8.07 episode reaction (NOT a review...)

[ash48]

Warning:

Please do not enter this post if you want squee. Or if you want a rational, non passionate (objective-free) review of that episode. The passion doesn’t come from a good place I’m afraid.

I feel particularly bad after making new friends...*glings* I pride myself on being positive but I can’t be positive if I don’t feel it. Ack! I'm so sorry... (run!)

I was in two minds about even doing a reaction post because I believe if you can’t say something nice it’s better not to say anything at all. But I use my journal to post about my show so I figured I would. Plus, I seriously need to get some grievences off my chest. They are NOT character issues. It's not character bashing - it's just me being unhappy and therefore passionate (aka ranty).

So… turn back now (REALLY!) if you’re jumping about and want someone to share your squee with. However, if you can shed some light on what I might have missed then I'm up for it. :))




(I do have some positives which are at the end of the post…*g*)


Firstly. That was the most boring episode in the history of the show for me. I have never (never I tell you!) felt like either turning the show off or fast forwarding it more than I did tonight. In fact, I did fast forward it once.:((( (sorry show...I tried not to but I just DID NOT CARE!).

I have never been less interested in any of the storylines than that one. I have been trying to figure out why. Seriously. I really want to grasp what it was.

I think I will have to finally come clean with myself (and anyone who decided to read on) that I have completely lost interest and patience with the demons and angels story line. During the “previouslies” I actually groaned. Groaned I tells ya! I just didn't want an episode that revisited all that stuff...(so I poured myself a glass of wine to steal myself…)

It didn’t help. Try as I might (and fuck I tried many times) I just did not get into it. It isn't good that this is the major story arc this season /o\. I seriously have to get on board with this if I am going to make it through to the end. (Muttering "get on with it" every few minutes does not bode well...*sad face*)

Secondly. Oh man...my secondly is filled with so much stuff that I can’t even.

So let’s do this... (I need to get this off my chest….).

I hated (to the point of almost crying) that there was no mention, no NOTHING about last week’s episode. It was as if that incredibly important, powerful moment between them didn’t even happen. I kept trying to find things – some indication that it had mattered, or that it even occurred. But no. The most I could find was that Sam kept asking Dean if he was all right and hovering around him. Now, normally I would be all squeeful for this brotherly concern but it was difficult to be when I kept waiting for some acknowledgement of what had happened.

Was Sam’s constant worrying some show of his guilt maybe? Was he pandering to Dean’s every twitch because he knows how hurt he really is? I think not. It was just, from Show's POV...let's get on with the next episode. Who cares about what happened before this. I get that Dean could just move on because he couldn’t remember what he said…but Sam? I needed something.

It obviously wasn’t that important *sniff*

The torture was really hard going for me. That scene with Crowley and the angel guy was so disturbing. But also boring. I think torture works if it’s either on someone we care about because we have an established relationship with the character, or if it's poignant. That poor guy. (did he die in the end? I couldn’t tell…)

Normally Kevin and Mom provide some levity and interest, but all they did was shout (why did they shout and not just talk to each other?) and “act” and it was totally unbelievable to me. I just don’t get why they couldn’t have given us that wonderfully strong, clever and maternal mom we first met in Tiger Mom. Instead we had a caricature. It was all so very try hard. I don’t blame the actors. In fact I totally commend Osric for his performance. I could see him trying to bring depth to his character. He has made me like Kevin, which is no mean feat considering I really didn’t like the idea of him when he was first introduced. (His torture I really felt. And kind of hated because I really felt it! Arghhh... Poor Kevin!)

The holy water spraying was there as a joke (and I did love the water gun at toward the end) but it was totally stupid. Especially if it meant re-laying the salt line every time. Why couldn't she be smart?

And speaking of smart. We knew the witch was going to be bad yeah? So all that stuff was a complete and utter waste of time. And all those derogatory comments toward her? And then she dies? I could have done without that. (Actually, I tuned out of all her scenes… a complete waste of time).

Humans don’t matter. But worse than that....It doesn’t even MATTER that humans don’t matter. Dean killed that demon in the trunk.. WHY?! What’s wrong with a good old fashioned exorcism? Sam wiped out…what…3 humans with that bomb? Bring back blood drinking Sam just so he can save humans. Please! (no not really but I NEED them to care about human meatsuits. They just don't care about the human collateral anymore. The thing that makes Sam and Dean..SAM AND DEAN is that they care about humans. No longer it seems. D:)

I don’t mind Crowley in small (and I mean SMALL!) doses. I always think badies are best mysterious. We just see too much of him. I liked some of the one liners – they were amusing, but what he was actually doing was truly nasty (and ultimately boring).

And I get it. Demons are nasty. Crowley is nasty. But do we need to see traumatized children and women being exploded into bits? I just… can we please be done with him. *feels disloyal* (though I have never really liked him so I don't feel turncoat).

EXTRA WARNING! (if you are still reading) Here's my Cas and Dean stuff...so PLEASE move along if you have come this far because I need to say this but I know some of you will be cross with me. *sheepish*

I think because I don’t give a rats arse about Cas and Dean’s relationship I find anything that’s all about their relationship completely and utterly boring. (I've said boring far too many times yeah?) That’s not to say I find Cas or Dean boring at all. I just find Show’s attempts to make that “something” really friggin’ try hard. I know that’s not fair and I get that Dean/Cas fans will be squeeing to high heaven and I am happy for them, but for me I just don’t feel it. Dean and Benny’s friendship makes so much more sense to me. It’s gritty and honest and they seemed well matched in terms of their personalities. But I just can’t see why Dean and Cas are friends. Why? I really need someone to explain that to me. Dean seems to suddenly have this..omg I’m not leaving you thing going on when Cas actually left Dean to fend for himself in Purgatory (and dammit there's so much more... I’m not going to even go into it all). I suppose I just have to trust it’s there. AGAIN! I'm sick of just trying to find reasons why they get on. (and actually, I wonder if that's the same for fans who wonder way Sam and Dean get on? Maybe opposites attract? Maybe it's the way I can see every little nuance when it's Sam and Dean but not see it when it Dean and Cas. I get it, but I want to see more than just the ship on the show. I want to see the real friendship...) And I am NOT having a go at Dean/Cas fans. AT ALL! I just want the show to make sense to those who aren't shipping Dean/Cas. Give me something I can grasp here. PLEASE! And why do all DeannCas episodes have to exclude Sam (perhaps there lies be the rub...).

