10.09 Poll

[ash48]

After posting my initial reaction earlier I couldn't resist the poll because I'm curious what you all thought. A more detailed review to follow when I can gather my thoughts.

[Poll #1991771]

Comments

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Already spewed my venom over at Deb's journal, but wow. Underwhelming is an understatement. And here's the thing: I didn't loathe Cas and Claire's story! (It should've been tightened up, but okay.) The episode reminded me of a book that is perfectly serviceable, until the very end, where it drops the ball. If a book effs up the ending, you never recc it to a friend, right? Any mildly pleasant bits you read earlier are negated by that crappy ending, and that's kinda how I felt.

And for me, the "crappy ending" was the uselessness of Cas' storyline and Sam leaving Dean in the house with the bad guys. He never would've done that. It made no sense. It was a total 'WTF?' moment for me. Not even Sam, with his hands cupping Dean's face in the last few seconds, could save the episode from banality.

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

The moment Sam walked out of the house I yelled at the screen. That tiny piece of scene was the worst writing since season 9. It was so ridiculously OOC for either of them. Since when do Sam or Dean ever not have the other's back, especially when they're outnumbered? Stupid. Just stupid. There's a great discussion post on tumblr that's been going around for a week or so about how badly the writers have dumbed down the Winchesters. I linked it on twitter and tagged a couple of the writers. I hope at least one of them sees it.

[growyourwings.livejournal.com]

So agree. I kept saying, "why is Sam leaving?" And just Dean nodding to Sam & Cas to leave ahead of him seemed...strange enough that I as knocked out of the story wondering why they made that choice.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

OMG, they have TOTALLY dumbed down the boys. No shit. Edlund was the last writer to have treated Sam's intellect with the humor and respect it deserved. Share the link here?

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

I don't even give a pass to Edlund. I will never, ever forgive him for having Sam confuse Metatron with Megatron.

Sam's only been researching angels and biblical lore since trying to stop the Apocalypse. This is the guy who recalls a random Native American symbol from a college class years ago. But he can't recall the name of a being who is mainstream knowledge enough to have made it into the movie 'Dogma' (god I love Alan Rickman in that!). Riiiiight.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Omg, I'd forgotten that! Okay, I'll give ya that one, totally. I was a little eye-squinty at that one too...

[raloria.livejournal.com]

Sam leaving Dean in the house with the bad guys. He never would've done that. It made no sense. It was a total 'WTF?' moment for me.

That's not what you told me on Twitter last night. ;)

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I know, babe. I was FURIOUS last night! I couldn't believe they had Sam doing that, and felt so defensive. Especially when I saw you throwing blame at Sam, as though Dean had no responsibility for Sam's false sense of security about Dean's 'supernatural' health.

I still think it was wrong of Dean to be lying about his premonitions of doom, and then to share those with Cas, keeping Sam out of the loop, was a backwards step for Dean's character. Completely. And I also think the editing of that scene was clumsy and painted Sam as the villain. Again.

Carver has not been thoughtful with Sam's character. At all.

[raloria.livejournal.com]

I understand Dean not wanting to tell Sam what was happening, especially after what he told Cas. Dean doesn't want to put Sam in the position of having to save him or...worst case scenario, kill him. That's why he went to Cas instead and told him to keep Sam out of it "because he'll try". Actually, it's classic big brother Dean trying to protect Sam once again. It'd be endearing if it wasn't so wrong. :P

I still don't like that Sam left Dean alone in the house and it seems I'm not the only one. I wouldn't call Sam a villain though and actually, this whole thing can be resolved if they have Sam lamenting the fact that Dean did that killing and Sam wasn't there to stop him. Because I can totally see Sam blaming himself for this, that he didn't act on his hunches about what was happening with his brother. It's the Winchester way, after all. I actually think Sam feeling guilty about it would redeem his character ('cause we all make mistakes like that in the heat of the moment). But if he doesn't feel guilty about it, that scene will simply remain what it looked like - a dumb, bad decision on Sam's part. However, the writers could have done it differently...time will tell if it was the right way or not. I'll have to wait and see what happens next.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I think we're going to have to disagree on this one.

Likewise, I'm not the only one who didn't find Dean's fibbing endearing, and thought Sam leaving Dean in that room felt like the writers forcing Sam into doing something OOC to facilitate the plot. Again.

The whole thing could also be resolved by Dean admitting he's been de-emphasizing his MoC symptoms to Sam, and if he'd been honest with his brother from the get-go, maybe the slaughter could've been averted.

What's the "Winchester Way?" Not acting on one's hunches about what's happening? I'm not sure I understand you, there. Do you mean them not talking and being honest with each other? Okay, maybe that's true.

