6.10 reaction and... stuff..
Dec. 5th, 2010 05:08 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ash48Icon = I'M TRYING!!
I think I might be letting out a bit of frustration here so please be warned for some snarky remarks ahead. Though, I'm trying (desperately) to find the positives. I am.
I wanted to like that. I really, really did. I actually didn't mind watching because I kept thinking we were heading for something important, some interesting, exciting reveals. But we weren't.
We found out that Crowley can't get Sam's soul back. Well. That was the reveal of the century.
And that Gramps is doing it all for Mary. Another mind blowing reveal.
Is it because fandom picks up on these things early on that they become "so what" when the reveal actually comes? Hmmmm... maybe.
I just. What was that all about? Initially (on the surface) it seemed to be full of stuff. Major story arc episode, alphas, Meg, Cas, Crowley, Samuel, .... but scratch that surface and there's seems to be a big pile of nothing underneath.
Just some points...
1. Crowley died. Whoopdido. We know that they can (AND CONSTANTLY DO) bring back characters at a drop of a hat so we know that won't be the end of him. So yeah. I felt nothing for his death because dying is just not relevant anymore in the SPN 'verse. I did like that Cas just went ahead a burnt his damn bones - which should have been done in the first place. (if they do bring him back I will be very curious to see how they do it. Destroying a meat suit means nothing after all). Same meat suit, different occupant mayve? Hmmm... (I just can't see them letting Mark go is all. Doesn't do much for me, but I know many love him.)
2. Sam cares for Dean! HE BIT INTO HIS OWN ARM AND BLED HIMSELF TO SAVE HIS BROTHER. Whereas this would normally have me friggin' squeeing to the high heavens (because there's nothing quite like the lengths these boys will go to to save each other <3333), I just... Where did that come from? I have absolutely no issue that he did that (may have even been one of my favourite moments) but why has Sam been presented up until now as not caring (watching his brother turn into a vamp and picking up some random chick when he's been abducted) to his sheer desperation to run to his aid. Why couldn't we have seen a glimpse of this care earlier? Why the extremes?
CONSISTENCY IS ALL I ASK!! Soulless Sam has potential to be soooo interesting. But they don't seem to quite know what to do with it. One moment he's being mysterious, menacing and uncaring, the next needing Dean's moral compass, kinda clueless and cute and caring a whole lot.
I suppose I just wish I could trust the Sam they are giving us. I don't and I kinda hate that. When we do get 2 seconds of Sam's POV we have him threatening to kill Cas if he doesn't help them. I get that Sam is efficient and a hardassed hunter who wants to get the job done without the trouble of emotion. But yuk. Why does he have to be such a dick as well?! (I'm sorry Sam. I love you with all my heart. I do. And you're damn sexy when you're in badass mode. But what's going on with you sweetie? Also... can you please stop lurking in the shadows. It's not helping the trust thing...)
3. Sam's soul. It's missing. It's gone. It's possibly being tortured. Is possibly being turned demonic. Might even be sunning itself on a beach in Barbados. But um... no one seems to care too much about that. It seems to be all about whether Sam wants it back or not. And Dean being pissed that he doesn't seem to want it back. And Cas being concerned what it will actually do to Sam when he gets it back. JUST GET THE DAMN THING BACK ALREADY, PLEASE!!
4. *koff* ADAM. Other brother. Oh right. He was a plot devise. My mistake thinking they would even mention his name in 10 episodes.
5. What is it about the rape references lately? The initial "that's not rapey" comment in Twihard was interesting because it was referencing Twilight and was then used later in the show. But this episode they became jokes and I have no idea why they did this. It started with Crowley mentioning a speculum and kinda went downhill from there. SPN likes to be dark and I enjoy that about it - but this level of darkness had me squirming in my seat. Which brings me to...
6. Meg. (ADORING Rachael Miner btw. She brought some nice deep and kick-assery to the role). I won't dwell on the image of her torture scene ... (whole new level of "dark" for me). I was disappointed that they returned to an already familiar scene. Maybe they were drawing parallels between her and Ruby? idk. But the image of what that knife was doing just doesn't bear thinking about.
