You learn something every day..

[ash48]

Slash--the homosexualization of a relationship between two characters who do not have a sexual relationship with one another in canon (taken from some interesting meta found here)

I would say that I should be ashamed not to know the actual meaning of the word, but really I came into fandom pretty naive in the ways of slash. Well, let's say completely innocent in fact. I mean, I know what I'm in for when I read slash, I just didn't know the "canon" part.

I remember my very first encounter with the notion that Sam and Dean could be written has having sex together as totally WTF! How dare anybody do that!! It didn't make a lot of sense to me and well, I did some reading and..., let's say I have been (deliciously) corrupted. *G*


Anyway... that's probably by the by, what is interesting is the linked meta. It's interesting to me that as much as I can read and enjoy slash I rarely view the actual show that way. I mean, sure there are moments that could be considered "slashy" and sometimes I think the producers chuck that in there to mess with us but for fans to begrudge either Sam or Dean a sexual relationship with someone (in the show) because it would mean they the couldn't have that with each other seems kinda strange. In the show they don't have that with each other. We can imagine they do (for those who wish to) but they are actually brothers who have a very special, loving, non-sexual relationship. (I know. Shock! *g*)

Anyway cagedwriter61 makes some interesting points and I suspect it will be stir up some controversy. Especially why slashers slash (well, that bit did for me). I suspect (as with anything fandom), viewpoints will vary differently. But that's good. \o/

(You can tell I'm on holiday because I'm blabbing a lot - and probably not making much sense either).

Right, of to do some coaching.

Comments

[virtualpersonal.livejournal.com]

I'm the same way, I don't see the show through slashy eyes. All references to the guys being thought of as gay - or Dean smacking Sam on ass - that's just IC joking, which also happens in real life. Then there's the added OOC joking by the writers giving a nod to fandom, but again, that doesn't make me watch the show in a way that makes me interpret the relationship between the guys as anything but brotherly (and non-sexual/non-romantic). The slashy stories I write, read, watch in vids... that is all putting the show characters in an AU situation/relationship.

The "why slash" question is an often asked and discussed question. I think its sort of like - why do you like blue over red, or why do you like alpha versus beta heroes in your books - there won't be one answer that fits all and some if it is a pure and simple "just because."

Still, it is always an interesting question!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yes. It's like 2 different experiences. The actual show and then everything that comes out of it. It's just awesome fun being able to find the possible "slash" in the show and twisting it around (like the famous wall slamming). But my brain really goes there when watching (other than to think.."oh, that would be good footage to use in a shipper vid *g*).

And yes. I didn't really want to weigh in on any major discussion because each to their own and that stuff can start to get quite personal and heated and I just can't do that. *runs* I did find it interesting reading though.

<33

[virtualpersonal.livejournal.com]

I never meta... but you sucked me in, and I did weigh in with a comment far far longer than I intended. I went ahead and reposted it to my LJ because anything that takes 3 comment boxes needs to be posted, right? LOL

Two different experiences, absolutely. And if I want slashy tv/vid - I go to your and other vids and woo hoo, there it is ::grins:: Best of both worlds.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh you did??? I must go and check it out. I have a feeling there will be a bit said on this.

I very rarely say anything and yet here I am... :D

[lilly-the-kid.livejournal.com]

"It's interesting to me that as much as I can read and enjoy slash I rarely view the actual show that way."
It's pretty much the same for me with most shows I watch.

Though I thought long before I ever learned that there is the term "slash" which stands for a certain concept that Jack and Daniel kinda belong together :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hmmm yeah. And I imagine that would be the case for a few people. I must say I never thought of Sam and Dean that way and even after reading all the slash I do, I still don't think of them like that in a canonical way. I have watched a lot of male partnership shows (they are my favourites) like Starksy and Hutch and The Professional (yep! I am that old..) and just love the bond they have and never even imagined them in any sexual context. It just never crossed my mind. Though, as I said, I am deliciously corrupt now and I tend to think like that more often.

Wow, that was long winded. Sorry about that.

[lilly-the-kid.livejournal.com]

I gotta say, I never saw Sam and Dean that way either and still don't within the show but when it comes to fanfic it's not like I have to take a big leap... With Starsky and Hutch, I can see it a little bit more in the show and in fanfic I can totally buy both slash and gen. With Sheppard and Mckay it's like I see them kinda in the middle between slash and friendship, right at that point where it never tips the scale one way or the other and I guess that what I like most about this, that there's nothing definite but everything's open for interpretation.

I don't know if this makes sense, but it's interesting to try to put this in writing :) Thanks!

[babycin.livejournal.com]

I remember my very first encounter with the notion that Sam and Dean could be written has having sex together as totally WTF! How dare anybody do that!! It didn't make a lot of sense to me and well, I did some reading and..., let's say I have been (deliciously) corrupted. *G*


SAME HEREEEEE! LMAO!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

HA! *twins*

I have the feeling we might not be the only ones... :D :D

[redteekal.livejournal.com]

I went and read that meta - thanks for the link it was interesting (yay for holidays, sadly soon to be over). And it was interesting before I even read your comment I immediately picked up on the "BETTER" equating with "not good enough" point on why slasher's slash. That line of the meta just rang very untrue for me. I guess that there are some who would think like this but I put them in the same category as the ones who are completely anti-slash in fanon as well.

