Finally had a chance to watch 8.08 :))
Dec. 1st, 2012 05:58 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ash48Wow, what a mess.
And I don't mean that in a negative way. ;D
Stan: It won't last. You are living in a dream world.
Amelia: I like it here. I like this house. I like Sam.
Stan: Sam is a mess.
Amelia: I'm a mess.....Please. Let us be messes together.
I can't decide if the structure and style of that episode was a mess because of that section of dialogue or because it was just, er...messy.
Let's go with it being messy because that is exactly what this episode was all about. Characters being in a mess. That and the perception of reality.
I consider it a "mess" because it seemed all over the place. It was comedic and dramatic and a little fan-servicey. It was a friggin stir fry of STUFF! The pacing was also weird. But ultimately I found it satisfying because it addressed some of the overall story arc and there were some moments of pure gold.
This show isn't made for the casual viewer is it? (Why I even consider that I don't know...)
It was an episode that embraced the cartoon form and, in someways, was a cartoon and yet explored both Cas and Sam's inner turmoils so was, at the same time, a drama.
No wonder I was left feeling discombobulated. Supernatural is good at doing that.
There were many things I loved, some I puzzled over and some bits I yawned at (but those are purely personal so I'm not going to even address those...)
I have to start by addressing Sam's "dream" world because that was such a revelation and also quite the sucker punch.
After much speculating I think we've finally been given a major part of the puzzle about those flashbacks. There's been a question about whether they are real or not. Personally, I think they are real. I think they've had that dream like quality (soft focus, high saturation) because it's exactly that - a "dream world" that Sam tried to bury himself in. A place that he desperately wanted and needed but in reality it was probably more of a nightmare. Sure, it had ideal moments - picnics in the park, a dog, a house, a gal but really it was a place Sam didn't fit. I really loved how he was filmed in those flashbacks. He looked so big and awkward. They don't usually show Sam as abnormally tall as he is. They didn't shoot around that in these scenes. They made him really standout.
And how awkward were those scenes?! I wanted to leap in there are take Sam away from it all. But they were perfect because it was about seeing the reality. Seeing how out of place Sam was in that world. He was trying so hard to make it work (the fake laughing and the forced smiles almost killed me) but it was never right.
No wonder Sam stayed by Dean's side when he was first talking about not wanting to hunt in episode one. Sam fits into the world when he is hunting and being next to Dean. It's where he belongs and he's beginning to see that in the way that we are. I think it's also why Amelia isn't an easily likeable, clinched "nice" girl. She's troubled and not at all perfect (loved the spaghetti and hotdog dish.../o\). And the same with her father. This "normal" isn't particularly nice or comfortable. It's just real.
I think the flashbacks in this episode gave us more evidence of his world "imploding" and the state of Sam's mind.
I'm sure you've all seen this gif by now:
It's a brilliant moment and I do ponder the significance. I can't tell if this is a deliberate indication that his flashbacks are in his head and never really happened (Lucifer or "other" induced maybe?) or if it's a brilliantly subtle gesture that shows how Sam is feeling at this moment. Personally I think it's the latter. I wouldn't be surprised if Jared himself put that in. It tells us that Sam either feels like he's living in some sort of unreal nightmare or that he needs to ground himself. He's in emotional turmoil and thus turns to the thing that helped in the past. His stone number one. *sniff* IT'S SO FRIGGIN' SAD!!! I FELT SO MUCH PAIN FOR SAM DURING ALL THESE SCENES. WHAT A MESS! /o\ BUT I LOVED IT!
I wonder if it's shortly after this point that Sam left Amelia to head for the cabin as we saw in episode one? He seems to have come to the realisation that he was running away from something (looking for Dean, hunting) and so headed to the cabin to perhaps start on that. Maybe Don being revealed being alive gave Sam the motivation to (finally!) make a start. Though I had the feeling he had lived in that house with her for a while. Hmmmm....difficult to say. The timeline of Sam's year is confusing.
If it turns out that Sam's memories (or anything during that year) have been manipulated it might actually blow my mind. I'm pretty sure it's mostly Sam remembering things the way he wanted to but now he's recalling things as they really were. Again with the perception.
Now to the other stuff (hee...yes. There was other stuff, but I was pretty overwhelmed with all the flashbacks I admit).
In many ways Cas resembled this actual episode because he was both the comic (cartoon) character and the serious (dramatic) character. He lived in the unrealistic world of the hunter (where he didn't really fit) and the very real human world - where he has emotion and remorse. Cas is a mess also and liked the way that mirrored Sam. I wonder if that mix of comic and serious was deliberate to show us how Cas is having trouble "fitting" in. I think I suffered whiplash watching him go from comic "bad cop" to him contemplating suicide. I suppose it's very Castiel though - a mix of characteristics and his search to fit in.
