10.22 poll and, a different approach..

[ash48]

[Poll #2011057]



This might not work, but I'm keen to try it. I have a heap of thoughts about this episode. So many I'm not really sure where to start. So, instead of writing it all down, how about you share what you thought and we can chat about it? OR ask me a specific question and I'll answer it. That way the conversation will become the episode reaction. If that makes any sense (if not, I'll write something up later…*g*).

I adore talking about the show and accept the individual responses to it. I won't harsh your squee, nor will I spew rainbows over your discontent. At the moment I'm all over the damn place about the episode. I could squee and I could bitch. I saw brilliance and I saw major fail. I'm just…what is this show?! How dare you make me care so much when I see through your contrivance.

In other words…I need to talk!

Comments

[gidgetgal9.livejournal.com]

Well, I watched it fighting a nasty case of bronchitis and I have been keeping myself entertained by watching past seasons of Supernatural so I have a feeling that all colored my response going in.

I knew Dean was due to go off the deep end and that the boys would be at odds.

*I just don't get why Sam went in to kill Crowley just armed with what Rowena gave him. Why would he trust her hex bag? I missed Sam being smarter on that one.

*Why did Cas go down so easy and almost end up killed? He has his grace back and I remember him with stolen grace being able to grab demon Dean at the beginning of the season to save Sam. Is there something I'm missing on that?

I told my watching partner, it makes me want to write my own ending where Cas goes to Heaven to fetch Bobby so he can help co-ordinate a plan to save the Idgits!

That is probably the watching past seasons talking right there.

Didn't hate it but was disappointed at many parts of it.

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

I just don't care about any of them right now. They are all awful people. At least Crowley is vaguely interesting again.

Which is sad, because Pedowitz at the Upfronts this morning pretty much guaranteed this show will only end when J2 don't need money for the #boathouse anymore lol

[jennytork.livejournal.com]

I could squee and I could bitch. I saw brilliance and I saw major fail. I'm just…what is this show?!

This is me right now.I liked a few things, but overall I hate the storyline and have all season. I am also very disappointed in the writers, because I know they can do better than this.

But I am here for the duration, however long it lasts. However disappointed and angry I get.

Because I remember what was and AUs fix it all. I just wish it didn't have to be fixed, that's all.

Wow, got longwinded. Sorry.

[ficwriter1966.livejournal.com]

I ended up more satisfied than I've felt in a while! Dean's rampage reminded me of that classic moment in "Raiders of the Lost Ark" when Indy pulls out the gun and shoots the guy, like, "F*** this, it's time to move on." The Stynes were clichéd, annoying, time-wasting bad guys, and I was practically whooping at the screen as Dean coldly and efficiently got rid of them one by one.

I have yet to understand why a battle between angels, or between an angel and a human, is a FIST FIGHT, so my response to the Dean-Cas smackdown was, "Whatever."

Sam is an idiot. He reminds me of all the overeducated people I've worked with over the years who can't figure out how to hit the green button on the copier to make a copy.

I would LOVE to see Crowley go Full Evil. The actor's got the chops for it - let's put him to work, and give the boys a fully layered, worthy adversary.

[debbiel66.livejournal.com]

I watched three eps in a row, which I actually think helped improve the coherency of the whole thing. And I actually watched! Not watch...ff....watch...and so on. I thought all three episodes were....pretty good. Fine. Not as good as our best certainly, but much better than our worst. (And I completely agree with you about the Claire episode - best episode of that story arc by far)

As for this one....if I am working under the assumption that Dean was under the influence of the mark when he made the comment to Sam about wishing Sam was dead, then I think the vast majority of the episode works. If this is the new Dean, then I will feel very differently.

Because it is a law of the universe that Dean does NOT want Sam dead.

Just saying. :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*I just don't get why Sam went in to kill Crowley just armed with what Rowena gave him. Why would he trust her hex bag? I missed Sam being smarter on that one.

Yeah, good question. I pondered this also. My thinking is Sam didn't know how to kill Crowley. He is the King of Hell after all. He knows Rowena really wanted him dead so assumed her hex would work. Sam doesn't have anything in his arsenal to kill Crowley (that knife wouldn't have either I don't think).

*Why did Cas go down so easy and almost end up killed?

This is the biggest problem I have with the episode. How did MoC!Dean beat and angel And also - why wasn't Cas called to try and save Charlie once the boys found her? How did he not know everything that was going on? I can only assume he's more "human" than he's ever been. On twitter, someone suggested he has no power because he's cut off from heaven. To be honest, I have no idea. I don't why they gave Cas his juice and now he can't use it. He could hold demon!Dean but not MoC!Dean? My "fanon" is that he didn't want to hurt Dean AND he felt he need the beat down because he failed Charlie (much like Sam felt he deserved Dean's wrath at the funeral).

it makes me want to write my own ending where Cas goes to Heaven to fetch Bobby so he can help co-ordinate a plan to save the Idgits!