And ...um...was Sam even in that episode? Oh yes.. that’s right. He was on the computer. You are such good exposition Sam. Thanks for that. (I did like you reassuring Dean though. I know you don't need any reassuring because you are just so stoic and friggin' cardboard cut out...D:)

And there was this. This fucking killed me:

Dean: I was there. I know that place. I know we had to scratch and claw and kill and bleed to find that portal

Oh really? Because all the footage we’ve seen so far didn’t give us that. I’m surprised there weren’t violins playing in the background. There were (awful) camera zooms – jerky little…THIS IS IMPORTANT…signals from the director.

For fucks sake! Treat us like intelligent viewers. (I commend Jensen for giving us his extra serious face. He was trying to sell that, but it just didn’t wash with me). Or maybe the director was making the most out of clunky dialogue.

Now for the positive:

SAM IN BED AND FACING DEAN! Yeah...I'm grasping all those little, TINY Sam'n Dean moments. And sleepy Sam in a Tee...thank you! Sam hand on Dean's shoulder? \o/ Thank you! (but in context....grrrrrr.....)

The effects were great (yep, that’s like saying to an actor the set was awesome). There seemed to be more effects in this than we’ve seen before. The storm was cool, Cas as a full on angel was super cool (love the extra blue eyes!). The leviathans in Purgatory always look great. There were others…they were all pretty smooth for TV.

The reminder of the "perspective" theme was good. Dean remembered it one way – Cas gave him the “truth”. (So I wonder how much "truth" Dean isn't remembering?)

The hotel was interesting. (I spent a lot of time looking at the motel). Lots of prop reuse – the fridge, lamp, floor …WALL (yay!)

LOVED the wallpaper! Lots of flowers…again. They love flowered wall paper - and those flowers were awesome! (warning me that there was a lot of clunky, "meaningful"and completely empty moments in that motel room. *snark* sorry...).


One last thing. (*yikes* back to negative) Cas is on call for the boys - which is great of course because as soon as they are in danger they just have to call on Cas to save them. Oh yay! Cas can fix everything! \o/ Let's have entire episodes of them trying to work things out, get hurt and Cas can swoop in and fix them. Or what? Cas can't be found because he's busy in heaven?

I know, I know. I shouldn't resort to sarcasm but from where I'm sitting they have (one again!) worked themselves into a corner. If they have an angel on their shoulder they can do anything. Now Show has to work out ways that Cas CAN'T help them because he's...I don't know... crazy or a megalomaniac (I did like that comment!) or impotent or busy maybe?

And on top of that he won't remember his "reporting back" so he's "betraying" them which will play into Dean's betrayal issues and...*yawn*. And then there's Cas's "I'm not worthy issues' *double yawn* (oh me! How the fuck so cynical?!)

This is the closest - THE CLOSEST I have come to being so pissed off with the show that I could conceivably quit it. (hee..rage quit hubby just told me! He wishes...). That's really drastic for me and i think I have finally understood why there are disgruntled fans.

WHAAAAA! I don't want to quit you! I can cope with all the shit between Sam and Dean. AS LONG AS IT'S ABOUT THEM! I DO care if I'm bored! I do care if YOU DON'T MAKE FUCKING SENSE! I DO care when you FORGET THE PREVIOUS EPISODE!

I love you! Don't leave meeeeeeee *glings*

It's completely my fault of course. I often thought..."I can't imagine why fans aren't interested in the show anymore", then they give me an episode that makes me actually understand that. :(

I'm going to be one of those fans leaving the show kicking and screaming I'm afraid. If it continues like this (next 3 eps say?) then I promise I'll leave quietly. :((

*deep sigh*

(apologies for typos...it's late. I'm annoyed and sad. I'm not good at proof reading).

Comments

[gluisa88.livejournal.com]

I agree with literally everything you said. You said exactly what I've been thinking- right down to Crowley and Dean and Cas' relationship.

Exception: I'm not pissed at the show, it was just a bad episode.

What bothers me is how squeally everyone is about it but it's not because of actual quality but because Dean and Cas had "moments" (which, btw, seem very contrived to me.)

And honestly, I saw "caricature" Mama Tran from the very beginning episode. Everyone adored her but I found her embarrassingly bad.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi,

I figured everyone would be squeally (hence my multitude of warnings) and I don't begrudge them that. In fact.. lucky them! I wish is was me. I'm much happier being squeally! :) But I am (finally) being honest with myself and admitting that Dean and Cas heavy episodes just don't interest me. I mean.. they would if they gave us more than Dean just being all pained and misty eyed and Cas being less pained and mysterious. (but I figure that's just the way I'm reading it...I'm sure those that wanted that must have love it.*g*).

And *phew* not just me seeing the caricature Mama. I absolutely LOVED her the first time we met her. The dialogue was witty and sharp. But in this is just didn't feel "real" and forced.

I going to try not to be pissed at show. Just pissed at show for making me pissed tonight.

xx

[galathea-snb.livejournal.com]

I didn't actually see the episode yet, but I couldn't resist.

The demons&angels arc bores me into a coma for years now. I was so happy when S6 and especially S7 turned away from it. I really adored the leviathan arc, because it was new mythology. I have never been more disappointed than when they returned to angels&demons at the end of S7 to prepare for S8. :(

And word about everything you say about Dean&Castiel. For me it's a relationship that is all about telling instead of showing. It always feels like the writers take a shortcut with the character and his relationships on the show, they never really took the time to develop the relationship properly - even less so Cas' relationship with Sam - and hence I have troubles even believing they are friends. I have already resigned myself to the fact that the writers will probably return Dean and Castiel to being friends, although the whole betrayal storyline from S6/7 was never really resolved between the characters.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh wow...hey you. Hee... it's funny we've just got to know each other and we are sharing the same feels. ;)

I loved the leviathan arc because of that very reason. I also loved Dick and that there was at least an attempt to make a comment about modern day consumerism. And yeah.. it gave us a break from the angel and demons.

And yes re Dean 'n Cas and Sam 'n Cas. I totally want to SEE Dean and Cas's relationship. I want to be on board with that. I love me some bromance but it's all so surface. I feel like they've made the Dean and Benny friendship stronger in a few eps than they've shown us of Dean and Cas in HEAPS of eps.

And I am always fascinated with the Sam and Cas connection but it's always skirted around. There's such a connection there (in terms of Cas being the one who pulled his body out of the cage, the one to remove the wall and the one to save his sanity) but that is rarely explored. I can even go with Team Free Will (a bit), when it's actually that.