He, like Sam, is also running away. Sam ran away from hunting and looking for Dean and Cas is running away from Heaven and facing what he did there. It's interesting that at the end Cas was ready to return to heaven but was thwarted by a higher power. It looked like Sam was ready to face up to what he needs to do also - I wonder if he was somehow thwarted also? Hard to know at the moment. I think there is still more to be revealed. (see...told ya it was a mess! A good mess though).
It took a while to get the point about the cartoon MoTW. Initially I was a little worried because Show continues to make light of death. Deaths became comedy and it made me squirm a bit. Of course, by the end I could see the relevance and actually it was pretty darn clever. It was a massive anvil of course (particularly taking Sam and Cas into Fred's head so they could talk about reality) but the fact that they literally dropped anvils made it totally acceptable and hilarious.
Of all the cartoon moments it was the exploding cake that well, took the cake. Show loves the blood splatters - it's become a signature. I love the way they played with that by making the cake look like blood and guts splatter. I thought it WAS blood and guts and thought they had gone too far. I thought to myself...if they don't take these deaths seriously now I am turing this off! Instead it was cake and therefore clever. :))
I loved how many times Sam smiled at Dean's quips. There's definitely growing sense of being comfortable together again. I'm not sure what to make of that yet because I think there's still so much under the surface. I'm still struggling with them not addressing that big possessed!Dean rant, but it looks like I have to just accept it as it is. Maybe it will surface again later.
I didn't even really mind Cas hunting with them (shock! I know!). I wouldn't want that to be a permanent arrangement but I liked the way the addressed having "a third wheel". And yay fighting over the front seat and braiding Sam's hair etc. There were some classic one liners that's for sure.
I think the idea of a cartoon world, with cartoon deaths was very cool. Maybe not as deftly handled as it could have been but nevertheless quirky enough to be interesting.
Seeing Mike Farrell as Fred (BJ from MASH) looking so old was weird (made me feel extra old!) I wondered what had happened to him. Nice to see him turn up in my show. :)
Also.... SAM'S HAIR!! OMG! *swoon*
And were they both sporting matching stubble in that one? Hee...
Overall it was very satisfying. Weird, but satisfying. Getting more of Sam's story was great and I like the way they have been teasing it out. It's interesting that Dean seems to be rather well adjusted at the moment. I'm not sure if it's because the focus is off of him (like Sam in previous episodes) and so they are not showing it to us or whether Dean has genuinely moved on. Cas being alive might indeed be what he needed to lift some of his angst.
I am sure there's heaps more to come on that. I can't wait!
Geek moment: I do need to mention that there was a HEAP of prop re-use in that episode. I am particularly fascinated by the, um, teardrop shaped art work. The top one is a martini glass and the bottom one is a lighthouse (I think!). Looks like they picked up a few classic pieces from... somewhere. Hee...so kitsch. I rather love 'em.
8.05
8.08
The painting is from Blood Brother (and from Slash Fiction), the bulb lamp is from Blood Brother (and from Yellow Fever), the bed head is from so many eps I can't list them all and the bedspreads... man, they look familiar but I can't place them (?). They are similar to the ones in Changing Channels, but not the same. /geek
And I don't mean that in a negative way. ;D
Stan: It won't last. You are living in a dream world.
Amelia: I like it here. I like this house. I like Sam.
Stan: Sam is a mess.
Amelia: I'm a mess.....Please. Let us be messes together.
I can't decide if the structure and style of that episode was a mess because of that section of dialogue or because it was just, er...messy.
Let's go with it being messy because that is exactly what this episode was all about. Characters being in a mess. That and the perception of reality.
I consider it a "mess" because it seemed all over the place. It was comedic and dramatic and a little fan-servicey. It was a friggin stir fry of STUFF! The pacing was also weird. But ultimately I found it satisfying because it addressed some of the overall story arc and there were some moments of pure gold.
This show isn't made for the casual viewer is it? (Why I even consider that I don't know...)
It was an episode that embraced the cartoon form and, in someways, was a cartoon and yet explored both Cas and Sam's inner turmoils so was, at the same time, a drama.
No wonder I was left feeling discombobulated. Supernatural is good at doing that.
There were many things I loved, some I puzzled over and some bits I yawned at (but those are purely personal so I'm not going to even address those...)
I have to start by addressing Sam's "dream" world because that was such a revelation and also quite the sucker punch.
