jeremy Carver. Directed by John Showalter




Even though the full potential of this episode didn't play out (or hasn't as yet), I still consider it one of my favourites of the season. I loved that we got to see Dean's turmoil in having to make a very difficult decision (angsting brother love yay!, I loved seeing inside Sam's head (telling himself he's done enough, time to go) and it was great to see Death again. I liked the way this episode set Dean on his journey to demonhood and presented this beautifully complex dilemma of how far is too far when saving each other. It also set up a great mystery because even this early on, we were suspicious about the seemingly "good" angel. I enjoyed getting to see inside Sam's head and seeing how he was rationalising moving on. I also remember thinking that the shit was going to hit the fan BIG TIME when Sam found out and being really curious about how that was going to play out (and even though it really did hit the fan, unfortunately most of the shit ended up landing on Sam which was a little unfortunate, as it's almost the entire reason why this season is so difficult for me).


2. 9.13 The Purge by Eric Charmelo and Nicole Snyder. Directed by Phil Sgriccia




I re-watched this recently and it's one of the few episodes from the season that I am happy to re-watch. Sam as a yoga instructor and drugged!Dean could be major reasons for that *g*, but there was also a pretty cool MoTW, an awesome new character - Sheriff Donna Hanscum (hope we get to see her again) and of course that final scene that pretty much turned everything (and fandom) on its head. I like that the boys were working well together (as they had in pretty much every episode leading up to this one) and even though Sam had proclaimed that their relationship was now purely "business", we could see by his actions (and worry and concern over Dean), was anything but.

I think my only episode review that contained capslock during S9 was this one. Before I had realised how fans had actually reacted to Sam's words I was squeezing load over Sam's words to Dean. To me, the season had suddenly taken real shape. I had found an anchor for what this season seemed to be all about. They started having a discussion about what was going "too far". It was exciting and seemed to be a step in the right direction for both characters. But ALAS! Instead of being any of the things I got excited about, it ended up being a kind of mockery of those things. Dean learned nothing and Sam communicated very poorly (and was consequently vilified by fandom. *sadface*). THAT SAID, I still love it. Looking back, it was very much about pushing Dean to say yes to the Mark and helped continue his demon journey (EDIT! I won't delete that line, but it's wrong. Dean already had the mark by this episode) . I still think "you brought me back for you", is one of the best and most revealing lines about the characters in the season. If this ends up being examined more in S10, then I'll be one happy fangirl.



3. 9.19 Alex Annie Alexis Ann by Robert Berenes. Directed by Stefan Pleszczynski




My favourite thing about this episode is the writing of the female characters. It felt like a complex examination of family ties and ability to break them if you can see that they are harmful (which, at the time seemed to be a comment on the brothers' relationship but it was never really made clear enough to confirm that). I loved that Jody was given some more character depth and we could see how she's been able to move on through all her tragedy. It also helped that the women didn't need rescuing and existed outside of romance or purely victim. We also got to see more of Dean's journey to the dark side (and how much Sam's words have really effected him - "you wouldn't do the same for me") and Sam's ability to just keep swimming. Probably my overall favourite episode.


4. 9.04 Slumber Party by Robbie Thompson. Directed by Robert Singer




Ok, this was pretty silly but I loved seeing Charlie again. I also loved that we got to see a HEAP more of the bunker and we got to meet Dorothy. It's an easy watching episode, with some fantastic little moments (them all watching Game of Thrones, Sam's look to Dean after he says "there's no place like home" at the end etc.). And even though it wasn't obvious at the time, we got to see more of Dean's slide to the dark side. He not only made the choice to bring someone else back from the dead again, he used the angel inside his brother to do it. It's a small thing in some ways (and I know it makes Dean look even more like a hero, but it starts to bring into question what it means to be a hero) but these kinds of decisions build up to create a Dean who is piling on the questionable choices. It didn't hit all the marks that he could have done, but it was a fun one to re-watch.


5. Picking a 5th one has been very difficult as there really isn't another complete episode that I loved enough. Instead, I'll pick some moments I loved from various episodes.


5a) 9.02 Devil May Care by Andrew Dabb. Directed by Guy Norman Bee

Actually, this is a pretty solid episode. There were great visual moments and it gave us a little more information about the nature of the angel possessing Sam.