And er...you haven't seen it yet? Maybe my negative response will make it more positive for you. :) I think Bitten was better for me because everyone was so negative about it before I saw it..;)

I'll be keen to know what you think. ;)

[mithborien.livejournal.com]

After episodes I don't like, I just go on Tumblr and suddenly everything is pretty again!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ack! But it will be swamped with Cas and Dean pretty and that just might make me cry EVEN MORE! (Hee..in fact, I almost DID go to Tumblr but the thought of all the "NO MAN IS LEFT BEHIND" stuff will probably make me throw my laptop across the room).

:)

I shall read some fic and all will be well again. :))
xx

[fourtenpm.livejournal.com]

before I read it in full, I have to say that is a lot of things to say for an episode that bored you so much. hee.

I am not thrilled about this one either, I blame it on my little Sam-gal heart. But I do love bits and pieces of it. Especially Mrs. Tran. She is really fun. Her lines are not the best, and some of them are really cringe-worthy, but she is just so bull-headed and used to get her way that it's actually fun.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

HA! I KNOW!! hence... "passion". I honestly wish I could just say..."I didn't like that" and be done with it. But man, I felt like ranting tonight...*laughs* I was bored and therefore pissed! *g*

I do like the idea of Mrs Tran. So very much. I suppose I just want her to be real again. It might just be my overall dissatisfaction with the ep that made me not connect with her this time. But I do like her. I really hope we get some depth. A bit like we got with Ellen. (Maybe it's just me identifying with motherly characters. *g*)

[vyperdd.livejournal.com]

Oh, Ash!!! {{{{{{Ash}}}}}}} I really hope the next 3 eps are full to the brim of everything you love about SPN and have you squeeing from the roof-tops, cos I really don't want you to get to the stage of not wanting to watch anymore. That would be a sad day indeed :-(

I totally agree with you about the complete lack of any reference to what the boys went through last week and the fact that with the episode packed to overflowing with secondary characters (Cas, Crowley, The Trans) Sam really was pushed way, way into the background. I'm surprised we got as much Sam as we did, esp in regards to dialogue exchanges with Cas and the fact that Sam seemed so much more thrilled that Cas was back than Dean was.

Jared's tweet about was he is this ep made a lot more sense after seeing this. I was really worried that Sam would be completely absent when we saw only Dean in the Impala at the beginning. I really thought we'd be seeing more Sam-centric eps this season but I guess I was wrong.

I didn't hate it as much as you clearly did. For me, Bitten is still the low-point of the season so far but this ep was certainly a let-down after the amazing brother-focussed one we had last week.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh hey hun! You're up late like me! (better off to bed or tomorrow will be a right off..*g*)

That would be a sad day indeed :-(

Whaaaaa...it will be so sad. I have never felt so, um, uninterested in what's going on in an ep as I did this one (well, Reading is Fundamental came close...).

See... I don't mind Sam light episodes if Sam not being there is important or significant (like The End). Sam was there but he just wasn't...there. He was (to me I have to say!) a cardboard fill in. I don't mean his acting but he just had nothing to do in that ep except fuss after Dean and read off the computer.

Jared's tweet about was he is this ep made a lot more sense after seeing this.

Oh? What did he tweet? Was he taking some time off?


For me, Bitten is still the low-point of the season so far

See, for me, at least Bitten was interesting in terms of its ideas and filming and notion of POV and homage etc. I wasn't at least bored during that one. (dizzy maybe...;D)

I will not leave if Show gives me Sam and Dean. If it decides to be about Dean and Cas with Sam riding shotgun (for whatever "good" reason...) I will be outta here. I will be happy for those it suits but that just won't be me.

And the more we go on the more I'm feeling that Sam-centric episodes will be a mere "wish".

I think I might be finally folding and believing that Sam might not matter this season. It's pretty much been all about Dean so far so yeah... after this one I'm being a little more resigned than I had been up till now. But we shall see. we are only up to 8.07 so there's a heap more to come yet. ;DD
xox

[counteragent.livejournal.com]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{MY BUDDY ASH}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

If you ever need to rant at me or with me, be my guest!

I know how impossible it is to be calm about Sam and Dean (at least for me); I just love them so much. (Hee, that sounds totally unbalanced, but about them, I am!)

[locknkey.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah! another unbalanced Sam and Dean girl! We can form a club. ::grins:: I love them so much I'm pretty sure it's not rational.

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

I feel you, man. The last Crowley- & Tran-heavy episode was the one that made me rage quit (8.02), so I am right there with you. But I'm really sorry that you're feeling it, too. {{{{}}}}

I haven't watched since I realized this season was going to make me an insane person, but I've been reading a few people's reaction posts, because a part of me still hopes that something will happen to make it so that I can come back. I don't want to feel so angry and disappointed and rage-y. You're one of the people whose posts I've been reading, because I wanted to hear the positive things and sort of keep my eye on what's happening, without getting too close to it, if you know what I mean. Anyway, I agree with every single thing you said here—not in regard to this episode specifically, obviously, but in regard to the overall show direction.

Really just a hug of empathy and understanding. {{{{}}}}

[locknkey.livejournal.com]

part of me still hopes that something will happen to make it so that I can come back. me too!!!! But i get needing to be removed when it's all bad feelings. :(

I can't say I've hated things up to now and I feel this ep. was poorly thought out, written and directed. I think we've seen some reasons for hope and some really nice S&D interactions, but I also see why people are upset.

[maenad.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it was a Castiel episode. One of the issues I have with Castiel is that he tends to take over the plot. I don't think they've forgotten about Sam and Dean's problems - they just put everything on hold for Castiel. I have no interest in Castiel, so I hope he gets hauled off to angel prison or something really quickly.

Castiel episodes often feel like I'm watching a completely different show, aimed at people who like different things than I do.

And speaking of smart. We knew the witch was going to be bad yeah? So all that stuff was a complete and utter waste of time.

That subplot was awkward. I wanted her to surprise me. I mean - she's a witch. A witch who was concerned about going to hell and decided to strike back might be an interesting and morally grey character. But the whole framing of the thing was 'Comic misunderstanding with a side order of bloodshed!' so I can't say I was surprised.

I don’t mind Crowley in small (and I mean SMALL!) doses. I always think badies are best mysterious.