After much speculating I think we've finally been given a major part of the puzzle about those flashbacks. There's been a question about whether they are real or not. Personally, I think they are real. I think they've had that dream like quality (soft focus, high saturation) because it's exactly that - a "dream world" that Sam tried to bury himself in. A place that he desperately wanted and needed but in reality it was probably more of a nightmare. Sure, it had ideal moments - picnics in the park, a dog, a house, a gal but really it was a place Sam didn't fit. I really loved how he was filmed in those flashbacks. He looked so big and awkward. They don't usually show Sam as abnormally tall as he is. They didn't shoot around that in these scenes. They made him really standout.
And how awkward were those scenes?! I wanted to leap in there are take Sam away from it all. But they were perfect because it was about seeing the reality. Seeing how out of place Sam was in that world. He was trying so hard to make it work (the fake laughing and the forced smiles almost killed me) but it was never right.
No wonder Sam stayed by Dean's side when he was first talking about not wanting to hunt in episode one. Sam fits into the world when he is hunting and being next to Dean. It's where he belongs and he's beginning to see that in the way that we are. I think it's also why Amelia isn't an easily likeable, clinched "nice" girl. She's troubled and not at all perfect (loved the spaghetti and hotdog dish.../o\). And the same with her father. This "normal" isn't particularly nice or comfortable. It's just real.
I think the flashbacks in this episode gave us more evidence of his world "imploding" and the state of Sam's mind.
I'm sure you've all seen this gif by now:
It's a brilliant moment and I do ponder the significance. I can't tell if this is a deliberate indication that his flashbacks are in his head and never really happened (Lucifer or "other" induced maybe?) or if it's a brilliantly subtle gesture that shows how Sam is feeling at this moment. Personally I think it's the latter. I wouldn't be surprised if Jared himself put that in. It tells us that Sam either feels like he's living in some sort of unreal nightmare or that he needs to ground himself. He's in emotional turmoil and thus turns to the thing that helped in the past. His stone number one. *sniff* IT'S SO FRIGGIN' SAD!!! I FELT SO MUCH PAIN FOR SAM DURING ALL THESE SCENES. WHAT A MESS! /o\ BUT I LOVED IT!
I wonder if it's shortly after this point that Sam left Amelia to head for the cabin as we saw in episode one? He seems to have come to the realisation that he was running away from something (looking for Dean, hunting) and so headed to the cabin to perhaps start on that. Maybe Don being revealed being alive gave Sam the motivation to (finally!) make a start. Though I had the feeling he had lived in that house with her for a while. Hmmmm....difficult to say. The timeline of Sam's year is confusing.
If it turns out that Sam's memories (or anything during that year) have been manipulated it might actually blow my mind. I'm pretty sure it's mostly Sam remembering things the way he wanted to but now he's recalling things as they really were. Again with the perception.
Now to the other stuff (hee...yes. There was other stuff, but I was pretty overwhelmed with all the flashbacks I admit).
In many ways Cas resembled this actual episode because he was both the comic (cartoon) character and the serious (dramatic) character. He lived in the unrealistic world of the hunter (where he didn't really fit) and the very real human world - where he has emotion and remorse. Cas is a mess also and liked the way that mirrored Sam. I wonder if that mix of comic and serious was deliberate to show us how Cas is having trouble "fitting" in. I think I suffered whiplash watching him go from comic "bad cop" to him contemplating suicide. I suppose it's very Castiel though - a mix of characteristics and his search to fit in.
He, like Sam, is also running away. Sam ran away from hunting and looking for Dean and Cas is running away from Heaven and facing what he did there. It's interesting that at the end Cas was ready to return to heaven but was thwarted by a higher power. It looked like Sam was ready to face up to what he needs to do also - I wonder if he was somehow thwarted also? Hard to know at the moment. I think there is still more to be revealed. (see...told ya it was a mess! A good mess though).
It took a while to get the point about the cartoon MoTW. Initially I was a little worried because Show continues to make light of death. Deaths became comedy and it made me squirm a bit. Of course, by the end I could see the relevance and actually it was pretty darn clever. It was a massive anvil of course (particularly taking Sam and Cas into Fred's head so they could talk about reality) but the fact that they literally dropped anvils made it totally acceptable and hilarious.
Of all the cartoon moments it was the exploding cake that well, took the cake. Show loves the blood splatters - it's become a signature. I love the way they played with that by making the cake look like blood and guts splatter. I thought it WAS blood and guts and thought they had gone too far. I thought to myself...if they don't take these deaths seriously now I am turing this off! Instead it was cake and therefore clever. :))
I loved how many times Sam smiled at Dean's quips. There's definitely growing sense of being comfortable together again. I'm not sure what to make of that yet because I think there's still so much under the surface. I'm still struggling with them not addressing that big possessed!Dean rant, but it looks like I have to just accept it as it is. Maybe it will surface again later.
