6.10 reaction and... stuff..

[ash48]

Icon = I'M TRYING!!




I think I might be letting out a bit of frustration here so please be warned for some snarky remarks ahead. Though, I'm trying (desperately) to find the positives. I am.

I wanted to like that. I really, really did. I actually didn't mind watching because I kept thinking we were heading for something important, some interesting, exciting reveals. But we weren't.

We found out that Crowley can't get Sam's soul back. Well. That was the reveal of the century.
And that Gramps is doing it all for Mary. Another mind blowing reveal.

Is it because fandom picks up on these things early on that they become "so what" when the reveal actually comes? Hmmmm... maybe.

I just. What was that all about? Initially (on the surface) it seemed to be full of stuff. Major story arc episode, alphas, Meg, Cas, Crowley, Samuel, .... but scratch that surface and there's seems to be a big pile of nothing underneath.


Just some points...

1. Crowley died. Whoopdido. We know that they can (AND CONSTANTLY DO) bring back characters at a drop of a hat so we know that won't be the end of him. So yeah. I felt nothing for his death because dying is just not relevant anymore in the SPN 'verse. I did like that Cas just went ahead a burnt his damn bones - which should have been done in the first place. (if they do bring him back I will be very curious to see how they do it. Destroying a meat suit means nothing after all). Same meat suit, different occupant mayve? Hmmm... (I just can't see them letting Mark go is all. Doesn't do much for me, but I know many love him.)

2. Sam cares for Dean! HE BIT INTO HIS OWN ARM AND BLED HIMSELF TO SAVE HIS BROTHER. Whereas this would normally have me friggin' squeeing to the high heavens (because there's nothing quite like the lengths these boys will go to to save each other <3333), I just... Where did that come from? I have absolutely no issue that he did that (may have even been one of my favourite moments) but why has Sam been presented up until now as not caring (watching his brother turn into a vamp and picking up some random chick when he's been abducted) to his sheer desperation to run to his aid. Why couldn't we have seen a glimpse of this care earlier? Why the extremes?

CONSISTENCY IS ALL I ASK!! Soulless Sam has potential to be soooo interesting. But they don't seem to quite know what to do with it. One moment he's being mysterious, menacing and uncaring, the next needing Dean's moral compass, kinda clueless and cute and caring a whole lot.

I suppose I just wish I could trust the Sam they are giving us. I don't and I kinda hate that. When we do get 2 seconds of Sam's POV we have him threatening to kill Cas if he doesn't help them. I get that Sam is efficient and a hardassed hunter who wants to get the job done without the trouble of emotion. But yuk. Why does he have to be such a dick as well?! (I'm sorry Sam. I love you with all my heart. I do. And you're damn sexy when you're in badass mode. But what's going on with you sweetie? Also... can you please stop lurking in the shadows. It's not helping the trust thing...)

3. Sam's soul. It's missing. It's gone. It's possibly being tortured. Is possibly being turned demonic. Might even be sunning itself on a beach in Barbados. But um... no one seems to care too much about that. It seems to be all about whether Sam wants it back or not. And Dean being pissed that he doesn't seem to want it back. And Cas being concerned what it will actually do to Sam when he gets it back. JUST GET THE DAMN THING BACK ALREADY, PLEASE!!

4. *koff* ADAM. Other brother. Oh right. He was a plot devise. My mistake thinking they would even mention his name in 10 episodes.

5. What is it about the rape references lately? The initial "that's not rapey" comment in Twihard was interesting because it was referencing Twilight and was then used later in the show. But this episode they became jokes and I have no idea why they did this. It started with Crowley mentioning a speculum and kinda went downhill from there. SPN likes to be dark and I enjoy that about it - but this level of darkness had me squirming in my seat. Which brings me to...

6. Meg. (ADORING Rachael Miner btw. She brought some nice deep and kick-assery to the role). I won't dwell on the image of her torture scene ... (whole new level of "dark" for me). I was disappointed that they returned to an already familiar scene. Maybe they were drawing parallels between her and Ruby? idk. But the image of what that knife was doing just doesn't bear thinking about.

Meg is an interesting study though. I did ponder whether they might one day play with the idea that a demon could be returned to "good" somehow. I thought it might have been possible with Ruby (but that was a clever ruse), so the thought struck that if Sam's soul is returned to him and it's demonic there would be a way to "save" it once it's back in Sam. (Yeah - ignore me. I'm grasping at possible reasons why Meg has been brought back, other than just wanting to have the character appear again. I'd love to see Meg play some major role in the story arc this season).

