Jensen interview

[ash48]

Note: There are spoilers in the interview. Under the cut are spoilers for the Mark's affect on Dean only - and minor speculation.

Jensen's kindly given an interview to The Winchester Brothers on Winchester Radio recently (I suggest you avoid the comments in the above link if you want to avoid some nastiness. I accidentally saw some and decided to respond. I KNOW I shouldn't have done but dammit I was steaming). I actually read a transcript of the interview (and I've just seen that stir_of_echoes has created one also <3) rather than listen to it. I started to listen but found it a little…er…messy (which might have been because of nerves maybe).



I think missyjack said it best when she called Jensen the ultimate Dean!girl. :) And so he should be. Listening to him talk about Dean is wonderful and insightful. I love how supportive he is of the character and it has given me some insights to how he goes about playing him. I particularly love how he includes his experiences in Purgatory as something that drives Dean. We never see that (unfortunately!), but it's wonderful that Jensen's using it for inspiration.

It's also interesting to hear his take on Sam. Some of it I found hard to accept and I didn't agree with quite a bit of it, but I did find it interesting. I know that Jensen probably doesn't spent a lot of time analysing Sam's character (if at all), so it's not surprising that his comments are based on Dean's experience of Sam and not how he sees Sam fitting into the overall picture. Which makes sense because as an actor you are totally focused on your own character (I'm hoping Jared will do a similar interview because I'd love to hear his insights into Sam).

I wasn't totally thrilled by the pitch of some of the questions (in fact, it was a little disappointing that the interviewers weren't more objective and even handed with the questions) but there were some great questions that allowed Jensen to really talk about his character.

Some interesting comments he made:

Obviously, Dean is willing to go all-in and keep the family together, and keep the brothers moving down the road and it seems that more and more, Sam is willing to cash out and he’s not willing to put his life on the line the way that Dean is.

Not going to deny that this comment really took me aback. I have no idea what "cash out" means but if this is the Sam we are going to be seeing in the future it might well be the final straw for me. I'm not quite sure what Jensen's take on 8.23 was but Sam was completely ready to put his life on the line for the greater good. And er….end S5? Though I will accept that Jensen might be channeling Dean and thinks that Sam won't lay his life on the line for Dean. Which is crazy of course, but it's something Dean would absolutely be feeling (though if Show decides that actually Sam WON'T lay his life on the line for Dean then it's not the show I originally started watching so it'll be all over red rover for me).


That’s a tough pill for Dean to swallow, and I think the only way he’s dealing with it is by not dealing with it.

That's a really interesting observation and I think that's definitely true. I love that he mentioned this because I've wondered if Dean not acknowledging what Sam has suffered is part of him just not wanting to deal. We've seen Dean shut down more and more I think.


The mark of Cain has given him a simplicity in his thoughts that’s allowing him to ignore the complexity of their relationship right now and focus on the prize, which is Abbadon at this point

Fair call..but…um….Abbadon is the prize? I thought Gadreel was on the top of Dean's list? Not sure exactly how Addadon became top priority. Maybe it's because it's what Crowley wants? I'm trying to remember why Addadon is such a thorn in Dean's side - considering she hasn't really featured much this season (or last for that matter). Curious.


So, I think the line between black and white is becoming almost dangerously clear, the grey areas are becoming less and less as far as Dean is concerned.

Awesome! The Mark is going to be really interesting for Dean. Seeing a cold (almost soulless) Dean is going to give Jensen some great stuff to work with and will be great to watch.


Yeah, for a long time there were a lot of different storylines going on, mostly revolving around Sam, and what the story was doing to Sam although a lot of it, it could be said was being seen through Dean’s perspective, the story was always, kind of about Sam and what was going on internally with him

Pretty much what we all know and have said for a while. Though not sure how "what was going on internally with him" means as we don't get a lot on what's going on with him internally. I mean, we get the angst but we don't get to see the result of all the crap that happens to him. But I get it - from Dean's perspective stuff is ALWAYS happening to Sam (and my god it really is!) and I kinda get the sense that Jensen is happy for the "stuff" is now going to be happening to him.

