10.23 reaction / a few thoughts

[ash48]

I don't have my laptop (or access to a computer) so just flying by with a few thoughts on the episodes. The poll will have to wait until I return home (after the con \o/)



I don't want to harsh anyone's squee so I'm not going to list the issues I had with it. I will say, that I'm very relieved that I wasn't sobbing wreck by the end (which I was prepared for). Instead I felt a certain amount of relief. Relief that it looks like the MoC story is over and the boys are back to normal and their relationship seems to have been healed somewhat. It looks like they've been fully "reset" which means I'm not nervous about next season (yet). It mostly looks like they're in whatever they're in together - which is something that hasn't happened for - well, ever? (Will have to ponder thst some more...maybe when the demons were released from hell?).

The biggest thing I've come away with is that it's just easier not to think too hard about the show any more. It cemented that there aren't really any through-lines or season by season character journey arcs, so there's no point looking for that any more. Season endings (esp last two) are about giving us the epic bromance moment (not complaining!!!) and having that as a bandaid for anything that's been said and done previously between them. I seriously need to stop expecting it to be any more than that by now.

I loved the intensity of the scene between the brothers at the end. I did have a little tear with Sam's pleading eyes (and thinking about Jared at the moment) and just thinking that he's been hurt and used so much, that it seemed like a fitting ending if Dean did actually kill him. *sob*.

I have a few questions, but one really burning one: I don't fully understarnd what happen to dean. One minute he's a murdering badass and utter dick, then he looks in the mirror and sees the 2 people he's hurt (not going to deny I would have loved him to flash back to the way he hurt Sam at the funeral), and he then is able to fight the mark enough to call death? Did he regain control of the mark again then? But then when Death was there he said some more horrid things to Sam (seriously, if that had been Sam he would have been slaughter by fandom by now!) and it looked like the mark had taken grip again. THEN he gained control (after Sam's undying love and devotion was made SUPER DUPER clear). So yeah, I lost the thread there. I think Dean was fighting it, and failing sometimes but not all the time. And why does Dean (Carver) continue to blame things on Sam - refusing death his soul and not shutting the gates of hell for two... And does Dean really think Sam is selfish? Still? Or is that just payback for Sam saying it to him (*oops* there I go, trying to make sense of it all..).

I said in a review recently thst 'I want the boys to burn the world for each other". Looks like they have!! If they're going to show us their unwavering co-dependency I'm glad they're showing us the potential world ending result of it. Will the boys ever see the destruction of it? Clearly no, because they wouldn't be able to give us finales like that. Also, I don't think they're meant to. They've tried, many times, but it always comes back to the two of them destroying, then mending the world. All because of their massive love, needs and faith in each other. Is it right? Ha! Clearly no, but man, who cares. This is fantasy. And what ultimately draws me to the show.

I am glad Sam didn't fail, I am glad we have the brothers back on the same page (I think! I thought that after s4, then we had a season of Dean not trusting Sam and it was a very dark season. Oh man, will they do that? Will Dean STILL be hating on Sam for unleashing the spell...ok, now I might have a reason to cry. I'm am too tired of the contrived issues between then. And I am sick of dean's hypocrisy. If they take dean and Sam down that repeated route....*stops*. No speculating).

And now I'm curious to see how they get out of this one! (Though looks like s mix of leviathans and demons when they were realised on the world). Love it to be really, really dark - but I can't see how when they're a bit restricted by their format and budget. But still, new big bad (along with Rowena and possible the Stynes). Plenty to see them through s11 I'd think. :).

I hope to write up more about s10 generally, but as I think there's no real connection between episodes or past events it's possibly not going to happen. And that's ok because I think it might just be all easier to watch episode by episode, moment by moment.

Let's just hope Sam get a new hair style. Is that too much to hope for?!

I'd love to hear your thoughts but I may not be able to respond for a while. I'm with my family and then the con. Xx

Comments

[ayane42.livejournal.com]

yay for the con!!!!!

yeah i run into people all the time that have binged watched Supernatural on Netflix and they love it!!!!

