11.14 reaction/review

[ash48]

Hot damn, that was some fine TV!

Different format because I'm feeling energetic. And erratic. So bullet points! :)

• Robert Berens = best writer on the show. Hands down.
  
  
• John Badham = awesome director. I have many fave directors on the show, so I can't claim he's the "best" because I think there are many "bests". He's definitely one of them!!
  
  
• I felt like I was watching a movie, not a TV show.
  
  
• I can't recall another episode where I was SO on the edge of my seat. I mean, we know the boys will always survive, but the tension was such that I actually worried for them. I loved that.
  
  
• Damn, that was some fine editing.
  
  
• Dean fixated on coffee in the morning. I UNDERSTAND THAT!
  
  
• Submarines. I feel claustrophobic just saying the word. Setting an episode (or part of it) in one is kinda genius. The total lack of escape is terrifying. This episode utilised that extremely well.
  
  
• Beren's creates well rounded, in-depth OCs. Even the guy holding the gun on Dean had character depth.
  
  
• Crowley as a dog was truly unsettling.
  
  
• I like the Men of Letters stuff. Always have. I like that the boys are not only hunters, but legacies.
  
  
• It made me wonder if there was also a separate "Women of Letters" - but after a twitter convo it seems women are Women of Letters within the Men of Letters. So. People of Letters really.
  
  
• I love that Berens doesn't treat us like idiots. Thank you for that. <3
  
  
• Role reversal - Dean begging Sam to let him do the dangerous thing (not often we hear Dean ask permission from Sam). Matches the previous ep of Sam telling Dean "he's got this". This also feels more organic than last season.
  
  
• Dean's (aka Jensen's) perfect lips are ridiculous. I was rather distracted by them in this episode.
  
  
• Misha's Lucifer is improving. I'm not fond of the screwed up face, but he was suitably menacing and creepy in this one. I am also enjoying watching Misha be something else. I like his non-Cas voice.
  
  
• I am so glad Cas as Lucifer has been revealed.
  
  
• Cas emerging to save Sam made me *heart eyes*. I love seeing Cas care for Sam. Like WHOA!
  
  
• Oh Dean. I like that his pain feels more organic this season. I dunno - it's had to explain. But the last two seasons were hard going and this just feels so much better for Dean's characterisation. I get that they needed/wanted to do "dark" Dean, but I much prefer this one. He's back to genuinely caring about people - wanting and needing to save them. I also feel Jensen is more in-tune with this Dean (purely personal opinion of course. I feel the same for Jared).
  
  
• Dean stating that he was only a "witness" was pure perfection. I spent the episode thinking "Dean's not doing anything" and that was EXACTLY the point (SO AWESOME!). Remember how ineffectual Sam felt in S3 when he knew he couldn't save Dean? I think this is somewhat the same. Dean knows he's can't kill Amara and feels useless. Love that we were shown this, not told it. I just hope - really HOPE that they don't make him wallow in stuff. Give me vulnerable, but don't give me self-pitying.
  
  
• Nice, quiet moment between the brothers at the end of the episode. <33 Maybe TPTB actually got the memo that we like the brothers being supportive of each other, rather than constantly at odds.
  
  
• Sam's concern for Dean putting himself in danger. I live for those moments. :)
  
  
• Sam offering his soul to be touched in order to save Dean. *drowns in a pile of drool*
  
  
• Sam's soul actually being touched by Lucifer. Non-con soul touching. Man, this show is fucked up.
  
  
• Great location for the final scene. Beautiful, thoughtful and appropriate.
  
  
• Edith Piaf is still in my head. I've been singing that song non stop! Love it.
  
  
  So yeah. I thought that ep was pretty awesome. Berens always makes me care more about the myth arc than any other writer. Dean and Sam continue to be the characters I fell in love with. It so REFRESHING that they aren't against each other. It terrifies me too (because surely this can't last), but I will enjoy while I can. :))

Comments

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I wasn't doing this deliberately but now you've posted this, I feel all I need to do is point to show my reaction to this episode! LOL

"I also feel Jensen is more in-tune with this Dean (purely personal opinion of course. I feel the same for Jared)." Interesting you should say that because I just watched an interview with Jensen from earlier this season in which he basically says almost exactly this. (It's on my journal, posted it today if you're interested. Only 10 mins and both vids, Jensen and Jared's, have some lovely BTS bits you'll like!).

