10.03 reaction/review
Oct. 22nd, 2014 10:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ash48I will not deny that my response to this episode is clouded by my expectations. I honestly went in dreading it, getting prepared to pack it all in and eating a block of chocolate to commiserate.
Instead I was left with such an overwhelming sense of relief (to the point of giddiness) that I've come away thinking it wasn't all that bad.
This was always going to be one of those episodes that would divide fans. It's the ultimate confrontation between demon!Dean and Sam. It was going to reveal what lengths Sam went to to find Dean and show us whether Sam would be successful (this time), in saving Dean. It was going to show us just how "bad" demon!Dean was and what role Cas would play in him becoming human again.
It was a big ask and I suspect many may feel let down by it. Dean was cured and Sam left the building.
But I found it engaging and didn't find myself as bothered by some of the things I'm sensing others have been bothered by.
Let's start at the end shall we? After many many months of Sam looking for Dean, being confronted by Dean, being verbally abused by Dean Sam finally captures him and cures him. He weathered the storm. We were hanging on for that final scene to be between him and Dean yeah? A moment that would let us know the state of their relationship now. Instead, Sam leaves to get food and asks Cas to watch over him.
For some reason (and maybe this will change), I was really ok with this. In fact, can I say I liked it?
Here's why. After everything that Sam had been through in finding and curing Dean that man needed some air. I know that sounds trivial, but boy. He has a lot to digest and to be able to go out and get his, now normal brother normal food has to be the best thing he could have done. There was NO WAY they were going to talk. I had absolutely NO expectations that they would. Sam's perfectly relieved face when Dean came back and his desire to feed his brother was just enough for me.
One big reason for this is how strongly it links to the past "resurrections". Instead of writing about it here - I made a tumblr post about it. I know we didn't get to have the scene of them eating-but the connection was there. It was also significant that we know that there's probably no way they could sit and share food together at the moment. Things are still raw, but Sam wanted to comfort and heal Dean and (for now) that's enough for me.
The was a full on SamnDean episode and so I wasn't surprised (or even disappointed) that we didn't get a bro scene at the end. Sure, I would have LOVED a hug - but it just didn't feel right. Sam's face spoke volumes though.
I even didn't mind Sam asking Cas to watch over him. It's been a long time since I've actually felt the genuine friendship between Sam and Cas and even between Cas and Dean. Finally, there's a sense of them all being on the same page.
I won't deny I was dreading that it would be something that Cas does that finally cures Dean, so I was relieved (relieved I tells ya!) that Cas actually helped Sam and not performed some "miracle" that cured him. I liked the team work.
I like Cas and Hannan ok? I just can't help it. Hannah is growing on me (shame, as I'm sure she'll die) and I can't deny I'd love to see them become an item (just 'cause).
I loved Sam in the episode (I know! shock eh?). He was so stoic under fire. He could have lashed out and did the same thing that Dean did to soulless!Sam and beat the crap out of him, but he didn't. He held back his hurt and anger and merely jabbed that needle in a little harder than was maybe necessary. He wasn't overly emotional and he didn't get hung up on guilt (at the moment) and let it all cloud his task at hand. He fought with his options and the knowledge that he might end up killing his brother. He trusted Cas and did what he thought was best for his brother.
And um..actually? I didn't think Dean's words were anything harsher than Dean has actually said to Sam before (like just before he went into confession in the church in 8.23). Or anything that Sam didn't already feel about himself. I didn't think anything out of Dean's mouth was a surprise - he's been hurt by much more ("if you leave, don't come back" in Levee Breaks). We know, deep down, that he thinks Dean thinks this stuff anyway (flashbacks in Levee Breaks, stuff that possessed!Dean said to him in S8), so I'm not surprised he took it as well as he did. Good for you Sam!
D!Dean was pretty scary, though I think the best performance was last week's. Which, is actually not a surprise. Jensen had 2 episodes under his belt by then. It was still pretty good and I am very sorry to see him go. Jensen clearly loved playing him and I hope that maybe they'll treat us with some flashbacks later (though, I suspect Jensen had is hair cut so maybe not…). I at least hope we get a "lighter" Dean and maybe new Dean channels demon!Dean every now and then because - hot damn! he was great (*guh* him constantly referring to Sam as "Sammy"..creepy…). And the difference when real Dean returned was so very noticeable. Credit to Jensen. I'm sure Dean's arc, or story, isn't over yet. The mark is still there and no doubt he'll have to reconcile his demon side at some point.
