Sammy chat...

[ash48]

Warning. Don't click if show crit concerns you. Please. I want to be able to say some stuff and invite others to do so if they want to, without retribution (not that I ever get that *hearts you all*, but I just want to warn that I want to create a space for people to chat about Show concerns). It's really about getting stuff off my chest - and yours too if you want to.

Disclaimer: I still love the show. I love Dean. I love these characters. Wanting more for a character I adore isn't me hating on the show for no reason.



I've tried so many times to write up some reasons why I'm despairing about S10 and basically Sam's lack of - well, everything: presence, storyline, emotion, hair etc. etc., but I can't seem to assemble cohesive thoughts. I have many drafts but I can't post them because I read through them and all I seem to be doing is complaining. Which is essentially what I'm doing, but I wanted to give good, sensible, compassionate reasons for why I'm complaining. And I just can't seem to. Not well anyway.

I did make one post - which I took down - which stated "Sam's storyline is fucked". I took that down because it didn't seem fair I should say that without reasons. The reason I wrote that is because after writing reams of words I came to that conclusion. And not just because we don't ever get to hear from Sam, but because his actually story-line (since S8) makes no sense.

But mostly it's the Show's utter disregard for anything that has gone before for Sam. I actually have no issue with the current supportive Sam, or protective Sam (at all!) - but I hate that they have not given us resolutions to ANYTHING that has gone before (and also make it seem as though this is a Sam we've never seen before. It's as though "Sam" started in S8 - when he decided not to look for his missing brother). We just have to accept that Sam is suddenly ok. That Sam was misguided for be angry with Dean last season and his "I lied" was his "I'm over all that" transition to this season. I am so frustrated and sad that we've not had one episode (or even a moment) that has given us any exploration of how Sam went from the last 2 seasons to this one. And as much as I love that Dean's character is being thoroughly explored and a clear story arc is emerging, I just wish they'd balance it with giving us just a little bit of Sam. I'm not asking for much, just a littlebit. A Sam that isn't merely "bad, thoughtless brother" or "silent supportive brother".

On top of that, I'm finding the fact that fandom is loving this Sam so much, disconcerting. I mean, it's so much better than "Sam should kill himself, he's an ungrateful, whiny, selfish brother who doesn't appreciate Dean" but it suggests that the "best" Sam is a silent, supportive Sam. I get that current Sam is the one we love - being there for Dean, accepting Dean for who he is, saying the right things, being a tower of strength - but he's all those things without depth or reason. I know WE can make up those reasons (and there's a bucket load of them!) but I want the SHOW to do that. Show us that because Sam has been "other" that he understands what Dean is experiencing. Show us that Dean knows that's why Sam is so strong. Show us that Sam has a deep understanding of what it's like to carrying "evil" within his veins and that's why he's so good at this. Show us that Sam has beaten this and that's why he knows Dean can. Remind us that Dean actually locked Sam up when Sam was fighting his demons - and beat the crap out of him when he found out he lost his soul. In all honesty, I don't think they even remember what Sam has ever been through.

I dunno. I wrote on twitter that it's a bad time to be a Sam!girl. It just feels like that. We've had a season where his character went back to another universe where he only wanted a normal life, to a character who was prepared to die to save the world but failed, to a character who is betrayed by his brother and loses his autonomy (S9), to a character (this season) who worries about his brother. All this without ever really getting to know how he feels about any of it. And I don't mean feelings like "anger" and "love" and "worry". It's about feelings in context to everything else. Like we are seeing with Dean. Dean's unravelling story arc is deep and full of emotion tied to his childhood and past mistakes and self esteem and sense of worth and how he feels about Sam and pretty much everything we know about him. Sam's is tied to…? *sounds of crickets*…. (I think it's tied to aa writing team and show runner that haven't quite figured out who Sam is. They prefer the plot devise, emotional catalyst (for Dean) and enigma).

And maybe that's deliberate. I think we're heading for S4 Sam soon (as we've already had S1, S2 and currently S3 Sam) and I'm not at all feeling confident that we'll get the corresponding emotion we got back then. We currently have S3 Sam - worrying about Dean and trying all he can to save him. But at least we had Mystery Spot back then to give us great insight into Sam's sense of helplessness.

Is there light at the end of this tunnel? Perhaps I should just be satisfied with "good brother" Sam. And boy am I going to love it when he turns "dark side" and completely wipes out any progress he's ever made as a character. Or maybe I'm jumping the gun. If Sam actually manages to save Dean without compromising his character I'll stand corrected on all of this (though if they want to give us dark!Sam and dark!Dean together and really go there, I'll go along for the ride).