The scene between Abbaddon and Dean was not only sexy as hell, it's probably the reason why Dean became particularly focused on killing Abbaddon later in the season (*head canon*). I loved that Dean is threatened with possession. I thought this might have given Dean (and the audience) an opportunity to reflect on what he'd allow happen to Sam. But, alas that didn't happen (though I'm going to read it like that because I LOVE the irony of it).




Sam and those glorious angel wings! Fantastic scene - there were some awesome special effects in this season.





I remember really loving this final scene. It suggested that Sam was on the mend and happier than he's ever been (which, of course, is all sorts of wrong considering he has an angel living inside of him) and we get to see how conflicted Dean is about the situation. It was a real "calm before the storm" moment.


b) 9.11 First Born by Robbie Thompson. Directed by John Badham.



The casting of Timothy Omudson as Cain is pretty much why I like this episode as much as I do. I really enjoyed all his scenes and we get to see just how dark things have become for Dean. Crowley is seen as the "baddie" he really is (manipulative meanie) and we learn the history of Cain and Able (and start to wonder how that relates to Sam and Dean). The was a HUGE body count in this episode. Demon vessels are a dime a dozen and even awesome new characters (Tara) aren't immune from being killing off immediately (that's not something I liked, just an observation. I'm not sure if the Show has forgotten each demon (and angel) is a human vessel, or we have to accept them as collateral damage in this war).

Unfortunately the other half of the story - Sam and Cas - didn't work so well for me. I watched it again recently and had hoped that I could see what was trying to be done there. Other than creating a further connection between Sam and Cas (which - yay), I am still confused what we were supposed to take from it.


c) 9.10 Road Trip by Andrew Dabb. Directed by Robert Singer.

This is a pretty solid episode - just incredibly difficult to watch. As much of a hurt!Sam fan that I am, watching Sam being tortured here was pretty difficult. The utter lack of control Sam has over what's happening to him is frightening. I actually LOVE that aspect of it, but as we never really got to see what effect it had on Sam (other than being pissed with Dean) I think this episode was more giving Dean further motivation for his demonhood journey. Though, the moment Sam regained control and ordered Gadreel out was great - and a huge relief.




Sam kicking out Gadreel was a major highpoint of the season for me.


d). 9.23 Do You Believe in Miracles by Jeremy Carver. Directed by Thomas J. Wright.



As I am only choosing scenes for my number 5 I had to include this one. Any time one of the boys dies, we have a powerful scene. And even though I didn't find it as powerful as past brother-dying scenes, it still packed a punch because of wooby eyes (yes yes, crying boys and face touching and angst and more angst).

I actually didn't like this episode much at all - not necessarily because it's a "bad" one (though I don't really consider it a "good" one), it just didn't do enough after a whole season of massive angst between the brothers. For me, "I'm proud of us" is almost a mockery of everything that went before. SO much pain and hurt and misunderstanding and wrongness during the season, only to be given "I'm proud of us" to make it all better. I adore the sentiment - truly. It's perfect for the brothers and if Dean was dying in better circumstances (and not because he pigheadedly took on the Mark and then decided to face Metatron alone) then it would have been so much more powerful (I think. That's really personal. I know "I'm proud of us" means a lot to many fans. And it would for me - in other circumstances).

Then we had the birth of demon!Dean and that's all kinds of exciting. It opens up a whole new can of worms sets a new stage for S10.


I know there were many other enjoyable moments (like dog!Dean), but these are the ones that spring to mind when I'm looking back at S9.

I would like to think that I'll like S9 a lot better after S10. I am REALLY hoping it's the middle chapter and after the final chapter (S10) it will all make more sense.

I'll blather about my hopes for S10 in another post *g*.

Comments

[galwithglasses.livejournal.com]

Pretty much yes to all of this, but I would add that the fetch scene in the dog episode was funny and so well acted by both guys and so subtle for a show usually hitting us over the head with whatever. Also, the bunker garage is amazing. I liked Abaddon's back story with Josie. Josie had some real depth that I was glad we got to see a bit of. I liked Sam with the woman who had been the young nun.

I am really worried about season 10 and what they are going to do to Sam on his journey to get Dean. Really worried......

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yes, definitely the fetch scene! That was an absolute highlight! (the episode drove me nuts with those animal voices, but dog!dean was a hoot). And yes, I had forgotten about Sam and the young nun. That was really nice.

