Pondering the survivals and deaths of S8

[ash48]

I was thinking about the characters who survived season 8 and who we have going into season 9. I thought about the fact that Naomi, Meg, Sarah and (probably) Mrs Tran were killed and yet Castiel, Crowley, Garth, Kevin and Metatron survived.

Charlie, Jody and Krissy were the surviving female characters, with Martin and Samandiriel being the only recurring male characters to die (jury still out on whether Benny is actually dead dead).

I've never really held the belief that show killed off more women than men (especially after crunching the numbers a while back), but I gotta say I'm feeling the imbalance going into S9. I think more so because the surviving male characters are so strong (notably the long term recurring characters of Cas and Crowley).

Charlie, and possibly Abaddon, are the only major females still around for S9. Of course we may see others (Jody, Krissy), but Charlie and Abaddon are the only two recurring female characters we had this season who are still alive.

Examining the deaths we can see that Sarah's death was a plot device - to advance the tablet story line and to up the angst stakes for our heroes going into the finale (which in itself can be seen as problematic), but the deaths of Meg, Naomi and Mrs Tran did...well, nothing much really. Did they? I'm puzzled by Mrs Tran's death because we didn't see it. It could be that she isn't actually dead I suppose. Meg seemed to be brought back in order to kill her off and I can only think that they killed Naomi because they can see no use for her next season (or maybe Amanda has another gig?). Her death might have been significant if she had been the big bad (as it looked like), but her character seemed to be just getting interesting - in a multi faceted kind of way, when she was killed. Mrs Tran's death would certainly have been significant if they showed it because of her connection with Kevin and I think she was liked by fans.

Am I complaining? I'm not really sure. I'm puzzled mostly. I've always accepted that a lot of people die on this show. It's been part of this universe since the beginning and I came to terms with it early on. It just seems that because we have Castiel being added as a regular (much like Bobby was) along with Crowley, Kevin, Garth and now Metatron as recurring secondary characters it seems even more male heavy than previously.

I've always accepted it's a male heavy show (especially with two male leads) but I'm not sure why they seem to have such trouble creating and keeping good female characters.

I know they have to tread a fine line with the mostly female fandom and female characters. History shows that more often than not they are greeted with anger and even hatred (man, I remember the fuss over Ellen, Jo, Ruby and Bela when they were introduced). Those characters warmed to many over time, so much so that there was anger when they were killed. Charlie and Jody seem to prove that they CAN introduce female characters that are loved. Amelia and Becky certainly had a frosty reaction (to put it mildly...;D), but that's pretty much due to creating unlikable characters (subjective opinion of course).

I know I haven't actually made a point with all this. I'm not feeling ranty about it, it's mostly an observation. I suppose I would really love them to stop feeling that they can't have solid women in the show - and keep them.

The tally going into S9:

Men:

2 leads: Dean, Sam
1 regular: Castiel
4 recurring* secondary characters: Crowley, Garth, Kevin, Metatron

Possible returning characters: Benny, alpha!Vamp, Ben, Lucifer, Adam (ha!), Aaron (from Hitler ep)?

Women:

2 recurring secondary characters: Charlie, Abaddon (assuming the demon will take a female vessel)

Possible returning characters: Jody, Krissy, Amelia, Becky, Lisa, Kate (from Bitten)?

*based on appearing in more than a couple episodes

Comments

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I've always been open minded when new female characters are introduced. In fact, I was really excited about Amelia until I realised they forgot to actually give her a character.

Ellen and Jo's death had me blubbering like a baby! I'm glad they gave their deaths such significance though. Jo's return was particularly good also.

I was sad for Meg, especially as I can't exactly see why she had to die. At least they gave her a solid goodbye episode I suppose.

xx

[stir-of-echoes.livejournal.com]

I loved the significance of Jo and Ellen's deaths, totally agree and I still can't watch that episode without bawling my eyes out and I loved her return and how accepting she was, she was a hunter, a warrior and she died a warrior's death with no regrets or recrimination and it was such beautiful scene with her and Dean on the return episode. Gah! it gets to me even talking about it. Damn you, show for always managing to hit me with the feels.

But yes, I am just sad for Meg and for myself as a viewer because I really loved her character.

I wasn't sure how I felt about Amelia, I think she was the one and only I wasn't sure about and I'll be honest and admit that I think a little of that was down to her part in Sam not looking for Dean and not because of her character. So yes, I am totally guilty of that and I'll put my hands up to it. But I soon got over that and like you say realised she had very little character to latch on to and appreciate.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

she was a hunter, a warrior and she died a warrior's death with no regrets or recrimination

Yeah. They ended up creating a lovely character in Jo. And man, I remember when he first appeared. The uproar! ;)

I have lots of thoughts about Amelia, so I better not ramble here too much. But mostly I think she was a good idea, just poorly executed. I always think that if they created someone that we truly believed Sam had fallen in love with, we would have had a very powerful story. As it was, we (hee.., well me) spent most of the time trying to figure out if she was actually real.

I certainly didn't not like her because she was a love interest OR female. Mostly just a failed attempt to tell an important part of Sam's story.

[stir-of-echoes.livejournal.com]

I remember the uproar too, I never actually got why but I remember it.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with Amelia. If they had created someone that we truly believed Sam had fallen for they could have had something remarkable and I would have loved it but I too spent most of my time wondering if she were real, if Sam's flashbacks were real or imagined or some dream like thing and I was questioning every little aspect of it trying to pick reasons why it was or wasn't real. In the end it just didn't seem that remarkable a relationship to have Sam so tied in knots and walking away from everything. I also kept comparing the relationship to the one he had with Jess, not the characters just the relationship which was still unfair but we only saw a snippet of that relationship in the Pilot and I fell for it instantly and felt the loss even though I'd only known Jess and what Sam had with her for a few minutes. It was believable and I wanted it for him so much.

But yes, mostly I was questioning whether she was a reality or not.

[abrakadabrah.livejournal.com]

I think the one glaring reason she had to die was because otherwise she was the obvious candidate for "saving a demon" since she had become so humanized lately -- half saved already, as it were. And they wanted to go there with Crowley for the drama, not with Meg. Still. I regret her death a lot as well.

I think the women of fandom have to blame themselves to some extent for the dearth of females on the show -- given how much hate they are always greeted with -- I've never understood it in the least. And even worse, there's uproar when they appear -- and uproar in the opposite direction when they are killed off, and no admittance of agency.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh that's a really good reason for why they killed Meg. I can see that. Meg would have been the obvious choice if she was still around and wouldn't have had nearly the impact the scene had with Sam and Crowley. I can't believe I didn't think of that...

I think a lot of the way Ellen and Jo and then Bela and Ruby were introduced created a lot of the problems. I know that Jo as a love interest for Dean got a lot of people's backs up. But she was developed over the years and a good, strong character emerged.