7. Grandpa. I think this, overall, was my biggest problem and probably why the episode left me feeling flat and my thoughts a complete mess.

He makes no sense. His character arc makes no sense. He sold out his own LIVING grandsons for a daughter that (as far as I can tell) is long time dead. So I have to wonder. (And this is where I'm completely hopeless at working this all out..) Mary died in a house fire. Samuel died a while before her (my understanding is he died when she brought John back in "In the Beginning"). He's presumably been in heaven with his wife and daughter up until now. He (for some completely unknown reason as yet) is returned to earth and helps Crowley because he wants Mary back. Why? Because it's his daughter? Just doesn't wash with me.

Maybe I could understand this if Mary had been killed before his eyes or something like that. but... idk. I'm just really struggling with his motivation here. I thought if her soul was being threatened that might be a motivation enough. "Do this or well send it to hell" or something. But to want her back from the dead? I don't know. Maybe he hasn't watched Pet Cemetery. Or the last couple of seasons of Supernatural.

Though Dean's heart felt plea not to go down that route was important and maybe what it was all about. Jensen sold that very well. I think that's why it pissed me off so much that he betrayed them. And so brutally. I suspect it was used as an audience shock tactic. It was cheap I thought. And then to attack Dean with him saying Dean betrayed Mary by looking out for Sam? Low. I hope we aren't supposed to feel any sympathy for Gramps. If so, it's gonna take a lot of convincing for me to change my mind about him now.

I suppose there's still a lot of juicy questions remaining and maybe next week well get an answer or two. All those Alphas are dead.. so, what now? I wonder what their plans will be for that story line. I'm going to assume they're not going to ditch it now (oh boy.. level of pissed off will probably be off the scale if they do that..)

With Crowley dead who's the big bad now? Gramps? Meg? New "threat" we don't know about yet..*please*.. What was the point of Crowley anyway? (yeah - I know. Mark Shepherd. But can that be enough?).

It's looking more like Sam is just soulless!Sam - so *sigh* they've just been playing him all mysterious and deceitful because... um... it gave us something to talk about?! Thanks for that.

And how much more does poor Dean have to endure? Boy my heart ached for him in that episode. (see - I was involved, just deflated by the time it ended...*g*)

(I did have a laugh out loud moment with Cas watching porn. Even though that scene was completely superfluous it did make me chuckle. Though don't get me started on the Meg kiss. If they want Cas to explore his sexuality it would be nice if they gave it some proper thought. Not just comic relief).


Also - I think the writers might sit down and say.. "right, how can we bring back *insert dead character here*? and work out a story around that rather than work a story in which having a dead character return would enhance the plot line...

Oh show. I don't know. I've really been enjoying S6. I think it was a brave and interesting decision to return Sam without a soul. So thanks for that. But please, PLEASE tell me you have a decent plan for all this. I feel so much of the way I look back on this season will be determined by the whole pay off. And I'm scared (again!) for what the future holds.

(Though I have enjoyed reading the positive takes on this episode. Makes me feel better about the whole thing. And that's what makes fandom so interesting - as longs as we can happily agree to disagree. What one person sees as a negative the other can see as a positive. It's all cool. :)



Damn, I blabbed a lot. But getting that off my chest has helped. :)

Comments

[maenad.livejournal.com]

CONSISTENCY IS ALL I ASK!! Soulless Sam has potential to be soooo interesting. But they don't seem to quite know what to do with it. One moment he's being mysterious, menacing and uncaring, the next needing Dean's moral compass, kinda clueless and cute and caring a whole lot.

I could be completely off, obviously, but my current take on Sam comes from something the alpha vampire said. I paraphrase, but along the lines of: 'the thing about souls - if you have a soul - is that they're predictable'.

Sam used to feel things, therefore he used to want things, and therefore you could reasonably predict what he would do. Now he doesn't, so you can't. He can only react to current data, and since that changes all the time, what Sam thinks is a good idea changes constantly too. He can only be consistently inconsistent.

If you take 'Dean in peril' out of the equation - because that's an emotional thread - the three scenarios were completely different. In the case of the vampires, Sam was in control of the situation (or he thought he was - Dean running off threw him a bit): he let what he wanted to happen happen, then took steps to rectify the situation. In the case of the fairies, it was completely out of his control - he couldn't get there in time to rescue Dean, and all he could do was search for leads as they popped up. Besides, at the time they thought it was aliens - and a constant feature of alien stories is that the victims come back. Even the Trickster, when playing at aliens, returned that victim instead of killing him. Dean was actually in more danger than either of them knew. In this instance the situation was out of his control - but there were clear, if brutal, steps he could take to change that. He can gnaw through his on wrist if he knows it's going to achieve something, but can't throw himself into a desperate effort to achieve something that probably won't work anyway. Besides, he had to get himself out of that cell somehow.