Loved the red lighting during the bunker chase.
Talks of them killing each other. Dean actually trying to kill Sam and Sam worrying about having to kill Dean. The only other time this has come up (as far as I can remember) is when Dean worried that detoxing Sam could kill him. The "killing your brother" might be revisited with the Mark still in play.
I was also surprised how much I enjoyed Crowley! (See, I WAS riding high by my relief!!) I loved him reminiscing about Dean and his minions trying to be like him. I think because I much prefer this "charming" Crowley to shouting, boring (sorry!) Crowley. I have no idea what his plan is for Dean (with the Mark), but it can't be good (I hope!). I do think he genuinely likes Dean though.
I know there were quite a few weaknesses (like, why doesn't Hannah actually act like an angel? She was hurt and didn't cure herself immediately (looked like a broken rib maybe?). Also… is Sam luring an innocent man (who he was planning to stop from making a deal anyway) as monstrous as Dean actually killing him? Or even all that problematic? I mean, Sam and Dean have killed innocent people many times. All those meat suits. And worse, have actually given an innocent person to another person (Mrs Tran) to kill. Is it as bad as non consensual possession? Killing a person to drink their demon blood? I don't know about you but it seems a bit try hard to me (for which I am damn relieved I have to tell you! I didn't want Sam actually doing something that was totally OOC).
That pie in Dean's room would have mould on it, for sure.
An angel "hug" (more like a circle of arms) can hold down a demon? Since..when?
"Hell" always looks disappointing when they show it. I like it when it doesn't look like some traditional idea of Hell (like the long lines of waiting people from that past ep…).
Boo, Sam didn't use his own blood to cure Dean (though, makes a heap of sense that he didn't really).
The pacing might have lacked a little and it did feel anticlimactic. Demon!Dean seems to have been cured far too easily (and quickly!). But I was good with it ending where it did. It felt like we could now get into some good ole MoTW stories, sans angels and demons for a while. I really want that! I want to see Sam and Dean, on the road, hunting monsters. Sure, their relationship will no doubt be tense but it can't be ANYTHING like it was last season. Can it? Did this feel like "nothing" to anyone else? Dean was a demon so all that can be excused on that (even if it comes out that some of it's the truth. It wasn't nearly as confrontational as the stuff they made Sam say to Dean in S9). Sam was determined and dedicated to the cause (and we even got POV and family pictures and pie!), he cured Dean, looked massively relieved, went an bought him comfort food for his soul and came out of the whole thing with little more than leading douche Lester into a trap. No doubt, there'll be deeper discussions about all that, but at the moment I'm just damn happy to not be weeping over my show.
I am interested to see what the discussion will be between them about "who's the bigger monster". It's a non starter as far as I can see. I still hope it becomes a discussion about what they do for each other, but at the moment I'm just happy that we got through this as relatively unscathed as we did.
(I did mention relieved didn't I?)
POLL (for some reason was screwing up positing it here).
Instead I was left with such an overwhelming sense of relief (to the point of giddiness) that I've come away thinking it wasn't all that bad.
This was always going to be one of those episodes that would divide fans. It's the ultimate confrontation between demon!Dean and Sam. It was going to reveal what lengths Sam went to to find Dean and show us whether Sam would be successful (this time), in saving Dean. It was going to show us just how "bad" demon!Dean was and what role Cas would play in him becoming human again.
It was a big ask and I suspect many may feel let down by it. Dean was cured and Sam left the building.
But I found it engaging and didn't find myself as bothered by some of the things I'm sensing others have been bothered by.
Let's start at the end shall we? After many many months of Sam looking for Dean, being confronted by Dean, being verbally abused by Dean Sam finally captures him and cures him. He weathered the storm. We were hanging on for that final scene to be between him and Dean yeah? A moment that would let us know the state of their relationship now. Instead, Sam leaves to get food and asks Cas to watch over him.
