SPN questions that have been bugging me...

[ash48]

and so I wondered if my knowledgeable flist could shed any light...


1. Was the demon in Croatoan (Duane Tanner) Meg? I admit to never thinking it was but I've come to realise that others think it is....?

2. When Ruby told Sam "You didn't need the feather to fly, you had it in you the whole time Dumbo", she's referring to Sam not needing the blood to be able to exorcise Demons yeah? So if that's the case why does Sam run out of "juice" when exorcising Demons? As in he wasn't able to exorcise Ruby after getting rid on Lilith. Is it because he is mentally exhausted? Spent his mental energies? Did he only think he needed blood in order to use his special skills. If so, does than mean he could actually exorcise demons now (and in S5) and doesn't because it would betray Dean's trust and just be too "darkside"? I'm thinking yes. But would he be able to without the connection to blood.... Hmmmm...

and finally (and this is because I am getting all wooby because I am in the middle of making a Sam vid and it's breaking me heart just a little...).

Why is Dean so hard on Sam with the choices he made after his death? I suppose that's rhetorical, because I know Dean has issues he's dealing with as well (and Sam choosing Ruby over himself cut to the core), but Dean copped out after Sam's death. He didn't want to live with the pain of grief. He couldn't live without Sam, so he bought him back.

Yet Sam had to suffer the terrible grief of losing Dean. He didn't have an out like Dean did. Now, sure Sam made some bad choices, but holy crap. I think Dean making a deal with a demon was a pretty bad choice as well. So yeah, cut your little bro some slack Dean. He was hurting mighty bad and the choices at the time helped him survive. Don't forget, you chose not to live with those feelings.....

(And that last one isn't really a question, just a rant. I know the way each of them have handled each others death is the whole point (well mostly) of S3 to S5. And I love it really! Just thinky thoughts...)

Comments

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

I'm going back and forth on all these posts and trying to make some kind of sense of it all, seeing all the evidence put forward it's clear that Sam and Ruby were doing some sort of blood thingy, before Head of a Pin.

Maybe, and I'm only throwing this out there, maybe she first gave it him as some sort of "cure"? Remember how much pain he was in, the nose bleeds and headaches? What if she first gave him the blood from a flask, would it have less of an effect on him? I do remember - Metamorphosis was it (?) - she asks about the headaches, so maybe it started like that. Then he was struggling to only release a portion of his powers, which I still believe he did - he tells Dean he knows what he's doing and he can control it, Jake seemed to talk about flipping a switch and he had far more powers than Sam seems to have at this point - so I'm guessing he was also trying NOT to turn them all on? Maybe the Demon blood wasn't the power boost early in his training partly because he isn't taking the blood right then direct from her vein? He thinks that practice is the of using his powers within limits, the blood helps him recover. She says if he feeds directly from her, he wouldn't need to practice, the power would be his but that limitless power isn't want he wants, he just wants to kill demons without killing the host.

Does that make any sense?

We know he did away with a great demon Samhein quite early on, 4x07, but he suffered for it, the pain and the bleeding were very much in evidence. Chriss Angel was 4x12, where he decides to make plans with Ruby - he'd been trying to do things Dean's way, but wasn't getting anywhere, so was going back to Ruby to start training again and hunt down Lillith. 4x15 Death takes a Holiday and he's much stronger, feels able to take on Alastair, but still not strong enough to stop Alastair from escaping, he is more confident though. 4x16 Head of a Pin and he walks in to that warehouse and just blasts Alastiar out of existence - I think through his own anger - but I'm thinking now he could have believed the extra boost came from feeding off Ruby directly.

Buggered if I know really, a possible explanation.

I'm so glad you said this because it's one of my main focuses on the Sam vid I'm making - watching his brother die like that (and his guilt for letting it happen) being the main catalyst for basically all his choices in S4.