Which I'm pretty darn excited by too. He also talks about the roles reversing - which makes me wonder if we'll get to watch Dean's story through Sam's eyes now? I think that would be pretty cool if handled right.


Yeah, Sam’s a real selfish asshole is what it boils down to (laughs)

It is true, Sam seems to be a little preoccupied and maybe it’s a little brother thing. Maybe he’s

“You’re my big brother you can figure it out yourself.”

But that’s a contrast to the way Dean thinks as in, “I’m the big brother and I have to protect my little brother from harm.” That’s kind of been his creed for as long as he can remember so I think that they both kind of come at it from different angles. Sam is more willing to allow for things to happen as they happen and it’s a Sam-centric world in his mind, and I think it always has been and I think it’s been a Sam-centric show for a long time

Yeah. I probably should just let this go. I know Jensen said some of this in jest but if even Jensen thinks Sam's an asshole what the hell hope do any of us have that think he's not. *sigh* And Sam is Sam-centric? Yeah, saving the world was all about Sam. Trying to trade himself for Dean in hell was clearly all about Sam. Sam continuing to hunt, save people, listen and help people is only because Sam thinks about himself. Clearly. (I know I am coming across as some sort of bitter Sam!girl, but I seriously must be watching a different show if, after everything, Sam is still considered selfish). I am aware that Jensen is talking about the characters and it makes sense that that is what Dean would be thinking - but even then Dean KNOWS Sam is not selfish - he's seen first hand the things Sam has been willing to do for others. I suppose it's fair that Jensen might think that though - considering a lot of fandom thinks the same.

What does come across clearly is Jensen wanting something more for his character. And I don't blame him. When we look back and think about everything that has happened to Sam it's pretty epic. Jared has been able to play all sorts of characters - many different versions of Sam. Jensen hasn't really had that opportunity, so I think Jensen has a right to be feeling pretty over Jared getting all the cool stuff. Jensen plays "dark" very well (end!verse Dean is still one of my fav Deans) and I think the Mark is going to give him some great material to work with. Oooh, we still might get to see 2014!Dean emerge. That would be wicked if they somehow gave us that future version of Dean - what a cool tie in.


Whether he protects him because of the fear of loneliness, whatever the reason is, I don’t think Dean sits in his bed and psychoanalyses himself all that much.

Definitely. And interestingly it's coming across exactly like that. WE do! But Dean doesn't. Even non-Mark Dean wouldn't contemplate his motivations too much. He just is.


Winchester Radio: To that end, are there any decisions that Dean has made over the years that you could revisit and possibly alter in some way?

What would be the issue if you were to do so?

Jensen: Not invite Gadreel into Sam. That would be number one on the list.

*phew* I'm glad we're on the same page about that. And he, like me, understands that what Dean did is all part of the story telling. This isn't Jensen saying he didn't what that for Dean, but rather knowing that Dean would want do-over on that one decision.


I have to say this interview hasn't given me a lot of hope for the storyline exploring Sam being possessed against his will (not that Jensen would know or possibly worry about). It's just not on their radar. I probably have to accept that if I want to continue to enjoy the season (and series actually). I just have to accept that, much like last season, the reasons for why Sam is behaving in a certain way is not an issue - just that what he's doing is enough to create a reaction from Dean. And now that the story is moving to the Mark (and Dean changing because of it), there will be even less focus on Dean feeling/learning/growing from anything he's done. In fact, Sam's attitude is likely to be driving him toward that darkness. Sam will just have to move on (*fandom cheers*) and forget that the first part of the season even happened for him. I could be wrong and they may well integrate Sam's past experiences into his story arc, but I can't see it. Though I suspect we'll be watching Sam fight for his brother - which will be cool too. At this point it's the only thing I can imagine happening that will calm down all the hate.

