8.15 reaction 'n stuff
Feb. 21st, 2013 08:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ash48Oh dear Show. There are times you are just like one of those B-grade (um, maybe D-grade) horror genre matinee movie flicks. You know, the ones where the story doesn't really make a lot of sense but because you have a beautiful girl in it and good looking men you hope no one will really notice.
The problem is... this isn't a one off movie that you can cringe and face palm over and put it in the "so bad it's good" categories. It's a show that the majority of the watchers know intimately and therefore aren't going to hand wave some of the glaring inaccuracies. They are going to cringe and wonder... what the hell?!
I will say I went in really prepared for this one. I read a lot of reactions before I watched and therefore was prepared for it not being great. (In fact, I don't think I've read ANY positive reviews).
I didn't hate it though. In fact, there was enough in there that I enjoyed to make the episode watchable. I wasn't despairing like I did in some of those early episodes. I just think it was badly observed and written. As part of the so called "reset" we had to go through that moment again of Dean telling Sam he trusts him. I'm not even going to moan about that OR moan that Sam would even think that Dean doesn't trust him. It's all just stupid. It's completely ridiculous for Sam to think that Dean only trusts himself. Instead of getting annoyed about that I'm just going ignore that that even happened. Because...hello. Dean knows how capable Sam is. AND Dean trusts Sam with his life - every time they go out on a hunt they put their lives in the hands of the other. And Sam knows that. He does. So making him say those things to Dean was unnecessary. It was there (like much of the first part of the season) just to create tension for the sake of it.
I get that "trust" is an on going issue between them, but I see that issue being more about them lying to each other and not about them trusting how capable the other is. They lie to protect the other. They lie because they don't think the other will understand their motivation for doing something. They lie because they know how the other will react.
What I CAN completely understand is Dean being upset that he's not the one to do the trials. That makes a heap of sense. Doing something like that is exactly what Dean is all about. It would have given him a cause and a purpose and Dean is driven by those things. But instead of addressing that (or the fact that he would be terrified for Sam) they chose to take the direction that Dean doesn't trust that Sam is capable of the job. Utterly crazy and therefore completely ignorable. LALALALALA (and that goes for how stupid they made Dean look in the name of getting a few "laughs" or just to provide a reason to give the audience info. Dean would have known what a familiar is...etc.etc. Not going to harp on. LALALALALA)
It was also very curious that they addressed some history (like the monsters they let go- thank you) and yet didn't make a comment about having to sleep in a motel again (which...YAY motel!). I thought the first comment out of Dean's mouth would have been him missing his room, or the water pressure...or something. Of course the opening banter was awesome. More please!!
TBH I'm not sure what to say or where to put the whole bestiality, master/slave, thing. Seeing the guy chained to the bed I'm thinking...those guys have been reading waaay too much fanfic. I dunno. I have a pretty big master/slave kink so it would be hypocritical for me to be down on this. I just. Nah...I think that could have all been explored in a more positive way. Or something.
The MoTW stories usually parallel Sam and Dean's story so I was totally nodding along with the "soul mate" comparison. I have no idea if all that was there to provide that mirror, but it worked that way for me. (I was all over the idea that they could read each others thoughts. It totally seems like they can sometimes).
I did completely love the flashbacks. I think mostly because it tells me that the writers haven't forgotten what these boys have been through (even though we don't always see it in the writing). I honestly thought Sam's experiences with Lucifer had been forgotten. It's curious that they gave Dean a flashback of Mary dying. He wouldn't have seen that (I don't think) but I think that would more about the point of their painful past. I'm glad they gave us his Hell shot though.