I am really worried about season 10 and what they are going to do to Sam on his journey to get Dean. Really worried……

You and me both. Soooo worried. I'll ramble more about that when I do my hopes (that will mostly be fears) for S10…;)

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I watched the Dog Dean one again the other day and found that the animal voices weren't quite as jarring as they were first time round (thank goodness) which meant I enjoyed the episode a huge amount more than I had on the first watching.
I haven't finished a rewatch of the complete season, which I'd intended to do before Season 10 started so maybe I'd better get a move on - only 9 days to go...
Had you seen the idea to spend each of the nine days looking at each of the 9 seasons so far? Looks like you are going in reverse! LOL

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I confess I haven't re-watched many episodes from S9 - so chances are, I might like more than these few. I find that looking back, things aren't usually as bad as I first thought.

Had you seen the idea to spend each of the nine days looking at each of the 9 seasons so far? Looks like you are going in reverse! LOL

Ha! Yes, I have seen that. I'm going to be away from Saturday - Wednesday (I'm back just as the episode becomes available here), and I'm not sure if I'll have reliable internet. So yeah, I won't be able to do that one. I've been enjoying others though! :D

[novakev.livejournal.com]

I'm going into season 10 hopeful. Hoping to see more Sam storyline and him and Dean back together. *spoilers* Hoping Dean will have something positive to say to Sam, though the spoilers do not lend to this. And I do like when the boys physically fight, so I have the bunker scene to look forward to.

On looking back at season 9, I have to agree with your list, though I would add Sam and Dean's final scene in Road Trip because, well, anytime Sam actually gets to speak is likely a favorite scene with me, especially in these last 2 seasons. :(

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hoping Dean will have something positive to say to Sam

That would be nice wouldn't it? Lately he seems to mostly put him down (well, make him aware of his failures). He used to show his pride in Sam - and perhaps there was a little bit of that at then end of S9 - but more would be nice.

And I agree - any time Sam gets to speak is good - which has been quite rare. Maybe they like to keep him as an enigma...;)

I'm hopeful for S10. Nervous, but hopeful.

[chomaisky.livejournal.com]

Your top two are my top two and it was unexpected that going from these two episodes, they managed to tell a story which undermined what Sam said in them. But I still think these two episodes gave us some solid Sam's POV.
S9 has many things which works for me despite the plot: winged Sam, yoga instructor!Sam, the promise of demon!Dean...the only thing that gets my hopes high for S10 is demon!Dean's hotness and his longer hair, and hurt!Sam. I'm a shallow viewer XP

[ash48.livejournal.com]

the only thing that gets my hopes high for S10 is demon!Dean's hotness and his longer hair, and hurt!Sam. I'm a shallow viewer

haha! yes, me too! I'm loving the look of dean's hair! And tied up Sam…? Well, I'll be in my happy place! (which I think I might need to be for some of S10…)

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

This line negated the Purge speech for me, sadly:

"I’ll give you this much, you are certainly willing to do the sacrifice, as long as you’re not the one being hurt."

Only good things about S9 for me were 9.19 (Bob hit it out of the park with that one) and Doodle lol

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Stupid line was stupid. Sam absolutely knows that's not true. More than anyone alive. I'll never understand why they made him say that (even the excuse of "you say the most hateful things when you're hurt" doesn't wash, because watching that scene again, Sam was very controlled. Pissed, but not flying off the handle and saying whatever came into his head. I thing we were supposed to believe he meant that. Which - NOPE).

Can't erase it now. Or the rest of S9, sadly.

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

I'm not completely done with my rewatch--6 episodes to go (I was planning on finishing this weekend but I am on call for my job and it has been a weekend of emergencies...)

I think you know I read your episode reviews pretty avidly and enjoy getting your take on things and how sometimes you make me see something in a very different way.

It's becoming harder and harder to mesh my 'headcanon' boys with 'showcanon' boys, sadly. And I fear, just as Sam's agency issues with another possession were swept aside pretty quickly, that Dean's issue with being a demon--what he fought against becoming and hated about himself when he piked up the knife under Alastair--will also be handwaved without consequences.

But I'm still going to watch!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

enjoy getting your take on things and how sometimes you make me see something in a very different way.

Oh thank you. I've been enjoying your recent reviews - I always love hearing how other people react to episodes - especially the ones I have difficulty with.

that Dean's issue with being a demon--what he fought against becoming and hated about himself when he piked up the knife under Alastair--will also be handwaved without consequences.

I am worried about this also. Purgatory!Dean was let go very quickly and I just hope this isn't let go so quickly. This should have huge ramifications for Dean - I hope that plays out satisfactorily.