It would also explain why he's so on-again-off-again about his soul: episode eight offered a pretty strong argument as to why souls were useful, episode nine demonstrated when they could be problematic, and the current theory clinches it for him for the moment.

If this is the case, I have some issues with it because it makes Sam more of a plot device than a character and they're starting to run up to the point where, if Sam himself doesn't appear soon, they won't have time to deal with him as a person. 'Sam might do anything!' does make each episode more adventurous ... but it also makes it harder to relate to him. But on the other hand, it does help me knit together the various flavours of Sam into one person. :)

Sam's soul. It's missing. It's gone. It's possibly being tortured. Is possibly being turned demonic. Might even be sunning itself on a beach in Barbados. But um... no one seems to care too much about that.

Yes, Castiel's whole pronouncement on that was strange. Okay - good idea to warn Dean that things might not be okay again if they fetch Sam out. He's staked a lot on finding Sam's soul, and he needs to be prepared for the worst. But to then suggest they should just leave it alone? That ... makes no sense. Suffering is still suffering, even if you don't have to look at it personally. If he was arguing that it was world-endingly dangerous, okay. But this?

I thought if her soul was being threatened that might be a motivation enough. "Do this or well send it to hell" or something. But to want her back from the dead? I don't know. Maybe he hasn't watched Pet Cemetery. Or the last couple of seasons of Supernatural.

I don't know either. Samuel? Unless Mary is currently sharing a room with Cthulhu, Sam's problem is worse. If she is, say so and if she isn't, shut up and help your grandchildren.

And - er, yes, apparently I do talk a lot. :)

[lightily.livejournal.com]

Amen! What you said.

[callme-k.livejournal.com]

What is it about the rape references lately?

*shrugs* This, and the overload on sexual overtones. In small doses it can be entertaining but I felt like this ep was hitting me over the head with it:/

Sad to say, but 10 eps in and I'm over trying to understand Sam. To some degree I feel that they've painted themselves into a corner with how he does/doesn't behave and it's become contradictory.

As for Samuel....*bleh* How does his love for Mary not extend to her sons? /o\

I'm used to the show making my heart hurt, but S6 makes my head hurt.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey there! Thanks for sharing this. :)

apparently I do talk a lot.

Oh man... not as much as my waffle! :)

I like the explanation on Sam. I figured that yeah, they can pretty much do anything with him because they can cry "he has no soul so he can change from week to week". And I can go with that - it would be nice if maybe it was referred to. Or noticed. And maybe it has. I know Dean has noted quite a lot how wrong Sam is and it's probably not just to do his Robo-ness.

But YES YES to this:

if Sam himself doesn't appear soon, they won't have time to deal with him as a person

I have big concerns about this. Mostly because I not only want to see Sam again I desperately want them to deal with everything he's been through so far without a soul AND deal with his soul's return. It's a lot to cover. I suspect maybe they plan to take it into Season 7 - which, my then, I may well be over the whole thing. I really look forward to seeing how they deal with it.. *bites nails*

Castiel's whole pronouncement on that was strange.

Wasn't it? In fact I kinda found the whole Sam and Cas thing strange. IDK. Maybe Cas is worried about a very strong "evil" Sam returning. One that would be bad for his current war. I just don't know. I'm glad that Dean did speak up about wanting it back no matter what. At least they could deal with it then. If Sam's soul is suffering so badly, surely they would want to rescue it.

Unless Mary is currently sharing a room with Cthulhu, Sam's problem is worse. If she is, say so and if she isn't, shut up and help your grandchildren.

Yeah. I might have bought it if it was all about protecting Mary (and even his wife as well) but just bringing her back just didn't seem like enough. But I didn't get the sense that Samuel was holding anything back. Maybe as an audience member I'm just a little bit jaded with dead people coming back. (and I have no doubt they will want to bring young!Mary back at some stage as well....)

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. :D

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'm used to the show making my heart hurt, but S6 makes my head hurt.

No truer word! I like when it makes me thinky, but when it makes me thinky just to cover holes I get frustrated. And I feel like it's doing that a bit at the moment. Well, at least for that episode.

And I'm thinking the sexual overtones might be fan service to some degree. And as you say, that can be ok in small does. Fun even... but, wow... I thought there was some pretty dark stuff in this one.