And last but not least. Sam's obviously not ok and as much as I'm yelling (along with everyone else probably) TELL DEAN, I can understand why he isn't. See, that part of their characterisation makes sense to me. Sam has just got through convincing Dean he can do this and that it will be all right. For him to turn and say..."um, I'm coughing up blood man"..would just make Dean worry even more. And we KNOW Sam likes to protect Dean from that worry. This is where they have the trust issues. I would like to think the hypocrisy was deliberate. Sam complaining about Dean not trusting him and then not being trustworthy himself. So, I'm actually ok with that. As long as it doesn't become this major issue of contention between them. Dean would understand why Sam doesn't say anything. He'd do exactly the same thing (so please Show, don't make a big thing out of this). And Sam not being ok? Thank you. Just, you know...hurt!Sam and all...;)
Geek moment - the chairs in the motel were awesome!
I'm still excited. It was great to have them talking to each other (though entirely different conversations would have been better), it was good to get the flashbacks, it was lovely to hear the low rumble of the Impala and it was great to be reminded that Sam and Dean are soul mates.
Perhaps we can just put the rest down to homaging a bad matinee movie.
This ep, in many ways, reflects S8 so far I think. Uneven. Some great moments, some ok moments, some WHAT THE FUCK! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! moments and some...awwwwwww, I know why I love my Show moments.
(Also... do we know exactly why Dean hates witches so much? Did we ever get that history? Or is it just something he says every time they come across them? Maybe he has a phobia, like the one Sam has to clowns. Or something).
And for the record -
Dean specifically hates: rats, snakes, cats (?), dogs, witches...+?
Dean specifically loves: Sam, pie, his car, good water pressure, memory foam, burgers, slinkies, beer, whisky, sex, rock 'n roll, his weapons...+?
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Date: 2013-02-21 01:01 pm (UTC)Something totally unrelated to everything you said, because I seem to be the only person to be totally weirded out by that: Portia was not really a dog. Only part-time. So why was her dog-form docked and cropped? In her human form we should have seen at least something related to the ears (I will not even touch the whole tail-thing in this context considering the subject matter of the episode)
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Date: 2013-02-21 01:10 pm (UTC)Um...I haven't given much thought to the way the dog looked (only that it was a gorgeous dog). I think my brain is completely glossing over that whole thing. I suspect they hadn't given much thought to the dog being docked and cropped maybe? Or maybe they did.... ;)
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Date: 2013-02-21 01:20 pm (UTC)Exactly what I thought...you're certainly not alone.
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Date: 2013-02-21 01:49 pm (UTC)I took more issue with her wearing that collar. WHY FER? Fashion choice? Really?!
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Date: 2013-02-21 01:19 pm (UTC)On top of all the master/slave creepy shit, they even picked a dog with a docked tail and cropped ears!!! For shit's sake what is wrong with this crew when nothing sets off alarm bells? Some days I hang my head in shame over this show....It's almost like they raided the kink meme and thought- oh, so this is what you guys like, we can do that. But, they can't - they so obviously totally missed the point. Hey guys? The frat party is THAT AWAY, we're over here facepalming over your attempts to be one of the cool kids. **shudder** I shouldn't think about it too long, it gets worse.
However, I totally agree with your assessments over more arguments that I just can't get my head around the motive for, other than argument for the sake of argument. The brothers were on top form even if their script writer needed an education.
Points to wonder though, does this mean we're changing canon to say Dean DID see his mother on the nursery ceiling somehow? Ugh. I'm just grumpy this afternoon I think, I just don't like this Dean very much at all.
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Date: 2013-02-21 01:31 pm (UTC)I'd say they'd definitely tapped into some of the kink memes. But you know, if they were going to do that surely they'd realise that most of the writing is m/m. (maybe that's why that other partnership existed...)
If they are suggesting that Dean DID see his mom on the ceiling, that does add another layer to his psyche.
And this Dean isn't our usual Dean. It's a Dean that these writers thought they knew but didn't. It's easy to write a caricature of Dean, much harder to get under his skin. I'm ignoring a lot of this one. (See how much better I'm getting at this!! *g*)
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Date: 2013-02-21 05:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-02-21 01:25 pm (UTC)C'mon, this is Carver's season. It's going to be all about that because he loves his contrived angst lol
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Date: 2013-02-21 01:33 pm (UTC)But yes! I agree that Carver totally going to milk this. The worse thing about that is that we've totally been there. If Dean doesn't get why Sam is hiding this then I'll....I'll....
yeah. that.