If you truly believe Sam's character needs to be redeemed by admitting his guilt and culpability in Dean's killing frenzy? I'm...wow. I just don't know about that. Holding Sam accountable for that, when Dean willingly took the Mark and has continued to hide things from Sam is pretty unfair, IMHO.

But knowing this bunch of writers, it'll never be addressed. We'll probably never know. Heck, there could've been lines that wound up on the cutting room floor that would've shed light on the whole shebang; we know this has happened before!

Ah, well.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I actually think Sam feeling guilty about it would redeem his character ('cause we all make mistakes like that in the heat of the moment).

Oooh, I have to wonder what on earth Sam has to redeem here? It didn't even cross my mind that Sam did the slightest thing wrong (and thank goodness Guy Bee confirmed that Sam thought Dean was behind him and it wasn't until he got to the car that he realised (too late) that he was still inside). It means the reason Sam was part from Dean was purely narrative. Dean needed to kill without Sam around so this was the way it was done. Clunky for sure - and definitely nothing to do with Sam. I will fervently argue that Sam made no mistake here. Or rather, this wasn't at all about Sam making a mistake. He might kick himself for believing Dean was in control, but even then he's not THAT dumb (no matter how much they dumb down the characters). We've seen Sam support Dean and even though he knows Dean is lying all he can do is trust him. I just can't see how Dean killing all those (mostly) "innocent" men has anything to do with Sam. Having said that, I accept that some of fandom will most definitely find a way to blame Sam because unfortunately even when Dean is the one lying and killing he'll be taken off the hook.

Yikes! Sorry - the words "Sam" and "redemption" seem to be triggers for rants! I'm still not over people thinking Sam needs to redeem himself from last season. I might be wrong but Sam fully redeemed himself at the end of S5. I think we are now on Dean's journey to redemption. Sam is the support (like Dean was in S4-5) and Dean is turning dark side and after murdering those men (and no doubt more darkness to come) his will be a journey of redemption at some point (I think!).

[raloria.livejournal.com]

I would reply back to all this, but I'm honestly afraid to at this point. I'm not the best at expressing my views and my thoughts tend to do more harm than good, or get misunderstood, so I'm simply going to respectfully bow out. ♥

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I understand. I'm not great at expressing myself either and I know I have offended people recently. I am curious about views that differ from mine, which is why I love having good discussion. I know Sam is often seen as the bad guy and I suppose I'm always interested in that because I know my blinkered view might miss that approach to him. I also know, in terms of the wider fandom, I'm in the minority. Sam has, for so long now, been the brother needing redemption that I think (think! *g*) it's taking a while for anyone accept that Dean might be on that journey now. Of course, I maybe off course- and it might be wishful thinking on my part.

Aaanyway. All good! Discussing stuff from different perspectives can be tricky, but please know that I always appreciate different POVs and actually love that discussion.:)

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

Sam leaving Dean in the house with the bad guys. He never would've done that. It made no sense. It was a total 'WTF?' moment for me.

This, seriously. Sam blithely steps out, leaving Dean alone with two armed bad guys and a third in unknown condition upstairs? What, Cas and Claire are to helpless to get to the damned CAR by themselves? Nope, Sam never would've done that.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It's telling to me how much I wasn't enjoying this episode that by the end I was so over it that I didn't even care one iota that the ending was so stupid. Thinking on this now it makes me even more angry with the episode (if that's possible). I was pissed enough that Sam didn't even feature in the episode, let alone make him stupid again.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that Sam would leave Dean in there. We're made to think Sam is looking out for Dean and then they do that. *unhappy sigh*

I liked the idea of exploring Cas's relationship with Claire but the whole time I was wondering when the supernatural element was coming in. Other than the MoC we could have been watching an episode of any family drama show. Oh show…shame after a pretty strong start.

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

I wanted to head-desk so hard when Sam left. For me, it was yet another one of those "Dean is going to have an important Moment so we have to get Sam out of the way so it won't interrupt the epic Dean angst" things that this show has been pulling for years. Like Sam is some lamp they have to move because he's in the way.

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

I tried to press "meh" at least. I just couldn't... allergic reaction was allergic. :/

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah…I ended up going with *meh* because it did have a couple of nice moments. My first *meh* this season though. That's gotta be good.

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

My first *meh* this season though.

Same here.. so maybe I should compose myself now and look hopeful into the second half of the season. :)

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

I cheated and clicked both "OK" and "Meh," because for me, at least, the grilled-cheese scene and the intense moment at the end with Sam gripping Dean's face and begging him to admit he'd killed in self-defense . . . made up for a lot of sins that went before. If those moments had not been there, believe me, I would've checked "Nope" in a heartbeat.

. . . fickle Cassiopeia is fickle.