I hope next week leaves us on a better note... <3

[maenad.livejournal.com]

Thank you! It's much more fun when there are people to talk to. :)

I have big concerns about this. Mostly because I not only want to see Sam again I desperately want them to deal with everything he's been through so far without a soul AND deal with his soul's return.

*nods!* They haven't annoyed me yet - they've decided to make getting Sam back a quest, so they have to do justice to that, and they have to set up what lacking a soul means and that's taken some time - but there's a delicate balance to this and I worry whether they'll hit it.

Wasn't it? In fact I kinda found the whole Sam and Cas thing strange. IDK. Maybe Cas is worried about a very strong "evil" Sam returning. One that would be bad for his current war. I just don't know. I'm glad that Dean did speak up about wanting it back no matter what. At least they could deal with it then. If Sam's soul is suffering so badly, surely they would want to rescue it.

See - I kept waiting for Castiel to make that argument. It's a good argument and one Sam more-or-less made himself back in Swan Song. If you want to get Dean to stop searching, that's about the best argument you could make - because destroying the value of Sam's sacrifice without actually getting anything that was recognisably Sam would be unthinkable. But 'Sam will suffer terribly'? Um ... he already is?

On the other hand, it was kind of good for Dean because he did get fairly adamant about it. It was an odd sort of Castiel-playing-Sam moment, because Sam was generally the big-picture man. Dean's been trying to be both himself and Sam lately, and I think it's making his head spin. Having someone throw a great big problem that might be impossible to solve if it's actually happening which it might not be we don't know yet at him did seem to help him adjust his focus back down to what he needs to do next, and that's generally where he's at his best. So I suppose it had a positive, even if it was weird.

Maybe as an audience member I'm just a little bit jaded with dead people coming back.

See, I can understand it as a basis for a deal at the beginning. Being able to put things back as they were could seem seductive. It's the part where he carries on about choosing Mary or choosing Sam as though it were about the value of the person rather than the weight of the problem where he loses me.

[dotfic.livejournal.com]

Am mostly with you on the problems, although it's nothing that hasn't bothered me already in this season (except for the Meg torture scene, and that was nothing new for SPN). Any given week, I'm going to fall to the "meh" side of the force, or the squee -- this ep happened to hit my buttons well and I thought it had great energy, but I agree with a lot of your points. (Castiel's porn watching scene I felt had more character relevance than some seem to think it did, but I can totally understanding feeling it was a little unnecessary or even silly.)

Two things--
2. I didn't read that as Sam's great caring for Dean at all. It was self-preservation, and while he did rescue Dean, that was strategic, not personal. Soulless Sam is ruthless and wouldn't stand for being caged.

3. Sorry, I've seen this criticism a lot of places and I really don't get it, it confuses me. What I see is Dean and Castiel consumed with worry for Sam and for his soul. Dean wants Sam's soul back the sooner the better. Him checking in on whether Sam wants it or not I think is a natural response, a way of Dean trying to reassure himself. Right now all he's got is soulless Sam while they try to get the soul back. And Dean needs soulless Sam's help to get it back. Some fans have criticized Castiel for advocating leaving Sam's soul where it is, and missing that Castiel's point was that Sam's torment won't end just because his soul is back in his body, and reuniting his soul with his body could destroy him. Cas wasn't saying don't do it, but preparing Dean for all the contingencies. He'd be doing them no favors by not telling them all he knows about this. And I love, LOVE, that Dean said, whatever the problem is, we'll find a way to fix it. He hasn't stopped fighting for Sam for one second. ♥

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I didn't read that as Sam's great caring for Dean at all. It was self-preservation,

Yeah. I can see that. Him not wanting to be caged reads so much better for me than any great caring for Dean. I was so confused by that whole thing. It seemed he was driven by hearing Dean being taken away. But maybe it was more that it was time to make a more and get out of there. (And in all honesty I suppose I knew we weren't suddenly seeing a caring Sam .... I think I was just annoyed by the connection Show seemed to me making there..)

And yeah - that makes sense re point 3. Good. I can live with that. :) I got it from Dean's point of view (I really got his need to have Sam's soul back) but Cas was really confusing me this time round. But it makes sense that he could just be preparing Dean.

Personally, I don't think his soul is in the cage. Though there's nothing (at the moment) to indicate that it's any where else. I think I'm struggling with the notion of over 100 years...)

Thanks honey.

I've started to feel a lot better about this ep on a few levels. I think a re-watch is in order. Now that I know what happens I might be able to see it in a clearer (more positive) light.
<33

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

Really interesting points... I agree completely with being confused by Samuel. My best guess is that he never saw Mary in Heaven - they weren't exactly soulmates in life. Maybe he wasn't in Heaven in the first place. But I agree with everything you said. I don't think it makes a lot of sense. However, I would like them to bring back Mary so she can kick her dad's butt for betraying her living sons.