I didn't even really mind Cas hunting with them (shock! I know!). I wouldn't want that to be a permanent arrangement but I liked the way the addressed having "a third wheel". And yay fighting over the front seat and braiding Sam's hair etc. There were some classic one liners that's for sure.
I think the idea of a cartoon world, with cartoon deaths was very cool. Maybe not as deftly handled as it could have been but nevertheless quirky enough to be interesting.
Seeing Mike Farrell as Fred (BJ from MASH) looking so old was weird (made me feel extra old!) I wondered what had happened to him. Nice to see him turn up in my show. :)
Also.... SAM'S HAIR!! OMG! *swoon*
And were they both sporting matching stubble in that one? Hee...
Overall it was very satisfying. Weird, but satisfying. Getting more of Sam's story was great and I like the way they have been teasing it out. It's interesting that Dean seems to be rather well adjusted at the moment. I'm not sure if it's because the focus is off of him (like Sam in previous episodes) and so they are not showing it to us or whether Dean has genuinely moved on. Cas being alive might indeed be what he needed to lift some of his angst.
I am sure there's heaps more to come on that. I can't wait!
Geek moment: I do need to mention that there was a HEAP of prop re-use in that episode. I am particularly fascinated by the, um, teardrop shaped art work. The top one is a martini glass and the bottom one is a lighthouse (I think!). Looks like they picked up a few classic pieces from... somewhere. Hee...so kitsch. I rather love 'em.
8.05
8.08
The painting is from Blood Brother (and from Slash Fiction), the bulb lamp is from Blood Brother (and from Yellow Fever), the bed head is from so many eps I can't list them all and the bedspreads... man, they look familiar but I can't place them (?). They are similar to the ones in Changing Channels, but not the same. /geek
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no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 10:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 10:54 am (UTC)Oooh and speaking of eloquent - reminds me to leave a comment on a fic of yours I just finished. :))
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 11:38 am (UTC)I'm so confused but i love how this season is making me think. I just think i'm starting to worry that we're not going to get a clear explanation about what happened to Sam to not search for his brother - yes he said his world imploded but i want more of an explanation either shown through a flashback or just a conversation with Dean about what happened (my personal theory is that Sam had a breakdown but it's probably wrong)
There are so many questions that need answering and i'm excited and there is so much potential this season but i'm also worried that we won't get the answers or that everything will be glossed over.
I did like this episode better than the previous one so \o/ and i agree with you There were many things I loved, some I puzzled over and some bits I yawned at
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 12:09 pm (UTC)Still can't figure how it's going to play out, though.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 12:40 pm (UTC)I agree, Sam touching his hand in that manner was a rather brilliant and exciting moment. ♥ Also, the fact that they constantly emphasised during the flashbacks how messy Sam and Amelia's shared life is reminded me of Hello, Cruel World, where Hallucifer told Sam that his hallucinations had to be a mess or Sam wouldn’t believe that it was his life. Man, I would be really thrilled if the Sam/Amelia storyline would link back to Sam's hallucinations in S7, but somehow I doubt it will. I mean, there is enough evidence that Amelia is in fact real, so I think the writers simply want to torture us with all that potential. /sigh
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 01:21 pm (UTC)I certainly hope there's still more to Sam's year. There feels like there has to be because there are still so many questions to be answered. My hope is that by 8.10 we have something more concrete.
I'm so confused but i love how this season is making me think
Yeah - I think that might be my favourite thing so far. Lot's of thinkies! And some awesome chat.
I certainly preferred it to the last ep but I confess there were moments I was starting to worry...just a wee bit. ;)
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 01:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 01:35 pm (UTC)Hee...which means I didn't need to write all that up actually. Perhaps you said it all in I sentence. :)
I too have no idea how they are going to play this all out - I do hope they have a master plan.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 01:46 pm (UTC)Though...
where Hallucifer told Sam that his hallucinations had to be a mess or Sam wouldn’t believe that it was his life.
is great. I think I'd friggin' DIE if they brought in Sam's hallucinations. I was never satisfied with that resolution so revisiting that would be awesomesauce. Even getting this little connection was pretty darn exciting.
xx
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 01:52 pm (UTC)Ha! It always amuses me when they do extended 'previouslys'. So there are demons! And angels! And then the world nearly ended! And then it nearly ended again! And Sam and Dean have issues! But then they resolved them! But then more issues! Then death! Then alive again! Then dead again!
I suspect they just make potential new viewers dizzy. :)
It's a brilliant moment and I do ponder the significance. I can't tell if this is a deliberate indication that his flashbacks are in his head and never really happened (Lucifer or "other" induced maybe?) or if it's a brilliantly subtle gesture that shows how Sam is feeling at this moment.
