So ya know...

[ash48]

I'm not going to be writing up a reaction or review of 10.12. In fact, it's unlikely I'll be writing them any more. I feel I only want to complain these days and that's not fair on anyone (though I'm thinking of writing up some general stuff - mostly to help me try and work why I'm feeling just over it all).

I am still curious about what every one thought so I'll still do the polls (if you're all still happy to fill them out *g*).

[Poll #1998102]

Comments

[chomaisky.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

<3

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

*hugs* <3. my grade is an F for everything. this series is going down the toilet. at 1st, my grade was a D, then i thought on it and remembered the last scene was stupid and then changed it :(. this show with my name initials is going down the toilet. *hugs you again* <3. i did enjoy the ep, til the pretty lamp.. i mean Sam got knocked out again, and the ending scene killed my enjoyment all together

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Strangely, I really enjoyed the episode. I even re-watched it (so I could admire Dylan's performance all over again). I just figure that after an episode that showcases they brothers' relationship and I STILL feel empty, then it probably means it's fading for me. My discontent is complex I think (in terms of why I'm so annoyed at the show), so I'm thinking it might be time for a little break from trying to find deep layers that just don't exist anymore).

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Just saw your ETA. And that was the clincher for me too. Dean sacrificing himself for Sam (again) and Sam having to say thank you (again). It's always been a part of their relationship I've enjoyed but it is SO one side now I just can't enjoy it any more. Anyway, I won't start ranting (because once I start, I may not stop.../o\).

[fanspired]

That bugged me, too, though like you I enjoyed the ep, mostly for Dylan's performance. But, yeah, it grated that even in the body of a 14 year old Dean was still supposed to be the strong one who swoops in to save the day. Sam should have been able to take out Hansel with one punch. How come 14 year old Dean, who was thrown around just as much, recovered faster? They really didn't sell it that Sam was too injured to get up and get back in the fight. It looked like he was just lying there watching the show because he was too lame to try. It makes you wonder if show thinks that what he really is, or what the majority of fans want him to be. But it's beyond credibility that a man of Sam's stature is so easily bested time and time again.

[fanspired]

Tbh, if it weren't for the serial I'm writing, I wouldn't be watching the show any more but, so long as my readers are, I feel I have to be in touch with what's going on there. But it's been several seasons now since I've regarded show as canon. In order to remain philosophical about it, I find it helps to regard it as professional fanfiction - of variable standard, some goodish some bad some indifferent. Glass is actually one of the better writers, I think, but that's only measured by the standard of what we've got left. The trouble is, they lost my willing suspension of disbelief a long time ago, and once that's gone I think it's next to impossible to get it back. After that, all you can see is holes.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't get it. I think maybe it's just one of the "points" about Sam. He constantly needs saving. It seemed like a great opportunity for Sam to save Dean this time considering his diminished stature (and to show Dean that he is capable of saving him). But they just don't want to go down that route for some reason. I figure it's so Dean can realise that he is capable of being strong and winning the day no matter how small he is - ya know so he is reminded he can fight this. And to show us that Sam needs Dean to be Dean.

(It would have been really interesting if Sam was "forced" to return Dean to normal size (to save him) and then felt bad until Dean said "you did the right thing, I can fight this as I am….). My expectations were just far too high for this one.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That's me now. It upsets be greatly (real tears last night.../o\) because I LOVED my disbelief being suspended. I loved believing they had a plan. I loved thinking this universe was solid and meant something. I saw through it all in that episode and it kind of killed me. But. At the same time, I think it might be a good thing. By not doing the reactions anymore I might stop watching it trying to find layers and connecting threads.

For me the fact that they don't seem to have anyone who can write Sam left on staff is just so depressing. We've had 12 episodes and not one examining Sam - even when there's been opportunities to do so.

[kazluvsbooks.livejournal.com]

wow, i LOVED the ep, the acting was nop notch, i laughed out loud a lot.

I was happy that Sam got a BAMF moment in the bar and a speech at the end.

Jared was BRILLIANT working off teen Dean, you would swear that he was really talking to Dean.Mini Dean was so good,fantastic chemistry with Sam.

My only minor niggle was that Hansel and Gretel didn't really do it for me but everything else was awesome, including the end.

[cherry916.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed Dylan's performance of Dean, I think this is what saved the episode for me.

