Jensen interview

[ash48]

Note: There are spoilers in the interview. Under the cut are spoilers for the Mark's affect on Dean only - and minor speculation.

Jensen's kindly given an interview to The Winchester Brothers on Winchester Radio recently (I suggest you avoid the comments in the above link if you want to avoid some nastiness. I accidentally saw some and decided to respond. I KNOW I shouldn't have done but dammit I was steaming). I actually read a transcript of the interview (and I've just seen that stir_of_echoes has created one also <3) rather than listen to it. I started to listen but found it a little…er…messy (which might have been because of nerves maybe).



I think missyjack said it best when she called Jensen the ultimate Dean!girl. :) And so he should be. Listening to him talk about Dean is wonderful and insightful. I love how supportive he is of the character and it has given me some insights to how he goes about playing him. I particularly love how he includes his experiences in Purgatory as something that drives Dean. We never see that (unfortunately!), but it's wonderful that Jensen's using it for inspiration.

It's also interesting to hear his take on Sam. Some of it I found hard to accept and I didn't agree with quite a bit of it, but I did find it interesting. I know that Jensen probably doesn't spent a lot of time analysing Sam's character (if at all), so it's not surprising that his comments are based on Dean's experience of Sam and not how he sees Sam fitting into the overall picture. Which makes sense because as an actor you are totally focused on your own character (I'm hoping Jared will do a similar interview because I'd love to hear his insights into Sam).

I wasn't totally thrilled by the pitch of some of the questions (in fact, it was a little disappointing that the interviewers weren't more objective and even handed with the questions) but there were some great questions that allowed Jensen to really talk about his character.

Some interesting comments he made:

Obviously, Dean is willing to go all-in and keep the family together, and keep the brothers moving down the road and it seems that more and more, Sam is willing to cash out and he’s not willing to put his life on the line the way that Dean is.

Not going to deny that this comment really took me aback. I have no idea what "cash out" means but if this is the Sam we are going to be seeing in the future it might well be the final straw for me. I'm not quite sure what Jensen's take on 8.23 was but Sam was completely ready to put his life on the line for the greater good. And er….end S5? Though I will accept that Jensen might be channeling Dean and thinks that Sam won't lay his life on the line for Dean. Which is crazy of course, but it's something Dean would absolutely be feeling (though if Show decides that actually Sam WON'T lay his life on the line for Dean then it's not the show I originally started watching so it'll be all over red rover for me).


That’s a tough pill for Dean to swallow, and I think the only way he’s dealing with it is by not dealing with it.

That's a really interesting observation and I think that's definitely true. I love that he mentioned this because I've wondered if Dean not acknowledging what Sam has suffered is part of him just not wanting to deal. We've seen Dean shut down more and more I think.


The mark of Cain has given him a simplicity in his thoughts that’s allowing him to ignore the complexity of their relationship right now and focus on the prize, which is Abbadon at this point

Fair call..but…um….Abbadon is the prize? I thought Gadreel was on the top of Dean's list? Not sure exactly how Addadon became top priority. Maybe it's because it's what Crowley wants? I'm trying to remember why Addadon is such a thorn in Dean's side - considering she hasn't really featured much this season (or last for that matter). Curious.


So, I think the line between black and white is becoming almost dangerously clear, the grey areas are becoming less and less as far as Dean is concerned.

Awesome! The Mark is going to be really interesting for Dean. Seeing a cold (almost soulless) Dean is going to give Jensen some great stuff to work with and will be great to watch.


Yeah, for a long time there were a lot of different storylines going on, mostly revolving around Sam, and what the story was doing to Sam although a lot of it, it could be said was being seen through Dean’s perspective, the story was always, kind of about Sam and what was going on internally with him

Pretty much what we all know and have said for a while. Though not sure how "what was going on internally with him" means as we don't get a lot on what's going on with him internally. I mean, we get the angst but we don't get to see the result of all the crap that happens to him. But I get it - from Dean's perspective stuff is ALWAYS happening to Sam (and my god it really is!) and I kinda get the sense that Jensen is happy for the "stuff" is now going to be happening to him.

Which I'm pretty darn excited by too. He also talks about the roles reversing - which makes me wonder if we'll get to watch Dean's story through Sam's eyes now? I think that would be pretty cool if handled right.


Yeah, Sam’s a real selfish asshole is what it boils down to (laughs)

It is true, Sam seems to be a little preoccupied and maybe it’s a little brother thing. Maybe he’s

“You’re my big brother you can figure it out yourself.”

But that’s a contrast to the way Dean thinks as in, “I’m the big brother and I have to protect my little brother from harm.” That’s kind of been his creed for as long as he can remember so I think that they both kind of come at it from different angles. Sam is more willing to allow for things to happen as they happen and it’s a Sam-centric world in his mind, and I think it always has been and I think it’s been a Sam-centric show for a long time

Yeah. I probably should just let this go. I know Jensen said some of this in jest but if even Jensen thinks Sam's an asshole what the hell hope do any of us have that think he's not. *sigh* And Sam is Sam-centric? Yeah, saving the world was all about Sam. Trying to trade himself for Dean in hell was clearly all about Sam. Sam continuing to hunt, save people, listen and help people is only because Sam thinks about himself. Clearly. (I know I am coming across as some sort of bitter Sam!girl, but I seriously must be watching a different show if, after everything, Sam is still considered selfish). I am aware that Jensen is talking about the characters and it makes sense that that is what Dean would be thinking - but even then Dean KNOWS Sam is not selfish - he's seen first hand the things Sam has been willing to do for others. I suppose it's fair that Jensen might think that though - considering a lot of fandom thinks the same.

