9.13 Review recs (for those who aren't sick of reading about it!)

[ash48]

I want to share this great review of 9.13 at SpoilerTV: The Problems with Saving Each Other

It's an even handed and well observed look at the final scene (was there actually anything else in that ep? I seem to remember a tank top and a hair net…) and might actually make you believe Carver has a plan (ok, so it might not convince you, but I think there are some valid points). It also confirms my belief that he started this direction (but stumbled) in S8.

I'm still trying to get over the fans' reactions toward Sam. This review helped me understand it a bit better, but to be honest I am still left shaking my head. To not have a shred of sympathy for a character who has been through and suffered so much leaves me speechless. But. I don't want to rehash that. I know everyone has different views on the brothers - but I gotta say I never realised there was such a divide for some. I have no idea how anyone can actually watch the show with such a deep level of hatred for one of the main characters.

I thought this post by bittersweettwit on why Sam's behaviour isn't OOC is interesting too. I've seen some comments (not on my journal) that suggest that Sam must still be possessed, or have Lucifer still inside him to say something like that. O_o This is a good argument for why he is actually in character.

And fangasm has written an interesting and well constructed review that also looks at why fans have reacted so passionately about it - namely that we don't like change. I agree with much of it, but some I'm still pondering. I get that one of the reasons we love the show is because of the brothers unhealthy, messy, codependent relationship and we don't like the idea of that changing, but I for one would like to see them working toward a less destructive relationship full of positive love rather than the cycle of sacrifice and resurrections. The fact that they are addressing this now, could mean we are heading toward change. Personally, I think we can have a show about brothers who have a healthy(-er) relationship and it still be engaging and capture our hearts like it's done for years (or, you know…not ;D)

And if you're still feeling down or worried (or pissed) you've just gotta see the promo for 9.14. I'm pretty easy to please so just seeing the boys on the screen together makes me pretty damn happy (even when they are working through a rift). Shame we have to wait until the 25th to see it!

Comments

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

I have no idea how anyone can actually watch the show with such a deep level of hatred for one of the main characters.

Fandom has confused, angered and upset me so much I've decided to just watch show and ignore fandom for some considerable time.

I'm just here now because I need to tell you I've always admired your support for show and all sections of fandom and I'm proud to have you on my flist, still loving both brothers, both show and fandom and trying to see all sides.

Thanks for the link to the promo, hadn't realised show was on short hiatus.

**hugs you**

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

It's been interesting to me that a lot of the reaction from people who are a little less engaged has been very different from what we see coming out of the heart of the fandom. Like, this review from someone on my flist for whom Spn is just one among many shows she follows and reviews, with a couple of comments from people in a similar state of relative detachment (well, and me: if I'm anywhere close to detachment it's because of a not very peaceable and hopefully temporary "get me the fuck out of here" thing):

http://alethialia.livejournal.com/647767.html

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

By far the best and most accurate review of this episode.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*huuuuugs*

The amount of head shaking I've done over fandom this week has given me a headache! But I've mostly just thought "stuff you, I'm moving on* (except the one time that I didn't and decided to defriend someone - which I've NEVER done before - but I was so saddened by the level of aggression that I felt compelled).

And the promo looks like fun! (which I know can be deceiving :D), but after ALL the talk from the last ep it felt like the show would never be the same again. I felt like we'd never see them share the same space again. Instead we see that the show goes on and it might not be for another few eps that the elephant in the room is mentioned again. In the meantime….BOOOYYYSS! \o/

*smish* (Glad oyu popped by. After your last post I though you might be avoiding all things fandom…)
xx

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh thank you for that link! that is great.

With all the angst I missed this:

First off, just the idea that Sam checks in before he goes to bed is kind of adorable

It IS adorable. In fact, there was a lot to adore in this ep (like Sam telling Dean he has donut dust on his mouth <33).

I love reading the less, er, detached reviews. It actually gives you a chance to see how the episode (or scenes) is probably meant to be received. We view it with huge amounts of emotion but the casual viewer can say "oh I liked that they talked about that". AND THAT BE IT! (lucky them…)

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

I think it's natural for us to try and sympathize with the character that we feel the most attached to because that's usually the character we think we understand the best. That, of course, can lead to rather heated emotions (I still remember the fandom war between the Deangirls and the Casgirls after Cas beat Dean up in S5).