I am SO with you on the sense of hazard, particularly in this episode. I wasn't expecting them to reveal Lucifer in Cas so soon, so when he suddenly turned on Sam I was genuinely surprised and worried for Sam's soul. I totally LOVE that they can do that to me after all this time and all the deaths and resurrections.

I had to tweet Berens because this was such a great story - and yes, if you want to torture Dean, put him in a situation where he's helpless and that will hurt him worse than beating him up.

Season 11 is making me a truly happy bunny!

Oh I forgot to say, the only thing I don't like at the moment is Misha's Lucifer and the Crowley part - I'm still finding he's making me cringe instead of shudder.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Interesting you should say that because I just watched an interview with Jensen from earlier this season in which he basically says almost exactly this.

Oh that's awesome! I think it's really coming across. :) And I'll definitely take a look at those. Thank you!

I totally LOVE that they can do that to me after all this time and all the deaths and resurrections.if you want to torture Dean, put him in a situation where he's helpless and that will hurt him worse than beating him up.

Yes. So much more powerful. We know how much he needs to be the "hero", so when he can't be it's devastating.

the only thing I don't like at the moment is Misha's Lucifer and the Crowley part

Yeah, Misha's Lucifer is hit and miss for me. At times I really like it but then at times it can be almost clownish. Unfortunately I can "see" Misha's acting most of the time and it can take me out of the moment. I did like his change from Lucifer!Cas to Cas though.

[zubeneschamali.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed this ep, too, and like you said, the fact that they can make us scared for the boys even after all these years is pretty impressive!

I toured a WWII submarine last summer and couldn't help thinking about fic ideas, and I was thrilled to see this sub looked exactly the same, green bench seats and sleeping on top of the torpedoes and all. And as much as I was expecting some tense scenes in the sub, because that's a key part of the genre, I wasn't expecting that Sam's scenes were going to be the one where I was crying, "No!" at the TV. Great job by both Jared and Misha in that scene (and yay Cas for coming out to save Sam).

I trust that in between the final two scenes, they drew Delphine's angel ward all over the bunker and Baby, right?

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I've toured a couple of subs and it makes me wonder how on earth anyone actually be in one of those things and stay sane. I honesty didn't think they'd do a Hunt For Red October in this ep (or even try to be true to the sub film genre), so I was surprised - and impressed.

The scenes between Misha and Jared were bloody intense. I was also crying out "no". I actually thought Lucifer was going to take Sam's soul - which I just didn't want at all! One thing I'm liking about Lucifer at the moment is not knowing which way he's going to turn.

I trust that in between the final two scenes, they drew Delphine's angel ward all over the bunker and Baby, right?

Yes yes! Most definitely. ;) Looks like the wards they have don't do much. Looks like anything can get in there. ;/

(and you and submarine fic ideas…me likey ;D).

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

On rewatch this morning, I'll already crying because they're all going to die. Robert Berens is a great writer.

I have nothing to say, because all of your bullet points nailed it.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Robert Berens is a great writer.

*nods*

I'm "glad" that they did all end up dying because it meant history didn't change - which, actually I thought they were going to do. Time travel at the best of times is problematic - but it was handled really well. And unless Dean wanted to change the course of history he knew he wasn't going to be able to do a thing - he was a mere witness. *sniff*

And clever that he left the reveal about what happened to the other ship until the end. Smart writing.

[jj1564.livejournal.com]

I agree with most of what you said, especially...

"Robert Berens = best writer on the show. Hands down.
John Badham = awesome director."

Berens is my favourite writer since Ben Edlund, he really seems to 'get' Sam and Dean right. It really did feel like watching a movie!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Definitely a favourite of mine. :)) Even when dealing with story lines I'm not that interested in, he manages to write a great episode. :)

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

*pops in quickly to agree and join the squee*

\o/ :D

*flies off again*

(Oh, and, Casifer coming down the stairs soaking wet and frustrated made me laugh.)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*pops* in quickly to *glomp* on you.

