I am confused....
Oct. 31st, 2010 11:34 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ash48I am reading that there's a lot of Sam character bashing today. (Luckily, I haven't read it just heard about it..)
Why? What has he done wrong now? I mean seriously? WTF??
Oh. Is it because he's been lying to Dean? Manipulating Dean? Using Dean as bait since the get go? Not caring about victims? Unsympathetic? Unheroic? Didn't accept the keys to the Impala? Smirked when Dean was turned? Paid for sex? Smirked when he first saw Dean after a year? Didn't tell Dean he was back from the dead? Sided with the Campbells? Continually gave lip service in just about everything he said in that last episode? (and each episode proceeding it)..
Yeah.. because that makes sense. That all sounds EXACTLY like Sam.
HELLO??!! Clearly NOT SAM... Jeez.... how many more friggin' clues (and anvils) do they need to drop?!
This is the whole POINT! If anyone thinks Sam is in any way capable of the above actions then the Sam they know is not the Sam I know. Wow... after 5 seasons I think it would be pretty darn clear what kind of person Sam is.
Oh ...oops, that's right. He left Dean for college. He wanted out of the hunting life. Damn I forgot. Sam is totally all of those things. Silly me.
*sheesh* Ok. I got worked up... needed to rant and I figure my own journal is the best place to do it.
At least that way you can ignore it.
This is why I don't go anywhere else other than LJ when reading discussion posts. I think I'd probably BURST something if I actually read it. I like my little safe, sane haven and awesome, sensible flist. And I am totally up for someone telling me (in a non bashing way of course) if there's a Sam they are seeing that I've totally missed here. Totally fascinated by that...
*breathe Sarah, stay calm...*g**
Why? What has he done wrong now? I mean seriously? WTF??
Oh. Is it because he's been lying to Dean? Manipulating Dean? Using Dean as bait since the get go? Not caring about victims? Unsympathetic? Unheroic? Didn't accept the keys to the Impala? Smirked when Dean was turned? Paid for sex? Smirked when he first saw Dean after a year? Didn't tell Dean he was back from the dead? Sided with the Campbells? Continually gave lip service in just about everything he said in that last episode? (and each episode proceeding it)..
Yeah.. because that makes sense. That all sounds EXACTLY like Sam.
HELLO??!! Clearly NOT SAM... Jeez.... how many more friggin' clues (and anvils) do they need to drop?!
This is the whole POINT! If anyone thinks Sam is in any way capable of the above actions then the Sam they know is not the Sam I know. Wow... after 5 seasons I think it would be pretty darn clear what kind of person Sam is.
Oh ...oops, that's right. He left Dean for college. He wanted out of the hunting life. Damn I forgot. Sam is totally all of those things. Silly me.
*sheesh* Ok. I got worked up... needed to rant and I figure my own journal is the best place to do it.
At least that way you can ignore it.
This is why I don't go anywhere else other than LJ when reading discussion posts. I think I'd probably BURST something if I actually read it. I like my little safe, sane haven and awesome, sensible flist. And I am totally up for someone telling me (in a non bashing way of course) if there's a Sam they are seeing that I've totally missed here. Totally fascinated by that...
*breathe Sarah, stay calm...*g**
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no subject
Date: 2010-10-31 11:07 pm (UTC)The soul issue was never resolved in the Buffyverse no matter how many characters lost and then gained and then lost them over and over again. Seriously, we all lost count after awhile of who lost theirs and when.
You have the Angelus/Angel people who overall (sorry for generalizations) pretty much think the soul is the end all be all. Soul = Good. No soul = Evil (must die!). But the Spike fans (depending on type...shit you not) see things as a little more action based. It comes down to the "Are you good cause of your deeds or some inherent quality?" Buffy herself came down on the inherent (soul) end of things but the show was way more vague...in so far as she never even tried to kill Spike while he was unsouled and chipped. Probably because Spike starting fighting the good fight long before he regained his soul...for selfish reasons may be, but it was still on the side of good. Plus, he was hot! *g*
So yeah, messy. And BtVS never really answered the question to a sufficient degree. In fact, I think they even opened the floodgates again recently with Buffy S8 comics. I've been hearing things about Spike's soul again. (Like he's himself, just meaner.) Such a pesky thing for him. *lol*
I'm sorta in love for SPN doing the soul thing cause I totally didn't see that coming. And if they follow the lines of BtVS at all, which it seems to be doing, then Sam would be acting in character. The soul (in BtVS) isn't so much a complete aspect to your personality or your emotions, just your conscience. You know right from wrong, you just don't care. Kinda like a psychopath. So for me, Sam's actions all make perfect sense. He's still doing what he knows he should be doing, he's just doing it differently. Getting the job done, just not caring who gets hurt in the processes.