However, I think you need to be able to see the faults in even your most favorite character, or else you aren't really understanding them very well at all. Hating the ~opposite side because events shine a light on those faults is where people take a wrong turn into over-investment.

[chomaisky.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the recs, I'll definitely have a look at them.
These days I try very very hard not to let unfair Sam-bashing ruin my love for Dean, because, you know, the UNFAIR Sam-bashing is usually juxtaposed with this innocent(yes, and very innocent, "Sam how can you say that to your brother when he's sacrificed so much for you?! You have no heart!" kind of innocent), hurting image of Dean. I'm speaking from a gross experience which gave me a painful, sleepless night.

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

Aw thanks for the rec Ash *hug*

Interestingly enough I posted a link to it over on Twitter and Eric Charmelo (the writer of the episode favourited it). Of course it's most likely a case of him just seeing the title and being glad to see praise (especially since a certain hateful group of fans have been bashing his account non-stop) than a case of him actually reading it but it was still nice to see :)

[big-heart-june.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I wish I could watch in the detached way I watch my other shows too, it would mean a LOT less heartache. Thanks for the recs, and thank you also for always being so open-minded and non-judgemental and for your LOVE of show and both brothers always. It means so much ♥ I rarely comment here because I often feel overwhelmed and there are other people here that express themselves way better than I could ever do but I always read and love your thougtful insightful and fun reviews.

I have no idea how anyone can actually watch the show with such a deep level of hatred for one of the main characters.

This. I'll never understand it. it keeps me up at night.

Thanks again, bb, I'm very easy to please too! EXCITED for the next ep!

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

yes yes yes!

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

While I'm definitely not sick of reading thoughtful, analytical posts, as I want to understand both sides, I'm done with the vicious bashing (of Sam and Dean) that's been going on in public forums. IDK, maybe because I tend to stick with my smallish circle of bi-bros, Dean-friendly Samgirls and Sam-friendly Deangirls, I'm unaccustomed to behavior as venomous and hurtful as that which unfolded after 9.13.

I never realised there was such a divide for some. I have no idea how anyone can actually watch the show with such a deep level of hatred for one of the main characters.

Dear God, THIS. SPN is a show about two brothers. How do people like that even WATCH? Me, I'm never giving up on Show and my boys, but am definitely taking three giant steps back from fandom-in-general. (But not you, bb, never you.)

just seeing the boys on the screen together makes me pretty damn happy (even when they are working through a rift)

This times a million⁹⁹. Thanks again for all the links! ♥♥♥

*edited for html-fail :(

[stormcloude]

I'm pretty unhappy that Carver is changing their love which saved the world during the Kripke years into something bad and destructive that needs to be "matured." He can just fuck right off.

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Hee - no, don't consider 'you' fandom I'm ignoring - turning off comms, curing my curiosity over following links, finding old fics to read, keeping my head clear of it all is my cure.

"stuff you, I'm moving on* That sounds a good option too, I'll keep it in mind.

Oh and my pet theory that somewhere god is sitting on a 'reset' button that he hits every time we have a time travel episode, an alternate reality, Death appears, or Castiel re-animates, therefore what we're watching is not one whole single time line, but bits and pieces of all of them - it kind of makes my head spin enough to watch what we have now in the hope he hits the button again soon because - 'BEEEEP' - this one isn't quite working out either. Back to the drawing board...

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

Just to point out that it was also their love that made the world need to be saved in the first place in the Kripke years ;)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ha~! Yes, it was the Winchester love that kicked off this whole she-bang in the first place. Mary selling Sam to YED so John can live. It's a cycle that (I think) Sam is saying "enough" to.

So cool.

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

Indeed! I get that some fans don't want change but for me Sam's current change of heart is a natural character progression. There is only so many times one can follow a particular course of action see it cause a screw up before they say "Enough!".

Most fans I see criticising Sam's choice as OOC tend to refer to things like Mystery Spot which happened what seven years ago for Sam and Dean? People change ALOT in that length of time and so should characters on screen! Without change and progression in terms of their attitude to certain things then the show can not be treated any more seriously than say The Simpsons where Bart and Lisa are eternally stuck as eight and ten year olds lol.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Most fans I see criticising Sam's choice as OOC tend to refer to things like Mystery Spot which happened what seven years ago for Sam and Dean?