I'll be watching too!! I won't be able to help myself! :D

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Love reading your POV, always! Can't linger long--much to do!--but I think 9.19 was my fave, as a whole episode. I adore Jody and the writing and directing really felt like vintage, Kim Manners SPN.

I've pretty much given up that the writers will seriously explore the important issues both boys have (because it seems TPTB feel that the audience-at-large will be bored by it), so I'll grab what I can of it, and hope for a little Sam POV and fair treatment for all characters. I do agree it seems the whole of S9 was setting up the groundwork for Dean's slide into demonhood. I can see Sam's dangerous pursuit to 'rescue' Dean, come S10, becoming a valuable lesson in how it is NOT always the best plan to save each other, at all costs. And maybe this will be Sam's way of redeeming himself for not looking for Dean in early 8. (This is not me justifying that stupid plot point, but trying to predict what the writers' are going for. Which I am notoriously bad at, to be honest!) The tables have very much turned, and perhaps it will take walking a mile in each other's boots to do some serious mending.

All that being said, I'm SO VERY EXCITED FOR DEMON!DEAN. (Redacted for spoilers, hee!) *gimmesmartsamgimmesmartsam...*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey!

9.19 was so strong! It was great to see the women being treated with the respect they deserve. I have to say, I am very impressed with the way they have handled Jody. I hope like hell they keep that up. *pleeeeaase*

I've pretty much given up that the writers will seriously explore the important issues both boys have

Yes, they seem happy to give us the issues but leave the interpretations up to us. The fact that there's such a variety of fan reaction to the situation between the boys is testament that they haven't been clear about what they are trying to say. Which, could either be clever or, you know, not.

The tables have very much turned, and perhaps it will take walking a mile in each other's boots to do some serious mending.

I'd love to see this. Especially the mending part - proper mending though, not token words.

I am also excited for demon!Dean! I think Jensen will own it! Bring it!

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

The tables have very much turned, and perhaps it will take walking a mile in each other's boots to do some serious mending.

I really have to note that Sam has walked in Dean's shoes plenty of times, technically more times than Dean has. Sam helplessly watched Dean die more than 100 times in Mystery Spot and went to horrible lengths to get him back, being willing to risk killing Bobby in order to get to the Trickster. He saw Dean torn to pieces by hell hounds. That led him to starting the Apocalypse in order to avenge Dean. He saw Dean disappear in an explosion along with Dick Roman and Cas. To act as if Sam just needs to know how HARD it is for DEAN when Sam dies, or almost dies ignores the fact that Sam has already walked in those particular shoes and come to the conclusion that letting go is better than becoming an obsessive, cold human focused only on getting Dean back, or becoming a revenge filled person who almost ends the world.

I do believe that Dean needs to walk in Sam's shoes and learn what it feels like to be a creature tainted by being supernatural, but Sam? Sam has learned his lesson very well. The only difference is that Sam learned that interfering with the normal order is worse than living with his own personal grief and loss and Dean didn't like that lesson and blamed Sam from acting on what he learned.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm a Sam!girl; you don't have to convince ME that Sam has suffered and seen Dean die, time and again, and has practically run a marathon in Dean's shoes. The "walking a mile" comment was taking into account that the current batch of writers aren't particularly well-versed in prior seasons. (I didn't make that clear, though; my bad!) We're kinda forced to look at what's going on in the immediate history of the Brothers Winchester; if we assume the characters are going to refer to events that happened years ago--sometimes even ONE year ago--we're sure to wind up annoyed with current canon.

To play a wee bit of devil's advocate, both boys have lived their lives as 'other'. They've never operated within societal norms. They've never fit in, even within their own sub-culture. As the series trods on, very few hunters accept and/or trust them.

I've stopped trying to find continuity to their recent character development, and I'm just watching things unspool, taking glee where I can! I'll make up my own derned headcanon to explain stuff. ;)

(But I do agree with you, if we're to believe there's character consistency...)

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I know you're a Sam girl, and I'm really reacting more to the fairly constant drumbeat over season nine of "Why doesn't Sam understand that Dean loves him SO MUCH!I can't wait for Sam to be in Dean's shoes so he can understand how Dean felt! Then we can watch him be a horrible hypocrite and we will rejoice" I'm sorry I over reacted you your post when it's simply that you used words that so many others have to misrepresent Sam's actual experience. I know the writers seem to want us to only consider the actions from the seasons that Carver was in charge, but many fans have watched from the beginning and should know that it simply isn't the case. Sorry!