For some reason (and maybe this will change), I was really ok with this. In fact, can I say I liked it?
Here's why. After everything that Sam had been through in finding and curing Dean that man needed some air. I know that sounds trivial, but boy. He has a lot to digest and to be able to go out and get his, now normal brother normal food has to be the best thing he could have done. There was NO WAY they were going to talk. I had absolutely NO expectations that they would. Sam's perfectly relieved face when Dean came back and his desire to feed his brother was just enough for me.
One big reason for this is how strongly it links to the past "resurrections". Instead of writing about it here - I made a tumblr post about it. I know we didn't get to have the scene of them eating-but the connection was there. It was also significant that we know that there's probably no way they could sit and share food together at the moment. Things are still raw, but Sam wanted to comfort and heal Dean and (for now) that's enough for me.
The was a full on SamnDean episode and so I wasn't surprised (or even disappointed) that we didn't get a bro scene at the end. Sure, I would have LOVED a hug - but it just didn't feel right. Sam's face spoke volumes though.
I even didn't mind Sam asking Cas to watch over him. It's been a long time since I've actually felt the genuine friendship between Sam and Cas and even between Cas and Dean. Finally, there's a sense of them all being on the same page.
I won't deny I was dreading that it would be something that Cas does that finally cures Dean, so I was relieved (relieved I tells ya!) that Cas actually helped Sam and not performed some "miracle" that cured him. I liked the team work.
I like Cas and Hannan ok? I just can't help it. Hannah is growing on me (shame, as I'm sure she'll die) and I can't deny I'd love to see them become an item (just 'cause).
I loved Sam in the episode (I know! shock eh?). He was so stoic under fire. He could have lashed out and did the same thing that Dean did to soulless!Sam and beat the crap out of him, but he didn't. He held back his hurt and anger and merely jabbed that needle in a little harder than was maybe necessary. He wasn't overly emotional and he didn't get hung up on guilt (at the moment) and let it all cloud his task at hand. He fought with his options and the knowledge that he might end up killing his brother. He trusted Cas and did what he thought was best for his brother.
And um..actually? I didn't think Dean's words were anything harsher than Dean has actually said to Sam before (like just before he went into confession in the church in 8.23). Or anything that Sam didn't already feel about himself. I didn't think anything out of Dean's mouth was a surprise - he's been hurt by much more ("if you leave, don't come back" in Levee Breaks). We know, deep down, that he thinks Dean thinks this stuff anyway (flashbacks in Levee Breaks, stuff that possessed!Dean said to him in S8), so I'm not surprised he took it as well as he did. Good for you Sam!
D!Dean was pretty scary, though I think the best performance was last week's. Which, is actually not a surprise. Jensen had 2 episodes under his belt by then. It was still pretty good and I am very sorry to see him go. Jensen clearly loved playing him and I hope that maybe they'll treat us with some flashbacks later (though, I suspect Jensen had is hair cut so maybe not…). I at least hope we get a "lighter" Dean and maybe new Dean channels demon!Dean every now and then because - hot damn! he was great (*guh* him constantly referring to Sam as "Sammy"..creepy…). And the difference when real Dean returned was so very noticeable. Credit to Jensen. I'm sure Dean's arc, or story, isn't over yet. The mark is still there and no doubt he'll have to reconcile his demon side at some point.
Loved the red lighting during the bunker chase.
Talks of them killing each other. Dean actually trying to kill Sam and Sam worrying about having to kill Dean. The only other time this has come up (as far as I can remember) is when Dean worried that detoxing Sam could kill him. The "killing your brother" might be revisited with the Mark still in play.
I was also surprised how much I enjoyed Crowley! (See, I WAS riding high by my relief!!) I loved him reminiscing about Dean and his minions trying to be like him. I think because I much prefer this "charming" Crowley to shouting, boring (sorry!) Crowley. I have no idea what his plan is for Dean (with the Mark), but it can't be good (I hope!). I do think he genuinely likes Dean though.