(dammit. It's late. I'll post this anyway. I'm sure there's a million typos…)

Comments

[winsangel.livejournal.com]

Ditto to your concerns, bb. I wish a discussion like this could be linked to the writers so they could see what die hard fans truly think of the problems with show and Sam. Not that it would make a difference because they seem to have writer's block when it comes to Sam, or something. It's not fair to Jared, who's stuck with show through thick and thin as one of the leads, to be sidelined and reduced to visual rather than vocal acting.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You're obviously not the only one who's wondering WTF.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi hun. When I posted this I wondered how many others might be feeling the same. I mean, I kind of know because of past comments but for even Dean!girls to see the imbalance is something. I think a lot of fans enjoy it when there's a balance. It's great to see Dean with the myth arc and story line, but it would also be amazing to see Sam with some feelings and a storyline too. Oh well. We soldier on…
xx

[njspnfan.livejournal.com]

I'm a guy, and a fan of the Winchester brothers, but you are absolutely correct. There has been absolutely no context/reason given to many of the things that Sam has done during the Carver era; he is simply a plot device to this team of writers. I find it interesting that any fan of the show could name Dean's favorite songs/type of music, and his favorite foods, but the same could not be said for Sam (and no, salad cannot be considered a favorite food). This show is no longer about two brothers; it's about Dean Winchester, his two trusty sidekicks Sam Winchester and Castiel, and that wascally wabbit Crowley.

Let's start with the Amelia debacle and Sam not looking for Dean. I thought it was an interesting direction to take, but no context was provided for Sam's decision. To me, Sam having "snapped", or shutting down/disconnecting from reality (leaving it open to interpretation whether Amelia was real or a creation of Sam's mind) would have made perfect sense given the events of Season 7. But we got absolutely none of that, just a whole bunch of Sam's a shitty brother for not looking for Dean. Jump ahead to S9, where Sam was violated in the most disgusting manner possible by being tricked in to possession, and the complete dismissal of this in the second half of S9, with Sam being the one portrayed as an ungrateful and unappreciative bastard, and that Gadreel was just "misunderstood". And don't get me started on some of the stuff the writers wrote for Sam after the brothers got back together in S9; it left me wondering what JP ever did to piss off the writers or showrunners that badly to have them write this garbage, or whether this was the work of 100 monkeys hacking away on typewriters in the basement.

With the mytharc switching to Dean in S10, a welcome change IMO, I thought we might get some more of Sam's POV but that has not been the case; just more Sam as damsel in distress, being knocked unconscious or choked - more of the same tired old uncreative crap. And this whole "who's the bigger monster" question was a red herring. I do like supportive, mature, and "centered" Sam but, without having anything for the character to say or do than to be Dean's cheerleader, I'd take more contrived "you killed my friend Amy" crap that we got in S7 over what we're getting now. I am holding out hope that Sam is instrumental in saving Dean, curing him of the MoC, but this will no doubt involve Sam compromising his integrity.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

Frankly, they didn't even have to have Sam "snap". Dean disappeared in a factory run by beings that could turn their bodies into duplicates of anyone as long as they had some DNA. Dean (and Sam) had been impersonated already in Slash Fiction. All they needed was Sam finding "Dean's" body in the wreckage and five minutes of Sam agonizing over the agreement that they not try and bring each other back from the dead. Yes, people would have been mad that Sam didn't try to commit suicide, and not looking for Kevin would have been a bit of a problem, because Dean can tell Bobby he doesn't care if the world burns when Sam died in AHBL, but Sam can't feel that way if he thinks Dean is dead. They should at least have us know why Sam thought Dean was dead and a factory full of creatures looking like Dean would do it. Heck, if they wanted to cover Kevin, they could have had Sam discover "Kevin's" body and simply not know if Kevin had really been kidnapped by Crowley or if he was dead.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi there. Firstly, thanks for dropping by. It's always great to get a guy's perspective on the show. Secondly, reading this is like being in my own brain. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is what I'm feeling, in a nutshell.

And it's so distressing that they don't even see it. The writers just keep piling it on Sam and never stop to think how unfair they are being.

it left me wondering what JP ever did to piss off the writers or showrunners that badly to have them write this garbage

I've been starting to think this lately too! I had wondered if Jared has pissed off the writers somehow. Or, that Jared complained about the last two seasons so this season they decided to go the opposite way and make him all caring and supporting without ANY bridge from what's gone before.

I'd love to know if there's any truth in that.

I am holding out hope that Sam is instrumental in saving Dean, curing him of the MoC, but this will no doubt involve Sam compromising his integrity..

My thoughts exactly. They talked about "who's the bigger monster" - I figure this will be the final nail for Sam. He'll be the bigger monster and have to spend the next season making up for it. Again. :(

Thanks again for dropping by. Good to know there are a few of us in Sam's corner. :)

[luminosity]

Oh honey! I feel you. I've been concluding that this is Incarnation #4 of Show. There's 1-5, 6-7, 8, and 9-10. S8 destroyed whatever passion I had. I say "destroyed" because I haven't been able to get it back after Carver obliterated canon in S8. I can't trust the show. I can't trust that this team understands the characters as previously written, and it's heartbreaking.