However, I just feel annoyed that Dean had to save the day and Sam had to say thank you for it. It's not enough that during Dean's storyline of MOC we are getting episode after episode of Sam being supportive and showing Dean's feelings and emotions (I mean where was that when Sam was on demon blood? but hey that's in the past.) Would it kill the writers to show Sam's POV once? I know what he says about the MOC but I want to see how he feels about it.

And was I the only one holding out hope to see a little!Sam? I mean if Sam had to be saved seeing an itty bitty Sam would be logical right?

I stopped writing reviews a long time ago too. They felt too much like a chore rather than fun to me.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

yay! So happy you loved it hun!

I adored Dylan's performance. He got Dean perfectly. And he and Jared really worked well together.

(My niggles are long term, deeply entrenched ones now. Nothing to do specifically with that episode. In fact, it's one of the few this season I've re-watched almost immediately just so I could watch the boys together…*g*).

[fanspired]

At the end of the day, I think it comes down to economics. The coveted demographic is the 18-30 bracket so that's who they're marketing the show to. And I get the impression that the majority of the younger audience is a/ all about Dean (and the naive ideal of heroism they think he represents) and b/ mostly indifferent about layers. Sadly, the needs of the show's original core audience of middle aged women are no longer relevant.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Would it kill the writers to show Sam's POV once?

I actually think it would. They've avoided it for nearly 3 years now so yep, I reckon they must feel they'd DIE if they actually gave us a moment of Sam ;D).

Dean's storyline of MOC we are getting episode after episode of Sam being supportive and showing Dean's feelings and emotions

I love supportive Sam but that's ALL he's done so far. I think he's told Dean "you can beat this" in the last 3 episodes. I feel like shouting…we know!

And was I the only one holding out hope to see a little!Sam?

OMG! How awesome that would have been?! Surprise wee!Sam. Young Dean and Sam together would have been all sorts of fun? But I was spoiled for that NOT happening so I didn't expect it. I did think Sam would have more to do, but I seriously have to resign myself to the fact that until Sam does something "bad" to (try) and save Dean, he's just gonna do nothing (speculation, but I think that's where it's heading. Full circle).

They felt too much like a chore rather than fun to me.

I love doing them. I love chatting about the show but I feel like all I'm doing these days is complain. So many people loved this episode (and I can understand why!) and I feel like I'm out of step. I just can't seem to get excited about what everyone else is getting excited about.

[gidgetgal9.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed it and the things that bugged me I was able to let go because overall I liked it so much.

But I feel ya. I went through those feelings with Smallville in Season 9 and had to let it go for awhile. I watched the first few episodes and stopped. But then, I came back S10 and loved every minute. Maybe a break is what you need? :)

[zubeneschamali.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about damsel-in-distress!Sam and the way he's effectively erased from the critical fight scenes for the last, oh, year and a half, and I wonder if part of it isn't gender-related. Sam is often portrayed as the feminine one (Samantha, being into books and studying, preferring emotional connections to picking up a chick in a bar, etc.), and one of the pleasures of this show has always been the two brothers being equal in smarts and strength and agency. When that equality is eroded, making Sam the helpless "woman" who has to be rescued by Dean (or by Gadreel, last season), might we resent it more because as women, we were enjoying watching a relationship between equals?

IDK, just a thought. I also wanted to say that it's totally understandable for you to take a step back. I wasn't as upset as other people with the ep because I'm no longer surprised at how the writers treat Sam. Sad, yes, but I guess I've come to expect it and so will concentrate on the good parts, like how frickin' awesome Dylan Everett was on his own and with Jared.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

True that. And sad. But yes. Good point. The show doesn't really cater to me so it's not really surprising it's not doing it for me like it used to. I'm not the CWs targeted demographic, so I shouldn't really complain I suppose.

(and it's Dean's heroism that I seemed to be having the most trouble with lately. I am struggling with the fact that the show is going to a lot of trouble to have Dean address his past wrongs by giving him a journey to go through. A journey that will help him feel better about himself (and maybe address all that self loathing) but at no point will the effects of what he's done ever be addressed (because they essentially don't exist because we never get to see the damage. As far as we know Sam's possession had no effect on Sam).

[ash48.livejournal.com]

The small things that bugged me I could easily over look (like it was so weird that one minute Sam was bashing a guy's head on a bar being so anxious about Dean and the next he was looking so very relaxed searching through websites…*handwaves*). It's the overall bigger picture that they refuse to address - essentially because it no longer exists) that worn me down.

I'll still watch. Always! But I'm going to take a break from the complaining (and hopefully disappointment).