It's so wonderful that Jensen gave up his time to give this interview. It's a shame that it will (already has) created even more of the Sam v Dean crap. I ranted on tumblr about all that so I won't repeat it here. Needless to say I am totally over it and I think I might be joining fellow fans and remaining off fandom sites until the storyline allows people to actually behave civilly.

That said, I am more than happy to discuss the interview as long there's no nastiness - for either Sam, Dean or Jensen.

Comments

[stormcloude]

"Cash out" is a gambling term, I think. It means to turn in your chips for cash and leave.

I'm not happy with the things he said about Sam. But then again I'm not Jensen's biggest fan, so it doesn't really surprise me.

Jared has been able to play all sorts of characters... And Jensen has gotten to play against all sorts of characters. But do you think we'll get that reversal now that Dean gets the mytharc and the POV?

Okay, this is really sad to me: I just have to accept that, much like last season, the reasons for why Sam is behaving in a certain way is not an issue - just that what he's doing is enough to create a reaction from Dean.

So now Sam is just a prop for Dean to play off of and drive Dean's actions? What's happened to this show?

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

Like you my biggest concern is that Jensen is telling us that eventually the story will be all about Dean the good brother who saved Sam his miserable, selfish excuse for a brother and Sam should go down on his knees and thank Dean for possessing him. If that is how this goes, I will be out as well. To me the consent issues are the important ones here and if they aren't dealt with then I have no hope that my show will ever give a fair look at Sam. And I'm about to cry right now.

I'm pinning my hopes on believing that this was Jensen speaking from Dean's mindset, not what I can expect to see for the rest of this season. I also recognize that Jensen may have been under a strict, no spoiler rule which could be why he answered the way he did.

I was unhappy with the absolute refusal last season to look at why Sam did things. I knew Carver said he had a three year plan and I intended to give him the entire three years to see where he was going. But if this season ends with little or no Sam POV and blaming Sam for not wanting to be possessed against his will, I don't know if I will be able to watch the final season, it will be just too painful.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

"Cash out" is a gambling term, I think. It means to turn in your chips for cash and leave.

Hmmm, I had a feeling it referred to leaving. Doesn't make a lot of sense considering Sam didn't do that at all. Maybe he means in terms of the relationship.

But do you think we'll get that reversal now that Dean gets the mytharc and the POV?

A gal can hope! I think it would be an interesting direction for them to take. If Dean goes dark side he won't be a reliable narrator, so it might get to see Dean via Sam. Not sure how that might work, but as he talks about role reversal we might see it.

So now Sam is just a prop for Dean to play off of and drive Dean's actions? What's happened to this show?

Well, it just might be me being cynical. So far the possession hasn't been important - other than it causing the rift, so I'd be surprised if they suddenly explore how that might have affected Sam. I think Sam's reaction will play a part in driving Dean away (I think Jensen even mentions that) so yeah, Sam's response is probably more about how it affects Dean. But I may be wrong - I think that even though the show gives us more about why Dean is feeling stuff we do get enough snippets to get some insights into Sam. Sam seems to be working out what forgivable and what's not - so the possession angle might be re-visited.

We shall see!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

And I'm about to cry right now.

I've been there. I actually shed a tear after reading the interview (and those consequent comments). I then pulled myself together and tried to see it as the way Dean would be looking at Sam. And actually Jensen gave away very little - I also suspect that if there are any scenes where Sam and Dean are a apart Jensen won't know what's happened to Sam anyway.

I feel like I need to brace myself for the upcoming storm - and not in the nice way that's about sharing this bumpy journey. More in the way that if they don't give us more on where Sam's head is at (and in a way that makes sense) I'm not sure I'll be strong enough to carry on (ha…sounds so melodramatic).

I remember how I felt after the brothers got back together last season. Sam's story was totally unresolved and the reunion felt more like it happened out of necessity rather than something they both wanted. I cried then too. I just hope we don't have that again.

