8.15 reaction 'n stuff

[ash48]

Oh dear Show. There are times you are just like one of those B-grade (um, maybe D-grade) horror genre matinee movie flicks. You know, the ones where the story doesn't really make a lot of sense but because you have a beautiful girl in it and good looking men you hope no one will really notice.

The problem is... this isn't a one off movie that you can cringe and face palm over and put it in the "so bad it's good" categories. It's a show that the majority of the watchers know intimately and therefore aren't going to hand wave some of the glaring inaccuracies. They are going to cringe and wonder... what the hell?!

I will say I went in really prepared for this one. I read a lot of reactions before I watched and therefore was prepared for it not being great. (In fact, I don't think I've read ANY positive reviews).

I didn't hate it though. In fact, there was enough in there that I enjoyed to make the episode watchable. I wasn't despairing like I did in some of those early episodes. I just think it was badly observed and written. As part of the so called "reset" we had to go through that moment again of Dean telling Sam he trusts him. I'm not even going to moan about that OR moan that Sam would even think that Dean doesn't trust him. It's all just stupid. It's completely ridiculous for Sam to think that Dean only trusts himself. Instead of getting annoyed about that I'm just going ignore that that even happened. Because...hello. Dean knows how capable Sam is. AND Dean trusts Sam with his life - every time they go out on a hunt they put their lives in the hands of the other. And Sam knows that. He does. So making him say those things to Dean was unnecessary. It was there (like much of the first part of the season) just to create tension for the sake of it.

I get that "trust" is an on going issue between them, but I see that issue being more about them lying to each other and not about them trusting how capable the other is. They lie to protect the other. They lie because they don't think the other will understand their motivation for doing something. They lie because they know how the other will react.

What I CAN completely understand is Dean being upset that he's not the one to do the trials. That makes a heap of sense. Doing something like that is exactly what Dean is all about. It would have given him a cause and a purpose and Dean is driven by those things. But instead of addressing that (or the fact that he would be terrified for Sam) they chose to take the direction that Dean doesn't trust that Sam is capable of the job. Utterly crazy and therefore completely ignorable. LALALALALA (and that goes for how stupid they made Dean look in the name of getting a few "laughs" or just to provide a reason to give the audience info. Dean would have known what a familiar is...etc.etc. Not going to harp on. LALALALALA)

It was also very curious that they addressed some history (like the monsters they let go- thank you) and yet didn't make a comment about having to sleep in a motel again (which...YAY motel!). I thought the first comment out of Dean's mouth would have been him missing his room, or the water pressure...or something. Of course the opening banter was awesome. More please!!


TBH I'm not sure what to say or where to put the whole bestiality, master/slave, thing. Seeing the guy chained to the bed I'm thinking...those guys have been reading waaay too much fanfic. I dunno. I have a pretty big master/slave kink so it would be hypocritical for me to be down on this. I just. Nah...I think that could have all been explored in a more positive way. Or something.

The MoTW stories usually parallel Sam and Dean's story so I was totally nodding along with the "soul mate" comparison. I have no idea if all that was there to provide that mirror, but it worked that way for me. (I was all over the idea that they could read each others thoughts. It totally seems like they can sometimes).


I did completely love the flashbacks. I think mostly because it tells me that the writers haven't forgotten what these boys have been through (even though we don't always see it in the writing). I honestly thought Sam's experiences with Lucifer had been forgotten. It's curious that they gave Dean a flashback of Mary dying. He wouldn't have seen that (I don't think) but I think that would more about the point of their painful past. I'm glad they gave us his Hell shot though.

And last but not least. Sam's obviously not ok and as much as I'm yelling (along with everyone else probably) TELL DEAN, I can understand why he isn't. See, that part of their characterisation makes sense to me. Sam has just got through convincing Dean he can do this and that it will be all right. For him to turn and say..."um, I'm coughing up blood man"..would just make Dean worry even more. And we KNOW Sam likes to protect Dean from that worry. This is where they have the trust issues. I would like to think the hypocrisy was deliberate. Sam complaining about Dean not trusting him and then not being trustworthy himself. So, I'm actually ok with that. As long as it doesn't become this major issue of contention between them. Dean would understand why Sam doesn't say anything. He'd do exactly the same thing (so please Show, don't make a big thing out of this). And Sam not being ok? Thank you. Just, you know...hurt!Sam and all...;)

Geek moment - the chairs in the motel were awesome!

I'm still excited. It was great to have them talking to each other (though entirely different conversations would have been better), it was good to get the flashbacks, it was lovely to hear the low rumble of the Impala and it was great to be reminded that Sam and Dean are soul mates.
Perhaps we can just put the rest down to homaging a bad matinee movie.

