10.09 Poll

[ash48]

After posting my initial reaction earlier I couldn't resist the poll because I'm curious what you all thought. A more detailed review to follow when I can gather my thoughts.

[Poll #1991771]

Comments

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Already spewed my venom over at Deb's journal, but wow. Underwhelming is an understatement. And here's the thing: I didn't loathe Cas and Claire's story! (It should've been tightened up, but okay.) The episode reminded me of a book that is perfectly serviceable, until the very end, where it drops the ball. If a book effs up the ending, you never recc it to a friend, right? Any mildly pleasant bits you read earlier are negated by that crappy ending, and that's kinda how I felt.

And for me, the "crappy ending" was the uselessness of Cas' storyline and Sam leaving Dean in the house with the bad guys. He never would've done that. It made no sense. It was a total 'WTF?' moment for me. Not even Sam, with his hands cupping Dean's face in the last few seconds, could save the episode from banality.

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

The moment Sam walked out of the house I yelled at the screen. That tiny piece of scene was the worst writing since season 9. It was so ridiculously OOC for either of them. Since when do Sam or Dean ever not have the other's back, especially when they're outnumbered? Stupid. Just stupid. There's a great discussion post on tumblr that's been going around for a week or so about how badly the writers have dumbed down the Winchesters. I linked it on twitter and tagged a couple of the writers. I hope at least one of them sees it.

[growyourwings.livejournal.com]

So agree. I kept saying, "why is Sam leaving?" And just Dean nodding to Sam & Cas to leave ahead of him seemed...strange enough that I as knocked out of the story wondering why they made that choice.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

OMG, they have TOTALLY dumbed down the boys. No shit. Edlund was the last writer to have treated Sam's intellect with the humor and respect it deserved. Share the link here?

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

I don't even give a pass to Edlund. I will never, ever forgive him for having Sam confuse Metatron with Megatron.

Sam's only been researching angels and biblical lore since trying to stop the Apocalypse. This is the guy who recalls a random Native American symbol from a college class years ago. But he can't recall the name of a being who is mainstream knowledge enough to have made it into the movie 'Dogma' (god I love Alan Rickman in that!). Riiiiight.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Omg, I'd forgotten that! Okay, I'll give ya that one, totally. I was a little eye-squinty at that one too...

[raloria.livejournal.com]

Sam leaving Dean in the house with the bad guys. He never would've done that. It made no sense. It was a total 'WTF?' moment for me.

That's not what you told me on Twitter last night. ;)

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I know, babe. I was FURIOUS last night! I couldn't believe they had Sam doing that, and felt so defensive. Especially when I saw you throwing blame at Sam, as though Dean had no responsibility for Sam's false sense of security about Dean's 'supernatural' health.

I still think it was wrong of Dean to be lying about his premonitions of doom, and then to share those with Cas, keeping Sam out of the loop, was a backwards step for Dean's character. Completely. And I also think the editing of that scene was clumsy and painted Sam as the villain. Again.

Carver has not been thoughtful with Sam's character. At all.

[raloria.livejournal.com]

I understand Dean not wanting to tell Sam what was happening, especially after what he told Cas. Dean doesn't want to put Sam in the position of having to save him or...worst case scenario, kill him. That's why he went to Cas instead and told him to keep Sam out of it "because he'll try". Actually, it's classic big brother Dean trying to protect Sam once again. It'd be endearing if it wasn't so wrong. :P

I still don't like that Sam left Dean alone in the house and it seems I'm not the only one. I wouldn't call Sam a villain though and actually, this whole thing can be resolved if they have Sam lamenting the fact that Dean did that killing and Sam wasn't there to stop him. Because I can totally see Sam blaming himself for this, that he didn't act on his hunches about what was happening with his brother. It's the Winchester way, after all. I actually think Sam feeling guilty about it would redeem his character ('cause we all make mistakes like that in the heat of the moment). But if he doesn't feel guilty about it, that scene will simply remain what it looked like - a dumb, bad decision on Sam's part. However, the writers could have done it differently...time will tell if it was the right way or not. I'll have to wait and see what happens next.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I think we're going to have to disagree on this one.

Likewise, I'm not the only one who didn't find Dean's fibbing endearing, and thought Sam leaving Dean in that room felt like the writers forcing Sam into doing something OOC to facilitate the plot. Again.