What does come across clearly is Jensen wanting something more for his character. And I don't blame him. When we look back and think about everything that has happened to Sam it's pretty epic. Jared has been able to play all sorts of characters - many different versions of Sam. Jensen hasn't really had that opportunity, so I think Jensen has a right to be feeling pretty over Jared getting all the cool stuff. Jensen plays "dark" very well (end!verse Dean is still one of my fav Deans) and I think the Mark is going to give him some great material to work with. Oooh, we still might get to see 2014!Dean emerge. That would be wicked if they somehow gave us that future version of Dean - what a cool tie in.


Whether he protects him because of the fear of loneliness, whatever the reason is, I don’t think Dean sits in his bed and psychoanalyses himself all that much.

Definitely. And interestingly it's coming across exactly like that. WE do! But Dean doesn't. Even non-Mark Dean wouldn't contemplate his motivations too much. He just is.


Winchester Radio: To that end, are there any decisions that Dean has made over the years that you could revisit and possibly alter in some way?

What would be the issue if you were to do so?

Jensen: Not invite Gadreel into Sam. That would be number one on the list.

*phew* I'm glad we're on the same page about that. And he, like me, understands that what Dean did is all part of the story telling. This isn't Jensen saying he didn't what that for Dean, but rather knowing that Dean would want do-over on that one decision.


I have to say this interview hasn't given me a lot of hope for the storyline exploring Sam being possessed against his will (not that Jensen would know or possibly worry about). It's just not on their radar. I probably have to accept that if I want to continue to enjoy the season (and series actually). I just have to accept that, much like last season, the reasons for why Sam is behaving in a certain way is not an issue - just that what he's doing is enough to create a reaction from Dean. And now that the story is moving to the Mark (and Dean changing because of it), there will be even less focus on Dean feeling/learning/growing from anything he's done. In fact, Sam's attitude is likely to be driving him toward that darkness. Sam will just have to move on (*fandom cheers*) and forget that the first part of the season even happened for him. I could be wrong and they may well integrate Sam's past experiences into his story arc, but I can't see it. Though I suspect we'll be watching Sam fight for his brother - which will be cool too. At this point it's the only thing I can imagine happening that will calm down all the hate.

It's so wonderful that Jensen gave up his time to give this interview. It's a shame that it will (already has) created even more of the Sam v Dean crap. I ranted on tumblr about all that so I won't repeat it here. Needless to say I am totally over it and I think I might be joining fellow fans and remaining off fandom sites until the storyline allows people to actually behave civilly.

That said, I am more than happy to discuss the interview as long there's no nastiness - for either Sam, Dean or Jensen.

Comments

[stormcloude]

"Cash out" is a gambling term, I think. It means to turn in your chips for cash and leave.

I'm not happy with the things he said about Sam. But then again I'm not Jensen's biggest fan, so it doesn't really surprise me.

Jared has been able to play all sorts of characters... And Jensen has gotten to play against all sorts of characters. But do you think we'll get that reversal now that Dean gets the mytharc and the POV?

Okay, this is really sad to me: I just have to accept that, much like last season, the reasons for why Sam is behaving in a certain way is not an issue - just that what he's doing is enough to create a reaction from Dean.

So now Sam is just a prop for Dean to play off of and drive Dean's actions? What's happened to this show?

[ash48.livejournal.com]

"Cash out" is a gambling term, I think. It means to turn in your chips for cash and leave.

Hmmm, I had a feeling it referred to leaving. Doesn't make a lot of sense considering Sam didn't do that at all. Maybe he means in terms of the relationship.

But do you think we'll get that reversal now that Dean gets the mytharc and the POV?

A gal can hope! I think it would be an interesting direction for them to take. If Dean goes dark side he won't be a reliable narrator, so it might get to see Dean via Sam. Not sure how that might work, but as he talks about role reversal we might see it.

So now Sam is just a prop for Dean to play off of and drive Dean's actions? What's happened to this show?

Well, it just might be me being cynical. So far the possession hasn't been important - other than it causing the rift, so I'd be surprised if they suddenly explore how that might have affected Sam. I think Sam's reaction will play a part in driving Dean away (I think Jensen even mentions that) so yeah, Sam's response is probably more about how it affects Dean. But I may be wrong - I think that even though the show gives us more about why Dean is feeling stuff we do get enough snippets to get some insights into Sam. Sam seems to be working out what forgivable and what's not - so the possession angle might be re-visited.

We shall see!

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

Like you my biggest concern is that Jensen is telling us that eventually the story will be all about Dean the good brother who saved Sam his miserable, selfish excuse for a brother and Sam should go down on his knees and thank Dean for possessing him. If that is how this goes, I will be out as well. To me the consent issues are the important ones here and if they aren't dealt with then I have no hope that my show will ever give a fair look at Sam. And I'm about to cry right now.

I'm pinning my hopes on believing that this was Jensen speaking from Dean's mindset, not what I can expect to see for the rest of this season. I also recognize that Jensen may have been under a strict, no spoiler rule which could be why he answered the way he did.