Meg is an interesting study though. I did ponder whether they might one day play with the idea that a demon could be returned to "good" somehow. I thought it might have been possible with Ruby (but that was a clever ruse), so the thought struck that if Sam's soul is returned to him and it's demonic there would be a way to "save" it once it's back in Sam. (Yeah - ignore me. I'm grasping at possible reasons why Meg has been brought back, other than just wanting to have the character appear again. I'd love to see Meg play some major role in the story arc this season).
7. Grandpa. I think this, overall, was my biggest problem and probably why the episode left me feeling flat and my thoughts a complete mess.
He makes no sense. His character arc makes no sense. He sold out his own LIVING grandsons for a daughter that (as far as I can tell) is long time dead. So I have to wonder. (And this is where I'm completely hopeless at working this all out..) Mary died in a house fire. Samuel died a while before her (my understanding is he died when she brought John back in "In the Beginning"). He's presumably been in heaven with his wife and daughter up until now. He (for some completely unknown reason as yet) is returned to earth and helps Crowley because he wants Mary back. Why? Because it's his daughter? Just doesn't wash with me.
Maybe I could understand this if Mary had been killed before his eyes or something like that. but... idk. I'm just really struggling with his motivation here. I thought if her soul was being threatened that might be a motivation enough. "Do this or well send it to hell" or something. But to want her back from the dead? I don't know. Maybe he hasn't watched Pet Cemetery. Or the last couple of seasons of Supernatural.
Though Dean's heart felt plea not to go down that route was important and maybe what it was all about. Jensen sold that very well. I think that's why it pissed me off so much that he betrayed them. And so brutally. I suspect it was used as an audience shock tactic. It was cheap I thought. And then to attack Dean with him saying Dean betrayed Mary by looking out for Sam? Low. I hope we aren't supposed to feel any sympathy for Gramps. If so, it's gonna take a lot of convincing for me to change my mind about him now.
I suppose there's still a lot of juicy questions remaining and maybe next week well get an answer or two. All those Alphas are dead.. so, what now? I wonder what their plans will be for that story line. I'm going to assume they're not going to ditch it now (oh boy.. level of pissed off will probably be off the scale if they do that..)
With Crowley dead who's the big bad now? Gramps? Meg? New "threat" we don't know about yet..*please*.. What was the point of Crowley anyway? (yeah - I know. Mark Shepherd. But can that be enough?).
It's looking more like Sam is just soulless!Sam - so *sigh* they've just been playing him all mysterious and deceitful because... um... it gave us something to talk about?! Thanks for that.
And how much more does poor Dean have to endure? Boy my heart ached for him in that episode. (see - I was involved, just deflated by the time it ended...*g*)
(I did have a laugh out loud moment with Cas watching porn. Even though that scene was completely superfluous it did make me chuckle. Though don't get me started on the Meg kiss. If they want Cas to explore his sexuality it would be nice if they gave it some proper thought. Not just comic relief).
Also - I think the writers might sit down and say.. "right, how can we bring back *insert dead character here*? and work out a story around that rather than work a story in which having a dead character return would enhance the plot line...
Oh show. I don't know. I've really been enjoying S6. I think it was a brave and interesting decision to return Sam without a soul. So thanks for that. But please, PLEASE tell me you have a decent plan for all this. I feel so much of the way I look back on this season will be determined by the whole pay off. And I'm scared (again!) for what the future holds.
(Though I have enjoyed reading the positive takes on this episode. Makes me feel better about the whole thing. And that's what makes fandom so interesting - as longs as we can happily agree to disagree. What one person sees as a negative the other can see as a positive. It's all cool. :)
Damn, I blabbed a lot. But getting that off my chest has helped. :)
I think I might be letting out a bit of frustration here so please be warned for some snarky remarks ahead. Though, I'm trying (desperately) to find the positives. I am.