I like Crowley well enough, but then I've always been pro-demon. :) But I do have issues with the way he's being used. I don't think Crowley works as an open antagonist. That worked for Azazel and Lilith - they were zealots. Crowley is a manipulator - King of the Crossroads. He's never been given to making enemies openly unless pushed. When he was briefly forced into that role in season six, he got himself out of it as quickly as possible by faking his death. Now he's volunteering for the part of moustache-twirling villain?

I agree that Crowley works best in small doses, but I think that's because he's designed that way. He's the man who could be on anybody's side, who appreciates the value of being civil. He's not supposed to be capering about like Azazel 2.0, now with extra gore.

But I just can’t see why Dean and Cas are friends. Why? I really need someone to explain that to me.

No, I don't get it either. I can understand Dean's determination to get Castiel out as part of his 'Must! Save! Everyone!' (except possessed people) philosophy, but I don't think they have much in common. Every now and then Sam and Dean get drunk together, or have a good laugh about something, and heaven knows they're forever doing that thing where they have conversations with their eyes. It makes sense that they're friends as well as brothers. But Dean and Castiel only seem to have two settings: 1) talking about the epic specialness of their relationship and 2) comic misunderstandings because Castiel never actually understands a word Dean says. It's odd.

The reminder of the "perspective" theme was good. Dean remembered it one way – Cas gave him the “truth”. (So I wonder how much "truth" Dean isn't remembering?)

I liked the theme, but the execution felt clunky to me. It required Dean to forget things he knows. He's repeatedly noted that he feels guilty about everything ever, and knowing that doesn't help him stop feeling it. So the big mystery of 'Why does Dean feel bad about leaving Castiel behind?' was weird. Because feeling like shit is Dean's default setting. Duh.

One last thing. (*yikes* back to negative) Cas is on call for the boys - which is great of course because as soon as they are in danger they just have to call on Cas to save them.

Yeah - another big problem with Castiel. For about half a second, I was impressed with Kevin's torture scene. Kevin's not in every episode and a lost finger is a small enough injury that they might be able to sustain it. It's horrible, but it's real. People get hurt. But no, Castiel is back so we'll be gluing that sucker right back on.

And on top of that he won't remember his "reporting back" so he's "betraying" them which will play into Dean's betrayal issues and.

Oh, I did get one good thing out of this. I knew Alfie's little spiel about Castiel meaning well was rubbish. Wanting to use him as a mole makes much more sense for the angels. They had to get Dean to tell them where he was so they could fetch him and brainwash him. That was a nice moment of triumph for me.

But - yeah. I don't think I have your level of outrage about the episode, because once it was clear this was the Castiel show, I was pretty sure I'd be writing this one off.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

Oh, I did get one good thing out of this. I knew Alfie's little spiel about Castiel meaning well was rubbish. Wanting to use him as a mole makes much more sense for the angels. They had to get Dean to tell them where he was so they could fetch him and brainwash him. That was a nice moment of triumph for me.


I can not express my rage that Cas was given up front his get out of jail free card by telling us straight out that he is only doing this because he is brainwashed. While over in the other corner we have Sam not even looking for Dean because he didn't care enough to. Even if they make Sam brainwashed, it will be too little too late. They have already established and repeated the idea for too long that Sam just doesn't care.

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

Ooohh... :(

*hugs*

*hugs*

*hugs*

♥♥♥

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'M SO SORRY HONEY! I know you would have loved that one. I did TRY to like it but it just wouldn't LET ME!!!

*HUGS* I'm far to invested! (but you knew that already hey?!)

*SMISH*

xoxox

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

Will be skipping this one! You know, this 'you pre-screening the episodes for me' thing is really working - enjoying the season oh, so much more, this way. ;)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hee! I hope I don't make you miss ones you'll like. But yeah...you won't be missing much, In a nutshell....

Crowley tortured and was generally awful to a lot of innocent people so he could get someone to read the tablet (something about kidnapping future prophets). Mrs Tran was stupid so they were found and Kevin got whisked away. Mom fought off the demon and wasn't killed.

Kevin had his finger cut off (totally gruesome) and so he read the tablet and it was confirmed (I think) about hell's gates. In the end I have no idea what that was even all about.

Um... Dean got out of Purg with Benny (which we knew) and Dean felt guilty because he didn't have the strength to pull Cas out. It TURNS OUT that Dean remembered it wrong! REVEAL! Cas actually pushed Dean out and chose to stay he because he wanted to be punished some more for all his sins. Dean can stop feeling guilty about at least that now.

Lot's of meaningful eyes at each other. Sam was happy to see Cas. Dean didn't trust him - so more meaningful discussions.

Ooh and....IMPORTANTLY....Cas is now a double agent. He's allowed to go when the boys call but he'll be reporting stuff back to another angel (I should get her details but I think I had fallen asleep by then). Not really sure why.

Sam felt bad for Dean. No one cared about Sam.

The end.

:)

(I'm sure you didn't want the summing up but I figure if you're going to miss it on my account I should fill you in on all those important details. :DDD)

[elsewhere91.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this - i feel exactly the same way after watching that episode.

I hated (to the point of almost crying) that there was no mention, no NOTHING about last week’s episode. It was as if that incredibly important, powerful moment between them didn’t even happen?

Yes, i agree. It has been happening for a while now with show and it's starting to irritate me. I get that hopefully this will be brought up later but still....nothing. They could have at least quickly mentioned it.

I agree about the whole Cas/Dean thing. I just don't understand it - at all. It just feels that because a lot of fans like the whole Cas/Dean as best friends angle that the writers just ran with it without going into detail about why and how they are such close friends. It also feels that the writers just brush away the issues that Castiel caused as opposed to Sam's.

And why do all DeannCas episodes have to exclude Sam

And that's my major issue with Cas -heavy episodes. It doesn't feel like an episode of Supernatural because Castiel takes over everything. It's the Castiel show with recurring character Dean and guest star Sam. Even though Reading is fundamental is not on my favourite episode list i do like that episode because it felt equal with Castiel's interactions with Sam and Dean.

they have (one again!) worked themselves into a corner. If they have an angel on their shoulder they can do anything. Now Show has to work out ways that Cas CAN'T help them because he's...I don't know... crazy or a megalomaniac (I did like that comment!) or impotent or busy maybe?

I agree. It feels very repetitive.

The reminder of the "perspective" theme was good. Dean remembered it one way – Cas gave him the “truth”. (So I wonder how much "truth" Dean isn't remembering?)

Which is why i still have hope that there is much more to this season with both Dean's and Sam's storyline.