I was unhappy with the absolute refusal last season to look at why Sam did things. I knew Carver said he had a three year plan and I intended to give him the entire three years to see where he was going. But if this season ends with little or no Sam POV and blaming Sam for not wanting to be possessed against his will, I don't know if I will be able to watch the final season, it will be just too painful.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

And I'm about to cry right now.

I've been there. I actually shed a tear after reading the interview (and those consequent comments). I then pulled myself together and tried to see it as the way Dean would be looking at Sam. And actually Jensen gave away very little - I also suspect that if there are any scenes where Sam and Dean are a apart Jensen won't know what's happened to Sam anyway.

I feel like I need to brace myself for the upcoming storm - and not in the nice way that's about sharing this bumpy journey. More in the way that if they don't give us more on where Sam's head is at (and in a way that makes sense) I'm not sure I'll be strong enough to carry on (ha…sounds so melodramatic).

I remember how I felt after the brothers got back together last season. Sam's story was totally unresolved and the reunion felt more like it happened out of necessity rather than something they both wanted. I cried then too. I just hope we don't have that again.

But I am still very hopeful that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Knowing that Carver wrote two of the most bro positive (and Sam strong) episodes ever gives me a lot of hope.

I also recognize that Jensen may have been under a strict, no spoiler rule which could be why he answered the way he did.

Yeah, and I wonder if any of that was said in order to stir up a reaction. I'm not sure how cynical I should be on all this. He really could only say stuff that reflects how his character is feeling - so I suppose that makes sense.

Man, it's going to be a long road to the finale me thinks.

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

Oh wow. That was kind of. Um...

If the way Jensen has portrayed the storyline going is the way it's going down, I'm not sure it will hold my interest through season ten. If they really do make this about Dean being the selfless hero and Sam being ungrateful and selfish, I'm going to be seriously disappointed.

It'll be interesting if Sam has to fight for his brother if Dean goes darkside but if it's all just to make Dean the ultimate hero and Sam the bad guy then it will ruin it for me. I've never seen one brother as better than the other and I've never seen Sam as the bad guy, just a guy that made some bad choices through extenuating circumstances. I think Dean has made some pretty bad choices too. I'm kind of fed up with them demonizing (no pun intended) Sam.

I was hopeful that the current storyline would have been a chance for Dean to grow and learn like Sam has and have the brothers build a whole new level to their relationship but this interview really makes it sound like all of it will be swept under the rug again and frankly, that would be tiresome. If things just keep going in circles like 'save my brother at any cost' followed by 'everything backfires because of it', rinse and repeat, then the show won't hold my interest anymore. Too much repetitiveness just gets boring.

It was great Jensen gave his time for this but the interview made me cringe.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

If they really do make this about Dean being the selfless hero and Sam being ungrateful and selfish, I'm going to be seriously disappointed.

Personally I will be weeping into my pillow, but I HAVE to believe that Carver preparing to explore both character arcs. It feels like there's been this huge set up to explore some really deep issues for both of them but if this has all been about making one brother "right" over the other then it will all be for nothing. Last season I don't think either brother was treated particularly nicely (I wonder if Carver actually likes these characters?) and it looks like he's treating them much the same way this season.

I can only hope he's got a cunning (and wonderful) plan that sees both brothers being treated fairly.

It was great Jensen gave his time for this but the interview made me cringe.

I have to admit my heart sank at a few moments. There was some great stuff there too but all I was thinking was how much this will stir up even more Sam hate. And it has. :( (and I believe Jensen has copped some too. *sigh*)

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

I was wondering if you were going to do a post about this interview lol.

I think that there's probably a lot of character bleed happening, in the sense that right now Dean is feeling hurt and angry and alone (amplified 100x by the mark) so that is where Jensen's head is at in the moment. We should also remember that he said he hasn't read past 9.20, so we have no idea how the last 3 episodes of the season will turn out. I've always been saying for awhile (here on your journal!) that we would get dark Dean and that it will spill over into S10, mainly because I think Carver is (badly) re-doing S4 in his own image. It's a long road if that's the case.

My concern with that is that if you flip that dynamic (and I have no issue with it since I'm glad Jensen gets something fun to play), but maintain Sam as the ~asshole vs. how Dean played the protective/support role, then it becomes really one-sided. I also think at this point, perhaps Sam doesn't think he has the right to play that role for Dean while they are in the middle of this angst after everything he said to him.

The worst thing is that Jensen (unintentionally, I'm sure) just handed the Sam-haters quotes for their tumblr graphics for years to come lol.

In conclusion: Carver's the worst

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure protective/supportive even is a viable option in terms of parallel storylines. The kind of supportive Dean was during the Trials would be totally off for a darkside!Dean arc, and at the equivalent points in s4/s5 Dean wasn't exactly emotionally supportive Dean to Sam, and it wouldn't have worked character or themewise if he had been. And protective, though I do hope Sam will get to do some Dean-saving, is a loaded thing at the moment: the idea that protection should take the form of overriding its object, or of extreme and damaging measures, is exactly what they are fighting about. Since Sam (and, I think, fundamentally the show) is at this point opposed to a lot of the "big gestures" the interviewers seem to want (deals and forced possession -- don't get me started on what I think of presenting Gadreel as some wonderful thing Dean did for his little brother), a lot of role reversal avenues are closed off. I don't know how Carver will handle this, but I don't think having the same family dynamic with parts exchanged will be it, because I really do think that Carver, however clumsily, is serious about critiquing the basis of that family dynamic. But I'm not sure he has figured out a way to give weight to both storylines without buying into that formula.

