It's Saturday night...

[ash48]

and there's been drinking.



I've had many thinky thoughts about the show lately. Not in the terms of will Dean experience a complete melt down before the end of the season or is Sam coping as well as he seems etc. But more...I know this show is flawed (there are problematic story arcs and character arcs and plot holes etc etc and yet I am STILL totally in love and invested in it.

I've just happened upon something transfixeddream stated, nearly a year ago:

Sam is stupid. Dean is stupid. They're both fucking stupid, but it's okay because they're pretty.

That's it in a goddamn nutshell.

Sam's flawed. Dean's flawed But they're so goddamn fucking gorgeous it doesn't matter. In fact, it's BECAUSE they are stupid, flawed and gorgeous that it matters. Always has. Probably always will.

I heard recently that Jensen answered the question "why did Dean kill Amy?" with "because he's an asshole" at a con. I really love that. They are not only stupid and flawed but they are also assholes. (Of course! How could they have survived without being all those things?!).

They are also heroes. Who happen to have beautiful eyes and freckles and pecs and hair and.. *thud*). They are also brothers who love and adore each other (which can be taken as gen or so freakin' easily as soooo much more).


Oh Show. What the hell is it about you that let's me forgive all your inconsistencies? (answer.. eps like Slash Fiction and Hello Cruel World maybe..)



Evidence of the pretty! :D

Comments

[maichan.livejournal.com]

Sam is stupid. Dean is stupid. They're both fucking stupid, but it's okay because they're pretty fucking.

[tiniowien.livejournal.com]

^ This.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*chuckle* you said it sister. :D

xx

[winsangel.livejournal.com]

^ A+++++

[galwithglasses.livejournal.com]

Plus, no matter how badly you burn dinner you can still think "at least I didn't start the apocalypse." Kidding aside, the acting is usually pretty good even from guest stars playing the MOW. Oh ok.....really it's because SamnDean are hot and badass...I have no excuses....

The fans are fun too. I don't think I'd care near as much if there wasn't such an enthusiastic creative group of people who also cared.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

The fans are fun too. I don't think I'd care near as much if there wasn't such an enthusiastic creative group of people who also cared.

Ditto! :DD

[zimshan.livejournal.com]

It's the devastating, fucked-up, shared history between the boys. It's never not going to make me sob like a moron when I think about the full emotional scope of their story. But that the show always makes me laugh and lets them be silly and stupid and assholes even while they're being heroes and being flawed and ripping my heart out? All of that all together is why I stay around.

I was raised on Joss Whedon storytelling. Which I sum up with two core principles: A) "hold a character over the edge of the volcano and he'll show you who he really is" and, B) "Make [a story] dark, make it grim, make it tough, but then, for the love of God, tell a joke!" That SPN accomplishes this with that devastating, fucked up shared history for the last seven years, pretty much guarantees I will be the show's bitch for life. ;)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. Their fucked up (and rather inconceivable) shared history. And you're right. Thank god it's not constant doom and gloom. With everything they throw at our boys it could easily be so.

That SPN accomplishes this with that devastating, fucked up shared history for the last seven years, pretty much guarantees I will be the show's bitch for life. ;)

DITTO! <3

[redteekal.livejournal.com]

I like how they are stupid. I like how they can be assholes and are flawed. Makes me think these are totally two human beings with no superpowers who definitely could be anyone you might meet in this world today right now. This is why this show can be nominated for best drama AND best scifi/fantasy because it's the story of two realistic characters (who just happen to be scorchingly gorgeous which is very helpful) that has ghosts. As Dean would say "Its very compelling".

But would fandom be so intensely supportive if the leads were not as pretty? I muse on that one from time to time and then I think why am I wasting my precious Sam and Dean watching time here? I should be appreciating the pretty not thinking in What ifs...:)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yes. Yes. I think we can sometimes lose sight that they are trying to make them human. They are heroes, but they are not flawless.

I would love to see them win best drama. I know it's a genre show but they get the drama so right.

But would fandom be so intensely supportive if the leads were not as pretty?

In short. No. I don't think so. I was actually thinking this during the last ep when we saw Bobby and Rufus. As much as I love watching these two if the show revolved around them as hunters I would not be nearly as interested.

I am definitely there for the pretty. And the brotherhood. Everything else is a bonus. :D
xx

[cherry916.livejournal.com]

That's the beauty of the show.

Which is grounding people in horrible events and showcasing how flawed humans, monsters, angels can be and that NO one is perfect, we all make mistakes but the measure of the man isn't in the mistake he made but how he goes about correcting it.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. Nicely put. *nods* :)

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

Who would ever want to watch a show with flawless characters? What is the point of that? Humans are flawed, do not always behave politically correct or in a logical manner. They are train wrecks waiting to happen. That's the kind of people I want to watch on my TV.