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Date: 2013-02-21 01:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-21 01:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-21 02:05 pm (UTC)I think these conversations were very clumsily handled, as much of the episode was very clumsily handled. But I think there's a kernel of a good idea in there, and it's one that has needed addressing since Swan Song.
Go back before that and you have Dean worrying whether Sam is capable of doing the heroic thing - he's primed to fear Sam might turn evil and he'll have to kill him. That's not the issue anymore. Dean knows Sam can save the world. The issue, as of last week, was that Sam will save the world and die.
Dean does have good reason to be worried about that because Sam has a) a long history of making highly moral decisions that lead to very horrible things happening to him and b) a very poor track record of saving himself from those horrible things. Cold Oak? The cage? Soullessness? Insanity? All things somebody else had to save Sam from. The Man Who Knew Too Much is a strong argument to the audience that Sam can save himself, but it's not one Dean was allowed to be privy to.
I think that does tie into the idea that Dean only trusts himself, because purgatory put him in a position where he had to save himself (ultimately he had to carry Benny out) and that saving himself is ultimately futile because there is nothing beyond the fighting. So he may as well throw himself into surviving as many trials as possible because it's what he's for, and because Sam tends to suffer in highly dramatic ways when he does the same.
Sam has to prove, not that he can close the gates of hell, but that he can live. And that leads neatly to him not telling Dean about the blood, because that goes right against what he's trying to prove. He can demonstrate to Dean that he can do anything, but illness is something that happens to you, and you can't fight it the way you would a hellhound. It triggers the one thing about him that Dean still can't trust - that he'll be okay.
So I thought the episode toyed with some interesting issues, but didn't delve into them properly.
TBH I'm not sure what to say or where to put the whole bestiality, master/slave, thing. Seeing the guy chained to the bed I'm thinking...those guys have been reading waaay too much fanfic. I dunno.
I just sort of ... twitched at a lot of this. Because every time they looked like they might actually talk about how the ethics of this work, they tried to distract us with sex or jokes. And ... okay, but could you actually talk about what this all means instead of using 'sexy dog' as a gimmick?
Also... do we know exactly why Dean hates witches so much? Did we ever get that history?
He tends to rave about them being icky. But I actually think this episode gave the best explanation so far: witches choose to be monsters. I think it ties back to Malleus Malleficarum where the whole point was that Dean made the same choice (dealing with demons) that the witches did and will suffer the same fate.
Dean specifically loves: Sam, pie, his car, good water pressure, memory foam, burgers, slinkies, beer, whisky, sex, rock 'n roll, his weapons...+?
Clint Eastwood movies, especially with monkeys in them. :)
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Date: 2013-02-21 02:09 pm (UTC)Sam has to prove, not that he can close the gates of hell, but that he can live.
and
But I actually think this episode gave the best explanation so far: witches choose to be monsters.
Well played!
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Date: 2013-02-21 02:05 pm (UTC)I think it has to do with "bodily fluids", and how they're always messing with them: exchanging them, flinging them around. He made comment of this waaaaay back the first time Show featured witches. I forget which ep; too lazy to look it up.
Trust will always be a bone of contention between the boys, though Sam did make the distinction between Dean trusting him and Dean only trusting himself. And this is important. Dean will forever be in the midset that Sam is his baby brother and Dean's job is to protect him. It's the core of his existence; he's said as much in the previous episode. So if he can't trust himself to carry out this ONE BASIC TASK--the cornerstone of his life's mission--who can he trust? Annnnnd ... it's also a control thing. Dean likes things defined, black and white. But his life lately has been anything BUT.