I did enjoy the finale. Like what are they going to do about the "Darkness"? eeeeek!!! but i saw a lot of plot holes? questions i had? they changed how the Mark came about?

but overall i enjoyed it!!

have a great time at the con!!!!! ooh oooh i follow you on twitter!!! take pictures!!!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'm a bit confused about the whole mark thing tbh. I'll have to go back and listen to what Death said and then what Cain had said to see what I missed. I'm trying to *handwave* most of it as I can't figure out how some of it fits. I'm not sure it matters in the end (bit like the whole shutting the gates of hell story line), it pretty much came down to love saving each other. :)

And thanks! I'll try and take pics and post. I'm not close, so I probably won't get anything good (but I'll tweet what I can. *G*).

[ayane42.livejournal.com]

but hey you know what will make you smile? the Supernatural Parody!! it's just like wow!!!! i've watched it 10 times and smiled and laughed and felt better all around!!

(if you haven't see it yet)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCZy8cAgBlM

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I've seen it and I love it!! So happy making. Adore the cast dancing at the end. No matter what I think of the show at times the dedication and joy from this cast and crew is simply wonderful. It also shone through in the episode.

My fave bit? Chains slow mo hair moment. I was laughing out loud!!!

Who are those girls I wonder? It was a professional job, so assuming industry peeps. It was just what was needed after the ep!! Happiness!!

[thursdaysisters.livejournal.com]

Yeah, for the first time the mid season episodes were stronger than the ending ones (still drooling over Cain and that Werther Project Men of Letters flashback), but I'm glad we still have Rowena, who's a fantastic actress.

As for season 11...we've got a summer of fanwork until then, I personally am looking forward to what everyone is creating during hellatus :-D

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

This hellatus will be CHOCK FULL of fanworks! (I'm really happy about this and can't wait for all the goodies!)

[amypond45.livejournal.com]

Yes! Looking forward to all the fanworks! And so glad Rowena will be back in Season 11 too!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

True! The fan works should be awesome! So many possibilities they left us with. :). And yes, I think The Werther Project was much stronger structurally. This one had some strong moments but I found myself just urging everything forward so I could see what was going to happen between Sam and Dean. I did like seeing Cas with bloodied eyes - even though he won't kill Crowley, it left me wondering what will happen there.

[sothcweden.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my reaction was just disappointment, not fury, which I think means it's time to be a fan of the fandom and the cast, and a casual viewer of the show.

Okay, there was *some* fury at Dean's completely unnecessary "dressed like a whore" comment.

ETA: added two words for clarity

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the slut comment was a shock. Probably there for just that, but it seems that they're not that interested in challenging these stereotypes. I know Berens would never have written that.

I've been much happier with the episode because of fandom. I came off it confused and a little disappointed (that they didn't really push the boundaries), but I am now happier that at least Sam didn't end as "the baddy" and Dean having a reason to be pissed with him next season (hopefully!). They both had a hand in what happened so neither have cause for "its your fault".

[winsangel.livejournal.com]

Did he regain control of the mark again then? But then when Death was there he said some more horrid things to Sam...

I think Dean was fighting it, and failing sometimes but not all the time.

I've been thinking about this today, too. It seemed to me that Dean set it up to summon Death and then call Sam to come to where they were so he could continue to bait Death into thinking he'd actually kill Sam. He kept saying horrible things to Sam to try and antagonize him further so he'd be mad enough to fight, to make the "show" for Death even more believable? But then Sam brought out the pictures (and I sniffled because Sam on his knees and Dean's "Sammy, close your eyes") it seemed to be a SS moment to bring Dean back to his senses. IDK it was a weird scene, most definitely, but it certainly worked to fool Death.

It was sort of a contrived way to get the boys back on the same page and show they'd do anything for each other, and thank the stars the mark is gone, but this is Carver we're talking about lol.

So, either it was a legitimate set up by Dean or Carver just jumbled his way through it. I want to think it was the latter.

Jensen has said he wants the boys working together again as brothers/hunters/just plain humans doing what they do best so I'm hoping Carver *finally* gives us that in S11.

Hope you have a fantastic time at AHBL6 this weekend!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I wondered if Dean was setting up Death, but then I couldn't figure out why he would do that - unless he changed his mind once he appeared. I felt like he was actually prepared to kill Sam, but just couldn't do it when Sam brought out those big puppy eyes. But yeah, I really don't know. I'm not sure Jensen was clear on it either maybe? MoC!Dean or normal Dean. (If I had the courage I'd ask him during the con, but I doubt I'd be able to ask...). Maybe someone else will.