I wanted to like that. I really, really did. I actually didn't mind watching because I kept thinking we were heading for something important, some interesting, exciting reveals. But we weren't.
We found out that Crowley can't get Sam's soul back. Well. That was the reveal of the century.
And that Gramps is doing it all for Mary. Another mind blowing reveal.
Is it because fandom picks up on these things early on that they become "so what" when the reveal actually comes? Hmmmm... maybe.
I just. What was that all about? Initially (on the surface) it seemed to be full of stuff. Major story arc episode, alphas, Meg, Cas, Crowley, Samuel, .... but scratch that surface and there's seems to be a big pile of nothing underneath.
Just some points...
1. Crowley died. Whoopdido. We know that they can (AND CONSTANTLY DO) bring back characters at a drop of a hat so we know that won't be the end of him. So yeah. I felt nothing for his death because dying is just not relevant anymore in the SPN 'verse. I did like that Cas just went ahead a burnt his damn bones - which should have been done in the first place. (if they do bring him back I will be very curious to see how they do it. Destroying a meat suit means nothing after all). Same meat suit, different occupant mayve? Hmmm... (I just can't see them letting Mark go is all. Doesn't do much for me, but I know many love him.)
2. Sam cares for Dean! HE BIT INTO HIS OWN ARM AND BLED HIMSELF TO SAVE HIS BROTHER. Whereas this would normally have me friggin' squeeing to the high heavens (because there's nothing quite like the lengths these boys will go to to save each other <3333), I just... Where did that come from? I have absolutely no issue that he did that (may have even been one of my favourite moments) but why has Sam been presented up until now as not caring (watching his brother turn into a vamp and picking up some random chick when he's been abducted) to his sheer desperation to run to his aid. Why couldn't we have seen a glimpse of this care earlier? Why the extremes?
CONSISTENCY IS ALL I ASK!! Soulless Sam has potential to be soooo interesting. But they don't seem to quite know what to do with it. One moment he's being mysterious, menacing and uncaring, the next needing Dean's moral compass, kinda clueless and cute and caring a whole lot.
I suppose I just wish I could trust the Sam they are giving us. I don't and I kinda hate that. When we do get 2 seconds of Sam's POV we have him threatening to kill Cas if he doesn't help them. I get that Sam is efficient and a hardassed hunter who wants to get the job done without the trouble of emotion. But yuk. Why does he have to be such a dick as well?! (I'm sorry Sam. I love you with all my heart. I do. And you're damn sexy when you're in badass mode. But what's going on with you sweetie? Also... can you please stop lurking in the shadows. It's not helping the trust thing...)
3. Sam's soul. It's missing. It's gone. It's possibly being tortured. Is possibly being turned demonic. Might even be sunning itself on a beach in Barbados. But um... no one seems to care too much about that. It seems to be all about whether Sam wants it back or not. And Dean being pissed that he doesn't seem to want it back. And Cas being concerned what it will actually do to Sam when he gets it back. JUST GET THE DAMN THING BACK ALREADY, PLEASE!!
4. *koff* ADAM. Other brother. Oh right. He was a plot devise. My mistake thinking they would even mention his name in 10 episodes.
5. What is it about the rape references lately? The initial "that's not rapey" comment in Twihard was interesting because it was referencing Twilight and was then used later in the show. But this episode they became jokes and I have no idea why they did this. It started with Crowley mentioning a speculum and kinda went downhill from there. SPN likes to be dark and I enjoy that about it - but this level of darkness had me squirming in my seat. Which brings me to...
6. Meg. (ADORING Rachael Miner btw. She brought some nice deep and kick-assery to the role). I won't dwell on the image of her torture scene ... (whole new level of "dark" for me). I was disappointed that they returned to an already familiar scene. Maybe they were drawing parallels between her and Ruby? idk. But the image of what that knife was doing just doesn't bear thinking about.
