Something I'm curious about…(S11)

[ash48]

I was going to tweet this, but then remembered twitter is awful for conversations. Or even just making a potentially controversial statement.

So I'll put it in my fave place to post stuff. :)



I'm seeing a lot comments around the place that having Lucifer out of the cage disregards (whitewashes, demeans, trivialises etc) Sam's story line in S5. That the current storyline means that everything Sam did back then was for nothing.

I'm not clear why this is the sentiment? Nothing changes about what happened in the past. That will always be part of his storyline - and he'll always be the character that did that.

Lucifer being out now is merely a current storyline for the show. I totally accept that people are not liking it (for many various reasons), but what's happening now seems to be in conjunction to what happened back then - not totally aside from it (?).

I'm not asking whether it's a "good" storyline (I know there will be a heap of different reactions to that kind of question *g*) but simply asking why Sam's past storyline has diminished because of the current one?


(Note: This shouldn't need to be stated - because I think you guys know me well enough by now - but I'm not asking this to pick a fight. I am genuinely curious. Perhaps I am missing something that many others are seeing?).

Comments

[zara-zee.livejournal.com]

Oh...I hadn't come across those sentiments until just now...interesting...my gut reaction is that I don't personally feel as if Sam's S5 storyline is diminished by this current one.

I mean...life can be like that. You do something awesome, make a huge personal sacrifice, suffer greatly and then down the track, some idiot comes along and messes things up. That sucks. But it doesn't diminish what you did.

I'm sure Sam's gutted right now. I'm sure he's an absolute mess emotionally and psychologically. And I hope Show deals with that. But I don't feel as if he suffered for nothing. His actions back then were still awesome and noble and they kept the world safe for five years--until someone else blundered.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I mean...life can be like that. You do something awesome, make a huge personal sacrifice, suffer greatly and then down the track, some idiot comes along and messes things up. That sucks. But it doesn't diminish what you did.

This is exactly how I've been seeing it too.It sucks BIG TIME, but then when has anything been easy for these guys. In fact, it's in line with them throwing awful things at them. How to make Sam suffer the most? Bring back the thing that you thought you had defeated. It's terrifying really.

I'm sure he's an absolute mess emotionally and psychologically. And I hope Show deals with that.

Yeah, not feeling overly confident that they will. But they might. We've seen some Sam emotions this season so hopefully they'll continue that.

[zara-zee.livejournal.com]

...it's in line with them throwing awful things at them. How to make Sam suffer the most? Bring back the thing that you thought you had defeated. It's terrifying really.

My thoughts exactly!

And I'm not confident they'll deal properly with the emotional and psychological fallout from this either--I mean, when do they ever? But at least we can write or vid or art those missing scenes! The things Show doesn't say/do can be great fuel for fanworks. :D

[amypond45.livejournal.com]

His actions back then were awesome and noble and they kept the world safe for five years–until someone else blundered.

This reminds me that my first thought after Cas let Lucifer possess him was, "Oh no, now they'll blame Sam for letting Lucifer out – again!" Because if Sam had waited for Dean and hadn't gone in there alone in the first place...

Let's hope they don't do that, at least!

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I think they already are kind of putting the blame on Sam. They are replaying the taking of the MOC. With the MOC it was "Oh, poor Dean, Sam was mean to him so he had to go out and take the MOC." Now it's "Oh, poor Cas, he was feeling useless and unloved so felt he had to take on Lucifer,". While at the same time having flat out stated that Sam was an idiot to think that God would ever talk to HIM. I am worried about the fallout from this storyline, if only because blame has been apportioned so badly in the past.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'm not getting the sense that Sam is getting the blame (yet). I mean, yeah, he was misguided and Cas was only there because Sam was there - but Cas still made the decision to let lucifer out (though not sure if you mean fans or the Show. Fans who want to will ALWAYS find a reason to blame Sam - there is no getting past it).

And Dean took on the MoC before Sam was "mean" (aka stood up for himself) to Dean in the Purge. I understand that Dean took on the MoC because of the guilt he was feeling for tricking Sam to allow an angel in him. It's nothing the Show ever really showed but Jensen had mentioned that at a con once. I like that reading because it means Dean did realise the line he crossed when he made that decision. It also means that it's definitely not Sam's fault that Dean took on the MoC (unless he's to blame for taking on the trials…so maybe…).

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know Dean took the Mark before Sam had reacted much at all. They just kept focusing on poor, poor Dean and how bad he was feeling about Sam being "mean" while giving us bupkis about how Sam felt about being violated. I'm just afraid that pattern is about to repeat.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*nods* and it breaks my heart. :((

And PLEASE PLEASE don't repeat. I WILL CRY. I thought Show had turned a corner when it comes to Sam. *sobs*

[zara-zee.livejournal.com]

I don't think they're doing that...yet. Fingers crossed! :)