Pretty sure most slashing is not writers trying to 'elevate' what they see as a relationship missing something but more because the porn is fun to imagine.

The Lisa hate (which I've only heard about and not read) is a very myopic view in my opinion and is again nothing surprising from the 'fundamentalist sector of spn fandom' as I like to refer to them. I honestly don't think the writers are ever going to let any relationship usurp the brother one so I have no problems acknowledging that as a character Lisa has a helluva lot going for her and that I am quite easily a fan of hers. I worry for her future (as anyone would who has even an inkling of female characters and the track record of Spn) but in the meantime I'll just enjoy the interactions she has, especially with Dean and hope for the best outcome - Lisa and Ben being regulars in the Boys lives as they get on with being Sam&Dean. So long as they hurry up and start fixing things.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Pretty sure most slashing is not writers trying to 'elevate' what they see as a relationship missing something but more because the porn is fun to imagine.

Exactly. I had trouble with that. I mean... wow... Sam and Dean sure do have heaps going wrong in their relationship at the moment but having sex sure ain't gonna fix that! Though I understand that it gives writers a field day, but as I said to her, it's just context not the true belief that everything would be better if they had sex.

fundamentalist sector of spn fandom'

HA!! Oh yes. And luckily I've only heard about the haters not actually come across any. In fact I hear nothing but love for her.

So long as they hurry up and start fixing things.

AMEN SISTER!!

And only one day left!! Arghhh... I wants more....

[ruby-jelly.livejournal.com]

"I remember my very first encounter with the notion that Sam and Dean could be written has having sex together as totally WTF! How dare anybody do that!! It didn't make a lot of sense to me and well, I did some reading and..., let's say I have been (deliciously) corrupted. *G*"

*blush* yessum!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hee! Glad I'm not the only one... :)

(and just between you and me... it's made for a nice improvement in...well... some *koff* other areas in my life. But I said that very quietly.

xx

[ruby-jelly.livejournal.com]

*blush* YESSUM! ;) ...chuckles quietly

[frogspace.livejournal.com]

I would say that I should be ashamed not to know the actual meaning of the word, but really I came into fandom pretty naive in the ways of slash.

Well, I wouldn't be too upset about it because it's just one definition of slash and not the most commonly accepted one (also, the wording is very strange. o_O "Homosexualization" of a relationship? Really?). For example, there is a lot of Queer as Folk slash and Willow/Tara on BtVS is femslash. For a better definition, history of the term, history of the genre, etc. see Slash (http://fanlore.org/wiki/Slash).

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi there,

Thank you very much. I once warned for slash for brian/Justin and was told if they exist as lovers in canon then it isn't slash. I took that on board and assumed that was true so when I saw that definition above it made some sense to me.

Though your link was interesting too and it seems there's some variations on what could be considered slash. But thank you so much. I certainly know more now. :)

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

It's interesting to me that as much as I can read and enjoy slash I rarely view the actual show that way.

I seem to have a kind of wall in my brain that keeps the slash out of the show for me while I do enjoy reading slash fanfic now and then. It's like a different world.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yes. I'm exactly the same. As I said to virtualperson above, it's like 2 different experiences. And I LOVE both of them.

<33

[growyourwings.livejournal.com]

I will have to go read that meta after work as I'm running late this morning. But I just had to make a quick comment regarding...

"I remember my very first encounter with the notion that Sam and Dean could be written has having sex together as totally WTF! How dare anybody do that!! It didn't make a lot of sense to me and well, I did some reading and..., let's say I have been (deliciously) corrupted. *G*"

I had a similar experience. 'Cept it wasn't with SPN. By the time SPN came along I was already corrupted...or I should say I found SPN via slash. My WTF experience was with the "original" slash-inspiring show Star Trek. Only it was 40 years after the slash phenomenon started. I accidently came across slash Star Trek fanfiction online and I went O.o Then when I found it existed for Kirk & Spock--*that* was my WTF moment. Like "how dare!" anyone mess with the sacred Kirk & Spock relationship??!!! Um....yeah, then I was corrupted.

But I also have these partitions in my head. There's canon (for any shows) and then there's fanfiction. Canon fuels the imagination, but then the imagination can go ANYWHERE. And that's what is so marvelous about fanfiction. No Rules.

Um. Wow, this was a longer comment than I intended. *runs off to work*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*runs off to work*

Hee! I am always getting caught up on here just before I have to dash to work..

Canon fuels the imagination, but then the imagination can go ANYWHERE. And that's what is so marvelous about fanfiction. No Rules.

Word! I only discovered that there was even a thing called fanfiction when I started seriously fanning Supernatural. I had no idea the extent in which is exists. Wish I had discovered it ages ago...:)

It took a little while to get into the slash (and there are so many partnerships that I can't even go there with - like S&H (even though they are soooo slash worthy) ), but once I took that leap with Sam and Dean...well, let's say I've never turned back. I attribute that to the amazing writers we have.

xx

[geckoholic]

Thanks for linking the meta. There are some points I'm totally on board with, and some I'm all WTF about but it's certainly food for thought. Almost made me meta in response. ;)

As I also ship canon slash pairings, I'd beg to differ when it comes to that definition, though.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah - it was indeed food for thought.

The definition was one I hadn't heard and I assume it was correct - though having done some reading it seems to be open to interpretation a bit.

xx