However i have loved all of season 8 so far and i do feel that there is much more going to happen and maybe this is just a bad episode - which happens at least once every season.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I too have been generally enjoying S8. It's had a promising start and as it progresses I am just beginning to get really worried that that is all we are going to get. I mean... there HAS to be more to Sam's story....surely. Or if not, I am at least hoping that there is some acknowledgement that that's it.

I keep thinking that I might not mind Cas so much if they didn't keep side lining Sam whenever he is in the ep. I think that's been the knock on effect of my Cas grumbles.

I keep saying I will be patient, so I will. For a few eps more at least. ;)

It might be a good thing that there's a break next week...;)

xox

[alienat.livejournal.com]

Haha, this is the way you rant? Oh my. You should read my ranting. :D

I did like the episode. Well y'know in the like way where I'm never gonna watch it again and it ranks at the end of my favorite episodes list. But I've seen worse - seen way better too of course. LOL

I hoped for a reference to last week's episode. But when have they ever done that? I guess they think men are men and don't talk about things like what happened.

I did really like the little brotherly moments, like Sam's hand on Dean's shoulder and sleeping turned towards him.

And I have to admit that I wanted to wrap Dean up in my arms because of all the self-esteem issues and guilt that's not his that he's carrying around. But the conversation in the end with Cas fall flat for me. Maybe it's because I don't feel their connection, either. Those two will always be a mystery to me.

I hope it'll get back to episodes like last week again. The boys still have some much issues to 'talk' about and I want that.

And I agree with you, if it's a Cas heavy episode Sam is barely in it. I really don't know why. But I guess it has to do with satisfying the other shippers on the show. :/

There's no epi next week if I'm right, so I guess we have two weeks time to get back in the mood. :)

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I hoped for a reference to last week's episode. But when have they ever done that? </i? The last time was 3 episodes in Bitten where they discussed the Mayan God MOTW, because THAT was important and Sam and Dean, not so much.

[colls]

I try so hard to stay positive for the Castiel fans, I don't dislike him but I don't find him "essential" to the show overall in the way Sam and Dean obviously are. I did like that Cas claimed he needed to do penance in purgatory, but disliked that he was the ONLY one who seemed to remember that.

I have felt Cas and Dean's friendship felt forced in the past, but it REALLY stood out to me last night. Sure, Cas got Dean out of hell YEARS ago, and it seems Dean still carries around some heavy sense of obligation for that and didn't want to leave him in Purgatory. *yawns* Anyway, circling to this episode, I'm still not buying them. Although I did see hints that Dean is cautious about Cas, rightly so since Cas is basically a double-agent now. Against his will, perhaps, but still.

While I'm as hesitant as Sam is about Dean's friendship with Benny, I agree that they've shown much more and sold it better than they have Dean and Cas this season. I'd much rather see Benny than Cas this season, TBH. Or maybe some Cas and Benny scenes, that could be interesting? IDK, they'd probably just fight over Dean and that could get old fast. /never mind.



Not much Sam this episode, but I did like the nod to the fact that they've at least talked with each other about the past year. Sam said that Dean had done everything he could, I'm assuming that was because they'd talked. It was still a slightly awkward moment and I left feeling a bit hollow over it. I would've like a bit more acknowledgment over Sam's own survivor's guilt.


And while I still love the Tams and I'm glad that they get to hang out with Garth, yeah -- they overdid mom just a tad in this episode. I did think finding a witch on craigslist was rather hilarious though.



At the beginning of the season I was VERY worried about a return to the angels and demons storyline. While I'm not quite as disappointed as I feared I would be, I do feel it's all a bit of fan service to keep Castiel important to the plot line. Good or bad, because I do generally like Cas - I still think it's a bit of an excuse to keep him around. Crowley is also a fan favorite and surprisingly is around a lot this season, too. :|

On the other hand, I am a bit interested in Naomi as she seems to be a different breed of angel ((also I adore the actress like whoa, so I admit to being ENTIRELY biased here)) and there was some stuff in Kevin's translation of the tablet to Crowley that I need to revisit because it sounded important?
I guess I'm still hopeful that it'll have a new twist.

*crossing my fingers for the next set of episodes*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Dean still carries around some heavy sense of obligation for that and didn't want to leave him in Purgatory.

Aah..I didn't make that connection. Cool. I wasn't exactly sure where that all came from - I assumed that he sees Cas as a friend and didn't like the idea of leaving him behind. But maybe that sense of obligation runs deep.

The Sam and Dean moments were nice. I did like sam's reassurances to Dean. Unfortunately my head was still in last weeks ep (probably from all the discussion I had about it..;D) so I just wasn't ready for Sam to be like that. But good for him. He took it on the chin and....i dunno...either buried it or just coped with it all very well.

I guess I'm still hopeful that it'll have a new twist.

Yeah...I'm hopeful for a twist too. Someone in the thread suggested that Sam might have been "brainwashed" by Naomi too. So he doesn't remember stuff from the past year...or maybe what's in his head didn't really happen after all. I don't know how I'd actually feel about that, but at least it might give us something extra from Sam's gap year. :)

[locknkey.livejournal.com]

I agree with nearly everything you've said here. I blame a lot of it on the director. I think he didn't do his job except in the special effects part. Apparently he's new, so I'm putting this down to a not thoughtfully written episode (it felt like they shoved everything into one ep. that they need to move the season along.) The pacing would have been much better if the Cas stuff was in an earlier episode instead of some of the earlier boring purgatory moments, but that is one of the problems of episodic TV. :(

Dean's make-up in purgatory - what the hell? Up until now I've enjoyed the purgatory visuals and that was awful. I also think some of the clunky acting can be placed with the director. I thought Mrs. Tran was pretty bad up until she took on the demon (I did like that part - it made sense in terms of who she was and was the only time I felt like she was the same person we've seen in earlier eps.) I thought Jensen had some nice moments - a couple of really exceptional ones, but it was hard to feel it in the light of everything else.

I loved Dean looming over Sam on the computer, as well as the touching and seeming in tune with Dean. (I think that does hark back to earlier eps. this season and fits in ways that would take longer than a comment box to go into. :) I am not surprised that stuff from last ep. was dropped. That is typical and will likely come back at the least opportune moment to create conflict. (Personally I would rather the conflict was external rather than between S&D.)