The whole thing could also be resolved by Dean admitting he's been de-emphasizing his MoC symptoms to Sam, and if he'd been honest with his brother from the get-go, maybe the slaughter could've been averted.

What's the "Winchester Way?" Not acting on one's hunches about what's happening? I'm not sure I understand you, there. Do you mean them not talking and being honest with each other? Okay, maybe that's true.

If you truly believe Sam's character needs to be redeemed by admitting his guilt and culpability in Dean's killing frenzy? I'm...wow. I just don't know about that. Holding Sam accountable for that, when Dean willingly took the Mark and has continued to hide things from Sam is pretty unfair, IMHO.

But knowing this bunch of writers, it'll never be addressed. We'll probably never know. Heck, there could've been lines that wound up on the cutting room floor that would've shed light on the whole shebang; we know this has happened before!

Ah, well.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I actually think Sam feeling guilty about it would redeem his character ('cause we all make mistakes like that in the heat of the moment).

Oooh, I have to wonder what on earth Sam has to redeem here? It didn't even cross my mind that Sam did the slightest thing wrong (and thank goodness Guy Bee confirmed that Sam thought Dean was behind him and it wasn't until he got to the car that he realised (too late) that he was still inside). It means the reason Sam was part from Dean was purely narrative. Dean needed to kill without Sam around so this was the way it was done. Clunky for sure - and definitely nothing to do with Sam. I will fervently argue that Sam made no mistake here. Or rather, this wasn't at all about Sam making a mistake. He might kick himself for believing Dean was in control, but even then he's not THAT dumb (no matter how much they dumb down the characters). We've seen Sam support Dean and even though he knows Dean is lying all he can do is trust him. I just can't see how Dean killing all those (mostly) "innocent" men has anything to do with Sam. Having said that, I accept that some of fandom will most definitely find a way to blame Sam because unfortunately even when Dean is the one lying and killing he'll be taken off the hook.

Yikes! Sorry - the words "Sam" and "redemption" seem to be triggers for rants! I'm still not over people thinking Sam needs to redeem himself from last season. I might be wrong but Sam fully redeemed himself at the end of S5. I think we are now on Dean's journey to redemption. Sam is the support (like Dean was in S4-5) and Dean is turning dark side and after murdering those men (and no doubt more darkness to come) his will be a journey of redemption at some point (I think!).

[raloria.livejournal.com]

I would reply back to all this, but I'm honestly afraid to at this point. I'm not the best at expressing my views and my thoughts tend to do more harm than good, or get misunderstood, so I'm simply going to respectfully bow out. ♥

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I understand. I'm not great at expressing myself either and I know I have offended people recently. I am curious about views that differ from mine, which is why I love having good discussion. I know Sam is often seen as the bad guy and I suppose I'm always interested in that because I know my blinkered view might miss that approach to him. I also know, in terms of the wider fandom, I'm in the minority. Sam has, for so long now, been the brother needing redemption that I think (think! *g*) it's taking a while for anyone accept that Dean might be on that journey now. Of course, I maybe off course- and it might be wishful thinking on my part.

Aaanyway. All good! Discussing stuff from different perspectives can be tricky, but please know that I always appreciate different POVs and actually love that discussion.:)

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

Sam leaving Dean in the house with the bad guys. He never would've done that. It made no sense. It was a total 'WTF?' moment for me.

This, seriously. Sam blithely steps out, leaving Dean alone with two armed bad guys and a third in unknown condition upstairs? What, Cas and Claire are to helpless to get to the damned CAR by themselves? Nope, Sam never would've done that.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It's telling to me how much I wasn't enjoying this episode that by the end I was so over it that I didn't even care one iota that the ending was so stupid. Thinking on this now it makes me even more angry with the episode (if that's possible). I was pissed enough that Sam didn't even feature in the episode, let alone make him stupid again.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that Sam would leave Dean in there. We're made to think Sam is looking out for Dean and then they do that. *unhappy sigh*

I liked the idea of exploring Cas's relationship with Claire but the whole time I was wondering when the supernatural element was coming in. Other than the MoC we could have been watching an episode of any family drama show. Oh show…shame after a pretty strong start.

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

I wanted to head-desk so hard when Sam left. For me, it was yet another one of those "Dean is going to have an important Moment so we have to get Sam out of the way so it won't interrupt the epic Dean angst" things that this show has been pulling for years. Like Sam is some lamp they have to move because he's in the way.