I hadn't seriously considered the idea that Sam's time with Amelia was a hallucination until this one. As it stands - I don't know. Amelia seems real enough, but that could be a question of perception; Lucifer-as-Dean initially seemed real enough. The character parallels are uncanny, but that is the way character parallels work. Sam's forever making friends with monsters who parrot his own words back to him - a remarkable coincidence, if not for the whole 'thematic purposes' thing.
Whatever is going on, it is at least clear that Sam is not as stable and happy in his new life as he's been claiming he was. And I like that we do seem to finally be edging towards some genuine conflict and drama in his story - maybe even some answers! :)
I think I suffered whiplash watching him go from comic "bad cop" to him contemplating suicide. I suppose it's very Castiel though - a mix of characteristics and his search to fit in.
I admit I get a bit twitchy about Castiel's continued inability to get human social interaction, when every other angel ever seems to manage it. If it were something he were incapable of doing that would be one thing, but in The End he was cynical, witty and manipulative, so ...
I mean, I get that it was for comedic purposes so it's not like I spent the whole episode seething, but I like my heroes smart, so if he's going to stay I really hope they minimise the mortifying social gaffes.
Initially I was a little worried because Show continues to make light of death. Deaths became comedy and it made me squirm a bit. Of course, by the end I could see the relevance and actually it was pretty darn clever.
I did like the way the sheer absurdity of the cartoon element cycled back around to taking death seriously again. A cartoon death is only funny because it doesn't look real. And yet (at least in some cartoons) it is real. And if you're ignoring it because you'd rather not see that ... it is clever. :)
Seeing Mike Farrell as Fred (BJ from MASH) looking so old was weird (made me feel extra old!) I wondered what had happened to him. Nice to see him turn up in my show. :)
It was a fantastic use, I think. The story about burned-out hunters/tragic war veterans practically begged for a MASH character. Granted, the whole 'My PTSD is reaching epic proportions because the Korean War is in some kind of time loop and I should have been discharged seven years ago!' thing was more Hawkeye's issue, but I hate to think what Alan Alda costs these days. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 01:57 pm (UTC)Honestly, I am feeling like I am watching different show and not Supernatural. I hope Amelia go away with her seemingly undead husband and never appear again. The way Sam's flashback is presented is jaundice and stunted and dragging down the narrative of the story. Sam's traipsing down memory lane during an investigation? How can that be sane? If you're a real police and you spazz out too much you'll jeopardize innocent live for sure.
Some people think they get something from Sam's FB but honestly I don't get anything. We don't get to see what is it that they talk about when they are talking. Are they really talking? How can that be said as fleshing out a story or even a character? I don't see any private moment when Sam is remembering Dean in previous FBs. Only recent episode when Amelia's dad opens a beer for him that Sam said about Dean. And what the hell is with that? A bartender in a bar opens beer bottle for their costumer all the time and I am sure many people do that to someone they offer a beer to. It's just polite. Now, IF the dad opens it with his ring, NOW THAT'S Dean's signature.
Where is the sign that Sam's world is imploded? Nowhere. Okay, Sam is rubbing his hand but we just see it now? If the writers really are being serious of writing Sam running away they could very well make Sam running away to India or China. As long as he still lives in America there are tons of things that will remind him of Dean. We don't have another Dad to reminds Sam of Dean. For example, When Sam was watching TV in motel with Amelia then there's an old cowboy movie he then quickly change the channel because he remembers Dean loves that old movies. When Amelia brought home pie, Sam will flip or just leaves the room or something because he the pie reminds him too much of Dean. Or maybe when Amelia calls him jerk or any other name Sam will freeze and spaz out remembering Dean. But I don't see it in how many scenes of FBs.
I am very sorry that I have to disagree with you because I don't see Sam grieving at all, We don't privy to these supposed talks he supposed to have with Amelia. Does he even has these talks or not? Again the writers fail to incorporate that in their way of narrating Sam's story. If these flashbacks turn out to be real then why would they drag it on and on and on until 8 episode? IKWYDLS in S4 utilize flashback better in only one episode than these FBs. And I thought that IKWYDLS was disservice because it was only one. But it turns out when they drag it down like these it doesn't serve anything other than ruining the flow of the narrative. If these flashbacks are turning out to be real and no twist behind it then I am calling it bad sloppy writing. I am not a good writer but I know there are good writers here in LJ that can write better. I am getting whiplash in seeing different Sam's personality and characterization in different episodes and these flashbacks for a whole storyline don't serve anything to move forward the plot.