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi. It's an interesting point. I really can't work it out. It's like they fear that if Sam is instrumental in those fight scenes (or has moments any other character) it will some how detract from Dean. I think Sam's "need" to be rescued is tied into Dean's heroism. There are times I love it, but man - it's becoming so repetitive.

might we resent it more because as women, we were enjoying watching a relationship between equals?

I certainly know I enjoy watching them as equals. :) Not sure if that's because I'm a women or just because the one sided story telling is getting a bit tedious to me.

I wasn't as upset as other people with the ep

Oh, other people were upset with it? I felt like I was the only one (and actually, I enjoyed it. Like last week's episode. They're fine, but I'm just not feeling them like I used to). I've mostly seen squee (which is great!) so I've been really feeling out of step…)

[fanspired]

The thing that still pisses me off about the show post season 5 is the number of times we've seen potentially interesting story development abandoned, presumably because it didn't sit well with the target demographic. I still think s7 was trying to adress important points about loss, identity, perception, reality and mental illness, but in the end all that was abandoned in favour of a lame dungeons and dragons denouement. Similarly s9 started telling a story about violated consent, denied personal autonomy and gaslighting but that was abandoned too. In the early part of the season it seemed clear to me that Ezekiel was going to turn out to be an outright villain. The subplot of the pilot episode clearly implied that he needed Sam's vessel to survive, and that he was healing himself by feeding off of Sam's soul. If they'd had the courage of their convictions they could have had a great story that really demonstrated the consequences of Dean's actions and forced him to confront the reality that what he did was not heroism but violation: if Metatron's spell had the effect of returning all the angels to Earth, Sam's possessor might easily have turned out to be Lucifer. But, instead, he turns out to be the poor misguided dupe, Gadreel, and Sam absolves him of having had any harmful intent. What a lost opportunity.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Funnily enough, I know how you feel. I enjoyed this episode enormously but when it was over, there wasn't really much I wanted to say. I'm supposed to be writing an episode reaction fic, and I can't think of a hook. I'm actually relying on other people's reaction posts to help ME react.

So damn, I'm going to miss your reaction posts! (And I don't think you were moaning at all btw).

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Now that would have been an awesome plot twist - I'd have cheered out loud if they'd done that. And it would have been quite simple to do in terms of action - but the ramifications would have given us so much more depth.

Damn.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Thanks hun. These days I feel like I just can't add…SQUEEEEEE! like I used to. It wouldn't take me much for it all to be alright again but as that's actually never going to happen I think it's best to stop writing stuff just to moan…;)

The ep had such a lot going for it. The performances we great and the idea was fun. I keep telling myself if an ep like this doesn't get me excited then there's gotta be something wrong…(with me).

Good luck with the hook! (if you loved it go with that! For me it just needed Dean somehow understanding Sam just that little bit more. I seriously don't think it's even a consideration in the 'verse at the moment. But that moment when Dean "gets" Sam will be the day the show changes for me. Instead, I know we are heading for Sam "getting" Dean (which is such a used theme now I'm kinda just over it all…D:)

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

You should been on Twitter. Lots of screaming and carrying on.

I've enjoyed it more on rewatch, plus I can see more of Sam's being part of the action. Except for the mandatory knocked down/helpless part, he tackles Hansel and is fighting until the witch throws him against the wall in the usual fashion. It's easy to miss on first watch. He's very protective of Dean throughout the episode, in an active way rather than a passive way.

[winsangel.livejournal.com]

I understand your frustration on wanting to continue your reaction posts. It's gotten to a point where we look deeper for something and it's never there so we aren't really satisfied, like a thirst that can't be quenched. I feel like I'm dying sometimes wanting that sip that will keep me going!

Don't get me started on Sam continuing to be sidelined, makes me see red.

I wasn't happy with the song choice at the end. It may have been a joke but after that great scene the boys had at the bus station, I wanted something classic rock angsty for their drive away. Adam Glass mentioned on twitter his son was part of this episode thought process, maybe it was the son's idea for the song reference and using it IDK. We can't get Zepp on the show but we can get Taylor Swift? Um, wtf?! That couldn't have been cheap.

Episodes are less scary than ever, maybe it's to keep the younger viewers tuning in and not be sent to bed early by their parents. They aren't the demographic so I'm reaching now for something to explain it. I'm drawing a blank tbh.

I always read your posts and the comments from other fans for other points of view even if I don't comment. I love your thinky thoughts on things that are relevant that I may not have thought about. If taking a break is what you need, I say do it for your own sanity <3