Yeah,and rather ironically it's a Carver episode. That showed Sam's emotional fallout and in the end Sam begged for Dean's life. I have no doubt he'd do that again. If Sam had a chance he'd die for Dean or protected him with his life. All he said is he wouldn't do what Dean did to bring Sam back from the dead. Stop the cycle of resurrections by making deals. He's learned first hard what the consequences of that are.

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

To me Mystery Spot is one of the darkest episodes of the verse especially it being deemed a 'comedy' episode. I still find the scene where Sam admits to being willing to sacrifice Bobby a friend and father figure on the 'chance' not even knowing for certain it is in fact the trickster positively chilling.

I know other fans have alot of love for those scenes and squee and I can respect to each their own, but yeah that was uncomfortable viewing on my part.

I do love scenes where the brothers are shown to care for each other and shown willing to die for one another. But sacrificing innocents is a step too far for me and at times makes it very hard for me to even consider the Winchester's heroes compared to say the likes of Buffy Summer's I'd say they're more anti-heroes.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

They do say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Sam and Dean (and Mary and John and even Samuel for Mary) making supernatural deals to save the others has only had bad results, for the world and for the ones they were trying to save. Mary saved John and John ended up a bitter, lonely paranoid hunter. Sam saved John and John sold his soul to save Dean. Dean sold his soul to save Sam and Sam ended up alone, desperate and vulnerable to Ruby.

Arguably when Sam chose the world over Dean it worked, at least until Cas decided to put Dean ahead of the world by saving Sam for him. For all Cas has called Sam his friend, I still think he did it for Dean. Then Dean saves Sam by bringing his soul out of the Cage and Sam ends up insane and hallucinating 24/7.

It's time for them to break this pattern. I just hope that this is the way the writers are heading.

[kazluvsbooks.livejournal.com]

I LOVE that you are still so much for the show as a whole..and that i am not alone in still feeling the joy of each new episode.

In my mind you can't love Dean without Sam and vice versa..that IS the show after all..

(((ash))

[growyourwings.livejournal.com]

Hey Ash - posted this this morning. You might appreciate it. :)

http://growyourwings.livejournal.com/874438.html

[ruby-jelly.livejournal.com]

Helloooooo :)
Read the first article you linked, and really liked this comment from:
"percysowner lala2

Except we've been here in season three with Doc Benton the Zombie Frankenstein. Sam found out about his immortality formula and begged Dean to use it to avoid Hell. Dean said no it was a line he wouldn't cross and Sam honored that. He didn't pull pages out of Doc Benton's journal and make up the formula when Dean wasn't looking. He didn't slip the formula into Dean's coffee on the sly. He didn't start taking notes on what kind of organ donor they would need when Dean's body began to fall apart. Sam threw the journal into the grave with Doc Benton and did what Dean wanted. Sam has ALREADY PASSED the "I will treat my brother like a human being who gets to make decisions about his life" test. So Sam has been in a very similar situation and made his peace with doing what Dean wants."

Don't know the guy, but agree with this. I missed all the apparent Sam hate, but I reckon he's reacting pretty truthfully, to life (as in, rl) their life, and his character.

...off to read some more :)

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

Damned. I didn't realize there is a mini hiatus and was looking forward to watching the new ep this morning. *sulky face* I watched the promo instead. Now it's even worse to wait until the 25. LOL ;D

You know I'm even tempered about the show and love it as a whole. So, yay for people who get the growing of the show (which goes along with the aging of the characters as well as the actors!!) and are able to embrace some change. Seeing Sam and Dean one day with their old age walking frames still acting like they did as boys feels just wrong to me. I mean I'm all for fans looking at things from different angles and that but this bashing and hating on characters makes me think some people need an outlet for issues that are not nescessarily rooted in the show. But, yeah.. each to their own.
Thanks for still being here with your squee and love for the show. It's good to know it's always safe to read your thoughts, even when you get upset about something.
And since I'm in a hugging mood, here it comes!! ((squiiiiidge)) :D

♥♥♥

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It's very cool isn't it!?!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*nods* vigorously.