But glad mark is gone and hopefully all the issues between them take a back seat and they fight stuff together now. :)

[amypond45.livejournal.com]

I got up at 4:15 to watch it this morning on Hulu and for me the entire thing was showing us (finally!) why Dean needed to be saved. I just hadn't seen it before, even when he killed that Styne kid (who had just eviscerated an obnoxious but otherwise pretty innocent bully) I couldn't SEE what Sam and Cas and Charlie were risking their lives for. I mean, I guess we knew because we had Cain as an example of what Dean could become, but Demon!Dean was such a sad, lonely man, and supposedly "getting worse" Dean just wasn't, as far as I could see (most of the people he killed were seriously bad people, so it was hard to be too concerned...) Sam's devotion and desperation were perfect, but it felt like Dean's lack of real badness worked against Sam's (wonderful!) obsessive need to save his brother, so that's my main gripe about the entire season, I guess.

That said, OMG I loved this episode. All the angst and desperation, both from Sam and Dean, and that incredible scene in the Mexican restaurant -- with the Day of the Dead mural -- all so macabre and intense and perfectly played by both Js! And the MoC is gone! Yay! And Sam really did the saving, so I'm good :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

(just replied to you recent comment and now I'm replying to this older one. Sorry for the delay…).

I agree that it was finally great to see what Dean was becoming. They kept saying "dean is getting worse" but we weren't really seeing a lot more than that we sometimes see from the normal Dean. I think his comments about the dead woman and the way he reacted to the grieving parents were a clear indication of what he was becoming. It wasn't JUST about his violence, but also his utter disregard for anyone. We could see the danger he was going to be to everyone - he was losing so much of himself.

The scene in the Mexican restaurant was powerful. The js really gave it everything.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

The biggest thing I've come away with is that it's just easier not to think too hard about the show any more.

Ditto. I mean, we read SO much into it sometimes, and bring so much of our own baggage ... I've discovered it's a no-win proposition. Two things have made this season more enjoyable for me: 1.) not thinking so hard and 2.) staying clear of spoilers! It's tough, but man, has it made watching the show so much more pleasant.

Gotta couple observations about the finale, though.

Jensen has been playing Dean's fury with cold calculation. It flares out in waves of destruction, but it isn't chaotic. I've actually kinda enjoyed it, in an iddy "Oh, god, I shouldn't find this so hot" sorta way. Would I have liked to have seen a little more crazy, out-of-control-ness? Yeah, it might've rang a little more true, but hey, I ain't complaining too hard about the pretty.

And does Dean really think Sam is selfish? Still? Yes, because one of Dean's core characteristics is his hypocrisy. He KNOWS it. "Don't quote me to me!" But also, hey, he's not exactly wrong either. Sam is doggedly clinging to "saving Dean" because he can't bear to fail again. Sam, of all people, understands sacrifice for the greater good, but he came to the realization this year that he cannot live without Dean. So yeah, it's a little selfish. But Dean is faaaar from innocent by these same standards. As unhealthy as it is, they are obsessively tied to each other. Deliciously, steadfastly, obsessively, endlessly tied to each other. It's sick, and it's beautiful. And it may just bring the world crashing down around them.

But you know what?

I LIKE IT THAT WAY.

When Dean told Sam to close his eyes, I turned to goo. Sam--beaten, surrendering, tears and blood on his lovely, lovely face--refusing to believe Dean is anything but a good man? No matter what? That right there is insane but so very delicious. And perfect, in my eyes. Because yeah, this is make-believe. I don't want it to be reasonable and logical and balanced. IRL, it'd be horrific. But in fiction? It's hella hot. Not sorry at all. Not even a little.


PS...maybe we can Tulpa some better hair for Sammy, eh? :D

[thursdaysisters.livejournal.com]

As much as our expectations fluctuate with a low-budget show that's run for ten years and punches out one episode every eight days, it remains one of my favorites because nowhere else will you find that raw, tender friendship between two men in their mid-30's on TV <3

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

I like the fact that they both screwed the world this time.... equal opportunity Armageddon.