For the rest, I actually think some of what's going on is the opposite of character bleed. Jensen's conflation of Samcentric show (as he sees it) and Samcentric Sam (also as he sees it) seems to me like some of his feelings as an actor about the distribution of the storylines is getting projected onto Jensen/Dean's read of Sam.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I've found some of Jensen's interviews rather strange in the past if I'm honest. I.e when Sera took over as show runner and he was talking about being uncomfortable with how soft Dean was being written as, even though it was Kripke who set up Dean wanting the apple pie life in earlier seasons and it was an obvious character choice to show him in that life with Lisa and Ben before Sam's return shock him up. I'm not sure how to put this exactly, but I've noticed that Jarad has generally been more gung-ho over getting to play evil Sam if it means something different, ditto with the brother rivalry and stuff like that, while Jensen seems very protective of his character and to emphasise with Dean a lot more? I think that Jarad has said that he's not a method actor, and I guess that Jensen is?

He's never been so blunt about Sam before, and in not sure what to think abut that :( It does sound like was saying it in a jokey way, but saying that your characters brother is a real selfish asshole still seems an odd way of putting it to me and makes me angry if I'm honest, so I'll try not to say too much about that!

Sam is more willing to allow for things to happen as they happen and it’s a Sam-centric world in his mind, and I think it always has been and I think it’s been a Sam-centric show for a long time

I've always thought that was ridiculous. I remember in season 4 Jensen was talking about it being great that he could finally be a part in the mythology and that it wasn't all about Sam any more, but I don't see how Dean wasn't treated equally in Screen-time and focus just because he didn't have the exact same issues as Sam fearing the demons having a plan for him. He had huge story arcs with dealing with the death of his father, most of the first half of season 2 was all about Dean in that respect, not to mention preparing to go to hell in season 3 had a lot of character beats for Dean as well. I just don't understand why he seems to feel hard done-by when if anything Dean is treated as the audience POV character and gets more screen time than Sam. Him and Jared even joked in the past over his jealously over Jared getting a week off and Jarad only having like one scene in the episode to film, while Jensen had to carry the time-travel episode. But every so often he seems to come up with these comments on it being all about Sam and now he can now finally have a part in the mythology

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I think that Jarad has said that he's not a method actor, and I guess that Jensen is?

You know, I really don't know about this. Jensen certainly comes off as being more method I suppose - but I haven't read much about their individual acting styles.

I suspect Jensen would like to have some "fun" with his character also. Maybe? He's watched Jared have scenes where he's switched between Sam and Gadreel and probably thought…that would be cool to do! Also, Jared has been so excited about playing those twin roles maybe Jensen wants in on that too.

Interesting that Jensen mentions Purgatory- it sounds like he loved playing those scenes (and couldn't we just tell watching him on the screen?!) and he's probably disappointed that story line didn't go anywhere. Maybe it's partly why they've given him the Mark storyline - it might be a bit like purgatory!Dean.

so I'll try not to say too much about that!

ha! I've held back to. I admit to thinking…noooooooooooooo! Not you too!! (and I didn't actually listen to him say it, so it may well have been said differently to I imagine from the transcript).

I just don't understand why he seems to feel hard done-by when if anything Dean is treated as the audience POV character and gets more screen time than Sam.

Hmmm..maybe being the pov character doesn't feel like it's much. I think because Jensen proved how good he was at emoting (that single perfect tear!) they've given him the emotional story arc whereas Jared has been given the "action" I suppose. To me, both characters have had great story lines. I have no problem with them giving Dean the Mark (in fact I'm excited by it) but it will depend how all this plays out and what impact it has on the relationship.

I wish both guys would speak up and say they'd love to see the brothers back on even footing. Watching them at such odds is just downright painful (and tiring).

[tarynelliott.livejournal.com]

Sigh. All this backlash means Jensen will probably button his mouth and not talk as per usual.

I thought it was a great interview. Jensen's dry sense of humor doesn't translate well to transcript.

Jensen has been nothing but pro-SPN and he felt comfortable enough to talk candidly about the Dean char and most of his answers were Dean's POV. There was probably some Jensen bleed in there, but honestly...it always has been the Sam show.

If you were an actor wouldn't you get sick of always being the support rather than the main story?

They brought this awesome MOC story in and then didn't really touch on it again. Instead they have Jensen go with a nuanced portrayal of an increasingly angry, emotionless Dean.

I love that Jensen actually have us a little insight into the season but didn't really give us any details. I know I'll be paying attention the next few eps especially.

And the interview itself was very one sided. I'm sure the WB peeps were just nervous but man...no interaction. "That's interesting" is not a good way to get into a good dialogue. Especially when Jensen was so open and friendly.

I really hope Ayisha Tyler gets him on Girl on Guy. She gives good interview. I love both of Jared's w her.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I would hope having a civil discussion isn't something that would mean Jensen buttons his mouth (though I don't know how it's been received elsewhere). As I said above, I thought the interview was great. I love much of Jensen's insights. I've always admired him as an actor and I feel we are blessed that he gave us an interview.

I admit to having a personal interest in Sam's story so all I am doing here is trying to work out what might be in store for that part of the story line. It's also my way of bracing for things that might be to come. I've been having an extremely hard time with all the Sam hate so it's nice (for me) to have a place I can discuss stuff like this in a safe-(ish) place . I can't deny that some of the things that were said hit close for me, but that's just because I feel for a lot for Sam.