So of course Sam can't tell Dean he might be experiencing alarming side-effects from completing the tasks! Dean would put his foot down in no uncertain terms. And Sam has something to prove to himself: that he won't fuck this up. That he can do it. That he's worthy of Dean's trust.
It all totally makes sense to me.
(Apparently I have thoughts about this!)
Edited for organization, blarg!
ALSO...
Hmm, this kinda leaves me wondering about character development, or lack thereof. We have quite the list of what Dean loves and hates; what about Sam?
Sam specifically hates: um ... ? Dean's dumb jokes?
Sam specifically loves: Dean's hamburgers. His laptop.
Short lists.
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Date: 2013-02-21 02:28 pm (UTC)Sam loves frou-frou coffee, emo music, salat, books, making bitchfaces, sex with non-humans
Now he nearly has a personality ;)
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Date: 2013-02-21 03:06 pm (UTC)Regarding Dean's hatred of witches, I'm not sure we've ever been explicitly told why Dean hates witches. Other than him consistently bitching about them any time they cross his path. My off the top of head theory is that witches are humans that have CHOSEN to embrace the supernatural; have CHOSEN to become supernatural. Or perhaps using Dean phrasing, have CHOSEN to become monsters. Since to Dean anything that is supernatural = monster (although he has let in a little more grey area over the years.) Perhaps to Dean CHOOSING being supernatural is much, much worse than having it forced on you. In fact, doesn't Dean say something like this somewhere in this episode? About how the witch!cop perhaps doesn't deserve to walk like Benny, that girl from the found-film ep (whatever her name was), and...was there one other? *shrugs*; because the witch!cop CHOOSE to go down the supernatural path.
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Date: 2013-02-22 02:12 pm (UTC)xxox
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Date: 2013-02-21 03:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-22 02:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-02-21 03:21 pm (UTC)I'm deranged, just listen to me! :)
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Date: 2013-02-21 03:23 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-02-21 03:22 pm (UTC)I did love the scene when Sam first met the dog and up thru the point where he tried to warn Dean about their guest. LOL! And the car scene at the end was all kinds of gratifying. It's definitely not in the running for my least favorite episode ever.
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Date: 2013-02-22 02:19 pm (UTC)Looking forward to seeing what's happening to Sam though. Might have some hurt!Sam fodder for some potential fics...;)
xx
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Date: 2013-02-21 03:39 pm (UTC)Of course, that's not exactly about competence, though Sam's competence, and Dean's questioning of it not out of disrespect for Sam's abilities but out of worry about Sam's condition, was in play in the Amy affair, as did Sam not being honest initially about his hallucinations, a situation that's being paralleled here -- the kind of protective lying to each other they do does touch on uncertainty about whether the other can handle things. But I think a lot of it maybe that it's easier for them emotionally to play it as about competence because that's something they can define and dispute and claim more easily than all the murky history that contributes to their trust issues. After all, a lot of the reason Dean invested in the kind of trust he felt in Benny was that it had the simplicity of being based in having each other's backs in the simplest sense without too much baggage. Sam and Dean will trust each other with their lives on the hunt every day, but they're always going to be trusting each other with a lot more than that, with all inevitable let down and complication. If that makes any sense.
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Date: 2013-02-21 03:50 pm (UTC)Wow, you can tell I didn't sleep much last night. I'm not even going to try to go in and correct my syntax there!
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Date: 2013-02-21 03:42 pm (UTC)that goes for how stupid they made Dean look in the name of getting a few "laughs" or just to provide a reason to give the audience info. Dean would have known what a familiar is...etc.etc.
SERIOUSLY. Dean is not stupid -- as Sam said, Dean is one of the best hunters and the most knowledgeable about lore, so why on Earth didn't he know about familiars? Dean's no dummy, and neither is SPN's audience. Who of us doesn't know what a "familiar" is? ARGH! Stupid writers are stoopid.
do we know exactly why Dean hates witches so much? Did we ever get that history?