I think the images in my mind of what happened after Dean died from being ripped to shreds by the hounds haunt my visions of Sam and will always, he must have taken him from the house, all that blood and torn flesh and driven him to that field, made a crude wooden box, dug a pit and placed his brother, his only family in there and then taken the shovel and filled in the dirt. It's horrifying to think of it. I've never checked to see if Dean arose in the same clothes and Castiel mended them, but there's also a big part of my vision that's filled with Sam cleaning his brother and dressing him for his grave. Quite honestly - which ever version happened Sam buried Dean and placed a cross at his head and all that with the memory of making a promise that Dean wasn't going to go to hell. Sam could never, ever forget that and those memories are still there.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Heya! Hee! Yep - lots of ideas being chucked around here and I love it. :)

Does that make any sense?

Absolutely and I really love the idea that it could have been, initially, a way to help Sam through the pain of exorcising. I just can't imagine in my mind the first time Sam would have said yes to Ruby - he must have been extremely down and quite possibly in a lot of pain. Yeah - that's working for me for sure.

I like your thinking on the progression as well. Makes sense and considering we really have nothing to go on the best we can do is speculate.

And oh my. You're breaking my heart here with the details of Sam having to bury Dean. I actually wanted to show that in my vid. I wanted to use a clip of Sam digging a grave, but I couldn't find a suitable one. I've settle for a shot of the cross in the hope that all of that can be imagined....*sniff* Oh Sammy!

Thanks Ellie. I've enjoyed exploring the issue of when Sam started drinking blood. As I said earlier it's not something I'd give much thought to. *g* I have now!

xx

[dinalori.livejournal.com]

I wanted to use a clip of Sam digging a grave, but I couldn't find a suitable one. o_0 Really?? With all the grave digging they do in the show you couldn't find a shot that would work? Huh. *eyes stack of DVDs and VHS tapes* Uh.. you done making that vid? Cause I could always.... ya know.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

No, I'm only half way through making the vid.

And I admit I didn't think too hard about it. I tried to use the one from Roadkill. His expression doesn't work so well - the shovel was ok though.

But yeah - if you can think of any I still may be able to incorporate it. It needs to be just Sam, with a shovel. I also thought about Manipping him in looking at the cross, but I'd need to find a suitable shot of Sam to do that.... and my brain just started hurting... :)

But if you come across any I can see what I can do with it. But don't go to too much trouble hun.
:)

[dinalori.livejournal.com]

Wow. I'm surprised that out of more than 90 episodes there's only been the one scene of Sam doing a salt & burn alone. Even the ones where Sam was doing the digging you can always see Dean just off to the side.

*shrug* Well, I tried.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey there. Thanks so much for looking. And I know. You'd think there would be more...

Each time I'm looking for a particular scene for a vid I go through each episode mentally and basically try to remember what's in it. Of course the more episodes there are the harder that's getting. I confess to not really thinking too hard on that one, so thanks for checking for me!

*hugs*

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

I've had a great time too sorting stuff out in a very friendly atmosphere - I tend to steer away from conversations like this as I'm terrible at remembering dialogue! Spend too much time scrolling for visuals I think, this has really helped me think too, so thanks very much for that.

And yes, for the record I think they dropped the ball for never allowing the audience to openly grieve WITH Sam - Mystery Spot included, flashback was too late and too little, too focused on finding Ruby a clean body and not on what Sam was going through. But they constantly do this and I don't know why - why DID Sam take that first drink of demon blood - it's a huge step and why or why did he say yes to Lucifer? Just being absent from Dean doesn't cut it for me. I want to know, but I don't think I ever will and after a while it really gets me mad.

I would kill for some of those scenes to vid with...

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I tend to steer away from conversations like this

And I usually do to! But everyone has been lovely and I've had a ball listening to everyone's ideas and thoughts on stuff.

I would kill for some of those scenes to vid with...

I know exactly what you mean. The vid I'm working on is pretty long and I would am desperate for more "Sam after Dean's dead" footage. I think I've squeezed every possible shot out of "I know what you did last summer"!!

I always wonder that if we didn't have the writers strike last year, whether we would have had an episode to explore Sam's post trauma from Mystery Spot. I would like to think so... But knowing them probably not.