I love that Jensen actually have us a little insight into the season but didn't really give us any details. I know I'll be paying attention the next few eps especially.

Oh me too!!

And I would LOVE Ayisha Tyler to get Jensen on. Her interviews with Jared were fabulous. :))

[ashtraythief.livejournal.com]

As always, a very insightful post. Thanks :)

I have decided to just lean back and ogle the pretty. Give in to the shallowness if you will :) and hope that Carver indeed has a plan.

I'm glad you continue to make these posts, even if they can be painful at times. So I guess what I meant to say is: thanks for still being an active part of fandom even if it can be sucky. Your posts always make me feel better about the show.

[gidgetgal9.livejournal.com]

This what ashtraythief said speaks for me too. So, I'll just add my thanks to it. :)

[destina.livejournal.com]

Cashing out is slang for either leaving the game, or dying. It is used colloquially in both senses. So Jensen could be referring to the fact that Sam lectured him about saving his life against his wishes.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oooh, yes. I see. I thought it might have meant much the same as "selling out" which I just couldn't reconcile.

[counteragent.livejournal.com]

UGH WHY DID I READ THIS I MEANT NOT TO CLICK I REALLY MEANT NOT TO.

I...need to think about something other than this show.

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

Small portable bloodhounds. I've been reading odd medieval legends with small portable bloodhounds in them. It's very soothing. And it's reminding me that if I look at fannish experience from a bit of artificial distance it is full of interesting sidelights on fictionality that I would never have noticed if I hadn't gotten aboard for the trainwreck.

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

We are watching a different show. Which is why I'm speed-dating other fandoms.

The last straw for me was going to an SPN panel at Escapade (I wasn't going to, but long story, I felt I needed to)—the entire room full of people sat and talked round-robin about how Sam was such a selfish, clueless, oblivious asshole. One person (and I happen to know she's not a Sam girl) spoke up and tried to offer a mitigating view. She was shot down and talked over. I left.

Can't do it any more.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Which is why I'm speed-dating other fandoms.

The speed dating looks like fun. I think the Musketeers are looking DAMN FINE from where I'm sitting. ;))

The entire room full of people sat and talked round-robin about how Sam was such a selfish, clueless, oblivious asshole.

Argh. I can't even. I just. Can't. I.

What.

I

:(

[laurificus.livejournal.com]

I'm not known for measured and optimistic reactions where this show is concerned, but the interview didn't upset me nearly as much as I thought it would when I just saw people talking about the content. I'd rather have hat some suggestion that there's light in the distance,and I'd rather fandom hadn't been given any more ammo to use against Sam, but I really do think he's mostly talking from Dean's perspective. He even says Sam *seems* like he won't do anything, and that's exactly what Dean's supposed to be feeling. More than that, I think it is what we, as viewers, are supposed to suspect, because otherwise there's no tension in the story.

The way they've set this up, the only satisfying resolution it, or so it seems to me, is Sam finally getting to save Dean in a big way, and Dean finally getting past the idea that Sam is selfish and doesn't love him. And if Dean goes down a darker path, he'll also understand Sam and demon blood a whole lot more. I have doubted for a long time that anything good could come from this, but the longer it goes on, the more I believe they can come out of it stronger.

Nothing here suggests to me that they're not going there eventually -- if anything, i think it confirms it. On the other hannd, I almost always fear the worst for this show and am wrong. We shouldn't discount the possibility that I am just fundamentally incapable of reading it right.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I love your positive response to the interview and it's given me more hope. I think it's very important that jensen talks in terms of what's going on for Dean at the moment - and not give anything away. I see him very much talking from Dean's pov - which makes sense. As an actor he'd be getting into Dean's headspace and totally believing what he needs to - even that Sam wouldn't save him if his life was threatened.

We shouldn't discount the possibility that I am just fundamentally incapable of reading it right.

Let's hope not! I'd love for this to fulfil my hopes for both Sam and Dean.
Thanks!
xx

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

I actually think this whole thing is fascinating (HERESY, lol) in terms of how Ackles thinks and talks about this person he's been living with for a decade? Because I do think that what he's saying here is absolutely what *Dean* has been saying to himself for some time now, even though I as a viewer think it's pretty clear that the character is repressing a lot of subconscious misgivings about his own mindset. And I just am so curious as to how much Ackles has to get himself to believe about Dean what Dean believes about himself? Because he says stuff like this, but he also put together an episode like Heartache, which still stands out to me as one of the show's most pointedly critical about Dean's attitude toward his brother.

This is a big part of why I'm as blase as I am about authorial intent, not so much because artists are necessarily incorrect, per se, but because I don't believe they necessarily realize everything they're communicating. (Or, alternatively, he's not as deft at tap-dancing around spoilers as Carver and Padalecki seem to be, and so sticking to "what Dean is thinking" is how he avoids giving away what will happen.)

Fair call..but…um….Abbadon is the prize? I thought Gadreel was on the top of Dean's list? Not sure exactly how Addadon became top priority.

IMO Abbadon is a part of Dean's Not Dealing precisely because she's not connected to the whole Gadreel thing. If Dean goes after Gadreel, he can't avoid what he did, but if he convinces himself that Abbadon is the priority then he (thinks he) can avoid it under the guise of ~more important things. (Shades of John spending the '90s going after every monster under the sun except the YED.)

