9.13 Review recs (for those who aren't sick of reading about it!)

[ash48]

I want to share this great review of 9.13 at SpoilerTV: The Problems with Saving Each Other

It's an even handed and well observed look at the final scene (was there actually anything else in that ep? I seem to remember a tank top and a hair net…) and might actually make you believe Carver has a plan (ok, so it might not convince you, but I think there are some valid points). It also confirms my belief that he started this direction (but stumbled) in S8.

I'm still trying to get over the fans' reactions toward Sam. This review helped me understand it a bit better, but to be honest I am still left shaking my head. To not have a shred of sympathy for a character who has been through and suffered so much leaves me speechless. But. I don't want to rehash that. I know everyone has different views on the brothers - but I gotta say I never realised there was such a divide for some. I have no idea how anyone can actually watch the show with such a deep level of hatred for one of the main characters.

I thought this post by bittersweettwit on why Sam's behaviour isn't OOC is interesting too. I've seen some comments (not on my journal) that suggest that Sam must still be possessed, or have Lucifer still inside him to say something like that. O_o This is a good argument for why he is actually in character.

And fangasm has written an interesting and well constructed review that also looks at why fans have reacted so passionately about it - namely that we don't like change. I agree with much of it, but some I'm still pondering. I get that one of the reasons we love the show is because of the brothers unhealthy, messy, codependent relationship and we don't like the idea of that changing, but I for one would like to see them working toward a less destructive relationship full of positive love rather than the cycle of sacrifice and resurrections. The fact that they are addressing this now, could mean we are heading toward change. Personally, I think we can have a show about brothers who have a healthy(-er) relationship and it still be engaging and capture our hearts like it's done for years (or, you know…not ;D)

And if you're still feeling down or worried (or pissed) you've just gotta see the promo for 9.14. I'm pretty easy to please so just seeing the boys on the screen together makes me pretty damn happy (even when they are working through a rift). Shame we have to wait until the 25th to see it!

Comments

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

Indeed! I get that some fans don't want change but for me Sam's current change of heart is a natural character progression. There is only so many times one can follow a particular course of action see it cause a screw up before they say "Enough!".

Most fans I see criticising Sam's choice as OOC tend to refer to things like Mystery Spot which happened what seven years ago for Sam and Dean? People change ALOT in that length of time and so should characters on screen! Without change and progression in terms of their attitude to certain things then the show can not be treated any more seriously than say The Simpsons where Bart and Lisa are eternally stuck as eight and ten year olds lol.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Most fans I see criticising Sam's choice as OOC tend to refer to things like Mystery Spot which happened what seven years ago for Sam and Dean?

Yeah,and rather ironically it's a Carver episode. That showed Sam's emotional fallout and in the end Sam begged for Dean's life. I have no doubt he'd do that again. If Sam had a chance he'd die for Dean or protected him with his life. All he said is he wouldn't do what Dean did to bring Sam back from the dead. Stop the cycle of resurrections by making deals. He's learned first hard what the consequences of that are.

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

To me Mystery Spot is one of the darkest episodes of the verse especially it being deemed a 'comedy' episode. I still find the scene where Sam admits to being willing to sacrifice Bobby a friend and father figure on the 'chance' not even knowing for certain it is in fact the trickster positively chilling.

I know other fans have alot of love for those scenes and squee and I can respect to each their own, but yeah that was uncomfortable viewing on my part.

I do love scenes where the brothers are shown to care for each other and shown willing to die for one another. But sacrificing innocents is a step too far for me and at times makes it very hard for me to even consider the Winchester's heroes compared to say the likes of Buffy Summer's I'd say they're more anti-heroes.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

They do say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Sam and Dean (and Mary and John and even Samuel for Mary) making supernatural deals to save the others has only had bad results, for the world and for the ones they were trying to save. Mary saved John and John ended up a bitter, lonely paranoid hunter. Sam saved John and John sold his soul to save Dean. Dean sold his soul to save Sam and Sam ended up alone, desperate and vulnerable to Ruby.

Arguably when Sam chose the world over Dean it worked, at least until Cas decided to put Dean ahead of the world by saving Sam for him. For all Cas has called Sam his friend, I still think he did it for Dean. Then Dean saves Sam by bringing his soul out of the Cage and Sam ends up insane and hallucinating 24/7.

It's time for them to break this pattern. I just hope that this is the way the writers are heading.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I just hope that this is the way the writers are heading.

I admit that this is something that is worrying be a little. That they do have a direction in mind but because of the current back lash they won't see it through. OR they decide that this is actually about Sam "appreciating" Dean and accepting that actually he can do what ever he likes to Sam because he's family after all (and dammit he's a live so he should be thankful). If they are not going in the direction it looks like they are (actually talking about this cycle of sacrifice and putting not only each other lives but others on the line in order to still be alive) then I think I'll be very disappointed. I'm squeeful because this is a major issue and hits at the very heart of this 'verse. I just hope Carver doesn't wimp out. That said - I still want an good, solid, resolution full of bro love and understanding. I hope I'm not expecting too much…;)

[casey28.livejournal.com]

OR they decide that this is actually about Sam "appreciating" Dean and accepting that actually he can do what ever he likes to Sam because he's family after all (and dammit he's a live so he should be thankful).

That's the problem, at this point there is no appreciation that his life was saved. He's rejected being "family" and being "brothers". He's rejected everything that was said in the church in 8.23. He wishes he had died. How is that a good thing? I'm trying to understand what the point of this would be... should Dean apologize to Sam, say he wishes he had let Sam die?

If Sam had a chance he'd die for Dean or protected him with his life. All he said is he wouldn't do what Dean did to bring Sam back from the dead. Stop the cycle of resurrections by making deals. He's learned first hard what the consequences of that are.

Not all deals have bad consequences... Death getting Sam's soul out of the Cage didn't. Yes, there was the wall (which may have stayed up, if Cas hadn't broken it), but the alternative was worse... Sam suffering in hell for all eternity. The point was to give Sam a chance to live, to not have to suffer like that.

[bittersweettwit.livejournal.com]

Mary saved John and John ended up a bitter, lonely paranoid hunter. Sam saved John and John sold his soul to save Dean. Dean sold his soul to save Sam and Sam ended up alone, desperate and vulnerable to Ruby.

I never actually thought about the deals John and Mary made mostly focused on the negative effects of the deals the brothers have made but those are excellent points :). As Ash said hopefully the writers will continue on this course rather than wimp out. But then with their insistence on portraying Sam in the worst light possible I still fear that Dean and his inability to move on from this vicious cycle is going to be the one proven 'right' in the end *sigh*.