For a whole 8 episodes of storytelling, Sam's flashbacks don't reveal anything. It could have been done in one episode with scenes fastforwarding in quick succession how Sam revert to desperation and maybe suicidal (alluding to Heartache) then meeting a mess woman on the way to his downward path of despair holding on together. Done. All FBs in 8 episodes encompassed in One Sam centric episode.
Not to mention that I can't reconcile Sam's speech to Dean in Heartache with these FBs. Sam says, "I have someting that I never had before and I want that.", "When this is all over I am done. I want normal life. I want to go back to that normal I had before." I mean really? Now that i know how fucked up Sam's "normal" is Sam wants to go back to that? What? Being a home wrecker? Being a mess with a woman who is a mess? How is it different with being a mess together with Dean? He is Sam's flesh and blood brother. The one that will sacrifice his life in a heartbeat to save Sam's. Will Amelia even consider to die for Sam?
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 01:59 pm (UTC)That's supposed to be Dean's life rules kinda things, meaning Sam must have heard that many times during their growing up. Now that Don has returned and Sam has taken a 'joint/wife' from him he should have remembered Dean's rule. What's that said about foreshadowing?
Sorry again Ash48. I hope you don't get peeved with my comment on your post. I'll delete it if it bothers you. It's good that these FBs work for you. To me they are not. Unless Carver hid a knife behind his back, I'd love to get stabbed and twisted by it. :D
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 02:25 pm (UTC);)
Lol, I just made an attempt to write some thoughts about this ep but got my thoughts tangled up in a mess. *g* I better just stick to reading your post on this one. LOL.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 02:38 pm (UTC)Sam rubbing the scar on his palm was just a wonderful hint about his state of mind. I wonder too if that isn’t his connection to Dean, you know? Dean has always been his security and stability, and that scar is a touchstone. It grounds him.
Oh that’s brilliant – Cas running from his reality in Heaven the way Sam ran from reality with Amelia. Yes!
Sam and Dean do seem to be falling back into place together, but I think that’s inevitable, and it doesn’t mean that they aren’t still at odds on some things. It’s just that they’ve spent the majority of their lives together. They fit together. They have a rhythm and unspoken understanding. That doesn’t mean that they won’t blow up again at the slightest provocation. They have such deep personal as well as interpersonal issues; it’s bound to happen.
Great review. It brought some of my own thoughts together more clearly.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 02:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 04:37 pm (UTC)Side note on the hotel room geekiness: I am in love with the light fixture in the 2nd photo. I've watched this ep twice now (once alone and then with hubby) and each time that light fixture appears, I kinda want it. I'm in a bit of a mid-century mood these days.
As I mentioned above, I've watched this with my husband - he lol'd for real at some of the Cas third-wheel moments. He also commented that he thought the MOTW concept was a bit ... ridiculous ... at first. But later he thought it was interesting.
I'm middle of the road on this ep. Certainly did not hate it and was not bored nor frustrated. I basically enjoyed it, but did not squee over it - although one small squee moment was Sam & Dean shouting "No" in sync when Cas asked to sit in the front. I smiled.
I had not caught the sam-hand-rubbing moment myself but did quickly hear/see it online. Very nice subtle acting/directing/whatever choice. I also don't think the Sam & Amelia bits are truly a dream (I think Carver and/or others have actually said that at some point in interviews?) But they are meant to be shown as being dreamlike in the sense of being in a fog after extreme tragedy as well as in an environment so vastly different from what he's known most of his life.
I have found myself wondering at the fact that all the (somewhat anvil-like) parallels show is making about Amelia losing Don and Sam losing Dean are being somewhat ignored by fandom. So much of fandom is so centered on Sam not looking for Dean, Sam being OOO, no brother moments, Cas vs Sam, etc.; that it seems like the fact that the show is trying to compare the extreme tragedy and loss of Amelia's *HUSBAND* (her significant other) to Sam's *BROTHER* (and *his* significant other), is not satisfying to brother fans.
It's weird that this comparison is somehow both anvil-like as well as ... subtle ? Not sure that's the right word or not. Perhaps we are all too used to seeing Sam or Dean fall completely apart on screen when they lose each other. This non-visibly portrayed "falling apart" throws us? I think Carver/others may have even commented about this in interviews.
Very rambly comment response. Stream of consciousness - which is why I like your reviews - they start me thinking.
:)
Edit - I should add that I had the same thoughts/reactions as you regarding Mike Farrell. Loved BJ/Mike in MASH. And yes, seeing him so old made me realize how long ago that show had been on. And made me go, wow, I'm old. lol.
And more: Yes! I also remembered thinking that Sam seemed very LARGE in those early flashbacks. I had never considered that it was a purposeful choice the show may have been making. Very interesting thought.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 04:50 pm (UTC)I have to say that this,
"Ha! It always amuses me when they do extended 'previouslys'. So there are demons! And angels! And then the world nearly ended! And then it nearly ended again! And Sam and Dean have issues! But then they resolved them! But then more issues! Then death! Then alive again! Then dead again!"
