Oh show...

[ash48]

For some reason a question dreamrequiem asked me in my 5.16 reaction post has still got me pondering.. and that is:

can someone explain exactly what made them flail about this latest episode? Everyone on my flist is spazzing out over it and I feel like I missed something.

And it's true. Everyone seems to have gone nuts over it (me included). I tried to explain why that might be so:


I can only speak for myself but I suspect a lot of it comes down to the fact that they explored the boys past. Their childhood. As you would know fans spend a lot of time speculating and writing about what their childhood would have been like, so to see it on the screen it something to squee about.

And to have such powerful scenes. Seeing what Dean remembers (mostly moments with Sam) and seeing what Sam remembers (mostly moments when he's escaped from his family) is heart wrenching.

But it's more than that. This was an emotional journey episode. It was about Sam and Dean. Not just them hunting a supernatural being. It was an episode that gave us more insight into who they are and what's (probably) going to be important as we head to the finale. And the return to the amulet was very potent. The emotional connection we (as fans) have to it is something else that could have everybody squeeing...

Personally I loved the surreal quality of it.

I don't know. What exactly was it about that episode?! Other than just <3333333333333333

I been doing a lot of meta and ep reaction reading and this episode has certainly generated some very thinky thoughts. Personally I'm still in 2 minds about whether the whole thing was manipulated by Zac to once again try and persuade Dean that he has nothing to lose if he says yes. I've read pros and cons for this and I can't make my mind up. But I think that's the point. It possibly doesn't matter if it was or wasn't. It had the desired effect either way of tearing at Dean's (ever decreasing) emotional stability.

I have also been hearten that a lot of people have been sympathetic toward Sam and his memories. Sam can't be blamed for the way Dean's been hurt by some of his choices. Dean once said to Sam "I'm proud of you Sammy" in relation to him being able to do his own thing. I pretty sure this still holds true.

Oh show. Oh episode. Oh hurty brain. (Shame that wasn't the 100th episode, considering the impact it left).



ETA Since posting this (and finding some more to read) I have discovered some real hatred for this episode. I mean like... Whoa. I suppose though for it to elicit such a strong response it really hit some nerves. (good and bad)

Comments

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Tell you the truth I'm still not sure how I feel about it - I see saw from delight to despair in 0.5 seconds like some headless chicken on speed.

Things that disappointed me the most was the show once again - for me anyway - showing how hurt Dean was by Sam's childhood and I get that I really do, when Sam left it hurt Dean deeply and not because Sam left, but because Dean wasn't much more than a child himself trying to deal with adult concepts and I don't think show stresses this enough and some fans end up whaling on Sam for breaking Dean's heart. Sam had every right to want a life for himself and again we end up with the - Dean needs to grow up and get over himself reactions.

But they were kids - all those things happened when they were kids and yet in the very place where Zac is tormenting Dean with Mary and how everyone leaves him right now, show didn't take the opportunity to show strongly enough that no, not everyone has left Dean, his brother is standing RIGHT THERE beside him and sadly for me didn't say a word - that's what frustrates me in the reality of all of this.

Of course though, show wanted to rip Dean apart again and so it played out like that, and hell yes I did enjoy it on so many levels but it doesn't stop me being sad about it though - I so want to see some sort of spark of hope that they're still together - seems there were signs of that a few episodes back and yet now, it's like hitting the rewind button and we're back once more to Dean is all alone as he can't trust Sam or anyone as they all leave - yeah, I get it I really do, but I wish they'd finally, finally give me some hope as I'm so depressed about it all.

That's me though and I think it worked really well for others.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I'm hearing you. And in fact, I really hope they move on from this. I know Jensen does broken Dean very well (and I think the writers like to use that), but there's not much more of that I can take either. I think we get it. We do. But he seriously needs to cut himself some slack. And Sam.

Dean needs to grow up and get over himself reactions.

Yep. Sam once asked Dean to let me "grow up".. I think Dean needs to do the same. I am a little concerned though that show may not be thinking this way... we'll have to see though. They've talked of Sam finding redemption and the boys coming back together... let's hope that's they way it goes (soon!!).

Strangely I was more enthralled by certain scenes (the opening, the fireworks, Dean with mom, Sam and the dog) than feeling overly depressed by the angst. I mean, the throwing away of the amulet was awful, but by then I was still agape at the rest of the episode.

My major hope is that ALL of this becomes relevant as we near the final. I'll be eating my words if Sam doesn't (in some way) find solace, redemption and gain Dean's trust again. That will be when it breaks me completely.

(Random OT question: You didn't by any chance send me a easter card via my personal email. We've received on from an Ellie and the only one I know is you?!)

Thanks for popping in honey. :D

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

I did send you a Jacquie Lawson Card, not sure what address I was using, I probably used the one from your profile page and yep, it would have been signed Ellie and from my bodkin.button address, I've replaced it now with your live journal address, hadn't really noticed you have both, I'm really sorry for the confusion,

Oh, I so agree with the fireworks scene and the one of Dean when he was little - those were just so wonderful and yet I was frustrated as they were used more as weapons against each other and that made me sad, I wanted to see them bond over something like that and admit how skewed their impressions of their childhood were now that they know how manipulated by fate they are. ::shrug:: I guess I'm disappointed in my own theories of who they are more than anything.