But I am still very hopeful that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Knowing that Carver wrote two of the most bro positive (and Sam strong) episodes ever gives me a lot of hope.

I also recognize that Jensen may have been under a strict, no spoiler rule which could be why he answered the way he did.

Yeah, and I wonder if any of that was said in order to stir up a reaction. I'm not sure how cynical I should be on all this. He really could only say stuff that reflects how his character is feeling - so I suppose that makes sense.

Man, it's going to be a long road to the finale me thinks.

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

Oh wow. That was kind of. Um...

If the way Jensen has portrayed the storyline going is the way it's going down, I'm not sure it will hold my interest through season ten. If they really do make this about Dean being the selfless hero and Sam being ungrateful and selfish, I'm going to be seriously disappointed.

It'll be interesting if Sam has to fight for his brother if Dean goes darkside but if it's all just to make Dean the ultimate hero and Sam the bad guy then it will ruin it for me. I've never seen one brother as better than the other and I've never seen Sam as the bad guy, just a guy that made some bad choices through extenuating circumstances. I think Dean has made some pretty bad choices too. I'm kind of fed up with them demonizing (no pun intended) Sam.

I was hopeful that the current storyline would have been a chance for Dean to grow and learn like Sam has and have the brothers build a whole new level to their relationship but this interview really makes it sound like all of it will be swept under the rug again and frankly, that would be tiresome. If things just keep going in circles like 'save my brother at any cost' followed by 'everything backfires because of it', rinse and repeat, then the show won't hold my interest anymore. Too much repetitiveness just gets boring.

It was great Jensen gave his time for this but the interview made me cringe.

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

I was wondering if you were going to do a post about this interview lol.

I think that there's probably a lot of character bleed happening, in the sense that right now Dean is feeling hurt and angry and alone (amplified 100x by the mark) so that is where Jensen's head is at in the moment. We should also remember that he said he hasn't read past 9.20, so we have no idea how the last 3 episodes of the season will turn out. I've always been saying for awhile (here on your journal!) that we would get dark Dean and that it will spill over into S10, mainly because I think Carver is (badly) re-doing S4 in his own image. It's a long road if that's the case.

My concern with that is that if you flip that dynamic (and I have no issue with it since I'm glad Jensen gets something fun to play), but maintain Sam as the ~asshole vs. how Dean played the protective/support role, then it becomes really one-sided. I also think at this point, perhaps Sam doesn't think he has the right to play that role for Dean while they are in the middle of this angst after everything he said to him.

The worst thing is that Jensen (unintentionally, I'm sure) just handed the Sam-haters quotes for their tumblr graphics for years to come lol.

In conclusion: Carver's the worst

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I've found some of Jensen's interviews rather strange in the past if I'm honest. I.e when Sera took over as show runner and he was talking about being uncomfortable with how soft Dean was being written as, even though it was Kripke who set up Dean wanting the apple pie life in earlier seasons and it was an obvious character choice to show him in that life with Lisa and Ben before Sam's return shock him up. I'm not sure how to put this exactly, but I've noticed that Jarad has generally been more gung-ho over getting to play evil Sam if it means something different, ditto with the brother rivalry and stuff like that, while Jensen seems very protective of his character and to emphasise with Dean a lot more? I think that Jarad has said that he's not a method actor, and I guess that Jensen is?

He's never been so blunt about Sam before, and in not sure what to think abut that :( It does sound like was saying it in a jokey way, but saying that your characters brother is a real selfish asshole still seems an odd way of putting it to me and makes me angry if I'm honest, so I'll try not to say too much about that!