And yes! Frustrated Lucifer was fun. :)

[gidgetgal9.livejournal.com]

I'm commenting because I feel the love but all I can add is ditto - which is awesome! :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Cool!! <33

[catinplaid.livejournal.com]

I spent the episode thinking "Dean's not doing anything" and that was EXACTLY the point (SO AWESOME!). Remember how ineffectual Sam felt in S3 when he knew he couldn't save Dean? I think this is somewhat the same. Dean knows he's can't kill Amara and feels useless. Love that we were shown this, not told it.

Ooohhh! Yes, what a parallel. I hadn't seen it but it's so true!! Well done, Show!

Edith Piaf was just wonderful for that epi. (I can't tell you how many times I've heard this song today :D) The song fit the time period, and I felt it had gravitas. I loved something I read on twitter by Bardicvoice where she pointed out that Delphine and the crew showed heroism, and had no regrets, and Dean couldn't act heroically and thus must regret...

I like the Men of Letters stuff. Always have. I like that the boys are not only hunters, but legacies.

I love that we see the MoL being resistance fighters, fighting the nazis. I somehow feel proud that Sam and Dean are the legacies of those brave people :)

Oh, and the fact that the epi partly took place in (WWII) Europe (ok, it was the submarine mostly, but still!) somehow made me like it even more. Feels close to home :)

Misha's Lucifer is improving

I truly disliked the first time we saw him as Lucifer (cos really, his performance there was really shite IMO), but I also feel he's improving. I actually liked him this time. And I thought that his transitions from Lucifer to Cas were well made.

Sam's soul actually being touched by Lucifer. Non-con soul touching. Man, this show is fucked up.

That scene HURT so bad. Oh Sammy!!!

And also yes, yes to everything else you say. The writing and the direction and the boys being our boys again, Sam offering his soul to save Dean, Cas caring for Sam, the wonderful location for that ending scene, the boys' talk at the end... Basically, I could just point at all your bullet points and nod to everything! :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Howdy!

I saw a tweet by Berens saying that the song was Badham's choice. Such a great choice it was.

she pointed out that Delphine and the crew showed heroism, and had no regrets, and Dean couldn't act heroically and thus must regret…

Yes. Good observation. Being heroic is at the very heart of Dean's characterisation - and to have left the ship with the object and not being able to stop the sub from going down would have eaten into Dean. Though, my feeling is that Dean didn't initially go onto the sub to save it - just to get the object - but then he witnessed real heroism (soldiers facing the enemy in war and Delphine's heroism in protecting The Hand of God) and it truly affected him.

It was a good episode for a Dean study. :)

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

I kept watching this - spoiler free this season - thinking, hey, this is pretty good. This is pretty good, right? Then I got to the point where I was,,,,this is really good!

I really think we need to be grateful and amazed that the cast and crew can still do some damn fine storytelling, eleven years into this, 22 episodes a year. "Prestige" cable shows usually don't have to do more than 12 episodes a year, or far fewer, and most of them start to show their age, just a few years in. Sure there have been weak seasons and weak episodes, but even during those weaker seasons, there have been some remarkable episodes.

Jensen and Jared never seem bored (aka David Duchovny), and this season, they make me believe Sam and Dean just as much as I did during those first few epic seasons, when they were just our boys.

I don't know. I really didn't think I'd still be watching this year. But I can't give them up, and I probably won't give them up until Show hits the end of the road.

Has there been a renewal yet?

Thanks for your recaps/analysis - I always look forward to them!!!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I know! I was thinking exactly that - man, this is actually really good. I felt proud of my show. :)

Jensen and Jared never seem bored (aka David Duchovny), and this season,

They don't! And, in fact, they seem much happier all around this season. Sam/Jared is more comfortable in his skin and Jensen is stepping up his emotional game.

There's been no official announcement of S12, but everyone is saying it will happen. :)

And and yes re Duchovny. I have no idea what's happening in X-files this season. I've watched them all so far and I just end up shaking my head most of the time. But that's another story...