I think it's because I have this in my head, that both of them sorted out their childhood problems long ago in episodes like What should never be, Dean gives Sam that education in his dream, if he still held that grudge I don't think he would have, or at least not to me.

Sam I think already knows how much Dean sacrificed for him - I saw it in that Christmas episode, where he gives Dean his last Christmas also in the last half of season 4, where to me he steps up to protect Dean and tries his best to take the burden of responsibility.

I guess for me it was the stepping backwards - that did it, I feel I now have to adjust again my own impressions of them as I'm obviously wrong in how I feel.

Jared in Rome and his impressions of Sam/Ruby isn't bloody helping either! Serves me right I should stop jumping to my own opinions and just watch show I think!

I do hope you're right in that the relevance of this will become a building block soon, so thanks so much for cheering me up, I think the Sam girls finding so much hope in this really does make things better for me.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I did send you a Jacquie Lawson Card, not sure what address I was using,

Oh yay! Thank you! :D And it's totally cool to use that address - that's why I had it listed. I just wasn't sure if it was you! :D

*hugs* Thank you! It was totally delightful and so nice of you to send it. <333

I think it's because I have this in my head, that both of them sorted out their childhood problems long ago

Ah yes.. see this is one reasons why I wonder if all this was manipulated by Zac... that it was deliberately used as a "weapon" against each other - to drive them apart, to make it easier for them to say yes. (Unfortunately, I don't think there's enough evidence to support that theory, but it sits a lot easier with me to think that the whole thing was "planted" in Dean's mind..)

I think the Sam girls finding so much hope in this really does make things better for me.

yay. That's good. I've found it to be a mixed bag with the Sam girls - some (like me) saw this as Sam becoming stronger (both in his understanding and in his connection to Dean) and others saw this as another reason to bash Sam and make him out to be the selfish little brother. I just don't see the latter.

I will continue to hold out hope for them both. :)

Jared in Rome and his impressions of Sam/Ruby isn't bloody helping either

Oh noes.. I missed that?! What did he say..? Or maybe it's best I don't know..

Thanks again for the card darlin'. Happy Easter. :D

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

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Oh noes.. I missed that?! What did he say..? Or maybe it's best I don't know..

Auctor.

I've seen just one report of the panel, on reading that, so far it just wasn't what I thought of the relationship - I've always considered it unhealthy, manipulative and controlling and I don't think he did, however one report does not mean the truth either, so...um...ooops?

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Ah yes.. see this is one reasons why I wonder if all this was manipulated by Zac... that it was deliberately used as a "weapon" against each other - to drive them apart, to make it easier for them to say yes. (Unfortunately, I don't think there's enough evidence to support that theory, but it sits a lot easier with me to think that the whole thing was "planted" in Dean's mind..)

Auctor.

That is a very good thought, I'm sure Zac was behind the future one, which I didn't believe was the truth - from what we know from Gabriel their destiny is supposed to play out brother against brother and future Dean tried and tried to say yes to Michael after Lucifer took Sam and was ignored, so that makes me think the ploy was only to get Dean to say yes first - thus swaying the odds against Lucifer who would have been defeated before getting his vessel.

That didn't pan out as Dean went back to Sam and they both agreed to stay human and both say no. Heaven doesn't seem very confident of Michael winning a straight out fight and I'm not sure why, but Dean's right, cheating lying dicks they are.

I guess this appointment in Detroit is still the wild card, Zac and Lucifer seem to refer to it so it must be important as far as the destiny is foretold, so yeah, Zac could still have been pushing an agenda again here to once again split the boys - I hope they can recognise it for that if it's the case.

I was surprised there was 'normal' colour in this version of Heaven, show usually tweaks their settings for most out of body experiences and didn't here but I'm not sure that means anything or not!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I was surprised there was 'normal' colour in this version of Heaven, show usually tweaks their settings for most out of body experiences and didn't here but I'm not sure that means anything or not!

At the moment I'll take anything that suggests it wasn't actually heaven. In my own little fanon version, the angels (and maybe even God) were communicating to Dean through a dream, though I believe the "back off" message from God was real, but more as a test to Dean rather than meaning it. And if I really want to get heavy I think they are laying parallels between John and God.. but that's for another post that I'm contemplating.

Actually I found the colouring very interesting in this. It was very dark, almost like there weren't any edges. I certainly got a sense that they were somewhere else, but it certainly wasn't what we associate "heaven" to be. (Which I kind of like. Who's to say what heaven looks like.... :D ). And Zac is very much trying to push his agenda here... that whole scene with Mary telling him that Dean was a burden was total Zac... Bastard! I don't believe for a minute Dean would believe that to be true. I mean I hope not... there's never been a suggestion that Mary didn't love him, so I don't know what would have made him starting imagining that...)

Ooh, now I'm rambling... :p

xx

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

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that whole scene with Mary telling him that Dean was a burden was total Zac... Bastard! I don't believe for a minute Dean would believe that to be true. I mean I hope not... there's never been a suggestion that Mary didn't love him, so I don't know what would have made him starting imagining that...)

Auctor.

And that right there was where I went from squeeful to sad - I was mostly happy with the episode until we got to that point and there I just wanted Sam to SAY something ya know?

But I guess if he did that ending would have lost it's power - so yep, pretty much resigned to the ambiguity of this one right now, but if I have any more rambly thinky thoughts I'll get back to you and I hope you'll keep posting any of yours.