I know I won't quit show and I suspect this was an awful ep. (which happens ine very season) I am also tired of the angels/versus demons BS. That's not the show I want to see. (It would have been much more interesting to me to have the angels gone and Crowley as the big bad, with a small side of powered down/lost/ineffective Cas. although bad ass Cas was awesome - i just don't think there's room for him in this show, in that form on a regular basis)

All totalled, bad ep., but hoping things will swing back around to what we've seen with rest of show.

ETA: I should apologize for thread jumping all over your post. So tell me to knock it off it is bugs you. :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi. I'm putting it down to the director also. If he's knew I suppose there is that. The effects were pretty impressive. And I usually put bad acting (or noticeable acting) down to the director also.

I should have been totally prepared for the last ep not to be mentioned at all. It just really threw me. They very seldom directly link one ep to the next (unless they have made a point about it like Sam meeting Benny). I must go back over those scene between Sam and Dean to search out more. I spent too much time waiting for something to happen in connection to the past stuff.

I can't imagine actually quitting the show. I was just saying to a friend that it was suddenly understanding where those who have quit the show are coming from. If this is there level of dissatisfaction with every episode then I can imagine how hard it would be to stay positive.

But. I am hoping to remain positive. I will be worry for the next ep - but I usually am these days, so nothing different really.

And of course I don't mind you jumping in to chat on threads! I love that. And I love that about LJ. Discussions happen here and it's one of my fav things about being in fandom. So FEEL FREE!! <33

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

"It was as if that incredibly important, powerful moment between them didn’t even happen."

Yeah.

Someone needs to write a fic about how Sam went from totally pissed off to mellow, please...

It shouldn't feel so hard to come up with justifications for what the characters are doing. Sigh. But it's not our story to tell. Someone (Carver?) thinks what they are giving us makes sense. I don't think anyone actually involved with the scripts 'gets' what the show is about anymore: Sam and Dean being brothers. And coherent character development. Sigh.

I think this hurts more because last week had such promise...

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Someone needs to write a fic about how Sam went from totally pissed off to mellow, please...

That would be nice. Either Sam has just buried it (along with other stuff he's buried) or he's just coping very well. He took it on the chin and that's that. It will just seem weird if they pick that up again next episode (or another one) after him being so mellow in this ep.

I think this hurts more because last week had such promise...

That could be it also. On the back of such an intense brother ep this one paled. So yeah... maybe if it had been somewhere else it might not have bored me so much.

xx

[fourtenpm.livejournal.com]

You know, as much as I am not interested in Dean and Castiel relationship, I don't think Cas's appearance in this episode is about their relationship. I (hopefully not wishfully) think that he showed up to say two lines: "Everything is not your fault" and "You cannot save everyone". These are two counter points Dean has been ribbing Sam about for not hunting for a year. And if they, by they I mean writers, are going there, I think this is probably the beginning of Dean finally start to resolve some of his issues (cough cough self-worth/esteem cough cough), and find the man minus the crap.

And I feel like Dean and Sam are treating each other especially nice, nice and distant, careful not to step on each other's toes without seeming to not care, like some spouses are after a big relationship breaking fight.

SPN won't be on next Wed? or so I heard? Anyway, another point: looks like Jared twittered yesterday or so that they started shooting episode 12. So basically he knows like 2 months more worth of plot than us fans, I'm so not going to believe a word of speculation out of his mouth.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Good point. It may well have been all about startin Dean's emotional healing.

I suppose I always think of these heavier eps with them as being about their relationship (and I mean as friends). There was lots of kind of bonding moments - especially by the end so I suppose I think of that as part of their relationship.

And that's also a point about them tip toeing around each other - they did seem especially "nice" to each other. It might be part of the post fight healing thing. (I'll believe than...;D)

And I've heard none next week. Shame it's not the week after because I won't be able to watch it until a day later as I will be on camp with my school kids,

<3

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

I understand many of your complaints with the episode. Still, I didn't hate the ep; I actually liked it – mainly because we finally found out what really happened in Purgatory. And because the Purgatory incident has placed the whole "perspective" business into sharper focus.

Still. I much prefer the episodes that parallel the MOTW with the brothers’ predicament.

I just want the show to make sense to those who aren't shipping Dean/Cas. Give me something I can grasp here. PLEASE!

Oh, bb. It’s there, it really is. I don't ship Dean/Cas. (Full disclosure: I used to, but certain corners of fandom killed that ship dead for me.) I don't understand the "Cas is Dean's best friend" business, either. The same “best friend” that lied to and spied on the guys all through S6, who broke Sam’s wall? That best friend? Yeah, no.

Coming back to your request for something for you to grasp, for Show to make sense to those who aren’t shipping Dean/Cas: Take Dean’s tormented ". . . failing you just like I've failed every godforsaken thing that I care about.” That line rang of truth. I'm quite sure that the D/C shippers took that line and ran with it, but that line wasn't about Castiel. I'm not sure that everyone gets that this has always been Dean's default setting. Dean cares about a LOT of people. Dean believes he’s failed a lot of people. Dean also carries an overwhelming sense of guilt that has so messed him up in the head, only God knows what he sees in the mirror.

"I've failed every godforsaken thing that I care about,” could've just as easily been delivered to Sam. Dean could've said it Bobby, Ellen, Jo, John, Baby . . . under the right circumstances, even Benny could be the recipient.

I won’t say that Dean doesn’t care about Castiel, because he obviously does, but there are so many more people that he cares so much MORE for. Now, if Show would only address those issues.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey!

mainly because we finally found out what really happened in Purgatory. And because the Purgatory incident has placed the whole "perspective" business into sharper focus.

Yeah...know that I've had a couple of days to calm down a bit and put things into perspective, I agree. I am actually REALLY happy that we have that part of the story line revealed. :)

Take Dean’s tormented ". . . failing you just like I've failed every godforsaken thing that I care about.” That line rang of truth.

Yeah. I think this was an important line (and I confess to actually missing it during the episode. I was kinda steaming by the end.../o\). I know Dean feels like he fails everyone, which is immensely sad for him, especially when he actually doesn't ever really fail anyone.