Dean killed off Death (lol, only this show), Sam made the big, bad spell happen (actually still pretty unclear about that, but that is likely due to my lackadaisical viewing), and together our boys unleashed the Big Bad - to me it a dark mirror of the angels falling a couple seasons ago - one of the prettiest special effects. And it was creepy. I do love what this show does with the small budget it has.

Sam's expression reminded me so much of his face when he unloosed Lucifer way back when (now, that was a cliffhanger....wow, remember how powerful and terrifying and intense that finale felt?

But you know, we have to give credit where it's due....our little show really is doing fairly well after ten seasons. So much of "prestige" television consists of 6 episode seasons, sometimes aired years apart. Our show keeps on telling us stories, year after year after year. Our poor Jared is testament to that. To me, it's kind of a miracle that our show is still as good as it is. I think it's okay to enjoy it for what it is, and there's an awful lot I still enjoy.

If you feel like the best is behind us fandom-wise (and of course, it probably is, but realistically how could it not be?), just re-watch that 200th episode again, smile at the songs and the sweetness and the the genuine genius of this cast and crew, and who knows? Show may just surprise us again.

Have so much fun at your convention! (((hugs)))

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I like the fact that they both screwed the world this time.... equal opportunity Armageddon.

That's what I loved! I am SO glad they didn't just make Sam the one who screwed up things (though, I've seen posts stating that it IS all Sam's fault because his spell let the darkness loose. I've decided that there are some who will always blame Sam, so I gotta just let it go…). Dean killing Death has GOT to have some major repercussions and it felt like it contributed to the finale resulting darkness. I enjoyed the intensity of the final scene between the boys.

And I agree - the show does a remarkable job considering their budget. I get frustrated with their lack of continuity in the story telling, but I'm trying to let it go because there's still so much I love about it.

xx

[fiercelynormal.livejournal.com]

Definitely not my favorite finale, but Jared knocked it out of the park, and Jensen did great with what he was given - I'm agreeing with you on how Dean's characterization was a little odd. But we got boys fighting for each other, and the MoC gone, so I'm good with it.

I really feel like this sets us up to have exactly what Jensen talked about wanting at a recent con - the boys fighting TOGETHER against an external force, trying to do good. That's the show to me, and I feel like we're going in that direction and that excites me!

Also, yes, please god let Jared get a new haircut over hiatus that carries on into s11 #SayNoToBob.

[thursdaysisters.livejournal.com]

Yes, in many ways I look forward to the next season more than I did when demon!Dean opened his eyes, because, cool storytelling aside, the best s10 episodes were the ones where everyone worked together against an outside force (unf Executioners Song).

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

Enjoy your special weekend! :D

I did enjoy this ep and was completely unspoiled for it and without expectations. I don't think Dean was really fighting the mark as such anymore. The guilt flashes in front of the mirror got him even more confused and made him come up with this ridiculous plan. In my thinking the mark let him go along with his plan because he would kill Sam in the process and that is what the mark was after. The most evil thing ever, killing your own brother. I also don't think that it was Dean fighting the mark when he ended up killing Death. I believe he was as suprised as anyone else. It was the core goodness and love for Sam that diverted the scythe in the most crucial of moments and it went straight for the next best kill due to the mark. I don't think Dean was clear in the head (at all!)throughout this episode and only came to when the mark left him.
As a thought on the side: when Dean saw Castiel in the mirror it suddenly made sense to me that Castiel didn't fight back in the previous ep (as an actor's choice). Otherwise it wouldn't have worked for the guilt feelings that seeped through.
I loved the overwhelming darkness coming out of the ground in the end but I think it is a set up for disappointment for the future. I mean where can they go from here? A black screen due to all the darkenss? lol. sorry. Silly humour. But still... we'll see, huh? In for the ride.. and the wait for next season.. watching.. forever. lol. I'm picturing a few sceletons in front of a TV and the words written underneath:"die hard fans". haha ;D

Oh, and I'm really starting to like Rowena. I didn't even think that was possible. lol. Perhaps she can hex a new hairstyle on Sam?... ;)

Hoping to see you sharing lots of impressions from the con when you are back! :D

xox

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I saw that you loved the episode when you posted on your journal! I was going to comment there - but then got caught up.../o\

In my thinking the mark let him go along with his plan because he would kill Sam in the process and that is what the mark was after.