I'm not having as much of a problem with souless Sam, and I don't blame him for lurking in shadows for this one. It's absolutely in his self-interest to be paying attention to what they're planning for him, and it makes sense they'd be upset. In terms of him saving Dean, well I think that's a combination of being hard-wired to save him and it was also the expedient thing to do.

When he hooked up with hippy chick, he personally wasn't in danger, and like he told Dean, it was dark (I love that part!) and he had temporarily exhausted his options. Even in that episode though, when Dean was in trouble, Sam immediately went looking for him.

Here's what I love about Season 6, as opposed to Season 5 and even Season 4. I love that the focus is so tight on the brothers. I like that the themes aren't so much bigger than life, and that the relationship between the two is pretty much the only thing that matters. I miss my Sammy like crazy, but I do like this Sam. He's smart and capable and interesting. I love this Dean because last season's Dean was just so full of despair. This Dean believes he can stuff a mutilated thing down Sam's gullet and get his brother back. Complications??? He'll deal with them.

And you know...? I believe him.

Sorry for all the cup-half-full. I don't think I can help it! ;)

[redteekal.livejournal.com]

I'm totally WTF about Gramps by now. Dean's probably regretting the decision to stop Sam from shooting the guy now, I was very satisfied with the way Dean was going all verbal Full Metal Jacket on his ass when Samuel was talking to him through the door. But yeah - his characterisation seems to be flimsy to say the least!

So yeah - will not even blink when he goes.

I think the whole Sam looking like he cared for Dean thing with the blood letting for a Devil's Trap thing (and does Sam have levitating capabilities we don't know about now? Or were those ceilings especially low?) was supposed to do 2 things - One: Throw the Samfans a bone - look everyone he still cares about Dean! (I read that as Sam is not stupid he knows his Maths - Two Winchesters have a better chance than one at trapping a Crowley, besides Dean could always be a good decoy whilst Sam gets job done - sounds totally soulless right? Yeah because he is!). Two: Give Sam an even bigger badassery factor with the whole grinning with bared blood soaked teeth. I tell ya that shot there? Sam looked positively gleefully evil. And I still LIKED it.

And I am totally in the Sam camp with the "You know what? I don't want my soul back!" I wouldn't wanna risk it either. I definitely would not be seeing the upside. I haven't read anything - but I am wondering if Purgatory is gonna be the thing that changes Sam's mind back on that one. As in he finds out what Purgatory is like and decides that perhaps with his line of work having such a high mortality rate that maybe he doesn't wanna spend the rest of eternity in Purgatory. I'm not seeing how Dean could convince him here...unless...hmmmmm. Maybe Sam will get a glimpse of a Dean at the end of his tour in Hell - when it had burned away his humanity and he was torturing souls left right and centre and was WITHOUT his soul there. He may be without soul but surely Sam's big melon brain will see the difference and see how bad it is.

I must admit I am having fun amusing myself thinking of ways they're gonna fix this. And I am rather enjoying Alpha!Sam but it would be nice if the brotherly bond and Dean as the all nurturing big brother could make an appearance at some point. Just to let Sam know - soulless or not he will always need his big brother.

Stick with it girl - you know the ride is gonna be interesting at least!

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

What I see is Dean and Castiel consumed with worry for Sam and for his soul. Dean wants Sam's soul back the sooner the better. Him checking in on whether Sam wants it or not I think is a natural response, a way of Dean trying to reassure himself. Right now all he's got is soulless Sam while they try to get the soul back. And Dean needs soulless Sam's help to get it back. Some fans have criticized Castiel for advocating leaving Sam's soul where it is, and missing that Castiel's point was that Sam's torment won't end just because his soul is back in his body, and reuniting his soul with his body could destroy him. Cas wasn't saying don't do it, but preparing Dean for all the contingencies. He'd be doing them no favors by not telling them all he knows about this. And I love, LOVE, that Dean said, whatever the problem is, we'll find a way to fix it. He hasn't stopped fighting for Sam for one second. ♥

Quoting the whole thing because I just posted the same response, but you said it so much better! Yes to all of this!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It's much more fun when there are people to talk to

*nods* It's one of my favourite things to do. Especially when my thoughts are all over the place. There's only been 3 episodes so far this season that's left me feeling like that.

they've decided to make getting Sam back a quest

Yeah, and that's been interesting and I'm pleased it hasn't been a quick fix. Having this happen to Sam somehow adds weight to the enormity of his sacrifice. He's paid a huge price.That whole angle fascinates me and is one reason I have been really loving S6. But yeah - fine line. When will it be too long? For me, as long as the writing stays strong, they have a clear purpose and goal I can wait it out. just don't want too many eps like this one..;)

Dean's been trying to be both himself and Sam lately, and I think it's making his head spin.