Sam is more willing to allow for things to happen as they happen and it’s a Sam-centric world in his mind, and I think it always has been and I think it’s been a Sam-centric show for a long time

I've always thought that was ridiculous. I remember in season 4 Jensen was talking about it being great that he could finally be a part in the mythology and that it wasn't all about Sam any more, but I don't see how Dean wasn't treated equally in Screen-time and focus just because he didn't have the exact same issues as Sam fearing the demons having a plan for him. He had huge story arcs with dealing with the death of his father, most of the first half of season 2 was all about Dean in that respect, not to mention preparing to go to hell in season 3 had a lot of character beats for Dean as well. I just don't understand why he seems to feel hard done-by when if anything Dean is treated as the audience POV character and gets more screen time than Sam. Him and Jared even joked in the past over his jealously over Jared getting a week off and Jarad only having like one scene in the episode to film, while Jensen had to carry the time-travel episode. But every so often he seems to come up with these comments on it being all about Sam and now he can now finally have a part in the mythology

[stormcloude]

I think he maybe meant that Sam had cashed out from the hunting life? That's the impression I get from the comment about not being willing to put his life on the line (which is the exact opposite of what happened at the end of S8, so I have no idea where Jensen got this idea from, unless it's coming up in the next few episodes.)

I think Sam's reaction will play a part in driving Dean away (I think Jensen even mentions that) so yeah, Sam's response is probably more about how it affects Dean.

D: So much DNW! And I didn't think the Sam hate could get worse. If this is what they do, I'll be rooting for someone to nuke the writers fandom writers.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

If they really do make this about Dean being the selfless hero and Sam being ungrateful and selfish, I'm going to be seriously disappointed.

Personally I will be weeping into my pillow, but I HAVE to believe that Carver preparing to explore both character arcs. It feels like there's been this huge set up to explore some really deep issues for both of them but if this has all been about making one brother "right" over the other then it will all be for nothing. Last season I don't think either brother was treated particularly nicely (I wonder if Carver actually likes these characters?) and it looks like he's treating them much the same way this season.

I can only hope he's got a cunning (and wonderful) plan that sees both brothers being treated fairly.

It was great Jensen gave his time for this but the interview made me cringe.

I have to admit my heart sank at a few moments. There was some great stuff there too but all I was thinking was how much this will stir up even more Sam hate. And it has. :( (and I believe Jensen has copped some too. *sigh*)

[tarynelliott.livejournal.com]

Sigh. All this backlash means Jensen will probably button his mouth and not talk as per usual.

I thought it was a great interview. Jensen's dry sense of humor doesn't translate well to transcript.

Jensen has been nothing but pro-SPN and he felt comfortable enough to talk candidly about the Dean char and most of his answers were Dean's POV. There was probably some Jensen bleed in there, but honestly...it always has been the Sam show.

If you were an actor wouldn't you get sick of always being the support rather than the main story?

They brought this awesome MOC story in and then didn't really touch on it again. Instead they have Jensen go with a nuanced portrayal of an increasingly angry, emotionless Dean.

I love that Jensen actually have us a little insight into the season but didn't really give us any details. I know I'll be paying attention the next few eps especially.

And the interview itself was very one sided. I'm sure the WB peeps were just nervous but man...no interaction. "That's interesting" is not a good way to get into a good dialogue. Especially when Jensen was so open and friendly.

I really hope Ayisha Tyler gets him on Girl on Guy. She gives good interview. I love both of Jared's w her.

[ashtraythief.livejournal.com]

As always, a very insightful post. Thanks :)

I have decided to just lean back and ogle the pretty. Give in to the shallowness if you will :) and hope that Carver indeed has a plan.

I'm glad you continue to make these posts, even if they can be painful at times. So I guess what I meant to say is: thanks for still being an active part of fandom even if it can be sucky. Your posts always make me feel better about the show.