Is kinda a lol'ly, brilliant way of describing this show in a short paragraph. You win!
Also, thank you for this as well,
"The story about burned-out hunters/tragic war veterans practically begged for a MASH character. Granted, the whole 'My PTSD is reaching epic proportions because the Korean War is in some kind of time loop and I should have been discharged seven years ago!' thing was more Hawkeye's issue, but I hate to think what Alan Alda costs these days. "
I had similar thoughts about the comparison between Sam & Dean's PTSD and Hawkeye's and BJ's (and the other MASHer's) PTSD. And wouldn't it have been cool if they could have somehow had both Alan and Mike somehow in this ep?
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Date: 2012-12-01 05:15 pm (UTC)I don't think Show is done milking the brotherly friction yet, so we may not get 'talking' and 'resolution' until then. Certainly, there's the Benny thing still hanging in mid-air that will get airplay next episode.
Not much else to say but WELL DONE, m'dear! Always a pleasure to read you.
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Date: 2012-12-01 09:25 pm (UTC)Cause, yeah, I've been on the fence lately about Sam's flashbacks and his year. Sure, I've felt there there has been something off with them the whole time. I think we're meant to feel that something is off because they are always rather surreal and, sometimes, jarring compared to what is going on in the main story. But whether they are "real" or not has me wildly speculating all sorts of things. I "feel" that Amelia is real. I'm just not sure that anything else associated with her is. Most of this is because I am watching with a newly addicted friend and we just re-watched "Dream a little Dream of Me" and "Mystery Spot" The whole picnic scene with Lisa in the first one really gets me going and the fact that Gabriel's make believe wife in that universe of endless Tuesdays was named "Amelia" makes me wonder even further. Once you start down that road everything is fair game.
Now, I haven't re-watched very many but I have noticed, correct me if I am wrong, that, apart from the initial flashback in the vet office when Sam first meets Amelia, every other flashback with the two of them has been just the two of them, and the dog, alone. I find it strange and possibly more than coincidental that, in the first flashback where we have a third party, her father, we also have the phone call that "Don" is alive. Maybe all the speculation has me seeing connections and strangeness that just isn't really there. But I'll forgive myself for reading in to it because this is Supernatural and I've been conditioned to think there is always more than meets the eye in any given situation.
So, I've considered, and mostly discarded, that she's not even real. Again, she feels real. What is murky to me is Sam's memory of her. I've considered that his relationship with her is all made up in his mind and that it is messy and complicated because he is a mess. That there truly is no relationship and that intervention of a third party, in the form of her "father" is beginning of that push he needed to leave his particular dream world. Don (Dean) is alive. And that hearkens back to the first episode where I couldn't decide if Sam knew Dean was at that cabin or not once mention was made of all the disconnected phones. He didn't seem surprised to see Dean considering that he thought he was dead. The mysterious figure watching Sam leave could also play into this third party intervention. Sam's comment that "there was a girl. And then there wasn't" combined with how he just up and left her in the dead of night is also intriguing when considering this train of thought.
However, his comment that he "had something he'd never had before" ..or something to that affect...does not. I don't know how to take this comment because I can't decide what he feels he had during that year that he hadn't had before?
I've also considered that, like Dean's misperception of the purgatory escape, that maybe he did meet this girl but that she isn't nearly as broken as he made her to be and that their relationship ended because of this and also maybe because her husband came back into the picture.
I'm probably in the minority in that I don't want Sam to have abandoned this relationship or life, even if it is all a dream, simply because of Dean's return or even because he decided to start looking for Dean. I think it needs to be specific to Sam or to this relationship alone, whether that be because one or both of them realize that their feelings are forged in a shared experience of grief and pain and will never be more than this, or due to the return of the lost husband, or that Sam realizes on his own that it is time to stop running, or even that Sam realizes either own his on or by nudging intervention that he is living in a "dream" world. Don't get me wrong. I am a sucker for the epic bromo as much as the next person. I just don't really want their motivation in everything to always be about the other.
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Date: 2012-12-01 11:04 pm (UTC)This show isn't made for the casual viewer is it?
I love that it isn't (though it may not help the ratings!). It makes it so much richer than shows you can pick up at any point. I cheer every time they do a call-back to long ago (and wince whenever they contradict themselves).
I was too hard on this episode — it's actually pretty good!
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Date: 2012-12-01 11:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-12-01 11:42 pm (UTC)Bwaaahahhaaaa! :D There are times when I mention my show to someone and they ask what it's about or what's been happening. I usually end up looking blank because I just don't know where to start.