His isn't the only head spinning! But it's a great point. Dean is dealing with an enormous of stuff at the moment. But at the heart of it is Sam - at least that remain consistent for Dean. <33

xx

[dotfic.livejournal.com]

It's true that Castiel certainly seems to think putting Sam's soul back in Sam isn't a wonderful idea, but the leap from that to "Castiel thinks Sam's soul should stay in hell" seems too much of a leap, y'know? LOL, also Castiel is a glass half empty kind of guy. "Catastrophic." Cas, tell us how you really feel! He's always been blunt, and he's always been one to make gloomy pronouncements. It's kind of adorable. But his worry for Sam is the most evident thing to me. And with Dean, yeah, to me there's no question at all on that point.

[dotfic.livejournal.com]

Thank you! It's good to hear it's not just me, hee.

[cece-away.livejournal.com]

Soulless Sam isn't evil so there's no reason why he wouldn't help Dean. In fact his biggest drive is being a badass hunter, which implies saving people. The problem is that without a soul he can't factor in the moral thing to do while hunting, like killing innocents to save other innocents or letting Dean get turned, etc.

With that logic, I don't see why he wouldn't run to help Dean since the ultimate goal was to get info from Crowley to get his soul, which Sam thinks he needs Dean's help with. For me, it's consistent behavior of Replicator Sam.

[faithburke.livejournal.com]

He makes no sense. His character arc makes no sense. He sold out his own LIVING grandsons for a daughter that (as far as I can tell) is long time dead. So I have to wonder. (And this is where I'm completely hopeless at working this all out..) Mary died in a house fire. Samuel died a while before her (my understanding is he died when she brought John back in "In the Beginning"). He's presumably been in heaven with his wife and daughter up until now. He (for some completely unknown reason as yet) is returned to earth and helps Crowley because he wants Mary back. Why? Because it's his daughter? Just doesn't wash with me.

See, my take on this is that Mary and John aren't in heaven. Back in 'Dark Side of the Moon' Ash mentioned that he couldn't find either one of them. I'm guessing their souls are either in Hell or Purgatory, and that's the stick that Crowley was dangling over his head.

Sam's soul. It's missing. It's gone. It's possibly being tortured. Is possibly being turned demonic. Might even be sunning itself on a beach in Barbados. But um... no one seems to care too much about that. It seems to be all about whether Sam wants it back or not. And Dean being pissed that he doesn't seem to want it back. And Cas being concerned what it will actually do to Sam when he gets it back. JUST GET THE DAMN THING BACK ALREADY, PLEASE!!

This! OK, don't put the soul back in, but for pity's sake Cas, as far as you know it's being tortured. Getting it out of there should be a priority, even if all you do is send it to heaven.

[yourlibrarian]

Maybe he hasn't watched Pet Cemetery. Or the last couple of seasons of Supernatural.

LOL, well Dean did try to tell him (and apparently Sam caught all the Campbells up on it during the rewatch year).

All those Alphas are dead.. so, what now? I wonder what their plans will be for that story line. I'm going to assume they're not going to ditch it now (oh boy.. level of pissed off will probably be off the scale if they do that..)

Yes, that was something I didn't even get to in my post because short of using the "alpha" concept (and why is the Alpha always a male? That doesn't even make any sense) to rewrite the rules on how you take down given monsters, it seems to have gone nowhere. Supposedly the Alpha vamp was in that group and so all the weird Dean hallucination was supposed to mean ...?

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Castiel is a glass half empty kind of guy.

Yes. He certainly says things as he sees them. No sugar coating. He is also truthful (as far as we know) and therefore reliable. I wonder if may they are setting stuff up here for the future also - paving the way for another sort of Sam in the future. His soul back... but what state will it be in?

Looking foward to finding out... :D :D

*smish*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

However, I would like them to bring back Mary so she can kick her dad's butt for betraying her living sons.

Oh yes, yes PLEASE! Now that would be awesome. I have been bemoaning the constant return of dead characters but to have Mary return in this context would indeed be awesome. Mary fighting along side her boys may just melt me into a pile of goo!