I think I'm a little irrational sometimes with the show. I really needed to get past my grievances and look at these character moments. I think a lot had to do with the feeling that Sam was sidelined. But I'm even getting past that now, in the hope that we have some great things ahead for him and SamnDean. :)

Thanks honey! <33

[growyourwings.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I don't have time right now to say a lot here, but my initial reaction to your reaction post was, "oh thank god, I'm not the only one." I figured there would be a lot of squeeing about this episode. But I remember being bored. I didn't hate it. But I didn't love it. I still miss the old Sam & Dean relationship. I have so much trouble connecting to these characters any more. And while I enjoyed the angel and demon storyline up through S5, I also think it's done. And I think that includes Cas as well. And I love the character of Cas. I just don't feel the relationship between him and Dean that some fans do and I also think the writers are trying to fit something in that just doesn't seem like the same show to me.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yep! All that. I don't think I actually hated it so much as hated not enjoying it. Or being frustrated with it to the point of spewing all that stuff all over my journal.

I've said in a few places now that I think I finally got some insight with what people are finding annoying or frustrating about this season. I hadn't really been seeing it until now. So there's a bit of sadness tied up in that.

But I have hope that there will be some great things yet to come.
<33

[cordelia-gray.livejournal.com]

I didn't hate this one as much :) We seem to be having opposite reactions a lot this season.

Overall, though, I totally agree with most of your issues, and they're many of the issues I've been having all season. I feel like the showrunners were given a gift of an AMAZING set-up at the end of last season, and I feel like what they've done with it has been consistently dull and disappointing.

I did like Sam & Dean having a moment of caring and openness, much as it was very much emotional whiplash from last week. But then - this show does that a lot, where you have some intense emotional event at the end of one episode and you don't get any follow-up on it until several episodes later, so it wasn't completely unexpected. I've just been so starved for any affectionate interactions between the boys this season that it came as a great relief to me :(

The other thing that interests me from this episode is Naomi, and the introduction of someone who does memory-wipes a lot. Because one of my major issues has been that I just don't understand how Sam got from the desperate lost soul we saw at the end of S7 to the pretty much OK guy in the Amelia flashbacks. I just can't quite make it add up, and neither Sam nor the text have done a good job of explaining it - there's been this frustrating fog of uncertainty around the whole thing. But maybe that's deliberate. Maybe Sam couldn't answer Dean when Dean said "did you look for me?" because Sam can't remember. I sort of hate the "what's wrong with Sam this year" thing, but angel-related memory loss would make things make more sense to me, IDK. Combined with Dean's perspective issues, I'm actually a little bit interested again.

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

I LOVE this theory! Can it be true? Please?

[spnmonster.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on soooooo many points: I groaned too at the angels and demons storyline, I don't get Dean and Cas, I like Crowley but that was too much. *sigh*

I think one problem I'm having is there's just too much going on. There's Sam and Dean in separate flashbacks, there's Sam and Dean, Benny and Dean, Cas and Dean. the Trans' story, Crowley's quest -- the eps are just all over the place. There's no focus -- especially when the focus should be the boys.

I never thought I'd consider abandoning the show, but I feel like it's abandoning us first.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah...maybe it's the multitude of story lines. The probably was a lot going on in that episode, though essentially I felt like nothing actually happened. It's great that we now know everything about what happened in Purgatory because that's one thread tied up. We know how Benny got out, what happened to Cas, that Dean remembered one thing but the truth was something else (possibly the most interesting thing to come out of that ep).

So maybe we might get more of Sam's now. The often leave his until later (S4 and S6) so I'm hopeful that we've got that to come.

xx

[(Anonymous)]

I used to like Cas until season 7, where he took Sam's "crazy" (and plot point) in order to redeem himself for Dean. Then I was ticked, which was increased by the scene of him acting fruity in the car while listening to Don McClean's "Vincent" (because I love that song and now when I hear it I think of Cas, ugh). Now, when he makes doe eyes at Dean and professes his feelings to him, I feel like I am watching a soap opera set in the midst of a horror/drama show. It feels like they are pandering to certain fans, which isn't fair to D/C shippers either if it isn't going to go anywhere. It is almost like, "Okay, we know what the show is really about (the brothers) but we have this section of fandom that is very vocal and we don't want to lose their support. So lets go a couple episodes and focus on the brothers, and appease that part of our fan base. Then we will throw in a heavy Cas/Dean episode (or two) to keep the interest of the D/C shippers and then return back to the relationship of Winchesters". Yeah, in theory it may work, but I don't think they realize the mindset of a lot of SPN fans; we don't sit down once a week to just watch a show for entertainment. We watch because we are invested emotionally in the show and analyze it and the characters. It has been on the air too long and we (the fans) know too much (we also own many DVDs that help us with our analyzing, hee hee). Therefore, this kind of set-up has us scratching our heads and saying "What the f- are they doing?" I believe (and I say this proudly) we are too smart and knowledgeable for the writers and Carver. There has to be some semblence of continuity with the characters and the plot to keep some of us watching it without having to use alcohol and popcorn to make it enjoyable. I am worried that the ratings will be high for this episode, and the TPTB will see this and say "Hey, lookie here, everyone loves Cas and Dean together, so this is going to be the focus of the show now. See ya Jared, we'll call you." I wouldn't be the least bit surprised at this point. On a happy note, Kripke has to be thrilled that he got to do a Revolution episode with Led Zepplin music. Definitely will be watching that (and in the SPN universe, Kripke IS God and now he is missing. I wish Sam and Dean could use the amulet and find him:)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I used to like Cas until season 7, where he took Sam's "crazy" (and plot point) in order to redeem himself for Dean.

ooh, I have to say that I never though of it as him redeeming himself for Dean. Rather he did that for himself and for Sam. But yeah...maybe there was some of that there.

The soap opera feel is definitely there at times. Especially leading in and out of the flashbacks.

we don't sit down once a week to just watch a show for entertainment.

Exactly! I never think of watching the show has just something to do. I often joke that's it;s like some sort of religious experience. I become totally absorbed and I know every part of their journey to date. I know it's probably difficult for the writers to know as much as we do, but they need to keep the continuity as best they can.

I really (god really!) hope that it will NEVER be see ya Jared. I honestly think fandom will go into a tail spin. Sure, there will be a group that might think that's great but I'd say the majority are still in it because of the brothers. I would say the show would lose A LOT of fans if it just because Dean and Cas (and I can't see that happening either because I would have no idea how the stories would be maintained with and angel who can be anywhere and fix things all the time).

*phew* I think I talked myself out of believing that could ever happen.
:)

[ruby-jelly.livejournal.com]

Bloody hell!

Have another wine, no not whine, white or red.

I reckon editing, too. Hey look, another flash back, as we slow zoom into Dean's dazed face. Very soap opera there. It was just slow. A bit disjointed, but I did love Sam taking the opportunity to test the "bomb". A bit of his personality showing through the little brother box?