As to the pretty. That's not just SPN, actors on the whole are prettier than 'normal people'. Buffy, Angel & Spike were pretty, and the BSG crew weren't downright ugly either. Flight 734 on LOST was heavily biased to the pretty as well. If I had to chose between pretty and good acting, I'd always go for acting, but unfortunately there seem to be enough people around who are atractive as well good actors, so I don't have to chose - Phew!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Flawless characters would be boring, I agree. And I think this is where (some) fans miss the point of the boys being flawed. The fact that they do the wrong thing sometimes is the whole point. And what makes them so interesting.

Ahhh... it's an interesting point about pretty v talent.

And I am in a conundrum over this. I adore good acting. I don't care what an actor looks like when I'm watching for the acting. But I don't watch SPN for the acting. I mean, the boys are good. They carry it off. There have been moments of top notching acting (for me Jensen breaking down describing hell and Jared showing us a completely different Sam when soulless). But I don't tune in for the acting. I take it as given that they can act. It's essentially that they are ridiculously hot, are brothers and are often in peril. The fact that there is so much more to get excited about - in terms of story arc - is an added bonus.

In many ways actors have to be good looking in order to attract an audience. Especially as leads in TV shows. It's not always the case, but yeah.... mostly.

Ack! I blabbed. It's an interesting discussion. Many really good actors don't make it because they just don't have the looks. And some make it purely on their looks. I think we are lucky that the boys are extremely good looking AND take their craft seriously.

[elsewhere91.livejournal.com]

It's so weird i was thinking about this question on my long bus ride to college a few days ago about why i still love show. I love show, i do, but it's not perfect, it's very flawed. And sometimes i do become extremely pissed off at it in terms of character or plot development and sometimes the writing can be a bit sloppy but i still love it. There are episodes that are my favourite and that can make me cry, laugh or both and there are episodes that i hate, that piss me off, but i still love show.

So i was wondering why i still love show and i realised that i do love that ALL the characters, but especially Sam and Dean are really flawed, I love that they are so human, and that sometimes there are times in show when you just want to slap them or hug them or whatever but i love how just..human they are. That they make mistakes, that they argue, that they repeat their mistakes and actions, that they act like brothers and they can and have hurt each other. Also i like that they don't hug a lot or cry on each others shoulders a lot, that what's not said is just as important as what is said. I love how the characters have evolved and grown and changed yet still kept that same central core that makes Sam Sam and Dean Dean

I love how depressing this show can be but it still has hope, like life. That this show can make the two leads so dark and ambiguous with their actions and that they aren't so black and white and clear cut is so great.

I love how this show can still surprise me years later, can still make me cry and i love how i can still watch a season 1 episode and still notice things that i haven't noticed before.

i love how many things in this show aren't always shown and answered and that things are always up to interpretation and are ambiguous. Not everything is wrapped up or resolved at all and even if it is resolved it's not in a clean neat bow. I also love that there's these different layers to the show that i'm just starting to see.

Plus the acting is great, and of course Jared and Jensen are gorgeous, so you know that doesn't hurt :)

Wow, sorry this is really long. Oh and by the way can i friend you? I just love your episode reviews and posts.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Wow. I just want to say YES YES to everything here. I love it and get pissed off with it for all of those reasons. Well put!! :D

And of course I don't mind the friend. Thank you. And will friend back. I love hearing what others have to say - whether it's to agree, disagree or to share the love. :DD

[no-ones-sleep.livejournal.com]

O dear- you have no idea what uproar you just caused in my little world. I won't bother you with explanations (it has to do with Heroes and what Milo Ventimiglia said about the character he played), but could you tell me where you found that Dean-is-an-asshole-quote from Jensen? I know it is stupid and that he probably didn't mean it, and maybe it was meant to be funny, but I am... I can't go through this again. It really hurts me. Fandom, I tell you...

I actually enjoy show right now. I watch it because it is dark, hopeless and tries to destroy the character I love so much, and as long as he doesn't break for good, all is well. Sort of. I need to know that we can be stronger than anything that is thrown our way, that fate, destiny or whatever enemy cannot make us give up for good, and Dean is the fighter par excellence. Like you said- a hero.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ack! Not uproar! *hides* Actually, this came about because of uproar (in some ways) In that, when we are feeling shitty about the characters we love it ok. They are meant to not always do the right thing. And really... they're just so damn pretty so it's doubly ok. :)

Re the quote. I'll have to see if it's been captured. A friend of mine was at a con when he said it. Apparently the fans were asking why Dean would do such a thing and that's how he answered. Now, whether he actually thinks that or if he'd just had enough of being asked that question I don't now.

I know Jensen loves his character so it's not about putting him down. It's just acknowledging that Dean can do some things that "we" normal humans, would consider assholish. I mean... both brothers have acted in "asshole" ways. I mean, damnit. Sam was pretty much one all through S4. Killed my freaken heart it did. (Not to mention half of s6).