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I feel you TOTALLY. It's terribly frustrating, and I didn't phrase my response accurately. *hugs; commiserates with*

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

9.13 The Purge Looking back, it was very much about pushing Dean to say yes to the Mark and helped continue his demon journey. NO! NO! NO!

First, I'm going to apologize for my rant before I start ranting. I've been fighting this one all year on all sorts of boards. Dean already HAD the mark in The Purge. In Road Trip, Sam kicks Gadreel out and Dean goes off in fit of pique, declaring himself "poison" before Sam had much chance to say two words! Dean has been told that throwing Gadreel out of Sam will kill him, but Dean takes off not knowing if Sam will drop dead in the next day or two, you know, just in case Gadreel was telling the truth and maybe Cas can't heal Sam with his stolen, (we're not sure if it works, let's take it out for a test drive) grace. Dean gave Sam about 10 seconds to forgive him absolutely (Or I'll go off and do something more stupid than selling my soul!) then he goes off and does something more stupid than selling his soul. (Okay, I'm being hard on Dean, but really look before you leap man!)

As for becoming a demon, even that's not in any way related to how Sam behaved. Crowley said that the legend said that the Mark would not let Cain (or anyone bearing the Mark) die. Dean was going to become a demon, no matter what. The only thing we were spared by Sam being distant was Sam researching the Mark, finding out about Dean becoming a demon when he died getting Season 3 "I'll save you Dean! OOPS, maybe not," redux.

What this really shows is the big problem with the writing this year. Even people who like Sam and sympathized with him remember the progression as Dean tricks Sam into possession, Sam throws Gadreel out and finds out the truth, Sam says mean things to Dean in The Purge, Dean goes and gets the Mark because he's hurt. What's really amusing is that you list both The Purge and First Born as your top episodes AND you list the episode numbers for each and the idea that The Purge came before Dean took the Mark is still what sticks in your head.

The sad thing is that what really happens takes away the idea that Sam had any part in the season arc. Just like you, I wanted the story to be about how far was too far, Dean's inability to let go, why Sam letting go after season 7 wasn't a bad thing. Instead it became about how Sam drove Dean to demonhood and that isn't even what happened. For all the effect Sam had on the season he could have been wallpaper, or a sexy lamp. He didn't get to express his emotions about possession. He didn't have a POV. Heck he didn't even make Dean susceptible to taking the Mark. Sam did absolutely NOTHING of importance this season. The show is on very thin ice for me.

I did like the episodes you liked, although I would probably switch out Mother's Little Helper for Slumber Party, because at least Sam got to free souls in that one.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Dean already HAD the mark in The Purge.

ACK! My bad!! *hangs head in shame*. And here I was giving myself a good reason why the show made Sam so harsh. Boo!


As for becoming a demon, even that's not in any way related to how Sam behaved.

Believe me, I'm not saying that because I want it to be so - or that I am in any way happy about it. In my head, I just can't see what USE Sam was in S10, other than to help push Dean toward demonhood. By seeing that Sam was used as a plot device helps me see how the writers actually see Sam. I don't want it to be so (makes me very unhappy I can tell you), but I seriously cannot see any other reason for Sam's possession (and then bitterness towards Dean) if it wasn't somehow connected Dean's self loathing and self destructive state of mind (and in turn show how damaging their relationship can be).

What's really amusing is that you list both The Purge and First Born as your top episodes AND you list the episode numbers for each and the idea that The Purge came before Dean took the Mark is still what sticks in your head.

I KNOW! MY BRAIN WENT INTO A FREEZE! Actually, I've been sitting on this post for over a week - knowing that something was wrong. BAH! I'm kicking myself. And it IS weird that I have it in my head that it was after Sam's words that Dean got the Mark. Why did I think that?!

The sad thing is that what really happens takes away the idea that Sam had any part in the season arc.

Yes. Exactly. In my mind Sam didn't have an arc this season. Or, if he did I can't see it. If his role wasn't somehow crucial to Dean's journey (and I don't mean it's Sam's fault that Dean is a demon - AT ALL!) then what was he even doing there?

So yeah, my conclusion that Sam existed merely to assist Dean's journey still holds true for me (even though I messed up those episodes /o\). I hate it and what I (think) I am going to hate EVEN MORE is that S10 will no doubt continue this line and eventually have Sam take the blame for Dean (which, I don't think he did in S9) and do something equally stupid to "prove" his love for Dean. Argh - I wasn't going to grumble about S10...

