A tinsy bit of thinky on 10.01

[ash48]

Come on! You knew I'd have to do some (over) thinking.

A couple of things that I've been reading about and wanted to nut out here. I always love reading other people's interpretations on things because, I don't know, it just interests me I suppose.



Dean:

I've seen quite a variety of interpretations on demon!Dean (I refuse to call him deanmon because I just don't like that mash up). I got the distinct impression that this version of Dean lacked any "real" feelings. I didn't think we saw happiness, sadness or even anger. I didn't feel as though he was having a "good time" because it made him happy. More that it just made him feel good - sating a base need. In the past Dean drank because he was depressed or suffering PTSD, this time I got the feeling that he wasn't trying to suppress any feelings, rather just 'cause he could. It's his version of "howling at the moon". I didn't see an inkling of thought in regard to Sam - only that he just doesn't want to have to deal with him. Same with Anne Marie - no regard to her plight at all. I remember watching and looking for a hint that there's some residual care or remorse from this Dean. But I saw nothing. It was an aspect of Jensen's performance that I really loved (that said, I'm totally open to the idea that Dean does have feelings. The fact that he's avoiding Sam may suggest he knows he'll hurt him if he does and deep down he doesn't want to do that. Or that hurting Anne Marie was a way of deflecting and avoiding feelings he may have for her).


Sam:

I read an interesting idea that suggested that by Sam ignoring Dean's "Let me go" he's doing much the same as Dean did to him in S9 (and I suppose what Dean did when soulless!Sam begged him not to return his soul). Sam was ready to die in the beginning of S9 but Dean was determined to save him, Dean is ready to (essentially) die and live this new life and Sam is determined to save him. Personally, I'm not convinced because I think the situations are different, but it's an interesting idea. I think it's much more aligned to Dean ignoring soulless!Sam's pleas to remain soulless. Sam won't listen to Dean's pleas either because he knows this is not how Dean would want to live. I'll be curious if they are making a parallel because it will mean that the situation last season will be revisited.


I didn't come across any really good suggestions as to why Cas isn't in the bunker. Just not convenient for the storytelling I suppose.

(spoilery) Carver interview:

I came across this interview from Carver after 10.01 aired. I always hope he'll give some great insight, instead he just makes it all the more confusing. Aannway, he talks about Sam's shoulder (a bit of a let down) and how the Mark is effecting D!Dean (I can't make out his answer at all. Dean's a demon but the Mark will effect him more if he doesn't feed it. Which mean, he needs to feed the Mark in order for the Mark not to effect him…um…I…what?).

It's also spoilery for a new character (be warned!). And whenever Carver says "It's personal and it's going to pack more of a punch…" I get scared! Maybe we don't want to be constantly punched in the feels. How about tapped lightly on the shoulder - with all the gooey brother feels instead?

Anyway, make of that what you will. I'm not entirely sure he has a clue so I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

Comments

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

The only thing I can think of with Sam being 'the bigger monster' is that we are going to see more flashbacks of the torture of the female demon, that scene seemed incredibly unfinished and we also know that actress was hired for multiple episodes. Maybe we eventually see her reminding him that her meatsuit is a living breathing woman and he tortures and kills her anyway. Although the last couple of seasons the Winchesters have been written to not give a toss about the humans the demons are riding. That episode with Linda Tran creeped me out. I miss the days when that used to cause massive anguish.

I definitely think it's got to be about Sam torturing the human hosts. If he's cut a swathe through demon meatsuits, Demon!Dean may taunt him him with the fact that he's killed a bunch of actual people - I could deal with that, but if he's killed people not being used as meatsuits that would be horrific. If the writers go there and make Sam an outright murderer, I really will stop watching the show. That would be complete character assassination.

I definitely think Gavin will be back, otherwise introducing the character was pointless.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I didn't know she was hired for more seasons so - yeah, definitely more to come then. It could get very ugly - especially if the demon vacates (somehow) and Sam is left torturing a human…

Maybe we eventually see her reminding him that her meatsuit is a living breathing woman and he tortures and kills her anyway.

Yeah, that would be pretty full on.

That episode with Linda Tran creeped me out. I miss the days when that used to cause massive anguish.

Me too. It was horrible to see them condone (and encourage) the killing of a vessel like that.

Demon!Dean may taunt him him with the fact that he's killed a bunch of actual people

And that would be interesting - I think D!Dean may be wanting to kill some actual people of his own so if Sam does that Dean could call him out on it. Though Dean has killed plenty of meat suits so it would be a pretty hard call.

[z-publicizes.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't see how it would be worse if he's killing people not being used as meastsuits? It's not like the demon he was torturing posed a threat to him; he could have exorcised it and saved the woman, but he chose to take a knife to her instead because her body was nothing more than a tool to him. His only motive for killing her was so he could make the demon call Crowley. I also don't see why it would be worse if the demon had reminded him that she's possessing a living woman. It's not like Sam wouldn't know that, he's been possessed himself enough times. He was outraged when he thought Dean's corpse was being possessed, so the only conclusion I can draw is that he rates a live woman below Dean's corpse.

None of this would make him remotely more monstrous than Dean, who has done the same on many previous manhunts. Torturing the reaper while he was searching for Cas last season comes to mind.

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know. The writers have really veered off course with the demon/meatsuit thing. The Winchesters always used to care about the people that were possessed and then all of a sudden they didn't. I just meant that demon!Dean might start heavily rubbing it in with Sam that he used to care about them but now has no problem torturing and killing them and playing on that Winchester guilt thing they seem so good at. I can't honestly think what they could possibly have Sam do that would make him more of a monster than Dean being a knight of Hell. Maybe he's been sacrificing small children or puppies. (That was a joke...I hope!)

I can't for the life of me figure out what Carver has planned.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

Sadly, what I think he has planned is the same old, same old. Make human Sam do something unforgivable, while having the most demonic thing Dean does be calling a woman a skank. Dean will kill only demons, and we won't worry one little bit about THOSE meatsuits. But whatever Sam does he will be called out on, by everyone.

I do have to say that I think one of the things the demon blood that Azazel fed Sam did is make demons 10 times smarter than they usually are. Dean tortures demon after demon to find Lisa and they never say anything to try and make him feel guilty. Dean comes at them with Ruby's knife to kill them and they don't say anything to make him slow down. If Sam moves his pinky in their direction they are all "letting the person who owns the meatsuit out" and telling Sam he has lost his soul and become one of them. Sam shows up and suddenly demons get a sense of self preservation that they don't show with Dean.

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's the one thing I feel endlessly annoyed about with this show. Sam is ALWAYS made out to be the bad guy no matter that, for a lot of it, he's the actual victim, and Dean's stuff is always played down and he's made out to be the one suffering. I read an analysis once that said they thought it was the case because the show is told from Dean's POV so of course he sees Sam's transgressions as these huge unforgivable things that hurt him, and anything he himself does was for the right reasons. I guess that makes sense but it still shits me to tears.

What I find the most annoying is that there are viewers who see Sam the same way and I don't get it. Are we all even watching the same show? Grr