Yeah, saving the world was all about Sam. Trying to trade himself for Dean in hell was clearly all about Sam. Sam continuing to hunt, save people, listen and help people is only because Sam thinks about himself. Clearly. (I know I am coming across as some sort of bitter Sam!girl, but I seriously must be watching a different show if, after everything, Sam is still considered selfish). I am aware that Jensen is talking about the characters and it makes sense that that is what Dean would be thinking - but even then Dean KNOWS Sam is not selfish - he's seen first hand the things Sam has been willing to do for others.

This is actually encouraging to me though? Dean's perspective is so blatantly at odds with what's happened that it can't be supported by the narrative. If it was arguably true but still really unflattering, I'd be worried that the show could go in that direction, but something this far out in left field pretty much has to be wrong.

I suspect we'll be watching Sam fight for his brother - which will be cool too. At this point it's the only thing I can imagine happening that will calm down all the hate.

I honestly don't think it would? If the amount Sam has done for Dean hasn't sunk in for people, they're not going to turn around and get it after one more Heartwarming Moment (TM). They'll either deny it forever or get it when Dean gets it, and Dean will get it when he wants to get it.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I very much believe that Jensen would be in Dean's headspace and only understand where Dean is coming from - he wouldn't spend much time thinking about Sam's pov.

but because I don't believe they necessarily realize everything they're communicating.

Nor do they see the overall picture. I remember Jared saying once that he liked finding out what happens to Sam at the same time Sam does - so as an actor he goes on the same journey as Sam. I suspect the same is true for Jensen. Dean may well be on a journey of understanding Sam more, but it's probably not something he wants to speculate on at the moment.

(I also think the nature of the interview lead to the way many of the questions were answered).

IMO Abbadon is a part of Dean's Not Dealing precisely because she's not connected to the whole Gadreel thing.

Yes yes. I think this now too. I think the fact that Gadreel has hardly been mentioned is part of the not dealing. If it's mentioned it reminds Dean of what he's done. This makes sense to me now. :)

This is actually encouraging to me though?

I'm glad! It was this part I found so difficult. I couldn't reconcile that Jensen didn't see everything that Sam had done. I like the idea that it's so blatant that it's obvious that it's part of Dean's lack of seeing Sam for what he's done. Maybe even part of the Mark storyline.

They'll either deny it forever or get it when Dean gets it, and Dean will get it when he wants to get it.

I think so too. Fans are hurt because Dean's been hurt. Maybe when it's all sorted they'll find a way to embrace Sam again (though for the deeply entrenched haters I suspect nothing will change their feelings. That said, they really can't be enjoying the show if they feel like that anyway).

Thanks for your positive spin. Let's hope that the signals we are seeing mean that maybe they'll be respecting Sam's side of the story rather than simply be there to create Dean's emotions.

xx

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

Hmm.. I'm beginning to think that nowadays it's much easier to enjoy the show when not being around fandom too much... I went over to check out the comments and put a like on yours. ;) Like I said before, salt and holy water. Some fans surely appear possessed by demons... (not sure though how well your computer screen would have taken to having water splashed onto it. lol)

*hugs* ♥

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ha! Holy water on my computer. :DDD

Thanks for the like! I came across that comment and I just couldn't let it go (though probably should have). I think fans who watch the show and don't participate in on-line fandom probably have a much easier time during times like this.

*huggles*

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I suppose the backlash (which I haven't seen and to be honest dont' want to see) was inevitable. I was interested but also discouraged by Jensen's analysis of Sam though I think actually it's coloured more by Jensen's attitude to Jared rather than Dean's to Sam. Jensen has frequently joked about Sam's character at conventions in part to get a rise out of Jared, and I've never noticed Jared doing the same about Dean. I wonder if this is in part due to the fact that Jared has had much more satisfaction over the years in the challenges of playing so many different versions of Sam that Jensen kind of envies? But that also means Jensen has lived in Dean's skin almost permanently over the 9 years whereas Jared has been all these different Sams, so Jensen is perhaps more invested and defensive of Dean than Jared is of Sam.

I echo your sentiments over the bits that could be something squee-worthy - and having heard Jensen's take on Dean becoming more like his Dad, wonder if that is something the show might actually do to him - lead us into a much more ruthless character who would both resemble John and 2014!Dean. It would be both exciting and sad...

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

You could be right there. As an actor, Jared has by far the most interesting and challenging role because he has gotten to play multiple characters whilst still actually only playing the same character so he has gotten to flex his acting muscle in different directions. Jensen got to do that to a lesser extent on Dark Angel playing both Ben and Alec which I'm sure he loved but for the past nine years he's been only Dean and a leviathan. Jared has been Sam, Meg, Lucifer, a leviathan, Ezekiel and Gadreel.

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of darkside Mark!Dean. If done properly, this has the potential to be AWESOME. I'm also with you on being confused over Dean's pursuit of Abaddon -- though she kinda was the number-one demonic target of S8, Gadreel certainly knocked her off the pedestal in S9. Still . . . I betcha Gadreel is Sam's number-one target now. ;) IDK, I'm still hoping that the boys get to take down Abaddon and Gadreel -- in Winchesterian tandem, as they once did in days of yore. We shall see . . . *adjusts rose-colored glasses*

I'll still be watching for your posts and a handful of other level-headed fangirls, but yeah, I'm avoiding fandom-at-large until people learn to behave civilly. *hugs*

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Hear hear!