And when Dean describes the pain, Sam just looks away from Dean to Cas. I DON'T THINK SO! Such a revelation would pull pain from Sam, a la, the car bonnet scene way back when Dean described Hell. Sam (ok Jared) cried for his brother. Forgive me, but I wonder if actor Jared is listening correctly, or following direction to allow the camera pan, or something....!!!

OK, time to go back and read meta about previous ep.
*HUGS*

ps. please don't leave me...:o

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yep! Too much wine might have been the problem!

Yeah - the flashback editing has been quite clunky at times. I really hate that stary face thing they have going on. LOVED it during the interrogation scene.

And I'm still mystified by Sam's response to Dean in Purgatory. He did show some concern in this but I think I'll have to watch again to see if there were any nuances. I'm also wondering what Jared has been told about his character this season. I suspect not much (like with soulless!Sam). Apparently he likes to find out what's wrong with his character when he get the script - so he might be being directed to act a certain way.

No idea.

And I will never leave you honey!! Even when all this is over!! <333

[galwithglasses.livejournal.com]

Yeah, pretty much all that. I think this is the rotten thing about a series written by committee. There is nothing tying the episodes together consecutively The writing team for this one hasn't produced anything overwhelming. Meh. The director isn't a regular director of series TV. Again, meh. Jensen said at one of the recent cons, maybe Chicago, that filming the bit on the purgatory mountain was some of the most physically uncomfortable acting he's had to do on the show. That's saying a lot when you think bees and guy digging his way out of a box. I didn't hate it as much as I've hated some of the others and there was stuff to look at, just not so much. Have I mentioned I miss Bobby? I like crafty, snarky, Crowley, not evil, vicious Crowley. I don't think that's Mark Shepperd's strength either. For this one, let's go with bad writing and underwhelming directing.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh so you too? I did wonder what you thought. I'm really interested to see what you dig up for this one. I suspect I might get a lot more out of it after a visual analysis. ;)

Yeah - and I'm missing Bobby too. I think he brought a sensibility to it all. And the boys having a "father" helped. I know they have to fend for themselves now but he did add to the dynamic.

TBH I'm just tied of Crowley. I just didn't see the point of all his scenes other than let's have Mark in a heap of scenes. I do like him when he's crafty and sly. It's funny to me that I don't find him very scary or threatening. (though I did feel sorry for his victims). It feels like the boys really won't have any trouble stopping him or eventually killing him. But maybe after having Lucifer as the big bad it's hard to match that.

I'm gonna go with underwhelming directing and writing. Though I am thinking of watching it again to see if I can get into it more the second time around. ;)
xx

[runedgirl.livejournal.com]

It's tremendously therapeutic for *me* to read your episode reactions, along with some others. I didn't hate the ep, but that's part of the problem - I just didn't *feel* much. I think this was particularly jarring because last week I felt so much I had to write an episode coda just to calm myself down (okay, and to imagine some Sam/Dean kissing, but whatever...) So I think I had unrealistically high hopes for last night, some follow-up to last week's emotional outbursts, and a big wish for MORE of that SamnDeanness that last week brought. Instead we got alot of Cas. I've never been fascinated with that character the way I am with Sam and Dean, and while I initially thought they had some chemistry (Dean has chemistry with alot of men, doesn't he? Hmm) - anyway, I don't even feel that spark between them anymore. It ends up feeling too overtly fan-servicey, and that distracts me. I honestly don't know if that's me being hypocritical, because the bromancey moments between Sam and Dean feel genuine and organic and inevitable. Every shoulder brush and concerned look and casual touch, it all feels significant to me when it's Sam and Dean. It makes me *feel*. I just didn't feel much this week at all. But I do think part of it is because last week gave me so much, and it's impossible not to want more and be a bit let down when you don't get it.

Also? You can't give up on Show, I like knowing someone else sees things like I do. *is egocentric* LOL

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I felt so much I had to write an episode coda just to calm myself down

ACK! You wrote a coda and I didn't see it?! How?! /o\ ( I will seek it out! <333)

And YES YES to everything you wrote here. Everything! Dean certainly does have chemistry to alot of men...I could even say better than he does with the women maybe? I definitely feel it with Benny. And not in any ship sense, but rather just a good energy.

The one with Cas feels forced and I too find it distracting. I think I like it more when there's a "fun" element to Cas rather than the deep, morose, thinky stuff. But I know that's very personal...

Hee...I really don't want (and probably can't even imagine!) giving up on the show. What it did do is make me more aware of what those who have given up on the show, or are feeling unhappy with, are feeling. I went there for a moment and it wasn't a happy place.

I too love having someone to share similar thoughts with! <333

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

I didn't hate it, though the lack of episode to episode emotional continuity bugs me, too. It's just that it's been true of Spn for a very long time, so I've sort of gotten used to it. Usually in the long run the emotional arcs hold together -- I can see Mystery Spot echoing through the series -- but if you look for follow-up on THIS HUGE THING THAT JUST HAPPENED in the ep after it happened, more often than not you will be disappointed. Maybe there's a hint of Sam rationalizing in his talk about survivor guilt? And Sam seemed a little more active about finding weird stuff to look into and getting them to it, as though he's maybe made a bargain with himself that if Dean stops riding him about his year off, he'll meet him halfway by being more proactive about being in the hunt for now. /total fanwanking

The other thing that bothered me this week was just that there was too much in it. They could have completely left out the whole witch plot (along with the dubious remarks about hookers, please), and cut down on a lot of the Crowley scenes.

I'm also a bit disappointed overall in my sense that they are pulling their punches on Dean's story. I really wanted Benny to be involved somehow in how Cas got left behind, and I feel like the darker edge to Dean's purgatory experiences in general hasn't lived up to its promise.

[chemm80]

Usually in the long run the emotional arcs hold together -- I can see Mystery Spot echoing through the series -- but if you look for follow-up on THIS HUGE THING THAT JUST HAPPENED in the ep after it happened, more often than not you will be disappointed.

I totally agree. It strikes me as some half-baked notion that they need to "spread out" the angst or something. It's stupid.

I've seen it suggested that Amelia is nothing more than some shard of Sam's shattered mind, that she doesn't exist at all outside of it, based on some visual cues in a couple of the flashbacks, Sam's comment that "There was a girl, and then there wasn't." (I think it was glovered? You may have seen the discussion.) Anyway, I doubt that they'll go there, but I think it could be interesting.