8.15 reaction 'n stuff

[ash48]

Oh dear Show. There are times you are just like one of those B-grade (um, maybe D-grade) horror genre matinee movie flicks. You know, the ones where the story doesn't really make a lot of sense but because you have a beautiful girl in it and good looking men you hope no one will really notice.

The problem is... this isn't a one off movie that you can cringe and face palm over and put it in the "so bad it's good" categories. It's a show that the majority of the watchers know intimately and therefore aren't going to hand wave some of the glaring inaccuracies. They are going to cringe and wonder... what the hell?!

I will say I went in really prepared for this one. I read a lot of reactions before I watched and therefore was prepared for it not being great. (In fact, I don't think I've read ANY positive reviews).

I didn't hate it though. In fact, there was enough in there that I enjoyed to make the episode watchable. I wasn't despairing like I did in some of those early episodes. I just think it was badly observed and written. As part of the so called "reset" we had to go through that moment again of Dean telling Sam he trusts him. I'm not even going to moan about that OR moan that Sam would even think that Dean doesn't trust him. It's all just stupid. It's completely ridiculous for Sam to think that Dean only trusts himself. Instead of getting annoyed about that I'm just going ignore that that even happened. Because...hello. Dean knows how capable Sam is. AND Dean trusts Sam with his life - every time they go out on a hunt they put their lives in the hands of the other. And Sam knows that. He does. So making him say those things to Dean was unnecessary. It was there (like much of the first part of the season) just to create tension for the sake of it.

I get that "trust" is an on going issue between them, but I see that issue being more about them lying to each other and not about them trusting how capable the other is. They lie to protect the other. They lie because they don't think the other will understand their motivation for doing something. They lie because they know how the other will react.

What I CAN completely understand is Dean being upset that he's not the one to do the trials. That makes a heap of sense. Doing something like that is exactly what Dean is all about. It would have given him a cause and a purpose and Dean is driven by those things. But instead of addressing that (or the fact that he would be terrified for Sam) they chose to take the direction that Dean doesn't trust that Sam is capable of the job. Utterly crazy and therefore completely ignorable. LALALALALA (and that goes for how stupid they made Dean look in the name of getting a few "laughs" or just to provide a reason to give the audience info. Dean would have known what a familiar is...etc.etc. Not going to harp on. LALALALALA)

It was also very curious that they addressed some history (like the monsters they let go- thank you) and yet didn't make a comment about having to sleep in a motel again (which...YAY motel!). I thought the first comment out of Dean's mouth would have been him missing his room, or the water pressure...or something. Of course the opening banter was awesome. More please!!


TBH I'm not sure what to say or where to put the whole bestiality, master/slave, thing. Seeing the guy chained to the bed I'm thinking...those guys have been reading waaay too much fanfic. I dunno. I have a pretty big master/slave kink so it would be hypocritical for me to be down on this. I just. Nah...I think that could have all been explored in a more positive way. Or something.

The MoTW stories usually parallel Sam and Dean's story so I was totally nodding along with the "soul mate" comparison. I have no idea if all that was there to provide that mirror, but it worked that way for me. (I was all over the idea that they could read each others thoughts. It totally seems like they can sometimes).


I did completely love the flashbacks. I think mostly because it tells me that the writers haven't forgotten what these boys have been through (even though we don't always see it in the writing). I honestly thought Sam's experiences with Lucifer had been forgotten. It's curious that they gave Dean a flashback of Mary dying. He wouldn't have seen that (I don't think) but I think that would more about the point of their painful past. I'm glad they gave us his Hell shot though.

And last but not least. Sam's obviously not ok and as much as I'm yelling (along with everyone else probably) TELL DEAN, I can understand why he isn't. See, that part of their characterisation makes sense to me. Sam has just got through convincing Dean he can do this and that it will be all right. For him to turn and say..."um, I'm coughing up blood man"..would just make Dean worry even more. And we KNOW Sam likes to protect Dean from that worry. This is where they have the trust issues. I would like to think the hypocrisy was deliberate. Sam complaining about Dean not trusting him and then not being trustworthy himself. So, I'm actually ok with that. As long as it doesn't become this major issue of contention between them. Dean would understand why Sam doesn't say anything. He'd do exactly the same thing (so please Show, don't make a big thing out of this). And Sam not being ok? Thank you. Just, you know...hurt!Sam and all...;)

Geek moment - the chairs in the motel were awesome!

I'm still excited. It was great to have them talking to each other (though entirely different conversations would have been better), it was good to get the flashbacks, it was lovely to hear the low rumble of the Impala and it was great to be reminded that Sam and Dean are soul mates.
Perhaps we can just put the rest down to homaging a bad matinee movie.

This ep, in many ways, reflects S8 so far I think. Uneven. Some great moments, some ok moments, some WHAT THE FUCK! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! moments and some...awwwwwww, I know why I love my Show moments.


(Also... do we know exactly why Dean hates witches so much? Did we ever get that history? Or is it just something he says every time they come across them? Maybe he has a phobia, like the one Sam has to clowns. Or something).