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure protective/supportive even is a viable option in terms of parallel storylines. The kind of supportive Dean was during the Trials would be totally off for a darkside!Dean arc, and at the equivalent points in s4/s5 Dean wasn't exactly emotionally supportive Dean to Sam, and it wouldn't have worked character or themewise if he had been. And protective, though I do hope Sam will get to do some Dean-saving, is a loaded thing at the moment: the idea that protection should take the form of overriding its object, or of extreme and damaging measures, is exactly what they are fighting about. Since Sam (and, I think, fundamentally the show) is at this point opposed to a lot of the "big gestures" the interviewers seem to want (deals and forced possession -- don't get me started on what I think of presenting Gadreel as some wonderful thing Dean did for his little brother), a lot of role reversal avenues are closed off. I don't know how Carver will handle this, but I don't think having the same family dynamic with parts exchanged will be it, because I really do think that Carver, however clumsily, is serious about critiquing the basis of that family dynamic. But I'm not sure he has figured out a way to give weight to both storylines without buying into that formula.

For the rest, I actually think some of what's going on is the opposite of character bleed. Jensen's conflation of Samcentric show (as he sees it) and Samcentric Sam (also as he sees it) seems to me like some of his feelings as an actor about the distribution of the storylines is getting projected onto Jensen/Dean's read of Sam.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I was wondering if you were going to do a post about this interview lol.

Ha! I couldn't help myself. I mean, I TRIED to leave it alone but then I had an itch that needed scratching…

I think that there's probably a lot of character bleed happening,

Yeah, I appreciate that Jensen was speaking so much from his character's pov and it makes a lot of sense. I suppose it would be weird if he wasn't supportive of what he was doing with the character. And maybe it shows just how much Dean really doesn't see why Sam is so pissed.

but maintain Sam as the ~asshole vs. how Dean played the protective/support role, then it becomes really one-sided.

And actually I don't think they'll play it all that one sided (god I hope not). Even after the last episode we got to see a peak at what Sam is dealing with and I didn't feel that Dean is coming off completely innocent in all this.

If Carver is playing out the Kripke years in his own way - in reversed roles - the main problem is Sam won't get away with it at all. If Dean is dark (as Sam was in S4) and Sam rejects him (as Dean did to Sam in S4) then that will essentially be the end of Sam I reckon. Sam just doesn't get away with doing the same stuff Dean does - mainly because he's not that character. Sam has STAYED with Dean - said a couple of things that stung and he's now labelled a selfish asshole (and I don't mean just by Jensen). If Carver IS re-doing all of this I hope he sees a way out that isn't going to keep landing Sam in the shit.

In conclusion: Carver's the worst

I am trying not to believe this but the more we go on and the more I hear the more I worry.

*reminds self he wrote A Very SPN Xmas and Mystery Sport*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I would hope having a civil discussion isn't something that would mean Jensen buttons his mouth (though I don't know how it's been received elsewhere). As I said above, I thought the interview was great. I love much of Jensen's insights. I've always admired him as an actor and I feel we are blessed that he gave us an interview.

I admit to having a personal interest in Sam's story so all I am doing here is trying to work out what might be in store for that part of the story line. It's also my way of bracing for things that might be to come. I've been having an extremely hard time with all the Sam hate so it's nice (for me) to have a place I can discuss stuff like this in a safe-(ish) place . I can't deny that some of the things that were said hit close for me, but that's just because I feel for a lot for Sam.

I love that Jensen actually have us a little insight into the season but didn't really give us any details. I know I'll be paying attention the next few eps especially.

Oh me too!!

And I would LOVE Ayisha Tyler to get Jensen on. Her interviews with Jared were fabulous. :))

[galwithglasses.livejournal.com]

I also suspect that if there are any scenes where Sam and Dean are apart Jensen won't know what's happened to Sam anyway.

Just a fly-by to mention that Jensen did say that he and Jared haven't been shooting at the same time much so other than reading the script, he may not really know how Jared is putting Sam in front of the camera and won't until it's all edited together.

The only other thing I feel really good about commenting on is that Jensen has Dean's 'repress and deny' way of life pretty well in hand. As for the rest of it? I'mma go have a large chocolate bar and wallow.

At least Purgatory Dean is disturbingly hot so there is that…...