I know there were quite a few weaknesses (like, why doesn't Hannah actually act like an angel? She was hurt and didn't cure herself immediately (looked like a broken rib maybe?). Also… is Sam luring an innocent man (who he was planning to stop from making a deal anyway) as monstrous as Dean actually killing him? Or even all that problematic? I mean, Sam and Dean have killed innocent people many times. All those meat suits. And worse, have actually given an innocent person to another person (Mrs Tran) to kill. Is it as bad as non consensual possession? Killing a person to drink their demon blood? I don't know about you but it seems a bit try hard to me (for which I am damn relieved I have to tell you! I didn't want Sam actually doing something that was totally OOC).
That pie in Dean's room would have mould on it, for sure.
An angel "hug" (more like a circle of arms) can hold down a demon? Since..when?
"Hell" always looks disappointing when they show it. I like it when it doesn't look like some traditional idea of Hell (like the long lines of waiting people from that past ep…).
Boo, Sam didn't use his own blood to cure Dean (though, makes a heap of sense that he didn't really).
The pacing might have lacked a little and it did feel anticlimactic. Demon!Dean seems to have been cured far too easily (and quickly!). But I was good with it ending where it did. It felt like we could now get into some good ole MoTW stories, sans angels and demons for a while. I really want that! I want to see Sam and Dean, on the road, hunting monsters. Sure, their relationship will no doubt be tense but it can't be ANYTHING like it was last season. Can it? Did this feel like "nothing" to anyone else? Dean was a demon so all that can be excused on that (even if it comes out that some of it's the truth. It wasn't nearly as confrontational as the stuff they made Sam say to Dean in S9). Sam was determined and dedicated to the cause (and we even got POV and family pictures and pie!), he cured Dean, looked massively relieved, went an bought him comfort food for his soul and came out of the whole thing with little more than leading douche Lester into a trap. No doubt, there'll be deeper discussions about all that, but at the moment I'm just damn happy to not be weeping over my show.
I am interested to see what the discussion will be between them about "who's the bigger monster". It's a non starter as far as I can see. I still hope it becomes a discussion about what they do for each other, but at the moment I'm just happy that we got through this as relatively unscathed as we did.
(I did mention relieved didn't I?)
POLL (for some reason was screwing up positing it here).
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2014-10-22 09:12 pm (UTC)I get the guys need time off, but I just glaze over when the angels are talking, couldn't for the life of me tell you what was going on, how they got lost, how the other angel found them, why Hannah decided to stay all bloody. It's just like an annoying buzzing static, same with those hell scenes, tired of the corporate queues of demons who are wearing meat suits in hell?? WTF is that all about? **throws up hands** Don't think it really matters....
I'm thinking Crowley saved Cas to save Sam so Sam could save Dean who still has the Mark of Cain and Crowley has the Blade of Cain so still has ultimate control of Dean - yes? Crowley still wants Dean to rule Hell with him...some of this plot is kind of weird isn't it? Oh well.
The Sam and Dean stuff though was excellent, they both seem to be having a great time, although I'm not sure I should be seeing that, it doesn't really matter though, it made a great viewing experience. I expected the low blows from Dean, as a demon he's well aware of how to unbalance Sam, where to cut. Again, I presume as Crowley was the crossroads demon he's still very much in charge of deals and knew what Sam had done and made sure when he swapped Dean for the blade that Dean also knew what Sam had done. Pretty smart plan of Sam's I thought, can't see how it makes it anywhere near 'monsterous', both have done far worse, Castiel, the angel of the Lord has been slaughtering angels and their human hosts for years - but that's my touchy subject. I do have to wonder though about the timing, did Crowley prime Dean before he sent him out to kill? Did demon Dean deliberately kill the husband because his soul was forfeit by Sam's plan? Hmmmm
Anyway, mostly I was disappointed by how clean and tidy everything was? I expected more in the way of pain and agony, what can I say, I'm probably more monsterous than Dean, Sam and Crowley combined! Dean didn't look wrecked by the experience at all and apart from a few needle marks came away looking better than he's done for years - I think that was a huge missed opportunity, but as I said, I'm evil like that...and practically, I suppose make-up and illness takes time and energy no one seems to want to expend any longer.