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

:( i only liked 1 scene, i thought Sam should have figure it out way early on within 15 minutes not the 30 mins the confrontation between them should of been earlier the episode picked up after that for me.i didnt care that Dean went back in time again,why cant Sam go? *Dean i wanna go, *Nope* :( i did like Delphine though. *backing away i didnt want to ruin your happiness*

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I actually don't have a lot of problem with Sam not figuring out about Lucifer. Sam spent all of season 5 resisting saying yes to Lucifer and he only said yes to cage Lucifer. For the entire season Cas kept telling him that Lucifer had to be stopped. Then, Sam held strong and refused to say yes to Lucifer so that Lucifer wouldn't break out. He had no reason to think Cas would do anything as lame brained as consenting to be Lucifer's vessel. It would be like working for a Bernie Sanders campaign and then finding out that the head of the campaign went and voted for Donald Trump! Cas has gone wacky before. He worked with Crowley to get to Purgatory. He's been controlled by Naomi. So Cas being off isn't OOC.

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

You're absolutely right, Dean is hit hard when he can't save people. And the realization at the end that everything played out exactly as it did BECAUSE Dean went back in time...that had to really hurt...

When Luci soul-fisted Sam an it cut to commercial I was scared like I haven't been in a long time because Luci had no reason to keep Sam alive any more!

I am just loving how the brothers' relationship seems to have matured significantly finally!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

And the realization at the end that everything played out exactly as it did BECAUSE Dean went back in time...that had to really hurt…

Yeah, time travel is damn tricky. It had to end up exactly the same or there would be a terrible paradox. I like that Dean didn't go back in time to save the sub initially. It was just to get the object. It was only when he was there and could witness true heroism that he became caught up in the bigger picture - and ultimate sacrifices. It's what I loved about the story telling. Berens had an end-game all the time. I feel many of the writers miss this.

I was so sacred that Luci was going to take Sam soul and we'd end up with soulless Sam again. So glad that didn't happen.

I am just loving how the brothers' relationship seems to have matured significantly finally!

It bloody terrifies me! I just don't want this new found maturity to evaporate before the end of the season. Keep them working together - without secrets, without recriminations. Please!!

[mica o&apos;shea (from livejournal.com)]

Yay to all bullet points!

I do hope they let us keep these boys until the end of the series. Maybe they got all the brother conflict out of their systems, or realized we don't like it.

Small addition: i also like the double meaning of the title, as Vessel could refer to the submarine as well as Luci's meatsuit. And i keep hearing it in my head pronounced a la Chekov as "wessel." :-)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh hi.

Maybe they got all the brother conflict out of their systems, or realized we don't like it.

Let's hope!

And yep to the title. Definitely the idea there. :)

[wings128.livejournal.com]

Love the bullet points! :D
Agree with everything you said here.
Thank you for sharing.♥

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yay bullet points! Helped me control my waffling I think! :))

xx

[melitta4ever.livejournal.com]

wow! I wish I had found you earlier. Your comments make me see the episode from a totally different pov. Thanks a lot for sharing.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi! Always nice to meet new people! :))

You make me curious what your pov was on the ep? Did it not work for you initially?

Thanks for dropping in (and for the friend). :)

[jessm78.livejournal.com]

I felt like I was watching a movie, not a TV show.

See, I felt that way, too.

Your thoughts pretty much echo mine on this episode. I went into it with my expectations low (mainly because I knew Dean would be the one going back in time, and Sam would be stuck with Casifer, bla bla blah), and I ended up liking it a lot more than I expected.

I was pretty distracted by Dean's lips in this one as well. Mmm. And I was relieved that Sam's hair wasn't quite the glued-down bob I was fearing it'd be after seeing the clips in that promo Jared tweeted a few weeks back. ;)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

See, for this one I went in with high expectations because I knew Berens wrote it. So I was worried I'd be disappointed. I'm so glad I wasn't. He always writes good myth arc eps - especially Cas stuff (stuff I usually don't care that much about). Aside from wanting Dean to be a little more concerned about Sam facing Lucifer again (but I've assumed they've had the discussion), it was all pretty perfect. :)

Sam's hair was border line at times - but nothing will ever be as and as s10 hair. Ugh. I'm liking it this season actually. It's shorter, but much more natural. :))