[etoile-etiolee.livejournal.com]

I completely agree, that's why I clicked ok.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Grilled cheese!! I ended up with *meh* in the end, even though there were a couple of nice bro moments. I'm in a much better mood today so if I watched it again it might go up to ok. Still, definitely my least favourite this season.

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

F is my grade.i give up, im seriously thinking about quitting right now. i dont know what that was but it was not a mid-season finale and not my show;i dont know who these people are but they're not Sam and Dean maybe they're Leviathans.i dont know what the hell is going on, but whatever it is its killing me with what they're doing to the characters i used to know and love. im to the point where my loyalty and passionate love is worth coming back after this bullshit of a not mid-season finale! :(!!!! i am just heartbroken right now as i dont know what right now and it HURTS and devastating me that i am seriously thinking about letting this show go after 10 years. i cant believe i just said that, that's how devastated and heartbroken i am:(. my heart is telling me to stay and see it to the end but my mind is telling me that maybe its time to let it go :(.Sam did nothing in this episode and im worried that he wont be doing anything in the 2nd half in January. i need this break to think, really think and remember why im still here now if i want to come back and see nothing has changed. Who are you and what have you done with my Supernatural and Sam and Dean?-long comment over I dont feel better :(

[batgurl10.livejournal.com]

It wasnt *That bad, Jeez whiz!

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

excuse me? i just left my personal opinion of what i thought of the episode and graded it, im not sure i understand what you are saying to me? it may not have been bad for you but to me it was bad episode.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I hear ya. I've been there before. The worse for me was the S8 mid-season finale with the climax was Amelia walking back into Sam's life. It was like - *Oh we have to actually CARE about that!* It was like this episode. I cared so little about anything - even Sam and Dean by the end. But the fact that I've enjoyed pretty much all the episodes so far this season has made me more hopeful. The few Sam and Dean moments we got were nice (grilled cheese and Three Stooges!) but the rest was just uninteresting to me.

I hope it picks up for you after the hiatus. Letting go of this show is damn near impossible. I've felt like doing it a few times, but I just can't.

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

I was watching a glitchy stream but ended up being so uninvested, I didn't really care!

But it's been a good season. I will be back in January. :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah. One rotten apple doesn't make a bad barrel. I've been mostly happy with this season too so I can definitely forgive this. I mean, overall I'm still carrying some bitterness but up until this episode I haven't really felt that bitterness take over.

[growyourwings.livejournal.com]

I agree with what others have said about it being an ok episode if it was NOT the mid season finale. I likely would have "okay'd" it and found it mildly enjoyable as a filler episode. The Cas-Claire stuff was ok.

The ending just felt so very OFF to me. Even the face grabbing. If Sam was SO worried that Dean might go off, I cannot imagine he would leave Dean like that. I do not know what the writer(s) were thinking. Were they thinking. Are they just phoning it in because they know they have a sure thing at least for another season? Are they getting bored?

I have been enjoying S10 so far. But seasons 8 & 9 wore me down so much that my tolerance is low even after enjoying most of the eps so far this season. Another thought last night was that maybe I'm finally over this show as I couldn't even work up anger about the fact that it was a very boring mid-season finale.

EDIT: I guess I should add that I had a very lousy day. Perhaps that influenced my reaction. But I truly was not upset. Just meh to bored.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I think your response to the episode was derned valid, despite your lousy day. :)

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I've clicked ok because - it was sort of ok. But - and there are a lot of buts - it wasn't much of a mid season finale, I totally agree about the WTFness of Sam leaving Dean alone with four hostiles even though they were all human especially given the doubts Sam is having THAT THEY SHOWED US IN THIS EPISODE about the effects of the Mark. So even if he hadn't been concerned about Dean holding his own in a room full of angry, armed blokes, he would have been worried about what Dean might do under the influence of the Mark.

Oh god I just wish we could get the tight sort of writing they had on Sons of Anarchy - some consistent GOOD writing would sort all these stupid problems out.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Any sort of consistency would be awesome! Even the John stuff felt weird. It did have some nice little touches but I think because I was essentially bored through most of it, it rubbed off on everything else going on.

I'm so glad we got confirmation that Sam didn't leave Dean in there alone. Poorly conveyed, but it wouldn't have made any sense that Sam would deliberately leave Dean behind. I know we can argue that Sam should have been behind Dean, but this was set up purely for narrative reasons so we'll just have to fanon it away. :)

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

I just don't know how else to explain it, but that Carver was so upset everyone hated his show running at the end of last season that he compiled a list of every fan gripe he could find and set his writers out to tick at least two boxes every episode, I mean, we'd all love him them wouldn't we?