EDIT: and here's to darkside!Dean...mommy liiiikes!

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I knew this interview would be contentious. I don't think I let it get to me as much as many, and I've streamlined the polarized factions out of my social media so I don't have to put up with it.

It's really clear to me that the actors have to worry about their ONE character, and the rest of the story/characters are small potatoes. And hey, that's their job. That's the way it has to be.

Yeah, I disagreed with a good handful of things Jensen said (and they've already been addressed up-thread) but I was SUPER happy he quickly and emphatically stated that the Gadreel thing is the one misadventure he wished Dean hadn't done.

As I said earlier, I just wish I had more faith in Carver and company to pen a good episode and guide this storyline into more balanced territory. I do suspect Sam will be put in a position of having to sacrifice himself for Dean's salvation, Sam will do it (or try to), and Dean will begin to see things more clearly. But we shall see. *crosses fingers, toes, eyes, you name it!*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I admit I wasn't fully prepared for the content of the interview - I read it before I had seen any reactions, so some of it churned me up a bit. But discussing it here has helped me put things into perspective. It was great to get some insights into Dean's character. And I love hearing about the way Jensen plays him.

I too wish I had more faith. It's a roller coaster - sometimes I think he's being rather clever, other times I think he has no clue. A balanced and solid storyline for both boys would be awesome.

[cherry916.livejournal.com]

I've read a lot of what was said, didn't personally listen for myself (I get second hand embarrassment waaaay to often) and on tumblr it was basically a blow up between girls defending Jensen or being upset with him. Just another point of contention in fandom really.

However, a lot of what he said was rather confusing and left me with less hope about Sam's consent issues ever really being resolved like they should be. I kind of dreaded them doing their famous 'sweep under the rug' routine with Dean coming out as being right.

I was hoping that since the issue hasn't been resolved soon that we might get some real closure, but now my hands are up in the air. I really don't know.

I mean, the podcast didn't reveal too too much. All I really gleamed is Jensen is wanting to have some great storylines come to his character. Can't really blame him honestly.

However, the big question I have is this, like you said a lot of what Jensen said was in jest. From what I heard the interviewers (who of course are fans themselves) kept baiting Jensen by leading the conversation about Sam in a negative light.

It could have been Sam haters giving the interview, I mean they're everywhere. But how much does Jensen really think it's true? Thinks that that is what DEAN himself thinks? If he honestly believes that is how Dean sees his brother....we have bigger issues than I thought.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

There was definitely some second-hand embarrassment happening for me, but hey, until I walk a mile in their shoes I should bite my tongue. Fingers. Whatever. ;) I don't know whether the interviewers leaned one way or the other but they were probably leaning Dean-ward during that interview because they had Jensen on the line. Being courteous to the guest and all.

You bring up a good point: Jensen can't really tell the audience what he thinks because he may have inside info that he can't divulge; it's safest to comment from Dean's POV.

*shrug!*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Randomly wandering into any sort of hate is unpleasant. :( I'm lucky that most people comment here with a measured attitude. :))

xx

[auntmo9.livejournal.com]

I really don't have much to add. I read this earlier this morning but did not have time to comment due to RL. But I thought about it off and on all day. And many of my thoughts have been expressed much better by others here. I am also am thankful I dont spend much time on tumblr other than to look at pictures/gifs. Once again, I value you and everyone that comes here for being able to have such a thoughtful conversation about topics like these.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi! It is great that people make such thoughtful comments. I'm always scared that I'm going to get those shallow, hateful comments but so far they've been pretty limited. *phew*
<3

[becc-j.livejournal.com]

Thank you for sharing your notes and thoughts about the interview <3 I wasn't 100% sure how to take some of his comments, mostly I felt he was trying to say something but hedging a lot because he can't reveal much and maybe trying to make jokes that fell a bit flat because of lack of feedback from the interviewers.
I'm really unsure what's going to happen, but I do know that I can rely on your blog and the blog of one or two others to share your opinions in constructive ways.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi,

Thanks. :) And yes, I think the nature of the interview led him off in certain directions and he couldn't really say a lot for the future episode. Good to hear some of his thoughts on Dean though.
xx

[abrakadabrah.livejournal.com]

I particularly love how he includes his experiences in Purgatory as something that drives Dean. We never see that (unfortunately!), but it's wonderful that Jensen's using it for inspiration.

I'm really surprised you haven't noticed that -- it just seems obvious to me -- it especially effected season 8, but it is still here now -- it took him past his drinking addiction (until recently because of the Sam rift) and past his self doubt phase and depression and made him decisive again -- all very much in evidence since last year. We got a new version of Dean post Purgatory, unlike the Gamble era Dean, who was wallowing in misery and depression and addiction all the time and much less fun. In Purgatory, he regained a sure sense of self and self worth -- and all of that has been evident in Jensen's portrayal of Dean. It embues the way he fights and the way he responds to situations. It made him re-turn to his strength of being action-man, which he had to be par-excellence in order to survive Purgatory. And Benny was his perfect complement for that period. It changed the way he fights. It's watered down now, so much later, but still there as a character motivation in the way Dean behaves.