[zebra363.livejournal.com]

I find anything to do with submarines and people who know they are imminently going to die very affecting, so was really moved by the episode even leaving aside the Sam and Dean parts. I watched it while eating lunch, but had to stop eating and just stare sadly at the screen with my hand over my mouth when Delphine told Dean to kill her. Not an episode I'll rewatch a lot just for fun, but I thought it was excellent.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I agree. Might not be a "fun" one to rematch, but certainly go down as a solid episode. Though, I do want to watch it again because I was so tense during it I feel like I missed some stuff. ;)

[hugemind.livejournal.com]

YESYESYES. \o/

Love that we were shown this, not told it. I just hope - really HOPE that they don't make him wallow in stuff. Give me vulnerable, but don't give me self-pitying.

I liked that Dean smiled a bit after Sam told him what had happened with the destroyer. It gives me hope that maybe this is used to boost Dean's determination: the sub crew and Delphine fought with everything they had even though it was one little fight in a really big war, and maybe Dean will see that he's not useless just because he can't kill Amara.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh great point!

And I don't get either boys ever feeling useless in a fight. Even though Dean can't seem to kill Amara it doesn't mean he can't be in the fight. Which is what this episode was about also I think - he wanted to get the thing that could kill her so he could be part of that fight. I think that final scene was Dean confronting the loss of amazing people and finding out the Cas said yes to Lucifer. After everything they have been through to get him back in the cage, it must now weigh very heavily on Dean. I'm also hoping we get to see some of that weight from Sam also. It's so devastating for both characters. But, as Sam stated, they just keep fighting it. Go boys!

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Another I really enjoyed, I've even trained myself to stop reading opening credits too! Spoiler free is definitely the way to go for me, but saying that there is a tone about the show that's far more pleasing to me this season.

A big part is the brother relationship being more on an even keel, yes they still have their little secrets, but they're not being kept for long, things are talked about, they're living and grieving on a level of understanding that's been missing for me for some time.

I'm also far happier that they're thinking more about the destruction around them, I've given up on two series where the lead' actions caused so much destruction around them and as teflon heroes I became more and more annoyed with it, so more talk about hosts and casualties is making me sit up and take notice again.

The other thing that pleases me is to see them dipping more and more into their own histories, of both character and show and it's been a familiarity and still a surprising journey. I actually like they crammed Lucifer into Cas, there were some excellent scenes, I didn't expect the reveal so quickly, but am very happy to see it out of the way - still cringe a bit over some of the finer points of Collins' acting, but it's a hard line to get right for everybody and I can easily ignore that because the storyline actually intrigues me and interests me again.

I'm not 100% sold on Amara yet, but it's not something they've spent a huge amount of time with, so I'm hopeful for some movement on that front. I do like the way it ties back to god and death and antiquities and the men of letters, all that I find far more engaging that brother wars.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

but saying that there is a tone about the show that's far more pleasing to me this season.

The tone does seem to have changed. I think it definitely helps with the brothers being recognisable and them not at each other's throats.

so more talk about hosts and casualties is making me sit up and take notice again.

Exactly. For so long we've seen them almost disregard the victims. Vessels have been killed without a thought. I like that the "saving people" is back on the agenda for them.

see them dipping more and more into their own histories, of both character and show and it's been a familiarity and still a surprising journey.

Me too. I like the references back to what's happened before. And in fact, I've just posted a query about why people are saying having Lucifer back diminishes Sam's S5 storyline. Many are unhappy about that. I can't figure out why at the moment.

and death and antiquities and the men of letters, all that I find far more engaging that brother wars.

So much more!!! And it's more genuine. The brother wars were so contrived, because we know how they'll end the season. One whole season of distrust with a "I'm proud of us" so heal all the wounds. Argh.

I'm not sold on Amara completely yet either, but I want to be! So I'm hoping to see some interesting things come from that soon -ish. :))

[madebyme-x.livejournal.com]

Yes, to everything you said (and bullet points FTW!) I LOVED this episode, but I dig all the Men of Letters stuff too, so time travel and a submarine, and Nazi's, and kick ass Delphine, and a cool 'weapon' - hell yes! It felt refreshing to me to see a different set too, and I think the set/props department etc did such an amazing job with that claustrophobic submarine, and actually the whole cast was awesome too (Delphine was just so cool!)