He has major issues with them spewing bodily fluids, that's for sure. Maybe it's just a hygiene thing? ;)
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Date: 2013-02-23 01:33 pm (UTC)And I can go style (and kink!) over substance. ;D
Only last week Sam said Dean was a genius and then this week they portrayed him as being a bit of a idiot. After hunting for as long as he has he would definitely know what a familiar was.
Maybe it's just a hygiene thing?
HA! That's it! :DDD
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Date: 2013-02-21 04:50 pm (UTC)I did like the interaction between the brothers though although I did shake my head at Dean supposedly only trusting himself and his lack of trust about Sam's ability to succeed.
Did Sam not take on the devil himself and jump in the pit to take the big bad down? He should get a heck of a lot more kudos than that. Nothing beats that for dedication to succeed. He didn't even try to fight it. He knew what needed to be done and did it.
If anything, I would think that Dean would be more worried about knowing Sam can make that final sacfrice, again, if it is required. Not about Sam's ability to follow through. That is BS.
I loved Dean telling 'Sammy' that he did trust him, although I was worried that his (Dean's) flashback of hell where he is screaming for his brother and Sam can't save him, would just make Dean even more determined that Sam couldn't do this, so I was pleasantly surprised that, instead, it served to remind him that he DID trust Sam. With his life and with his soul. So I thought that was nicely done.
And I totally agree, Dean's flashback of Mary was inaccurate. Dean never saw his mother burn on the ceiling; that certainly would have come up before. However, the witch could implant things that made them fearful so I will go with it not being a stretch that the witch could use Dean's own imagination to summon that up.
Although I am a bit thrown by all the Dean and Mary closeness we've seen (Dean carrying a picture of him and her in his wallet all this time and now this terribile moment flashback of her death), when in the early years, it was John and Dean who were close and things... Honestly, I would have thought that his father's death would have been more tramuatic. But, whatever, it worked and while I thought the episode itself was rather boring and badly acted, I did like the brother's moments. They add so much more to it :)
I think Dean is allergic to cats... lol!
I find it interesting that we find out so much about what Dean likes and dislikes but it is harder to make a Sam list. There is a lot about him that we are not shown. We know he doesn't like clowns...
I really do hope they don't have Sam hiding this for long. I can totally get why he didn't say anything yet. This has only happened and there is no reason for him to raise the alarm yet. After all they had been thrown around a bit and he might be thinking he must have bite his tongue or something because there wasn't enough blood to really be worried. he looked a bit surprised because, I have no doubt, he was mentally doing a triage to try and figure out what he must have hust. Undoubtably he knows he isn't bleeding internally... so he will probably just discount this as being something weird. At this point, there really is no reason to tell or show Dean. After all neither of them are whinny when it comes to injuries.
The writers will be stupid, IMO, if they have Sam hiding this for long once it happens more than once or twice. It would make no sense. In order for them to have grown as characters, Sam will need to disclose this to Dean. He is just too smart to think that hiding something like that would be a good thing, given how well that has worked out for them in the past. Fingers crossed, that the writers won't have him hiding it for long. Maybe another episode but that is about how long I think he would without saying something.
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Date: 2013-02-21 05:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-02-21 04:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-23 01:45 pm (UTC)It makes me wonder if, in his past, he had a run in with them. (and of course my brain immediately goes to them hurting Sam in some way and therefore he hates them....*nods*)
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Date: 2013-02-21 06:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-23 02:06 pm (UTC)I think it's maybe more like him not trusting himself and transferring his feelings onto Dean
ooooh, that's interesting. Hmmm..maybe. I think Sam is definitely worried and maybe there is also that fear that he will fail and Dean may be right in not trusting him...
*meep*
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Date: 2013-02-21 07:17 pm (UTC)Yes! Thank you! Exactly?! WTF?
And,I love your list of Dean's likes and dislikes. I demand a fic. Haha.