As for emotions, one thing that immediately set Spike apart from your MotW vampires in S2 was that Spike was head over heels in love with Dru and not afraid to show it. At first it was said that vamps were just animals but Spike came in and showed that they felt, they loved, they hurt, the wanted, but they didn't have that moral compass to tell them they are going to far and need to pull back. And when they got hungry they didn’t see a reason to stop themselves, so people got dead.
I could go on and on. I wonder how many other BtVSers are going to start popping out of the wood work with Buffy comparisons? Hmmm, cause yeah, Sam unsouled is so not Angelus. He's not even unsouled Spike. More like a souled moody Spike on a bad day. *lol* So tame in comparison. :P
Why are people bashing Sam? It’s not like he lost his soul on purpose. What am I missing?
no subject
Date: 2010-11-01 12:21 am (UTC)Hey honey... I love it when your name pops up.
You you must be totally my brain twin because have only this morning (so probably when you were typing this) I started thinking all about the notiion of Sam without a soul.
The fact that the show is exploring this is exciting, but I am just now starting to feel sad that poor Sam is going to have to - ONCE AGAIN- live with guilt. But I'm not going to blab about this here. I feel a meta post coming up so I'll save it for that. (I've been blabbing a lot lately. I just can't help myself!!)
But the Sam and Dean bashing always puzzles me because they're characters who are given flaws and problems and issue because that's what makes them interesting.
It’s not like he lost his soul on purpose.
See... it's this. Sam will no doubt be blamed for losing his soul and no doubt Dean will be blamed for not caring and not understanding Sam.... *sigh* Poor boys. As someone said above. They need HUGS not Bashing...
(ooh are you around then? Hee! You much know when I have a vid I am about to finish...it's short and um...pretty lame at the moment I think. It may need a good kick. <333
no subject
Date: 2010-11-01 12:54 am (UTC)Glad I didn't step in anything. I wasn't sure what upset you about people reacting to Sam soulless. But I'm so used to soul/unsoul issues...it's almost nostalgic. *g*
Btw, that's Darla in my icon.
She was a human prostitute that was turned willingly....as she was dying of syphilis. Then she was killed by Angel and brought back three years later HUMAN! She couldn't figure out why she felt bad when she did mean things. Lots of running around later she gets turned not willingly this time but once again is a vamp without a soul....then she gets pregnant. (Don't ask how...we never found out either.) During the pregnancy she starts feeling bad about things again and realizes she is sharing the baby's soul. The baby is breech so she stakes herself to deliverer the baby. Self sacrifice is supposedly impossible for soulless creatures in the Buffyverse (Spike would dispute that though) But she figured she has to take herself out while she still shares the soul. For reals! Her last appearance is as a part hallucination, part Angel. So yeah, her journey was soul/no soul/soul/no soul/sorta a shared soul/finally Angel.
BtVSers are gonna have lots of fun with poor Sam. *evil giggle*
no subject
Date: 2010-11-01 07:37 am (UTC)I'll send it over as soon as I have something half decent.
When I posted this I was unaware of the Sam's "condition". I mean, I suspected, as many people have but to be honest, in reflection, the notion has made me feel so sad for Sam.
Though interesting that this will no doubt stir up a heap new thinky thoughts for many people as I'm sure SPN will give us it's own rules as to what constitutes a soul. It's already started doing so.
Wow - the Buffy stuff sounds so deep. Looks like it explored a heap and maybe SPN is jumping right in there with this stuff also.
I wish I wasn't so friggin' attached to this show. That way I could just shoulder shrug my way through all the angst. No such luck.
<333