Meg is an interesting study though. I did ponder whether they might one day play with the idea that a demon could be returned to "good" somehow. I thought it might have been possible with Ruby (but that was a clever ruse), so the thought struck that if Sam's soul is returned to him and it's demonic there would be a way to "save" it once it's back in Sam. (Yeah - ignore me. I'm grasping at possible reasons why Meg has been brought back, other than just wanting to have the character appear again. I'd love to see Meg play some major role in the story arc this season).
7. Grandpa. I think this, overall, was my biggest problem and probably why the episode left me feeling flat and my thoughts a complete mess.
He makes no sense. His character arc makes no sense. He sold out his own LIVING grandsons for a daughter that (as far as I can tell) is long time dead. So I have to wonder. (And this is where I'm completely hopeless at working this all out..) Mary died in a house fire. Samuel died a while before her (my understanding is he died when she brought John back in "In the Beginning"). He's presumably been in heaven with his wife and daughter up until now. He (for some completely unknown reason as yet) is returned to earth and helps Crowley because he wants Mary back. Why? Because it's his daughter? Just doesn't wash with me.
Maybe I could understand this if Mary had been killed before his eyes or something like that. but... idk. I'm just really struggling with his motivation here. I thought if her soul was being threatened that might be a motivation enough. "Do this or well send it to hell" or something. But to want her back from the dead? I don't know. Maybe he hasn't watched Pet Cemetery. Or the last couple of seasons of Supernatural.
Though Dean's heart felt plea not to go down that route was important and maybe what it was all about. Jensen sold that very well. I think that's why it pissed me off so much that he betrayed them. And so brutally. I suspect it was used as an audience shock tactic. It was cheap I thought. And then to attack Dean with him saying Dean betrayed Mary by looking out for Sam? Low. I hope we aren't supposed to feel any sympathy for Gramps. If so, it's gonna take a lot of convincing for me to change my mind about him now.
I suppose there's still a lot of juicy questions remaining and maybe next week well get an answer or two. All those Alphas are dead.. so, what now? I wonder what their plans will be for that story line. I'm going to assume they're not going to ditch it now (oh boy.. level of pissed off will probably be off the scale if they do that..)
With Crowley dead who's the big bad now? Gramps? Meg? New "threat" we don't know about yet..*please*.. What was the point of Crowley anyway? (yeah - I know. Mark Shepherd. But can that be enough?).
It's looking more like Sam is just soulless!Sam - so *sigh* they've just been playing him all mysterious and deceitful because... um... it gave us something to talk about?! Thanks for that.
And how much more does poor Dean have to endure? Boy my heart ached for him in that episode. (see - I was involved, just deflated by the time it ended...*g*)
(I did have a laugh out loud moment with Cas watching porn. Even though that scene was completely superfluous it did make me chuckle. Though don't get me started on the Meg kiss. If they want Cas to explore his sexuality it would be nice if they gave it some proper thought. Not just comic relief).
Also - I think the writers might sit down and say.. "right, how can we bring back *insert dead character here*? and work out a story around that rather than work a story in which having a dead character return would enhance the plot line...
Oh show. I don't know. I've really been enjoying S6. I think it was a brave and interesting decision to return Sam without a soul. So thanks for that. But please, PLEASE tell me you have a decent plan for all this. I feel so much of the way I look back on this season will be determined by the whole pay off. And I'm scared (again!) for what the future holds.
(Though I have enjoyed reading the positive takes on this episode. Makes me feel better about the whole thing. And that's what makes fandom so interesting - as longs as we can happily agree to disagree. What one person sees as a negative the other can see as a positive. It's all cool. :)
Damn, I blabbed a lot. But getting that off my chest has helped. :)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-12-05 11:34 am (UTC)apparently I do talk a lot.
Oh man... not as much as my waffle! :)
I like the explanation on Sam. I figured that yeah, they can pretty much do anything with him because they can cry "he has no soul so he can change from week to week". And I can go with that - it would be nice if maybe it was referred to. Or noticed. And maybe it has. I know Dean has noted quite a lot how wrong Sam is and it's probably not just to do his Robo-ness.