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Date: 2013-02-24 02:12 pm (UTC)I demand a fic
Ha! I always demand fic! (And if I wrote I would be writing heaps!)
xxx
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Date: 2013-02-21 10:43 pm (UTC)Anyways, on to more important matters. I really enjoyed the ep - I actually hoping for a stand alone ep because it felt like we needed a bit of a break and light relief. It sure wasn't the best storyline ever, but I enjoyed it well enough, and the whole dog collar/master/slave/chain kink made me chuckle - I assume one of the writers has been checking out some bad werewolf J2 fic on Ao3 for inspiration. But James was really likekable and I felt for his predicament.
And there were so many adorabole Dean funny!faces. I also really liked the two still talking about the whole 'who's goanna sacrifice himself this time round' debate, because, yes, no way Dean would let it go that easily.
Sam's 'I know it's not that you don't trust me, you just don't trust anybody but yourself' was rather well observed and astute, I thought. The problem is not that Dean does not trust Sam's capabilities or willingness to do the necessary. What he cannot do, is to make himself dependant on somebody else, or vulnerable, or needing help. And in his head the only way he can avoid that is by being the hero ALL the frickin' time. He just does not know how 'to let go' of responsiblity and the need to protect. And Sam realised that. It's all about Dean and his issues, not about Sam at all. So Sam is not mad, just sad that his big brother is such a screwed up little soul. Well - that's what that exchange meant in my head!canon anyways....
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Date: 2013-02-24 02:28 pm (UTC)Ah..yes. It's something that often surprises me. I mean, I get that there are a lot of people who don't embrace all the porn and all the kink and so the subject matter in this ep might have been a bit squicky for them. But all I could keep thinking is - I hope someone writes this as a fic with Jared/Sam as the familiar to Jensen/Dean. :))
I don't know. I have lots of thoughts about this but it will probably all get too deep. Suffice it to say (and very quietly) I think sometimes there is a bit of bandwagon jumping on certain things. Not by everyone but I sometimes think that fans put a bit of pressure on each other to say - think like me or something is wrong with you. Or something...too hard to put my thoughts into good words about that.
And I didn't mind the ep at all. I mean, it felt clunky at times and I really didn't like some of the dumb comments they gave Dean, but mostly I enjoyed it.
And I like your thoughts on Sam's comment. I admit to only hearing it as Sam thinking that Dean doesn't trust him to do the job (and survive). I would love to think that Sam was making the observation that Dean needs to be the hero and can't let that go. I mean, I certainly think Dean's issue IS about him not being the one to do it and not that Sam can't do it. I just didn't feel that the show was giving us that. As with lots of the wonderful observations made by people here - I think WE can read and understand lots of different things into what was said. I was just disappointed that it seemed pretty cut and dried that it was about Sam thinking Dean doesn't trust him. But I do love you're head!canon and it's what I would like to think also.
I suppose we'll see how this plays out. I'd love to see them exploring Dean's issues rather than (or as well as) Sam's.
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Date: 2013-02-21 11:05 pm (UTC)They've spent way too much time hanging out on the SPN Kink Meme. Don't they know they're supposed to warn for stuff like that? This comment isn't a rant so much as me being totally baffled by what they were thinking.
Maybe somebody else already brought this up in the comments but what are women of color supposed to make of this? Really, what is anyone supposed to make of this? The cat could be interpreted just as badly.....is more baffled....
The one cool thing I saw was that there was a chess board with the pieces being moved by unseen hands...Dun Dun Dun....
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Date: 2013-02-24 02:37 pm (UTC)Not on this thread but I have seen it mentioned around the place. No happy is what I'm getting...
I was trying to see past the collar and the master stuff to see how the familiar is actually equal in the relationship. I think there was an attempt to correct that - "I'm no ones pet" etc. - but I'm not sure they pulled that off.
It's hard for me to comment because mm D/s and certain styles of slave fic are my no. 1 kink. This ep certainly didn't work as kink for me though - but that's mostly because I really don't find women in that role kinky. (sorry - that was probably TMI!!).