Thanks for putting me straight! I have re-watched only a few episodes from S9 and Dean getting the mark after being shunned by Sam was making some sense to me. So, now *head adjustment*... Dean drove himself toward the mark because of his self hatred for what he did to Sam - or just his self hatred generally.

Ok. Now that I've shifted my thinking I'm sure there will be other things that will occur to me (like maybe the mark was beginning to affect Dean as early as The Purge episode).

Thanks. :)

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I do think that the Mark started to affect Dean almost immediately. Several people commented that The Mark didn't change how Dean behaved that much. He wasn't much more violent than normal. I do think that was the point, that Dean got the Mark because he was already aligned with it.

I honestly don't think Sam had a part in the story in season nine, at all really. I do think that in the end, the writers are going to go the easy way and blame Sam for Dean taking the Mark, becoming a demon. They are then going to show SAM being 100% evil or at least wrong for trying to save Dean. Poor Sam, damned if he does and damned if he doesn't; and sadly for Sam, this is literally true. I think I have to get used to the fact that this is Dean's world and story and Sam is just part of the furniture. As you see, I'm not optimistic about next season.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Poor Sam, damned if he does and damned if he doesn't; and sadly for Sam, this is literally true.

I know. :( I was excited for demon!Dean as I thought we might finally get to see a side of Dean that we CAN'T sympathise with. But knowing that Sam goes even more darkside (and demon!dean actually just looks like a charmer), it seems Sam will be the one (AGAIN!) having to be redeemed.

If they do that - I want it to be SO extreme that "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" is made really clear. We actually get to see and understand the tragedy that is Sam Winchester's life (they won't do that either, as he'll just end up saying sorry and having to pay for his sins all over again).

I WANT to be positive for S10 - but the last two seasons don't bode well for the next Carver installment.

[runedgirl.livejournal.com]

I love reading your thoughts, and I agree with most of what you said here. It's always interesting to go back and think about a season knowing the end game, but there are still parts of S9 that will never ring true to me. That said, there's alot I did like - and I'm super excited about S10 :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey hun!

I wanted to go back and reflect on the season, in the hope that some of the problems I had might be easier to handle. Some of it is, but there's still some stuff that I really wish they hadn't done. I still hope that it was designed with S10 in mind - with some proper healing for both of them.

I am also excited for S10! From the clips I've seen it's looking pretty interesting (and I gotta say Dean with longer hair is workin' for me! :D)

*holds on for the roller coaster ride*

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

2. SUCH a good episode. I'd actually disagree that Sam communicated particularly badly, though? The fact of the matter is that survivors of abuse won't ever "communicate" perfectly enough to ~convince people who are unwilling to understand the problem. There will always be some pretext for invalidating what they say and ignoring what they experience. I thought Sam's effort at setting and maintaining those boundaries rang really true throughout the season and I honestly wouldn't have changed it. I don't know how I feel about what hasn't happened yet or the story in total, but I don't think I'd change what we have seen.

5(a). This is one of those scenes that gets so much more interesting in retrospect. Abaddon fixating on Dean as her ~type could arguably be a little weird, since you'd think she'd want to go after the one who, you know, set her on fire. But after Cain pronounces him "worthy" of the Mark, it's like...was she relating or responding to Dean specifically? And it neatly sets up his behavior in the back half of the season: he has the problems with his own course of action neatly laid out for him, and he responds by EVERYTHING WRONG IN THE WORLD IS ABADDON!!! Which ultimately looks like him answering her projection with more projection - SHE is the villain who represents all his misgivings about possession, SHE is the dangerous follower of Cain and destroying her will somehow exorcise any regrets he might have about what he did in taking the Mark.

(I just, like. VEHEMENTLY disagree with the fandom mindset that you have to find Dean in any way defensible in order to sympathize with him.)

5(d). I laughed so hard when the actors took credit for those lines. SO HARD.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'd actually disagree that Sam communicated particularly badly, though?

I suppose I wish instead of saying "I’ll give you this much, you are certainly willing to do the sacrifice, as long as you’re not the one being hurt." (which, I don't actually think it true) he said something about the very nature of what Dean had done to him.

I also wonder that if we are to see Sam as abused by Dean why wouldn't they be keen to allow us to be sympathetic to him? Or is it not as black and white as that? I've been very interested in your views regarding their relationship as abusive and even though I don't think I fully subscribe to it, I absolutely think there is an element of abuse there. I'm not sure co-dependency leads to a healthy relationship - and I certainly don't see the current state of their relationship as healthy at all.