Here's what I love about Season 6, as opposed to Season 5 and even Season 4. I love that the focus is so tight on the brothers. I like that the themes aren't so much bigger than life, and that the relationship between the two is pretty much the only thing that matters. I miss my Sammy like crazy, but I do like this Sam. He's smart and capable and interesting. I love this Dean because last season's Dean was just so full of despair. This Dean believes he can stuff a mutilated thing down Sam's gullet and get his brother back. Complications??? He'll deal with them.

Have I told you how much I love you lately!! Why do I suddenly feel a whole lot better about it all?! Thank you!

(I'm still cross about the gaping holes, but when you put it like that I can feel better about soulless!Sam).

I'll take cup-half-full any day sweetie. I always prefer to be positive with the episodes. Though sometimes.. they just leave me a little flat - like this one did.

*heffa hug*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

and does Sam have levitating capabilities we don't know about now?

LOL! I so wanted to mention that. How did he reach up there and.. wow, that would have taken a lot of blood. I thought Sam may have been a least a little bit wobbly. But he is super Robo!Sam after all.. :)

And yeah - I get that Sam had is own interested in mind when going after Dean. I totally loved that scene though.. they really are playing dark!Sam very close now...


I must admit I am having fun amusing myself thinking of ways they're gonna fix this.

Yeah! That sure has been the fun thing this season.. so much interesting speculation. Sometimes WAY more interesting than what they actually come up with. :D

And I'm here for the whole ride! I felt pretty flat and disappointed after that episode I have to say, but after chatting here I feel a whole lot better. I often consider not posting a reaction when it's rather ranty - but I'm always glad I do because other people have such intesting things to say. :D :D

xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah - I'm seeing it now. I suppose I'm still reeling from when he watched his brother turn (that's an image I will NEVER forget..), and even then I know he only did that to get closer to the alpha vamp. But yeah - he needed Dean alive for a good reason, not just because he's his brother.

I did love that scene and Sam was a total badass in this ep. I suppose I just wish I could connect to him like I used to, but I realise that's all part of him story arc this season. And I'm cool with that because I've found it very interesting.

Thanks hun. :D

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing their souls are either in Hell or Purgatory, and that's the stick that Crowley was dangling over his head.

Yeah - it would make more sense if this was the case. And maybe that's exactly how we are to read it. It would have been great if they had been clear on that. I have no issue with Gramps deciding to go the way he did - but maybe it would have been good if they made him sympathetic. As an audience member it might have been really interesting to be made to really understand his POV and that way we could have been torn. Instead he was truly awful and I was left feeling absolutely nothing for him.

Getting it out of there should be a priority, even if all you do is send it to heaven.

Absolutely! I think I would just like them to say that outright. It's not just getting his soul back, but rescuing it as well. It needs to be found just so they can start dealing with its damage (or not as the case may be..)

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Supposedly the Alpha vamp was in that group and so all the weird Dean hallucination was supposed to mean ...?

Yes, yes.. It just kinda makes everything in the past fairly meaningless. Right down to Sam helping them find alphas in the first place. He was hunting for these things before he met up with Dean. They have been such an important part of the story so far, they have to be taking it further...

And I'd still like a better reason for why Sam left it so long to tell/find Dean. I figure that's all history now. Story wise I suppose they needed Dean to be living a somewhat suburban life style and in order for that to happen it needed to be a long time.

*sigh* I suppose there will be things we will just have to live with (bit like the wasted amulet)...

I just hope they have some decent outcomes ahead. I try to remain positive but there's only so much I can take..

<3

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

For some reason there is only one thing I really don't understand: Why does Gramp wants to bring back Mary and not his wife? She is the woman he spent his life with. His daughter would go her own way anyway.

Any explanation?

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

See, thanks to you I can use my icons on yournals now. *happy grin* (Would only give me the default one before) I have to make some more though. I feel like a person that opens the cupboard and says: "I have nothing to wear." LOL.

♥♥♥

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

Dang, grabbed my default one there..lol...so here one with Sam. Sorry for spamming. Just enjoying my "icon freedom" :D

edited: OH, I can edit comments now. COOL! :D

[ash48.livejournal.com]

This is extremely confusing as well. They didn't have a happy marriage maybe?? Though that wasn't the impression we got when we saw them. *shrugs*

To be honest I think they've chosen Mary because of her connection to the boys.

There's either more to the story or it's shoddy writing...

I fear the latter because there are quite a few holes beginning to form. They might fill them in as time goes on..

We'll just have to wait and see!!

<3

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hee! New default icons! \o/

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh - editing comments also? I thought everyone could do that...

Cool!! I look forward to seeing new icons.. :D

[geckoholic]

I'm not sure what to make of Sam-to-the-rescue either. I mean, show convinced me that he really actually DOES NOT CARE, so why that, and now?