Oooh, and I didn't notice the chess board. It's appeared a few times now hasn't it?! Which makes me want to collect all those times of course! :))
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Date: 2013-02-22 03:27 am (UTC)No, I think what Sam says was pretty insightful and maybe something Dean never even considered about himself. (Heck, I never really considered it and this conversation kindof felt like an epiphany to me, too). Because, to me, it does make sense. No matter how many times Dean gives lip service about trusting Sam, which I feel to be sincere comments, it is in his nature to not be very trusting at all. And I could argue the nature vs nurture vs a combination of both with myself all day long. But, to be honest, for all of his insecurities and daddy issues that have played out over the years, I don't think Dean has any sort of doubts, overall, with regard to his judgement or gut instincts. He knows how to make a command decision and stand by it. It is what makes him a good hunter. He doesn't typically hesitate nor does he spend a great amount of time second guessing himself. Dean had to be self reliant. He idolized his father and loved him and made excuses for him but, deep down, he was the one who had to be there for his brother from a really young age. He became the protector. I always feel bad for Sam because he never really knew normal and safe and he wanted it so badly. Dean, on the other hand, was at an age for that complete 180 their lives took after Mary died to leave a lasting impression. He had 'normal' and then learned that you couldn't ever trust in normal or safe which is an important distinction, I think.
I was also glad that Sam's not telling Dean made sense in light of their conversation. I also consider it to be a personality trait of Sam's, to tell the truth. Sam always keeps these things to himself. I mean, way back in season one, he did not tell Dean about dreaming of Jess's death until episode 10. Even then, I think he only told Dean because the vision involved their old house. I wonder how long Sam would have kept that secret had that not happened. Would he have ever told Dean? Of course, this is the first time we see the coughing up blood thing. Is this the first time he has experienced these symptoms because I have to consider that he hasn't even related them to the trials, yet. Aside from it being a "Sam" reaction, I see people react this way all the time in the real world, too. There's the ignore it and it will go away; the I'll just wait and see if it happens again/gets worse; the I don't want to worry my family for nothing, and the variation, I don't want to worry my family at all; the I don't want to need someone having to take care of me and its variation, I can take care of myself. This is consistent with Sam's past/need or desire to be independent coupled with his desire for Dean to see him as capable and independent. Sam wants Dean to trust him but, honestly, I'm not sure he even realizes how he undermines this by keeping these things to himself.
So, yeah, I bought it. And I don't really have the trouble many do with the ongoing brother conflict because I do feel that many of their issues are due to their differing personalities and what their life has molded them into. These deep seated behaviors are often very unconscious and, even when folks realize they are reacting in a certain way, often cannot seem to figure out how to change. Sure, people can learn and grow as I feel they both have done but it can be very difficult to completely alter these responses and the two steps forward, one step back dance they do is realistic of this. Historically, Sam has taken Dean's lack of trust personally and who can blame him. But this is the first time he seemed to realize that Dean's trust issues may have nothing to do with him at all. Dean seemed to really consider what Sam said to him instead of blowing him off which makes me think that Dean was being a bit introspective as well. So he provided the sincere lip service. Again. Time will tell whether he is able to follow through, especially when his 'protector' role is activated.
Anyway, just my two cents..... or twenty! It's amazing that we can be so chatty when the bulk of the episode was rather ho hum. Oh, how I love this show!
no subject
Date: 2013-02-24 11:22 am (UTC)That's really how I took it, and I thought it was such a valid and insightful point. Dean's trust issues have nothing to do with Sam and is ability or capability to do what's necessary, it's just Dean's intrinsic inability to let other people to the saving and risk taking. I it makes sense - the role of the hunter who saves people and puts his life at risk every day is his identity, and if he looses that he really has no idea who he is.
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From:no subject
Date: 2013-02-27 08:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-27 02:00 pm (UTC)thanks for popping by.
xx