SHE is the dangerous follower of Cain and destroying her will somehow exorcise any regrets he might have about what he did in taking the Mark.

Yes, it's a good point. I had trouble working out why Dean was so fixated on killing her - especially when he had Gadreel to go after.

5(d). I laughed so hard when the actors took credit for those lines. SO HARD.

Oh what do you mean?! As in - you don't think they chose them or the fact that they did. I have such mixed feelings about those lines.

Thanks for popping in. I'll be interested to read your thoughts as S10 unfolds.

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

I suppose I wish instead of saying "I’ll give you this much, you are certainly willing to do the sacrifice, as long as you’re not the one being hurt." (which, I don't actually think it true)

I don't know, I don't think he was that wide of the mark? I wouldn't have worded it quite that way, but I think he was making quite an important point - Dean accepts a lot of pain in pursuit of his goals, but he is at best uninterested in the pain that those desires cause others. And that's something that can't be laid on CARVER SUXXX because it goes all the way back to S1: Dean was carrying around a lot in the name of getting his family together - but he was the one that WANTED to get his family to all hunt together again, and he didn't care that it would have cost Sam a lot more than the suffering it caused Dean, because Sam didn't like hunting (Dean at least had that reward), he would've had to abandon ship on a way out of the life that he'd been working on for years, and the notion of ~family itself means a great deal more to Dean than to Sam (because Dean remembers a relatively happy family life, at least, and wasn't suspected of being literal demon spawn and treated accordingly the way Sam was). Dean might've been sacrificing throughout S1, but Sam was the one who was going to get hurt.

But that's not a realistic argument to expect Sam to make. I had to think it through pretty carefully to be precise about what I meant, and I'm not locked underground with someone who likes to roofie me. Sam was going way above and beyond in (1) trusting Dean enough to have him back in the bunker, (2) trying to open up a dialogue with Dean, and (3) being thoughtful enough that even people who are incentivized to ignore him only have one questionable sentence to hang their objections on. That's a lot! I don't think that's the show selling him short at all.

he said something about the very nature of what Dean had done to him.

I'm trying to understand here, why do you think it was so critical for him to explicitly revisit the possession trauma here? Is it a question of thinking the characters aren't clear on something, or that the audience was missing some piece of information?

if we are to see Sam as abused by Dean why wouldn't they be keen to allow us to be sympathetic to him?

I mean, I would disagree that the narrative didn't 'allow' us to sympathize with Sam, as shown by the fact that a lot of us do. I feel like fandom is doing the thing that usually happens to female characters, where we invent this arbitrary standard of Perfect Victimhood, where IF ONLY they somehow walked that line, then they would be justly rewarded with sympathy. (And, of course, it's what happens IRL, unfortunately.) When the point of those standards is that they are actually unachievable, and so showing Sam ~living up to them would ring hollow - and it would reinforce some nasty RL mindsets (that it's okay to expect that of people).

As in - you don't think they chose them or the fact that they did. I have such mixed feelings about those lines.

As in, if I'd had to pick one bit of dialogue which gave me even the slightest pause as to what I thought was happening with this relationship, it would have been that. Admittedly it's more bitterly vindicated laughter than actually amused laughter.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It's a good point about Dean. I think we tend to regard Dean's time in hell as suffering for a sacrifice he has made. But when we look at that sacrifice - trading his soul for Sam's life - we can see that Sam also suffered greatly (and did so as a direct consequence of that action for many seasons). I think Dean can be oblivious to other people's suffering when he feels like he's doing what he's doing for some greater purpose.

I'm trying to understand here, why do you think it was so critical for him to explicitly revisit the possession trauma here? Is it a question of thinking the characters aren't clear on something, or that the audience was missing some piece of information?

I think more so that Dean had a better chance of understanding the ramifications of what he did to Sam. He said he'd "do it again" (most horrifying lines in S9 for me), which means he has no idea of the true pain the caused Sam. (or does, and doesn't care). Perhaps talking around the topic is typical behaviour for an abuse victim. I don't really know.

I also think it relied on the audience to read between Sam's lines in that scene, rather than come away with a clear understanding of what he's trying to say (or rather, work out what's truth, what's anger and what's hurt). I have no issue with it (I still think it's a great scene), I suppose I just wish it hadn't been sooooo open to interpretation (again, that may be a good thing…but….*grrrr*)


I mean, I would disagree that the narrative didn't 'allow' us to sympathize with Sam, as shown by the fact that a lot of us do.