Ah, that's interesting. I can go with that. I wasn't sure what was happening with him at times, but I can accept the Mark was playing with him - as it has done throughout the season.

It was the core goodness and love for Sam that diverted the scythe in the most crucial of moments and it went straight for the next best kill due to the mark.

Oooh, I like that idea also. I felt that Sam had somehow got through to Dean with his sheer emotion, but I also love that the mark was driving him to kill pretty much anything.

Otherwise it wouldn't have worked for the guilt feelings that seeped through.

*nods* in hindsight it does work better this way.

I mean where can they go from here? A black screen due to all the darkenss?

Ha! A whole episode in pure blackess :D. MAybe we'll have to just listen to the dialogue and imagine what is happening. :D


Perhaps she can hex a new hairstyle on Sam?... ;)

Please!!!

xox

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

i will take this finale over last year's. some positives, some negatives, overall, much better than last year. positives-no killing Sam,Sam won, no metatron. negatives-rowena, castiel, and crowley. whatever problems i could of had with it were avoided by the not killing Sam. my grade for this ep is B. this *Darkness thing is soundly weirdly like the 1st evil on Buffy, i hope not. im interested to see what happens next season, hopefully there's a continuation of that scene, if not, i'll feel like i came back for nothing and its the same cycle all over again. now it seems like there will be a clean slate but everything could change. i will stay in a happy place knowing this finale is much better than last year. it has helped grading each episode, i think i might do it again next season. the beginning-A, middle-F, end-C. i cant wait to hear your thoughts! *in my happy place*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping for a clean slate also. They can put the last 3 seasons behind them and start a fresh as brothers who don't hate on each other, don't blame each other and start to feel the trust again. If they start fighting early on, I think I will just cry.

So glad to hear you're happier with this episode and finale than you have been. It's always a nicer place to be with the show. :))

[madebyme-x.livejournal.com]

While this wasn't a perfect episode, I think for the epic Sam and Dean moments alone, I'm willing to forgive and maybe even forget some aspects.

Dean's thread was confusing. I think I'm going to just see Rudy's death being the catalyst for him giving up (would have been doubly more awesome if it was Cas's death, but at this point I don't want the boys to lose yet another ally) and that he's been MoC driven since the Stynes because I can't see him actually accepting Sam's death, let alone the idea of killing him, without the Marks influence. And of course with Dean, it was family that brought him back.

The emotions and painful feels from the Sam and Dean scenes gave me all the dread and heartbreak I was craving from a finale; they were overwhelming and kind of hard to watch (doubly so, since now I get why JP is so emotionally drained and exhausted). But most of all it gave me what I really really wanted; screwed up brothers who will basically kill the world because they simply can't live without each other.

I truly had no idea where this episode was heading. I sort of figured we'd see the end of the Mark, and that a new a big bad was coming, but I thought that maybe we'd get Rowena and (boring) Metatron. So I'm thrilled by the idea 'The Darkness' and I'm intrigued by 'otherness' feel of it, and how they're going to show us that next season.

I was relived that we didn't have another death, and I too hope to see a united Winchester front against 'the darkness'.

I hope you have a wonderful time at the con, and I'm looking forward to hearing all about it when you get back!!

[adrift-n-time.livejournal.com]

I think Dean, still under the influence of the MOC, but also somewhat himself, intended to go through with killing Sam. Both Sam and Dean, but especially Dean, seemed shocked at the actual outcome.

In the end, both brother's were willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good, but at the last second some unknown force intervened... at least that's the way I'm choosing to see that scene, and that, even over 'the darkness' has me excited for next season.

I wasn't expecting thoughts from you until after the con, so it was an extra nice surprise to see your write-up. Hope you have a wonderful time this weekend, and thank-you so very much for all the episode review/discussion this season.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi!