As an episode of tv it was entertaining in and of itself, but I could have watched a whole episode of those two slicing and dicing at each other verbally and physically trashing the bunker and themselves, shame about those long advert breaks.
no subject
Date: 2014-10-23 03:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-10-23 08:14 pm (UTC)Very much of an anti-climax, or rather non-existent climax - um, I should stop now before I start with the porn....
no subject
Date: 2014-10-24 11:31 am (UTC)Yep! I'd reckon so. I think demon!Dean was too out of control for him so he's had to make a plan B. No idea what that will be - but I hope it's good!
The Sam and Dean stuff was very entertaining. I could also see the fun they were having. Probably after the hiatus they were happy to get back to work. :)
Dean didn't look wrecked by the experience at all and apart from a few needle marks came away looking better than he's done for years
Indeed. It might have been good to see Dean suffer a little! (I was actually wondering if he was faking it in the beginning - but we got his POV without Sam and it looked like he was fighting it. I think the "looked better than ever" was deliberate. My feeling is that we were supposed to see how good being a demon was on Dean. None of the angst, none of the worries. And apparently Sam has copped some slack for taking that away from Dean. Dean's finally found a way to be happy and wham! Selfish Sam took it all away (which - man, I don't know what show they are watching, but really?). I wonder if we'll now see a more ruffled Dean now that he's (mostly) Dean again.
I suppose make-up and illness takes time and energy no one seems to want to expend any longer.
well, Sam looked pretty bad (worse though in the previous eps) so I do think it was a deliberate choice to make Dean look so good - more relaxed, not totally effected by the human blood (shame, because it would have been nice to see him really battling with it) I think we'll be revisiting the idea of how both the boys were much "happier" when soulless. Maybe. Who knows what delights Carver has in store for us.
A whole episode of just those two going at each other would have been amazing. Something we'll never see now unfortunately.
no subject
Date: 2014-10-24 12:56 pm (UTC)Still, though I expected Dean to look good as a powerful Knight of Hell, I think the cure itself should have wrecked his human self for the ending - what can I say, I loved 'Faith' and that was achieved with next to no make-up.... There wasn't even much of a 'cure worked' scene, one minute a growling, roaring (strange sound effect there, but saved his voice I .suppose) demon, next minute 'oh, hey there's Dean'.
And apparently Sam has copped some slack for taking that away from Dean. Dean's finally found a way to be happy and wham! Selfish Sam took it all away (which - man, I don't know what show they are watching, but really?)
WTF is wrong with people? Really fandom? Really? That's the show! That's what it's all about! Although, I can't say I'm surprised, after the backlash against Dean being such a controlling bully last season and the forcing of Sam's soul back into him without his consent highlighted as positive proof of the theory - despite the fact that Sam's soul would be tortured by Lucifer himself in the cage for fucking eternity - I suppose it's bound to be brought up as a comparison.
Heaven or Hell, it's a toss up, one you get used up as a battery for angels and the other you get tortured until you become a demon, no wonder these guys prefer to stay alive and on earth, it may be miserable and painful at times, but at least they have free will and each other, although I know for many fans that's never going to be enough for the suffering they have been dragged through and should be allowed to pass over peacefully.
'Carry on my wayward son, there'll be peace... ' not sure about that any longer, but the way heaven and hell stack up? I think if they knew about somewhere else, not Castiel's heaven and not Crowley's hell they might not fight so hard, but for now the only peace looks like life on earth once the job's done and that's an enormous task.
no subject
Date: 2014-10-24 02:19 pm (UTC)Some parts of fandom have been annoyed that it wasn't Sam's blood that was used to cure Dean, but it would have been so problematic. If he didn't do the confessions and went with the blessing (or whatever that was in the hospital) then we could have wondered why he didn't do that in 8.23. And we'd already had those amazing scenes of him injecting himself to get the blood for Crowley. We didn't to see that again. It wasn't about HIS blood this time.
And yes,it seems both Sam and Dean come under fire when returning them back to their original state. I think in both soulless!Sam and demon!Dean they both did the right thing - consent be damned! It'll be interesting to see if they compare Sam's lack of consent last season with Dean's lack of consent now. I doubt it - very different - but they might.
but for now the only peace looks like life on earth once the job's done and that's an enormous task.
That's a good point. I always wonder why they keep going. To finally have peace on earth might be worth it. To put those pesky demons and angels back in their places. Maybe that's when they can finally find peace for themselves.