And I like that we do seem to finally be edging towards some genuine conflict and drama in his story - maybe even some answers!
Yes! God, hope I long for some answers on this one. I am torn between thinking there's going to be some massive reveal (hallucinations or Sam somehow being somehow stopped from looking for Dean would come into that) or that it really is just Sam creating a "normal" life for himself as a way of escaping - well, everything. Either way I'm hoping for a lot more yet.
I admit I get a bit twitchy about Castiel's continued inability to get human social interaction,
Yeah - it's wearing a little thin. I enjoyed it early on but I keep thinking about the Castiel we first met. The kick ass, powerful angel. He seems to have slipped back to being a child and I figure that's purely for the comedy of it. I always struggle with Cas though so I've mostly not been thinking about him too much. I spend a lot of energy making sense of Sam and Dean - trying to make sense of Cas would tax my poor brain even more...;D
The story about burned-out hunters/tragic war veterans practically begged for a MASH character.
What a great thought. I always had a soft spot for BJ so seeing him in this ignited that feeling. I had wondered if that might have been in the back of their minds when casting him. Wow...getting Alan would be quite something. But yeah, costly and I suppose the show isn't high profile enough. I often think that about them getting JDM back. He's made quite a name for himself. It would be amazing for the show if he was able to make an appearance somehow (maybe in the last ever ep *fingers crossed*.)
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Date: 2012-12-02 12:08 am (UTC)It's totally cool. I'm glad you feel like you can come here and get some grievances off your chest. I use my journal to do that so I'm more than happy for you to. If the discussion is civil I'm like a pig in muck reading all the thoughts.
Of course, this does mean I will try to address some of these. :)
First off I will say I understand and I am feeling some of these frustrations as well. I haven't decided yet (a bit like this episode) if the FB's have been a clever way of story telling of a messy and sloppy way. I think there is definitely inconsistencies and I am mighty frustrated by not being told up front what has happened and also by having to see both Sam and Dean in the past and then the present.
But I think it's the decision they have made in the story telling so I am going with it for the sake of loving my show and desperately wanting it to work.
Where I am at the moment is that we are learning of Sam's past at the same time he is. I know that sounds weird but I think what Sam remembered in this episode has only just come back to him. So when he said he had normal and wants that he was remembering the "good" stuff. As time has gone on he is beginning to really see what it was like. If Sam really wanted to go back to that life he would have walked out on Dean ages ago. Of course he can't and won't but I like to think that's because there's no other place he would rather be.
We haven't been shown the grief yet. I think that's the missing piece and why what we are seeing is problematic. We keep seeing this past life that looks neither fulfilling or satisfying and we just can't understand why Sam is there. They haven't shown us what "imploding" actually looked like on Sam. My comment above is more about the result of him suffering from some kind of meltdown (post implode). The way I see it, for him to be in that situation things had to get pretty bad. For Sam to pursue this "dream" life he had to be in an awful place. They have hinted at it, but they haven't given it to us (like they did in IKWYDLS).
It's friggin' frustrating and I am concerned that we are just having to accept that Sam had a melt down and ran away. Hard to believe knowing Sam the way we do.
I cant make a call on it all yet because we are still on 8 episodes in. I admit to holding out for the next 2 episodes to see where they are going with this. We should get either a reveal or cliff hanger going into the Xmas hiatus, which hopefully will satisfy some of our current issues.
I will say that if they are going to give us Sam in a relationship then I am pretty happy that they've done it like this. I don't see Sam as a home wrecker though. I see him very lost, out of place and running away from facing what he has to do. Amelia isn't his ideal match - she's no Sarah or Maddison (or even Ruby), she's someone who has experienced loss as well and I think he's mostly just hanging on. She's not Dean's replacements (much the same as Benny isn't Sam's) but I find it really curious and I do like that it's a mess and not simply - Sam found the girl of his dreams. He didn't and he's beginning to realise that.
Either that...or the whole thing is a mess because they haven't thought it all through. I'm seriously hoping that isn't the case.
xx
no subject
Date: 2012-12-02 12:11 am (UTC)hmmmmm
Hee... And it's cool. It's helped me tease out come of my thinking a bit more. I certainly don't have the answers but it's fun thrashing it all out.
xx
Edit...
Date: 2012-12-02 12:23 am (UTC)I'm thinking that maybe there was enough "good" stuff for Sam to want that. I don't think he's referring to Amelia though. I think he's just referring to not hunting. I suspect it will be through the course of the whole season that Sam will realise that normal isn't for him (which yeah, it's inconsistent. Sam has always known normal isn't for him. Maybe he just wants to keep trying or something...)
xx