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I think that Jarad has said that he's not a method actor, and I guess that Jensen is?

You know, I really don't know about this. Jensen certainly comes off as being more method I suppose - but I haven't read much about their individual acting styles.

I suspect Jensen would like to have some "fun" with his character also. Maybe? He's watched Jared have scenes where he's switched between Sam and Gadreel and probably thought…that would be cool to do! Also, Jared has been so excited about playing those twin roles maybe Jensen wants in on that too.

Interesting that Jensen mentions Purgatory- it sounds like he loved playing those scenes (and couldn't we just tell watching him on the screen?!) and he's probably disappointed that story line didn't go anywhere. Maybe it's partly why they've given him the Mark storyline - it might be a bit like purgatory!Dean.

so I'll try not to say too much about that!

ha! I've held back to. I admit to thinking…noooooooooooooo! Not you too!! (and I didn't actually listen to him say it, so it may well have been said differently to I imagine from the transcript).

I just don't understand why he seems to feel hard done-by when if anything Dean is treated as the audience POV character and gets more screen time than Sam.

Hmmm..maybe being the pov character doesn't feel like it's much. I think because Jensen proved how good he was at emoting (that single perfect tear!) they've given him the emotional story arc whereas Jared has been given the "action" I suppose. To me, both characters have had great story lines. I have no problem with them giving Dean the Mark (in fact I'm excited by it) but it will depend how all this plays out and what impact it has on the relationship.

I wish both guys would speak up and say they'd love to see the brothers back on even footing. Watching them at such odds is just downright painful (and tiring).

[ash48.livejournal.com]

At least Purgatory Dean is disturbingly hot so there is that……

THERE IS THAT!!! I am totally guilty of drooling all over purgatory!Dean and if Mark!Dean (Cain!Dean?) is as hot as that I will be in some sort of hotness heaven! :)

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure protective/supportive even is a viable option in terms of parallel storylines.

I agree with you here, and I guess that's what worries me a bit? Like, at least Dean had that going on when Sam had the mytharc, but I don't know what Sam has going on right now. Maybe because Dean has had the emotional POV for so long that I'm not seeing the switch being flipped now that Dean also has the mytharc.

But I'm not sure he has figured out a way to give weight to both storylines without buying into that formula.

Exactly this. How does Carver resolve this? Back when we had demon blood Sam, for example, he was the one that was getting beat up by fandom and Dean had all the sympathy. But now you have dark Dean and...he's still getting all the sympathy and Sam's the asshole.

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

the main problem is Sam won't get away with it at all

Dead on. I just said something similar to de_nugis about how Dean is still getting the sympathy during his dark arc, which is the complete opposite of Sam during his. And, honestly, I'm worried that Carver won't allow Sam to do the saving this time to prove whatever point he is trying to make, or even worse have Cas swoop in again at the last minute, or something else ridiculous. The logical part of my brain that knows this show has a hard-on for symmetry assures me that Sam will have to be the one to do it, but the larger part of my brain that despises Jeremy Carver is fighting me haha.

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

I've purposely avoided looking at any of the comments associated with it because I know it will get my hackles up. I can't really understand how people can have such a hate on for one of the two main characters, usually Sam. There are things both of them have done that I've really disliked but I've never hated either character, if I did, I don't hink I could watch the show.

I've been thinking for quite a while that Carver doesn't seem to like the characters he writes for, especially Sam. There are only a few episodes he's written where he doesn't seem to be purposely trying to make Sam out to be a bad guy. He's done one or two that are very sympathetic to Sam but the rest are all heavily sympathetic to Dean. For a show that's supposedly based on a tight brotherly bond and a great familial bond to each other it doesn't really add up.