And for the record -

Dean specifically hates: rats, snakes, cats (?), dogs, witches...+?

Dean specifically loves: Sam, pie, his car, good water pressure, memory foam, burgers, slinkies, beer, whisky, sex, rock 'n roll, his weapons...+?

Comments

[gateslacker.livejournal.com]

Idk, I may be in the minority here with regard to the Sam and Dean stuff (not to the pretty ridiculous, haphazard, MotW story which rivals Bugs as a story I don't want to ever see again. Ever.)

No, I think what Sam says was pretty insightful and maybe something Dean never even considered about himself. (Heck, I never really considered it and this conversation kindof felt like an epiphany to me, too). Because, to me, it does make sense. No matter how many times Dean gives lip service about trusting Sam, which I feel to be sincere comments, it is in his nature to not be very trusting at all. And I could argue the nature vs nurture vs a combination of both with myself all day long. But, to be honest, for all of his insecurities and daddy issues that have played out over the years, I don't think Dean has any sort of doubts, overall, with regard to his judgement or gut instincts. He knows how to make a command decision and stand by it. It is what makes him a good hunter. He doesn't typically hesitate nor does he spend a great amount of time second guessing himself. Dean had to be self reliant. He idolized his father and loved him and made excuses for him but, deep down, he was the one who had to be there for his brother from a really young age. He became the protector. I always feel bad for Sam because he never really knew normal and safe and he wanted it so badly. Dean, on the other hand, was at an age for that complete 180 their lives took after Mary died to leave a lasting impression. He had 'normal' and then learned that you couldn't ever trust in normal or safe which is an important distinction, I think.

I was also glad that Sam's not telling Dean made sense in light of their conversation. I also consider it to be a personality trait of Sam's, to tell the truth. Sam always keeps these things to himself. I mean, way back in season one, he did not tell Dean about dreaming of Jess's death until episode 10. Even then, I think he only told Dean because the vision involved their old house. I wonder how long Sam would have kept that secret had that not happened. Would he have ever told Dean? Of course, this is the first time we see the coughing up blood thing. Is this the first time he has experienced these symptoms because I have to consider that he hasn't even related them to the trials, yet. Aside from it being a "Sam" reaction, I see people react this way all the time in the real world, too. There's the ignore it and it will go away; the I'll just wait and see if it happens again/gets worse; the I don't want to worry my family for nothing, and the variation, I don't want to worry my family at all; the I don't want to need someone having to take care of me and its variation, I can take care of myself. This is consistent with Sam's past/need or desire to be independent coupled with his desire for Dean to see him as capable and independent. Sam wants Dean to trust him but, honestly, I'm not sure he even realizes how he undermines this by keeping these things to himself.

So, yeah, I bought it. And I don't really have the trouble many do with the ongoing brother conflict because I do feel that many of their issues are due to their differing personalities and what their life has molded them into. These deep seated behaviors are often very unconscious and, even when folks realize they are reacting in a certain way, often cannot seem to figure out how to change. Sure, people can learn and grow as I feel they both have done but it can be very difficult to completely alter these responses and the two steps forward, one step back dance they do is realistic of this. Historically, Sam has taken Dean's lack of trust personally and who can blame him. But this is the first time he seemed to realize that Dean's trust issues may have nothing to do with him at all. Dean seemed to really consider what Sam said to him instead of blowing him off which makes me think that Dean was being a bit introspective as well. So he provided the sincere lip service. Again. Time will tell whether he is able to follow through, especially when his 'protector' role is activated.

Anyway, just my two cents..... or twenty! It's amazing that we can be so chatty when the bulk of the episode was rather ho hum. Oh, how I love this show!

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

it is in his nature to not be very trusting at all.

That's really how I took it, and I thought it was such a valid and insightful point. Dean's trust issues have nothing to do with Sam and is ability or capability to do what's necessary, it's just Dean's intrinsic inability to let other people to the saving and risk taking. I it makes sense - the role of the hunter who saves people and puts his life at risk every day is his identity, and if he looses that he really has no idea who he is.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi,

Thanks for your thoughts. And I don't disagree at all. In fact, it's exactly the way I see the whole thing too. It's just that I didn't get all that from that scene. It reminds me of the Sam not looking for Dean thing. Fans came up with amazing and plausible and wonderful reasons why Sam might not have looked for Dean. The show never did though. All they gave us is his world imploded and the rest involved a romance that added little to his overall story arc. I mean - it did add something and I think the overall intention was there - it just wasn't very well executed imo.

The same with the dialogue. I would have to re-watch it to see if I can read more into it, but my initial reading was Sam getting Dean to trust someone other than himself to do something. I felt it was Sam acknowledging that Dean didn't really trust that Sam could do it. The fact that it seemed resolved at the end - Dean telling Sam that he did trust him made me feel that they weren't giving us those lovely layers that we can find in it. It feels like a set up - Dean has said he trusts Sam and now Sam is not returning the trust. I just want it to be much deeper than that. I want the show to be thinking like we do.

I was so burned after the first 10 eps that I am wary of thinking there's anything much deeper than the surface dialogue. But believe me...I am more than open to them proving me wrong.