I wasn't going to write anything up, but then I felt like I needed to say a few things. :)) I posted it on my iPad, which is sometimes a bit tricky…

And yes, I didn't think about the fact that they were both prepared to die to save the world. Dean was going to kill Sam and then have Death kill him. I didn't think about "some unknown force intervening", but perhaps between Death and the spell (and maybe even God??) something else happened. Hmmmm, curious…( and actually, I love the idea that there might be an external force constantly preventing them from actually dying - so, it's not just "them" stopping it, but some other external force).

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed this finale though I didn't find it all that tense (except for the obvious scene between Sam and Dean at the end). I did a LOT of handwaving - I need to watch it again to see if my confusion is warranted or not!

Have a tremendous fun time at AHBL! Looking forward to hearing how it goes!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ditto. In fact, for much of it I was like - come on! I was desperate to see what they were going to do with Sam and Dean. :))

[elsewhere91.livejournal.com]

It was a good finale, not my fave but i liked it much more than the finale for seasons 9 & 7.

I have mixed emotions with this episode, as there were some aspects i loved, some i was disappointed at and some that just left me really confused.

I'm curious as well about season 11, and how they resolve the cliffhanger, how they will portray the 'darkness' and how the Winchesters will cope.

Have a wonderful time at the con!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*nods* I like it better than S9 and S7 too. At least the boys seem like they could be back to "normal" for S11. That would be really nice. if they were.

VERY curious to see how the darkness will be portrayed.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

Relief that it looks like the MoC story is over and the boys are back to normal and their relationship seems to have been healed somewhat.
Very much THIS. I have it up to here with all this lying to each other and whatnot.

The biggest thing I've come away with is that it's just easier not to think too hard about the show any more.
Yup. I'm here for single scenes and moments, and lines. Who cares about plot. Life is easier this way. *g*

I don't fully understarnd what happen to dean. One minute he's a murdering badass and utter dick, then he looks in the mirror and sees the 2 people he's hurt
Same here! It looked like he was akin to souless!Sam, only with some uncontrollable switch firing at random.

Let's just hope Sam get a new hair style. Is that too much to hope for?!
I remember the fandom moaning about "cutting it a little" last year. I want to stress very firmly I was NOT among these voices and actually mumbling "Don't listen to them" instead. :) I feel very wise now. Like, experience-wise with a side of "See? Told ya! Or at least I thought at ya'll very loud".

I wonder if the show is going to follow Death's death and have the world dealing with the lack of death problem next season. That would be interesting.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I wonder if the show is going to follow Death's death and have the world dealing with the lack of death problem next season. That would be interesting.

That would be SO interesting. I seriously hope they remember what happened last time there was no Death. I imagine the Death is somehow not really dead (because really? How could that even happen?), but maybe just "gone" for a while or something. They'll have to work out some way of bringing him back I imagine - but in the meantime there could be a lot of chaos - especially with this darkness around also!!

[jessm78.livejournal.com]

I will say, that I'm very relieved that I wasn't sobbing wreck by the end (which I was prepared for). Instead I felt a certain amount of relief.

Oh goodness, YES. I had a certain amount of fear and dread going into this episode and the relief by the end was such a welcome feeling. So glad the MOC storyline has been wrapped up finally.

And yes, Jared just about killed me during that scene with the puppy eyes and his tear, and closing his eyes. Eep :(

And yes, I'm so glad that Sam didn't fail and that he and Dean are back on the same page again. But yeah, this ending made me think of Lucifer Rising a bit and then what happened in season 5. Ugh, I so hope they won't go that way again. *sigh*

I'm also curious to see how they'll get out of this one. And finally...


Let's just hope Sam get a new hair style. Is that too much to hope for?!

HELL YES! ;) Personally I'd love it to be a tad longer, more layered and just more NATURAL looking. Not that one-length helmet-headed monstrosity. All we can do is hope, I suppose.

Have a wonderful time at the con. :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

More natural looking would suit Sam so much better! It's ridiculous to think he takes time to style his hair before he goes hunting. We know what Jared's hair looks like, so to have it all smooth and curled under is just crazy. More layers and let it be natural. I'm never one to really complain about his hair, but this season has been the worse ever!

And pleeeeease - not a S5 repeat in S11. I will CRY! It was fine the first time around, but not again. I am SO SICK of the mistrust.