You've remained more optimistic than me I'm afraid. I was very optimistic about this story arc in the beginning, I found it really exciting because it has so much potential but the last few episodes have kind of killed that optimism for me. The little speech Linda Tran made seemed to cement that they are trying to push the agenda that Dean is right doing absolutely anything if his motive is to keep them together as family, and Kevin telling them basically to get over it because it's stupid. I'm just not sure I want to keep watching a show that keeps rehashing the characters making the same mistakes over and over. It's not like I didn't want Dean to save Sam - of course I did - and it's not like I don't want them to get past it and be close again, I just want them to write Dean really finally understanding why Sam is so hurt and angry and acknowledging that he has every right to be, apologise properly and then have them move forward.

[destina.livejournal.com]

Cashing out is slang for either leaving the game, or dying. It is used colloquially in both senses. So Jensen could be referring to the fact that Sam lectured him about saving his life against his wishes.

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

Yep, you nailed it.

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of the pro-Dean and anti-Sam take of fandom is something that was set in stone a long time ago, and wouldn't be altered even by the most artistically amazing arc of all time, which helps me be zen about the fact that, while I think I agree with the point I think Carver is overall trying to make, there's no way this is going to be artistically great. Seriously, I feel like part of it is just that a larger number of people have lizard brains that say "woobie" when they see Jensen's face than have the equivalent reaction to Jared, and nothing canon does or doesn't do is ever going to alter that.

Meanwhile, the latest escalation of Sam-bashing to 11 has at least motivated me to turn off the internet and read medieval Latin more, which is all to the good, so thank you for that, Jensen!

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

You know, I really don't know about this. Jensen certainly comes off as being more method I suppose - but I haven't read much about their individual acting styles.

I just remember Jared talking in the official companion about how he's not a method actor, but he still found it hard filming Mystery Spot and going to that place of having to act out seeing his brother die. Jensen hasn't said if he is or not I don't think, but he does seem a bit more method from some of what I've heard, I.e having to walk off and take a break after filming one of the scenes of Dean crying on the impala

And I can understand Jensen feeling that Jared gets more of a chance to stretch with the many different versions of Sam that he gets to play, but at the same time playing something like soulless Sam or possessed Sam was arguably balanced out by Dean always getting a coherent character arc to play, while Sam does spend an awful lot of time not as himself and seems to be treated less as the audience POV character which doesn't do him as many favours. Dean does always get those long heartbroken monologues to let us in on what he's thinking and feeling! And I assume from exposure to fan conventions that Jensen is aware that he's the fan favourite and that some find Sam harder to like or relate too?

I've just never understood when he makes comments about the show being more focused on Sam, or it's good that Dean finally gets a place in the mythology too and it's not all just about Sam. He's made the occasional comment like that since season 4 and obviously much of the fandom does agree with those views, but I've just never seen it as Dean's character being neglected in the first three seasons? It wasn't like the mythology was a hugely important part of the show in seasons 1-3, yeah there were occasionally episodes on the psychic children or the yellow-eyed demon, but IMO the show was mostly focused on family and character themes which Dean had just a big a part to play in. Like I said in my last comment, the first half of season 2 had a ton of character work for Dean along those lines, but sometimes for interviews you get the feeling that Jensen sees it as the first three seasons being all about the mythology of Sam turning evil, when that was just one part of the show to me. Season 1's overriding arc was mostly about finding their father and avenging the yellow-eyed demon, which affected both boys equally, season 3 was mostly about Dean facing going to hell, and again the show equally explored the impact on both brothers IMO. Season 2 is the only time where you could maybe argue that Sam was treated more importantly because of the threat of going dark side, but so much of that was seen through Dean's eyes and the impact on him from his father telling him that

But anyway! Maybe Jensen's views are coloured by his character being so focused on Sam and protecting him, so he ended up seeing it as the show too is all about Sam idk? I just don't see how he can argue that it's all about Sam, even when Dean always gets so much screen time and story focus. It's hard for both brothers not to get plenty of attention in the writers room when they are the only two main characters

[gidgetgal9.livejournal.com]

This what ashtraythief said speaks for me too. So, I'll just add my thanks to it. :)