I think Dean is on such an interesting journey at the moment. I love that we are seeing some different sides to him. He is such a goddamn hero. But that comes at a price.

I can't wait to see how he handle's Bobby's death. (assuming he is dead).

*hides some more* Uproar is scary.

<33

(I'll find out more about that quote as soon as I can).

[no-ones-sleep.livejournal.com]

No need to hide!!! Quite the contrary, thank you for your help! I probably come across as a bit weird, right? I am a very emotional person, and I am wholeheartedly invested in everything I do, so everything tends to become personal for me. I know this way of living has its weaknesses, but... the joy is felt so much deeper this way, too, and I don't want to miss it. The flip side is that I get hurt more easily, but I decided to read Jensen the riot act and be done with it.

I am still terribly interested in watching Jensen actually saying those remarkable words- so if you find anything on that matter, YOU would be my hero! :-)

You know how much I love Dean and Jensen, so please bear that in mind while I write the following sentences: I catch myself being annoyed sometimes by Jensen's latest portrayal of Dean. I am currently rewatching Season 1, and he was acting more reluctantly there and thus more... I don't know, believable?! These days, he exaggerates too much (though thank God he did fine with the burger's sideeffects) in my opionion in ways of speaking (using his rough voice) and facial expressions (too much aiming for laughs sometimes, or so it seems to me). I feel like Jensen has either grown too accustomed to Dean or is a bit bored by having to portray him. And hence my being upset when I read about this asshole-thing. (Great, that sounds like another word for butt plug, I guess.). But maybe that is just the way Dean is written, and Jensen is forced to play him like this? But then, Dean was so close to breaking in S5, too, and there he was more of a character than he is now. Sometimes, I can't relate to Dean on screen anymore, I watch his story arc and know what he SHOULD be feeling and expressing, but it's not there in his eyes anymore, not like it used to be in former seasons, and I am worried that Jensen's just weary. And I'm so sorry for my rant here, it's just that I believe you know what I mean, and I would love to know your thoughts on this!

Now it's probably my turn to hide... *throws a "I'm sorry!" over some oceans*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh hun. No need to apologise for anything. I find this stuff really interesting. (and I am TOTALLY emotional, so I know where you are coming from).

It's also a great point that you bring up. As far as I can tell (and from what I have read) they boys are very attached to their characters and the show.

This from the recent Supernatural magazine from Jensen:

"Being able to spend this much time with Dean has been a really big joy for me."

I think Dean's story line is going in a tricky direction at the moment. He has to play the reluctant hero. He seems to have to redefine himself this season. Sam has said "look after yourself". But how does he do that? He defines himself in terms of Sam and John and probably Bobby. How does exist outside of them?

I suspect Jensen has had to grapple with that as well.

I see jensen as a very dedicated actor and director. He doesn;t suffer fools and I would hate to cross him. (I've watched a lot of con footage and he's kind of scary *g*). I think he "tolerates" fans but would rather sit around a table quietly talking about the craft of acting and directing. OR party hard and not have to talk about his character.

I suspect this comment came out of a long day at a conference. Also.. that he recognises that the act of killing Amy was problematic. I seriously don't think he thinks of Dean as an asshole. As in - "this character is a dick". It's more. "Yeah. Dean is flawed. He can be an asshole."

Re Jensen's acting. To me he's an actor who needs a good director. He CAN overact. He needs a director to tell him to tone it down. That's why I like his "drugged" Dean recently. He didn't go overboard, which I think is down to the director. I think Jensen can pull out some amazing acting (his post hell breakdown to Sam was stunning) but he can also overact when let loose (Yellow Fever anyone?!).

I am trying to get some more info about that comment from Jensen. It came from a RL friend so I will drill her for more info!

Oooh - and I meant to say. It's not in his eyes because Jensen has been told that Dean is not interested in the hunt anymore. Jensen is trying to play a disillusioned hunter - which is very different to his usual gun ho hunter.

HEE! Or something! I'm probably spouting rubbish. It.s just the way I see it. :D (though I agree at times he seems less passionate but I can't tell if it's Dean or Jensen).

[sothcweden.livejournal.com]

I agree about the flawed and the pretty, but what brings me back week after week (other than sharing with other fans) is that while the boys are being assholes and fucking up all over the place, that they try not to. That they try to help others and be better, even if they often fail at both. They haven't entirely given in to the idea of just taking from the world, but try to leave it in better, safer shape.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. That they try so hard to get it right. Many times they do.. sometimes they don't. But at all times they try to do what's right and good for the world. They have morals and a code of ethics. They love with an all encompassing passion.

And they are pretty. *BG*

[la-sigh.livejournal.com]

You completely speak my mind on Show!!