So ya know...

[ash48]

I'm not going to be writing up a reaction or review of 10.12. In fact, it's unlikely I'll be writing them any more. I feel I only want to complain these days and that's not fair on anyone (though I'm thinking of writing up some general stuff - mostly to help me try and work why I'm feeling just over it all).

I am still curious about what every one thought so I'll still do the polls (if you're all still happy to fill them out *g*).

[Poll #1998102]

Comments

[fanspired]

At the close of s5 I still thought of the story as an incomplete hero myth, but now I recognize those first 5 seasons as a fully complete anti-hero tragedy in which the brother who always wanted to be free repays all his brother's years of sacrifice with one ultimate act of sacrifice: Sam condemns himself to eternity in a cage to save the world for Dean, so that Dean can finally have his apple pie. He saves Dean not just in the physical sense, but he redeems him, from darkness and 'the life'.

Unfortunately the point that Sam was ultimately 'the savior and redeemer' of Dean 'the sinner' got lost when the show continued beyond Swan Song, but if you think of it as finished at that point then it's complete and perfect and serves its purpose as an utter condemnation of the hero myth - because under that beautiful myth was the reality that, without Sam, Dean just wanted to die, and it was the worst possible outcome for both of them. Dean summed up the final moral of the story succinctly: he did everything a hero was supposed to do, and all it got him was his brother in a hole.

Roll credits.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I loved the layered complexity of what it is to be a hero (or anti-hero) in S1-5. At the time I didn't really appreciate it (I hated that one brother died while one lived), but looking back it worked perfectly.

And even now, there's potential to re-work that (which I thought Carver might be doing). Making Dean bring back Sam for himself (and not for Sam), is a pretty powerful statement. Instead of that being played out it's now just Dean paying for his sins while the very person his sins effected stands by and supports him though it. It's very noble of Sam and maybe that's the point. But until Dean is seen to actually understand his "sins" there's never going to be any moving forward. Which, might be the plan as it seems the show will continue for another, at least, 2 years. I'm just not going to have the strength to participate in that.

[fanspired]

There were an extraordinary number of layers in the original show. It just isn't possible to do justice to all of them.

Alas, I don't think we're ever going to revisit an examination of what Dean did wrong in s9 becuase I don't think it was just fans that didn't like that storyline. I get the feeling Jensen didn't either, but that's mostly speculation on my part.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

It's interesting that both Jensen and Dean have mentioned "tricking Sam". It's still in play for Dean I think. He genuinely feels bad about doing that - and plays into his guilt and self loathing (making it a plot devise for Dean's arc rather than a story arc for Sam).

And I get it that fans didn't like it (like they didn't like the Sam/amelia storyline) but instead of recognising it happened (and is canon) they "ignore" it thinking we'll just forget it (and maybe casual viewers do…). Sam's angel possession is one of the biggest things to have happened to Sam since S5 and it's been totally ignored (aside from Dean feeling bad about it). They've also dropped interesting Dean arcs (purgatory being a major one) so I don't think it's just a Sam thing. It's just more obvious (hee, to me…*g*).

[fanspired]

Yes it's very frustrating that every time there's a loud outcry about a storyline they deal with it not be resolving the issue but by sweeping it under the carpet and, as you say, hoping everyone will forget about it. It does seem that most people do. Personally, I didn't think the real Dean would ever have agreed to Sam being possessed (hell, he was prepared to let Sam die in the panic room so long as he died human) but I've long since stopped expecting the characters (and especially Dean) to behave in character, so I was just disappointed they abandoned an arc that had the potential to examine some very important issues.

[casey28.livejournal.com]

Making Dean bring back Sam for himself (and not for Sam), is a pretty powerful statement

That's something Sam said, and later on, he admitted that he didn't really mean some of the things that he said... he was just trying to hurt Dean. Dean brought back Sam for both of them. Him and Sam, fighting the good fight together.