I can't help but wonder if it's setting things up for the future, a mirror of what we're going to see; 'witness' and helpless Dean, sitting on the sidelines completely powerless and unable to help or save anyone...

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey!

I'm SO curious what they have in store for Dean. His connection to the darkness is intriguing and I'm hoping they go somewhere really interesting with that. Perhaps it will be like Sam in S5 where he will have to totally overcome the so called "bond" to defeat her. I do hope that Sam is involved there somewhere though. I'm sure he will be. :))

[chomaisky.livejournal.com]

Oh man MY SHOW IS BACK!

I haven't seen production of such a big scale for several seasons! When I saw the Nazi stuff in the beginning I thought this would be another episode where the Nazis and the allies were not taken serious, just clowns in the background. But all the shots of the submarine and the crew, and the torpedoes! And I felt sorry for the guy who kept asking Dean about what would happen in the future, and the fate of him and his folks. He was such a genuine character. And the rest of the crew was so brave. And I was really awed by Delphine when she was filled with light and about to explode. Her death was unlike the past ones caused by godly power. I really could see at that moment God was in her, mystic and terrifying.

This episode also reminds me of Jus in Bello.

Also there were some scenes that I didn't expect to go so far... like Lucifer touching Sam's soul. I thought Dean should appear and interrupt before Lucifer reached in, but he didn't, and poor Sammy :(((

And I love that no one was beating another bloody this time. I prefer emotional torture to physical torture.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yes yes and yes. Berens has such a huge respect for the other characters in the episode. Those men on the submarine were brave and sympathetic and you could actually feel the fear of death they had (the guy monitoring the sonar was spot on for that particularly).

Ah, Jus in Bello. Yes, that was an epic episode with wonderful other characters.

And I love that no one was beating another bloody this time.

Amen. Psychological torture (when done well) is so much more powerful. And believable. I never understand demons and angels etc. using fists to beat someone bloody. In this case Dean being helpless to prevent deaths of people he truly admires is a fascinating study.

More please! (and how I would love Berens to write the season finale)

[ellie-234.livejournal.com]

The show cannot undo the damage it has done this season where Sam,s sacrifice is concerned in Swan Song and putting Lucifer back.

However I do not tend jump up and down where the show is concerned but the production was very good in this episode.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

For me, show will never be able to undo many things (S9 is on the very top of my list). I posted something recently about S5 vS9 and I have mixed feelings about the damage it's done.

And yes - production (and for me, the writing) was very strong. It always helps.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed the ep! (Seriously, S11 has been...so much better in terms of characters and writing.)

Found myself nodding through all your bullet points, yep! The one thing I might've wished happen was Sam grocking onto who Luci was sooner. I thought for a second he was suspicious and was setting up a trap to nail Luci, but nah. That's okay, though. I saw plot-wise why it had to happen the way it did.

Loved the stuff in the sub, Misha's Luci was better, Sam killing the coffee warmed my heart. He is me.

Anywho, good stuff! I've made no secret that after Edlund (come back, baby!), I like Berens next best. :D

[ash48.livejournal.com]

(Seriously, S11 has been...so much better in terms of characters and writing.)

Oh my god! Hasn't it though?! Thank goodness.

The one thing I might've wished happen was Sam grocking onto who Luci was sooner.

I rewatched the ep the other day and really tuned into what was going on between Sam and Luci. Sam was so oblivious to Cas due to concern for Dean that I was pretty sold on him not tuning into what was going on. And the fact that he had absolutely no reason to suspect Lucifer was in Cas help I was happy to see that he figured out who it was without being told though. Misha was nailing those moments.

Please keep on track show!!

your review

[sarahk-1963.livejournal.com]

made me think about watching Supernatural again.

thanks :-)
Sarah

Re: your review

[ash48.livejournal.com]

hehe..well, it has been more satisfying this season. So far. :) Some great one offs that's for sure. :)