On another note, part of the problem in the Dean/Sam current relationship, is that Sam is changing the paradigm between them -- which always creates tension between the parties as the one who has not changed is made to feel so passive and in the wrong -- but he is also not explaining anything at all to Dean -- he is just stating categoricals. And none of this is backed up by explanations -- all of this would be easier if Sam explained some of what is going on in his head to Dean. But Sam is sticking to his dignity and to mysteries and doesn't explain himself at all. So, of course, Dean is misunderstanding Sam -- seems the writers intend that to be the case, and for Dean through the course of the year, feeling more and more out on a limb and less and less able to trust Sam. And that is a tension that has resurfaced several times in the course of the story -- most notably Season 4 and parts of Season 5. And early 6 as well. So, it's not precisely surprising for that tension to be part of the story again. Just off the top of my head, it could be part of the reveal in the finale or the last few episodes -- what exactly Sam has meant specifically by what he has told Dean.

And Sam is Sam-centric? Yeah, saving the world was all about Sam.

Um, yeah. He's not doing it out of selfishness -- but yeah, Sam is the chosen warrior who must sacrifice himself to save the world. And Dean is his helpmeet. And now Sam must sacrifice himself. And feels worthy/entitled to be the sacrifice because of his unique path as, among other things, the vessel for Lucifer. Yeah, that is a story all about Sam.

Do you also think Jesus sacrificing himself to save the world and the people in it, to use that as a handy comparison, does not put Jesus at the center of the Christian religion?

And just as Sam came back from that experience changed in some ways, reborn, and wants new limits to his relationships, Dean, who was in Purgatory for a year, came back changed. I'm still surprised you haven't noticed that about Dean. Seems so obvious in his enactment of the character. Sorry if I'm dwelling on this point, but it's been fundamental.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I'm really surprised you haven't noticed that -- it just seems obvious to me

Well, you know, I have to say I hadn't connected those dots. With your explanation here I'm surprised I didn't either. I mean, I did see that change in Dean and I loved it. I saw it more as a resetting back to and earlier version of Dean and I didn't really connect that to his time in Purgatory. I think because once the Purgatory part of the story was done in S8 it was hardly referred to again and I didn't continue to give it much thought on how it shaped Dean from S8 onwards. My "unfortunately" comes from a place of wishing we had got to see some more of that. I loved the idea of Purgatory being "pure" for Dean - which I think was a great moment in understanding Dean a lot more. Aside from him actually making that remark I didn't feel we got a lot more on what that exactly meant to Dean. But yes, I can totally accept that it was Dean's Pugartory experience that's shaped him the last 2 seasons and not just a random "resetting".

On another note, part of the problem in the Dean/Sam current relationship, is that Sam is changing the paradigm between them

Yes. I think it's a good point and one that the Show is definitely using to create the tension. If Sam came out clearly and said what he means or that how (and why) things are changing for him it would make it a lot easier on Dean (and probably fandom because their frustration is spilling out onto Sam for not being clearer). I think because I see a clear picture of why Sam is behaving this way (and I admit that I tend to do this more easily for Sam than I do for Dean) I have been confused about the backlash that Sam has received. But show is manipulating the tension and the relationship so I know it's all part of that.

Just off the top of my head, it could be part of the reveal in the finale or the last few episodes -- what exactly Sam has meant specifically by what he has told Dean.

Yes, I think they may be saving part of the "reveal" or drama with Dean being clearer on what Sam means (and I'd say Sam being more sympathetic maybe to why Dean makes certain choices). It's hard to know, as so little has been revealed about where this is all heading.

Do you also think Jesus sacrificing himself to save the world and the people in it, to use that as a handy comparison, does not put Jesus at the center of the Christian religion?

Ah, it looks like my interpretation (or understanding) of what Sam-centric means differs. I don't deny that much of what happens in SPN is Sam-centric - as in Sam's drives the plot with all the "stuff" that happens to him (and I think the emotional story line is Dean-centric as a counterbalance). But in terms of Sam himself I thought that referred to him doing things for selfish reasons. Sure he's a the centre of saving the world (though I would argue that both Sam and Dean were at the centre of that - much like the breaking of the 66 seals) but I don't read that as doing that for himself. If centric purely means being the "centre of" then sure. In the context it was said it sounded like Sam's whole world centres on himself - which I don't think it does at all. If that's the case though, I would say that Dean is very Dean-centric also (all people are probably).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I will look at Dean more with the knowledge of how Purgatory has shaped him from know on.

[casey28.livejournal.com]

"Not invite Gadreel in to Sam." About Dean wanting to do-over that decision... he's the one who said "But what I do, I do because it's the right thing. I'd do it again." If Dean didn't go through with that decision, Sam would be dead. I can't see him wishing he had done things differently.

There's countless times when Sam has been protective of Dean, so I don't get why Jensen is ignoring this. "“You’re my big brother you can figure it out yourself.” This sounds more like bitterness over what's going on with the brothers right now. I mean, I don't always agree with what Sam does/says, but I'd never say that he's just "selfish."

It's depressing that Jensen thinks so little of Sam, and it doesn't give me much hope for Sam's storyline for the rest of the season. But really, who knows. I have no clue what they plan to do with Sam.

[abrakadabrah.livejournal.com]

"But what I do, I do because it's the right thing. I'd do it again." If Dean didn't go through with that decision, Sam would be dead. I can't see him wishing he had done things differently.

That was a few episodes ago -- and Jensen is even further ahead in filming the Season 9 series -- so he may be reflecting on a Dean who has begun to see the problem in what he did.