Amulet? tick
Music? tick
Vessels? tick
Castiel meeting Claire? tick
Jody? tick
Sam looking after Dean? tick
Sam and Dean in the bunker scene? tick
Dean and Cas scene? tick
Boys talk in the car? tick
Boys reminisce about their childhood? tick

And so on, I'm spoiler free, so I'm not even going to try and guess who's going to turn up in the next few episodes, but I already have quite a few ideas.

But it feels like writing by rote to strict demands, it's clunky and obvious and there are so many things in there that should have me fist pumping and shouting **YES!! THIS!! AT LAST!!**, but sadly the execution was boring and shallow and the themes are far too late to suddenly address now and in concentrating on ticking those boxes to please fans everything else doesn't make a tad of sense.

Overall it was an ok episode, it could have been a great episode, for the mid season break it should have been an awesome episode and it wasn't, even though some of the things they're tackling should be profound and thought stirring, but no, what should be a delicious 4 course meal gets served up as a ham sandwich.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

YES, THIS!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Haha! I think you're right! Though, I figure he's someone who wouldn't have even realised much of it was hated. But yes - lots ticked off, but little satisfaction.

I wouldn't have even minded the Cas and Claire story mixed with the Sam and Dean (and Sam Dean and Cas) stories if that was the only stories we had. By throwing in Rowena and Crowley it just added another layer of "don't care" for me. Also, I really missed the supernatural element in the show. I think it's the first time there was no supernatural monster (well, other than the benders).

I dunno. I keep telling myself not to care, to just let it go, but I just can't. Even now I'm mulling over my "proper" review and thinky thoughts that I really should just leave alone.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

I seem to be the only person in the fandom who thought Sam assumed Dean was right behind him when he left the house. The way I read it, he didn't even notice Dean wasn't with them until he got in the car. Maybe because that's the only way any of that made sense. :-/

[batgurl10.livejournal.com]

Good Point. Im going to rewatch tonight. I could have sworn that Dean told them to go ahead to the car and he would meet them. Could have sworn--have to check later. It was definitely not a massive cliffie--personally, Im happy with it. This season has been amazing so far. Cant wait for Jan 20 2015!

LOVED the boys talking about john and his questionable parenting. But doing in a way that was more love than hate. I was thinking about this yesterday. John was def not father of the year but he did somethings right. The family motto==Saving people, hunting things" thats all John Winchester. It could have easily been "Hunting things" the saving people was JW.

[growyourwings.livejournal.com]

I also read it as Sam thinking Dean was right behind him. What I do not understand is how Sam did not NOTICE sooner that Dean was taking longer to leave until he heard something. Sam was ALL RELAXED and smiling in the car. Just did not make sense for Sam's character. Very OOC.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Clumsy editing, or yet another example of forcing Sam into OOC behavior to suit the plot. Maaaan, am I getting fed up with framing Sam as the heavy.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I think when I was watching that was my assumption too. I think we have to assume that what was happening in the house was happening at the exact time that Sam and Cas were leaving. So by the time Sam realised Dean was not behind him the killing had already been done. It's the only way I can reconcile how that all went down. But yeah, on my re-watch I'll have to take a closer look at that scene.

[zubeneschamali.livejournal.com]

No, I'm with you. And the slow motion shot of Sam when he heard the noise in the house suggested that the Mark took over very, very fast.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

You aren't the only one. I have to assume Sam thought Dean was right there; Sam never would've left Dean in there long enough for him to slaughter the whole damned room.

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

When I think of how last season's "Holy Terror" left me a crying basketcase, the Cas n' Claire hour seems even more lame.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I think if this had been an episode anywhere but here I wouldn't have been so down on it. It puzzles me that they chose such a lame story for the mid-season finale. If it had been part one of a two parter leading into the finale then I could understand it more. It also left me not caring at all about what happens next. It didn't seem to leave any tantalising loose ends. Maybe what become of Claire and Cas? Nothing will change between Sam and Dean. Sam will fret, Dean will say he's fine and hunting will continue until the season finale and there will be weeping.

(ugh, sorry. Obviously still miffed even the next day).

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

I agree with this.

I am tired of the angel war, and I liked Claire and was genuinely very interested in seeing her again, having her interact with Cas, etc. My patience with Cas eating up time with boring stories has been running a little thin, but they found a plot I wanted more of.

Just not juggled (poorly) with two other things in a mid-season finale, and especially not when the Winchesters are relegated to nearly mere footnotes in their own story!

[jessm78.livejournal.com]

I agree with everyone who said it was underwhelming, especially for a mid-season finale. Meh. The writing was pretty lazy at the end especially.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Underwhelming. Perhaps if I'd tuned into a normal family drama show it would have rated much more highly. The fact that the supernatural hardly featured was an added layer of weirdness for me.