But YES YES to this:
if Sam himself doesn't appear soon, they won't have time to deal with him as a person
I have big concerns about this. Mostly because I not only want to see Sam again I desperately want them to deal with everything he's been through so far without a soul AND deal with his soul's return. It's a lot to cover. I suspect maybe they plan to take it into Season 7 - which, my then, I may well be over the whole thing. I really look forward to seeing how they deal with it.. *bites nails*
Castiel's whole pronouncement on that was strange.
Wasn't it? In fact I kinda found the whole Sam and Cas thing strange. IDK. Maybe Cas is worried about a very strong "evil" Sam returning. One that would be bad for his current war. I just don't know. I'm glad that Dean did speak up about wanting it back no matter what. At least they could deal with it then. If Sam's soul is suffering so badly, surely they would want to rescue it.
Unless Mary is currently sharing a room with Cthulhu, Sam's problem is worse. If she is, say so and if she isn't, shut up and help your grandchildren.
Yeah. I might have bought it if it was all about protecting Mary (and even his wife as well) but just bringing her back just didn't seem like enough. But I didn't get the sense that Samuel was holding anything back. Maybe as an audience member I'm just a little bit jaded with dead people coming back. (and I have no doubt they will want to bring young!Mary back at some stage as well....)
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. :D
no subject
Date: 2010-12-05 12:42 pm (UTC)I have big concerns about this. Mostly because I not only want to see Sam again I desperately want them to deal with everything he's been through so far without a soul AND deal with his soul's return.
*nods!* They haven't annoyed me yet - they've decided to make getting Sam back a quest, so they have to do justice to that, and they have to set up what lacking a soul means and that's taken some time - but there's a delicate balance to this and I worry whether they'll hit it.
Wasn't it? In fact I kinda found the whole Sam and Cas thing strange. IDK. Maybe Cas is worried about a very strong "evil" Sam returning. One that would be bad for his current war. I just don't know. I'm glad that Dean did speak up about wanting it back no matter what. At least they could deal with it then. If Sam's soul is suffering so badly, surely they would want to rescue it.
See - I kept waiting for Castiel to make that argument. It's a good argument and one Sam more-or-less made himself back in Swan Song. If you want to get Dean to stop searching, that's about the best argument you could make - because destroying the value of Sam's sacrifice without actually getting anything that was recognisably Sam would be unthinkable. But 'Sam will suffer terribly'? Um ... he already is?
On the other hand, it was kind of good for Dean because he did get fairly adamant about it. It was an odd sort of Castiel-playing-Sam moment, because Sam was generally the big-picture man. Dean's been trying to be both himself and Sam lately, and I think it's making his head spin. Having someone throw a great big problem that might be impossible to solve if it's actually happening which it might not be we don't know yet at him did seem to help him adjust his focus back down to what he needs to do next, and that's generally where he's at his best. So I suppose it had a positive, even if it was weird.
Maybe as an audience member I'm just a little bit jaded with dead people coming back.
See, I can understand it as a basis for a deal at the beginning. Being able to put things back as they were could seem seductive. It's the part where he carries on about choosing Mary or choosing Sam as though it were about the value of the person rather than the weight of the problem where he loses me.
no subject
Date: 2010-12-05 03:00 pm (UTC)*nods* It's one of my favourite things to do. Especially when my thoughts are all over the place. There's only been 3 episodes so far this season that's left me feeling like that.
they've decided to make getting Sam back a quest
Yeah, and that's been interesting and I'm pleased it hasn't been a quick fix. Having this happen to Sam somehow adds weight to the enormity of his sacrifice. He's paid a huge price.That whole angle fascinates me and is one reason I have been really loving S6. But yeah - fine line. When will it be too long? For me, as long as the writing stays strong, they have a clear purpose and goal I can wait it out. just don't want too many eps like this one..;)
Dean's been trying to be both himself and Sam lately, and I think it's making his head spin.
His isn't the only head spinning! But it's a great point. Dean is dealing with an enormous of stuff at the moment. But at the heart of it is Sam - at least that remain consistent for Dean. <33
xx