10.23 Poll

[ash48]

A little late, but I'm still keen to know what you all thought. :)

[Poll #2012232]

I still have a few comments to reply to on my original 10.23 post, and I hope to get to them soon. :))



Hearing Jensen say that the writers write the season finales (since S5) without a clue how they'll get themselves out if it confirms my new found (solid) understanding that there really is no journey from the beginning of a season to the end of it. I did think that maybe Carver had a 3 year plan when he took over in S8, but if they don't know how a season will end, then I have to assume that there's been no thought put into any continuous character or myth arc journey. And it's clear now that he didn't. I'm not saying that's a bad thing (and I don't think it would be if you don't watch the show for overall themes or character arcs), just disappointing. To keep throwing the boys into these ethical, moral and personal dilemmas without some sort of resolution is just frustrating. If you make Dean do something like he did at the beginning of S9, surely it has to end some sort of comment about it. Jensen believes that the MoC story started for Dean at 9.01 (which I agree with), but I never got the sense that the show/writers thought that. They both suffered as a result of it and yet neither seem to have come away with any understanding it. Though, maybe there's a plan in that. If they understood any of that they would be too "healthy" to be our beloved, screwed up Winchesters…;)

Aaanyway. I could yabber on about all that for ages, but I'm not sure there are any answers. If they don't write in answers (and jump from idea to idea) then I'm just not sure it's even worth nutting out. Though I'll always be interested in fanon ideas… :D

Comments

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I think some of the comments Robbie Thompson made in his Q&A recently spoke volumes.

Ooh, do you have a link to those?

I so often fluctuate in my thoughts about what the writers/show are/is thinking. There are times when it seems like that they are really aware of the conflict between them being heroes and them, well, not. The fact that it's mentioned and even explored suggested that there is definitely an awareness. This season was supposedly about seeing both of them as monsters - Dean as a demon and Sam prepared to do whatever it takes to save Dean. The only problem is, they seem to lack the conviction to see that theme through. Whether it's because it's too soon to fully address it (leaving it for the series finale) or because they are too scared to, it's hard to know. The fact that Sam even talked about them being "good" suggests that it's something that remains a theme.

I think the Show treads a fine line. How to portray the protagonists as "heroes" (or the good guys who we connect to) and yet show them in all their tainted glory because of the evil they are surrounded by. I sometimes wonder that the sheer fact that we are discussing it means that conflict or dilemma is being successfully examined. I know not everyone pulls it apart like we do - but I think the danger they put other people and the world in, is made pretty obvious. The fact that Sam and Dean don't see it, doesn't mean we can't. The fine line is there again when we want to see that ridiculous love and devotion to each other (well, I know its what I want to see), but we also want to see that THEY become aware of how dangerous their co-dependency. I would love to have an outsider pov episode where we really get to see the impact of their relationship outside of what the winchesters see.

I swear if I was a writer I would be able to articulate that better. I just watched a vid by secretelytodream and it reminded me that this is an epic love story between two brothers. We can see the damage, the pain, the hurt, the sacrifices, the utter screwed up nature of their relationship but we also see them as people we love and cheer on. What the casual viewer sees I'll never know, but maybe they do see past them as badass heroes and rather as a dark and dangerous force.

But yeah. At the moment I think we are seeing half hearted attempts to really examine those important themes. But maybe the fact that those themes are still on the table is potentially encouraging.