(Yeah - ignore me. I'm grasping at possible reasons why Meg has been brought back, other than just wanting to have the character appear again. I'd love to see Meg play some major role in the story arc this season).
Oh hon, please be right. I fell for the actress when she appeared on another, and I'd love to see her again on SPN.

Oh, Sampa. What?? WHY??? That's not making any sense, at all. It did prompt some rather nice speeches from Dean, though.

[girlyghoul70.livejournal.com]

If you take 'Dean in peril' out of the equation - because that's an emotional thread - the three scenarios were completely different.

Extremely good point!

[girlyghoul70.livejournal.com]

and does Sam have levitating capabilities we don't know about now? Or were those ceilings especially low?)

Nah, he's just THAT tall ;-)!

[girlyghoul70.livejournal.com]

Back in 'Dark Side of the Moon' Ash mentioned that he couldn't find either one of them. I'm guessing their souls are either in Hell or Purgatory, and that's the stick that Crowley was dangling over his head.

OOH! Good catch! I'm betting she is in Purgatory. (John too probably)

But Gramps DID want her brought back to life, not just out of Purgatory. He just wants her back with him because he can't live without her, which does not ring right to me either. If it was actually mentioned that he's trying to get her Soul into a better place that would have made so much more sense as character motivation.

[girlyghoul70.livejournal.com]

You brought out many point that had been sitting wrong with me as well. I still had loads of fun watching the episode but afterwards was like "Well the Myth Arc has pretty much imploded and is useless now..."

Still while scrolling through the comments here there were many more point made and much more to ponder.

Grandpa's motives are still off and wonky to me cece_away has a current theory that I'm loving, but I don't know if I trust the Show to be THAT cool or clever.

Sam caring for Dean, or seeming to, this past episode didn't bother me as much as his ignoring Dean's abduction to bang a smelly hippie chick did last episode. That bugged only because even without his soul and without caring for Dean, it still seemed to his advantage to continue trying to track down his brother and take a rain check on the hippie chick (She was gonna be around for a while... and the prospect of Sam!Nookie surely would have kept her around)

So, I don't think the writers have been as consistent as the should with this storyline and it can be unsettling. Still, the Show is entertaining and the boys are PURTY! There's much enjoyment to be had even with all the heartache and back break from toting the amount of spackle is takes to patch up the plot holes.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I mean, show convinced me that he really actually DOES NOT CARE, so why that, and now

Above people argued that it was because HE needed to escape and he also needs Dean to help him. Or something. I get that Sam needed to be free of the prison (maybe reminded him of the cage?), but I'm not sure that he really needs Dean's help with anything. He is very capable. I like to think there's a little tie there somewhere to Dean... *shrugs* not really sure...

And yes.. she's doing well has Meg. I would really like to see her character do something / be something interesting.

And I can't event with Sampa... But Dean was awesome. He will always regret his decision to sell his soul (though I'm sure he'd do it again for Sam) and wants others to learn by it. Shame Sampa didn't listen.

(Oh and now my vid has been posted I can get stuck into this meta. Hoping to be organised by the end of the week. I'm going away on the 21st December, so hoping to have it all posted before then...*g*)
xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

but I don't know if I trust the Show to be THAT cool or clever.

I think that's what worries me sometimes. Fans usually have much better ideas and then what show gives us can be a bit of a let down. I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that there's not more to Sam than just him missing his soul (which, really is enough but the way they have been playing him always makes me suspicious).

And YES YES! Show is entertaining and the boys are GORGEOUS indeed!! And sparkles are very good for patching up plot holes. What a lovely image. :)

[geckoholic]

Yeah, that also sounds possible, but . . . It just annoys me that I can't make sense of robo!Sam, I guess. :/

Me too!

Yeah, he certainly learned from it all. Oh, Dean . . . *sighs*

Heh! We have ourselfs a deadline, then? *gg*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

We have ourselfs a deadline, then? *gg*

Hee. Well certainly my side of things....I definitely want to have it written up before I go. I'll have my computer with me in Sydney but I doubt I'll get much done.

Oh and I've opened the post for your eyes only (which I thought I had already done... doh!) It's VERY draft like, just getting down some thoughts - put I've started making notes of pics I imagine being there. I hope to get it finished tomorrow - I should have a good chunk of time.

:D

[geckoholic]

Heh, allright. And yeah, that's fine with me, because after Christmas, I won't get much done for the rest of the month. So, I aim to either already post or at least mostly prepare everything I want to post from then on till the rest of the month.

*off to read. :D