I'm trying to come to terms with lack of Samminess this year--actually, it seems as if Castiel took Sam's personality along with the remnants of Gadreel last season. Sam's just not been there. I mean, I'm all over Dean and his issues, but it's as if Show can't balance them anymore, and if I'm going to love it anymore, I have to just accept that it's Incarnation #4.

*sigh*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey darlin'!

Hmmm, yes. incarnation #4. That makes sense (rather sadly...)

it seems as if Castiel took Sam's personality along with the remnants of Gadreel last season.

A long with other guest appearances. Cole has more of an arc than Sam. And Charlie, and Jody and Donna (not that I'm complaining about that! Great seeing the gals get some depth). But yeah, Sam seems to be an empty shell these days. Though he is mastering his worried look...:)

I'm ready for incarnation #5 next season!
xx

[catinplaid.livejournal.com]

Ash, thank you so much for this post. And I agree. I agree with everything you wrote.
You know, I love the show. And I don't feel disgruntled by it. I know many others here do, and I totally understand that! I still love it because I sit down and analyse Sam, and Dean, and their relationship, and I understand them, and find reasons why they did what they did, and so on.

BUT!!!
"I know WE can make up those reasons (and there's a bucket load of them!) but I want the SHOW to do that."
THIS!! SO MUCH THIS!

Since Season 7, I've always waited for them to show us some insight into Sam's struggles. Some resolution for all his issues. This boy has gone through hell and back, he's been victimized so often, even by the one he loves the most, his brother Dean - and what has Show shown us? NOTHING! I've read wonderful fanfics that go into all these issues, but nothing of it in Show.
What I like about SPN is that we have those two guys who are absolutely broken, and Show doesn't shy away from that. I've always liked heroes who aren't just physically wounded, but go through some psychological turmoil as well, who show emotional struggle. We've had so much of it in the early seasons, for Sam and for Dean, but now? Nothing of it regarding Sam. It's like Sam is just a superficial cartoon character, and that's not cool. *grumbles*

Interestingly enough, addressing these issues doesn't dampen my enjoyment of Show. Is that an oxymoron? Maybe. Or maybe I just get used to stuff? *shrugs*. But it's the truth and it has to be said!

So yes. I'll always love SPN. And I'll keep watching, and I'll always find something I like in it, and be able to squee about. And I'll never, ever stop understanding Sam, even if it's just in my head, because they won't really show us. But if they'd ever address Sam's issues? Show that what he's been through has changed him, shaped the man he is now? I'd throw a frikkin PARTY! :))

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey hun!

Yay! I love that you love the show and can still squee! :D I still have my little squee moments and I know how wonderful that feels.

I also love the show for our flawed heroes. They have certainly kept to the idea of making them less than perfect - and that's what keeps it interesting.

I know I grumble quite a bit (well, have done lately) but it's really only been since the last season that I've lost faith that the show will make sense of everything they've put the characters through.

But if they'd ever address Sam's issues? Show that what he's been through has changed him, shaped the man he is now? I'd throw a frikkin PARTY! :))

And I'll join you! And I know a few others who will too!!

<3

[meckman37.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for writing this. I've finally given up on watching the show. I've been so bored or pissed off by the episodes this season--the terrible writing just screams out of the television set--that I've just... stopped. The episodes are collecting on my DVR, and I'll likely just delete them, unwatched, at some point when I run low on room. It's so sad. As Sam disappeared, my interest disappeared with him. But it helps to know I'm not crazy, and that many others feel this way, too. Thank you for that!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi,

I'm so sorry to hear it's driven you to quitting. But, I understand. There are times I wish I had the strength to do the same. I'm still too hooked on the Js and the characters (even when they make then do horrid things and then don't follow through with the consequences of them...)

And no, you're not crazy. You would have seen the many comments here to see that many are disappointed.

xx

[a_starfish]

I'm not sure I have much to add, I wish I had good things to say. Reading through the comments has been interesting, in a good way. Thank you.

I hardly dare ask if Carver is show runner for S11 (I'm guessing there might be more optimism if he wasn't). At the moment I just see a storyboard in a room with x, y, z story points plotted out and the characters are just filled in around it to fit. The characters decisions/desires/motivations aren't driving events but are being fashioned to fit the chosen outcome (which probably happens in writing but I never want to feel that it has). Just show me a rich and complex inner emotional world to a character and I can probably buy a pretty contrived plot line. It seems sadly kind of inevitable that minor character status and no insight/complexity has left me feeling very little in response to Sam lately other than to wonder where he is.

I love re-watching Mystery Spot, it is one of my favourite SPN episodes for the plot, the emotional intensity and the insight into Sam. <3 I love you Mystery Spot Sam.