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Enjoyed it although it was very unsatisfactory, too many things that stood in the way were glossed over far too quickly, forbidden fruit, golden calf, fortuitous meeting of immortal Polish child....

Dean summoning Death was the best part, but even that became so convoluted in a plot device organised just so Dean would finally get to the 'killing Abel/Sam' part, the intensity of the acting saved the day because a lot of things there were borderline laughable. I agree, there's no way you can trace this stuff back to anything characters have done before, you just have to take it one episode at a time.

Rowena, Crowley, Cas and the immortal Polish kid were bad time fillers and went on and on and on.

I was pleased neither died, payment for this escape though is rather enormous, or is it? Damned if I know actually, it all got rather jumpy as though the script writers just threw everything in there including the kitchen sink which has become their standard fair for season enders.

Lots of big questions, is Death dead, is the darkness akin to demons rising as to mirror to the angels falling? I'm not really sure, but it was very pretty wasn't it? Hope they don't drop the ball for 11 as they did with Purgatory and the Leviathan, phht, just look at me, still stupidly optimistic 10 years down the line!

Smaller questions, like when you car gets stuck in a pot hole and THE Darkness is approaching, maybe it's time to take the other car....?

[ash48.livejournal.com]

fortuitous meeting of immortal Polish child….

How out of the blue was that?! I read somewhere else that it would have been nice for us to actually care about that character earlier, or know that Rowena felt something for him before we saw her murder him. It would have been much more powerful I feel.

just so Dean would finally get to the 'killing Abel/Sam' part,

Yes. I suppose at least they made some sort of connection, but it still makes little sense to me. With Dean removed from the planet I doubt Sam would have been able to do anything to get him back (they have clearly forgotten the Sam they gave us in S8). I actually thought Dean was going to kill Sam and that was going to be the thing that released him. I suppose I'm glad that didn't happen, but it might have been really interesting if it had.

Smaller questions, like when you car gets stuck in a pot hole and THE Darkness is approaching, maybe it's time to take the other car….?

Ha! Of yes. I didn't notice that the first time around, but seeing it again the other car is right in front of them! /o\

[njspnfan.livejournal.com]

They retcon'd the MoC, and history of the show for that matter, with this whole "Darkness" thing. So Lucifer really wasn't bad, he was corrupted by the lock/key to the Darkness entrusted to him by his Dad? And they gave the key and lock to one archangel, when they had to break 66 seals to let Lucifer out of the cage? When Lucifer started to be corrupted by the MoD (Mark of Darkness), God had Michael cast Lucifer in to hell? Gotta say this show has daddy issues; never really painted John Winchester in the most favorable light, and this doesn't paint God in a terribly favorable light, either. And this was all revealed wih less than half an episode to go in the season? Talk about an "oh shit, I better stretch this out for another season" moment by Carver. I think the season would have been a lot better if they started hinting to this earlier on; no necessarily giving it away, but just alluding to it like they did with Sam and his demon blood habit in S4.

And let's logic out way thru the MoC/MoD and how it was passed on. If Lucifer gave it to Cain who gave it to Dean, and Cain still had the MoC at the same time as Dean, wouldn't Lucifer also have the Mark? And, since the spell required some of Dean's hair, this would only remove the MoC/MoD from Dean, wouldn't it, meaning the MoC/MoD was still intact? Or is that optional when you pass it on, whether to share or transfer it?

You're right, best not to try to make sense of it.think too much about this.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

See. All that. It does my brain in. I have just not been able to make sense of it all. They made a point of letting us know that Cain still had the mark - but then did nothing with that later on. If they knew they were ending like this (which, I don't think they did), they could have started planting a lot of this sooner.

And the show does have daddy issues for sure. I don't think God has ever been portrayed favourably (I've never been convinced that Chuck is God), so I'm not surprised by the continuation of this.

I can happily buy anything on this show, if they work it through properly. If they want us to believe that Lucifer turned because of the Mark then I would loved to have seen this explored earlier on. It makes him an innocent victim - a victim of God's decision to create a lock and key.

Ack, I can't nut it out. If I thought the writers (well, Carver) had an idea I'd try and work it out, but I'm sure they don't so I'll just keep *handwaving* it all.