Good point. I suppose I see the little band of Sam sympathisers are, well, little.

I feel like fandom is doing the thing that usually happens to female characters, where we invent this arbitrary standard of Perfect Victimhood, where IF ONLY they somehow walked that line, then they would be justly rewarded with sympathy.</i Ah, now that's an excellent point. And sad also.

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

I think more so that Dean had a better chance of understanding the ramifications of what he did to Sam. He said he'd "do it again" (most horrifying lines in S9 for me), which means he has no idea of the true pain the caused Sam. (or does, and doesn't care).....I also think it relied on the audience to read between Sam's lines in that scene, rather than come away with a clear understanding of what he's trying to say (or rather, work out what's truth, what's anger and what's hurt)

Can people (Dean or audience members) sincerely plead ignorance, though? After we and Dean heard what Sam said in Road Trip, after we heard Dean himself say he knew it was a violation before he even decided to go along with it? For those purposes, Sam happening on the mythical perfect formula of words where he wouldn't get docked too many credibility points to be believed would IMO be redundant.

Perhaps talking around the topic is typical behaviour for an abuse victim. I don't really know.

I think it is, and in kind of a meta way, it's for reasons that I think are playing out in fandom as well as in-universe. Like, look at how Dean has responded whenever Sam has actually been forthright with him. Sam says he's hurting, Dean wigs about how HE'S HURTING WORSE, GOD SAM! Sam doesn't suffer enough and he gets ripped for being cold, or for "saying you're STRONGER THAN ME?!?" (ACTUAL QUOTE). When he specifically says "Dean, you hurt me" Dean yells at him for ~allowing himself to be hurt, then hugs Sam and implies (though doesn't explicitly make) a promise that he'll try and do better, and then turns around and hurts him even worse. Sam talking around the issue is a completely reasonable response to the events of the S8 finale/S9 premiere.

And that's how it happens - ANYTHING YOU SAY CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU. Sam being as vulnerable as he is in S9 means that he really can't afford to open himself up as wholly and consistently as people seem to want him to? Because when he lays himself open for the Beautiful Brother Moment that Dean/fandom consider to be acceptable behavior, it leads to things getting worse for him, and he cannot afford for things to get any worse.

I mean, I don't claim to have 100% clear understanding of authorial intent or whatever. I'm not arguing that this rationale is The Right And Only Way to read those lines. But I am pretty defensive of (a) the line as a good-enough line, one that wouldn't have this kind of ~weight of egregiousness in fandom if it were being received in context and on its own merits, rather than being stripped of narrative context and being used as the way in for people to make the arguments they would make no matter what and (b) the appropriateness of good-enough lines coming from fictional abuse survivors in general, because I think it's really important to challenge this idea that there's an accurate and acceptable way for survivors to be.

IDK maybe next season will be awful and I'll be disappointed! But blah blah, I'm talking a lot because right now I'm really looking forward to it.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your thoughts. :) I can't figure it out either. I just know that your arguments always makes sense and it makes it all the more heartbreaking. I find Sam's story heartbreaking enough as it is - and then add the layer of Dean being abusive, it's almost just too much to bear.

I'm always curious to see where each season takes us. I'm not sure I will be able to cope with much more Sam hate from fandom (especially when all he's doing is standing up for himself). we'll see! I am pretty excited just to have it returning. :))

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

1. i agree with both of the 1st 2 episode paragraphs as those are included in my top 5. 3 and 4 are a bit different from yours, they are what you have for your a, b, c, and d. mine are as follows-
1. 9x01
2. 9x13
3. 9x11
4. 9x02
5. 9x23-i agree with everything you said, i recently re-watched this episode to see if i feel any different, i still dont like it, admit it was sad, no impact at all. my cheat bonus ep is 9x04-it was nice to see Charlie again in that episode but there is a line in there something about Sam saying Charlie is *the smartest person ever* or something to that effect...and i had to do a double take as i didnt remember hearing that line when it 1st aired. other than that, i did like that episode.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what order I'd put mine in to be honest. I think the best episode was 9.19 - mostly for the writing. I liked 9.01 because we got some good Sam POV - so that might be my second fav.

And yes, Sam says she's "the smartest person in the room". I think it was just in recognition of the stuff Charlie had helped them with. :)