This ep, in many ways, reflects S8 so far I think. Uneven. Some great moments, some ok moments, some WHAT THE FUCK! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! moments and some...awwwwwww, I know why I love my Show moments.


(Also... do we know exactly why Dean hates witches so much? Did we ever get that history? Or is it just something he says every time they come across them? Maybe he has a phobia, like the one Sam has to clowns. Or something).

And for the record -

Dean specifically hates: rats, snakes, cats (?), dogs, witches...+?

Dean specifically loves: Sam, pie, his car, good water pressure, memory foam, burgers, slinkies, beer, whisky, sex, rock 'n roll, his weapons...+?

Comments

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey hun,

As always I love hearing your thoughts. I admit I didn't think further than...YOU'VE GOT IT WRONG SHOW for revisiting Sam believing that Dean doesn't trust him to do the job. If it's about Dean not trusting he can do the job and survive then maybe there's another (deeper) layer.

Though that scene is particularly complicated because it's Sam accusing Dean of only trusting himself because of issues Sam has. Sam is always seeking Dean's approval (or forgiveness, or acceptance) so he's showing his own needs in this argument as well. It's messy and maybe that's a good thing. I'd like to think the writers thought of that (but the episode doesn't inspire me to think so).

Though I think the real issue for Dean is that he needed to do these trials. Dean didn't pull Sam up on the trust thing and initially I wondered if this was because he was hiding the fact that he's just pissed off that it isn't him. But after we had the convo at the end the direction they are taking is more about him trusting Sam to do the job. Which is a bit of a shame I think.

I think the "trust" discussion is really interesting and because we have to basically take what they give us we have to make it work with what we have already been given and THEN make it work in the way we view the show.

I have a feeling that Carver has re-inserted the trust issue to keep the drama going. And I don't mind that IF it's handled decently and in context. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

And YES about the witches. That's makes sense to me. Why would anyone choose to be supernatural.

And you know, I think there are probably a heap more things that Dean officially loves. He must love movies because he quotes and refers to them all the time. :))

xxx

[maenad.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I'm sorry for just ... blathering all over your journal for a while there. :)

Though that scene is particularly complicated because it's Sam accusing Dean of only trusting himself because of issues Sam has. Sam is always seeking Dean's approval (or forgiveness, or acceptance) so he's showing his own needs in this argument as well. It's messy and maybe that's a good thing. I'd like to think the writers thought of that (but the episode doesn't inspire me to think so).

Well, that's the thing. I don't want to defend the episode too much, because I think it was mediocre. Even if the writers intended to put in layers, they're not good enough to do it well. Actually, while it wasn't as dull, I think they made many of the same mistakes they did in Route 666 - a chronic case of not thinking things through.

But the story's saving grace is that it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Attach it to the things Sam and Dean said to each other last week, and the thing changes. And I don't think the conversations in this episode were a total loss. Dean's primary concern is that Sam is okay - not hurt, not frightened - and his questions have a different tone to, say, the ones in season three where Dean was metaphorically poking Sam with a stick to see if he'd developed an evil streak. That does suggest that survival is his focus. And the reveal is that Sam is effectively sick - that is, might die no matter how clever and courageous he is.

And yeah, you're quite right about Sam. After all, he spent the whole first half of the season hearing a lot from Dean about how he couldn't trust him because of his choices, so naturally he's going to look at what Dean says in a certain light. The thing is, I'm trying to pretend the first half of the season never happened, so I'm basically giving Sam a free pass to be annoyed without dwelling too much on why he's annoyed. :)

Though I think the real issue for Dean is that he needed to do these trials. Dean didn't pull Sam up on the trust thing and initially I wondered if this was because he was hiding the fact that he's just pissed off that it isn't him. But after we had the convo at the end the direction they are taking is more about him trusting Sam to do the job. Which is a bit of a shame I think.

Oh, yes: as you say, Dean is a doer. And he's believed for ages that he's going to die in battle, so he keeps trying to do it. And does. It just doesn't stick. :)

That's why I think it's interesting that they included the vision of Dean in hell, screaming for Sam. It may not mean anything - probably doesn't, because these writers are sloppy - but I think it puts an interesting spin on things. Tessa once pointed out that at this point, Dean throws his life away because he knows it will come back. Purgatory pretty much cemented that view for Dean, because he walked out on his own. But hell is a reminder that once he was helpless and needed to be saved - and that didn't mean he couldn't save himself later. So maybe he needs to put his issues aside and let Sam have his chance to do the same.

Oh dear. I'm blathering again, aren't I? Sorry, done now. :)