Oh please!!! These idjits need saving! From themselves! :(( (and yes, yes, do write something!)

That is probably the watching past seasons talking right there.

Yeah, hard that. The boys have never been so hateful toward each other as they have been these last 3 seasons. Carver likes his drama!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Just such awful people. It makes me remember that I like it when they rise above the awful people they hunt, not become them. But this was about becoming the monster right?

because Pedowitz at the Upfronts this morning pretty much guaranteed this show will only end when J2

Oh good. I'm glad you mentioned that here. I saw it on twitter, then couldn't find it again to comment (yeah, I'm that inept). So, the Js run this show? As in, they'll decide when this is over? As far as I can see that will be…never! Surely show will have run its course by - if not the next season, surely the one after? I mean, how many times can we end with Sam or Dean dying?!

(though I like that Pedowitz is so supportive. Is there actually money in this show now though?).

Hmmm, so many question marks...

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

Right? Like, you know I love me some Psycho-chesters, but that's not what we got last night. I just don't feel anything for any of these people right now. Dean saying he wishes his brother was dead? Nope, not here for that, but I'll let the rest of you fanwank that for me lol.

The show is pure profit for the studio right now. Every episode adds to the syndication profit, and even with J2's salaries, the budgeting is modest. For the network, it's one of the most stable shows they have, and does well for them in the 18-34 male demo, which is THE demo that Pedowitz has been courting since replacing Ostroff. Don't listen to fandom, the ad money that is being courted (financial, automotive, etc) is linked to that demo.

Pedowitz loves the show. He goes up to Van yearly to wine and dine J2. Same with Peter Roth, the head of WB.

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

Oh and Dean killing the kid who was SLEDGEHAMMERED as the Sam avatar? Yeah, no thanks, whatever Dabb! lol

[fireheart13.livejournal.com]

I agree, I felt Cas didn't WANT to hurt Dean, and was willing to take the punishment instead.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Nope, not here for that, but I'll let the rest of you fanwank that for me lol.

Ha! we're good at that. :) Strangely I felt little from that comment because..what the hell? Pure baiting for the drama. Dean, even with this amount of MoC influence, would never say that. But then we had Dean try and kill Sam in the season opener. Maybe Carver showing his true colours toward Sam? (though Dean doesn't get off lightly. I've never disliked him as much as I have this season…*weeps*).

and does well for them in the 18-34 male demo, which is THE demo that Pedowitz has been courting since replacing Ostroff.

I'm sorry…what? Males watch this show? I mean, I know some of my pre-pubesent boys like the show but 18-34?? So you're kinda messing up my fan head with the belief that the only reason they're keeping Cas on is because of that powerful section of fandom. So, the con presence isn't reflective of the general watching demo? I clearly know very little about all this…

I'm glad the heads love the show though. The Js are providing awesome off screen romance moments and the show, as frustrating as it is at times, still give us this ridiculous love/hate, (fuck or die) vibe that's bloody addictive.

[fireheart13.livejournal.com]

I did enjoy seeing the Stynes just owed down. "They're like gods in this town." "I kill gods." BAM!!!!!

ETA: I LOVED seeing Crowley "hulk out" at the end!! that little red mist coming from his eyes!!! YEAH!

[adrift-n-time.livejournal.com]

Pretty sure the Dean who admitted he'd rather have Sam burning on the pyre, instead of Charlie, is the MOC influenced Dean, but how sad is it that we're not sure? I honestly feel Dean is holding so much resentment toward Sam, that a part of him really does feel that way.

I want to see Sam succeed in everything he does, but I was relieved when he (Rowena) failed to kill Crowley. I felt so conflicted during that scene.

I've been holding out heaps of hope that Sam will finally be the one to save Dean, and I still posses a little of that hope, but with only one more episode to go this season, I'm now wondering if the MOC story is going to continue into next season, especially now that the Stynes are out of the picture... not really sure how I feel about that, except that I'm growing weary of this Dean, so I guess that means I'm ready for a change.

Overall I enjoyed the episode, and I look forward to checking back later to see the conversation going on here... this kind of 'review' is a great idea.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh yes yes!! My thought? At least they considered Sam?! Sam had a "voice" - even if it's (STILL!!) the poor kid trapped with a mad, killing family. Oh Sam (and Dean) you'll never get past those season 1 characteristics that have plagued you, like…for 10 seasons.

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

The CW has managed to increase male viewers for the network by 10% this season, skewing the network firmly to the middle for a gender balance, which is the current network trend. Flash, Arrow, and SPN are the main leaders in increasing the male demo, per Pedowitz, and this enables them to open up their ad sales buying to advertisers that are primarily male-skewing. They want that because those services are usually on the higher end of the price point.

I've been saying this for years -- fandom is NOT the general audience. You would think that people would listen to someone with a decade of network TV experience :P


p.s. Mark and Misha are there to give J2 time off. That time off is written in their contracts. Trust.

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

Dabb cannibalized his own episode (After School Special) for this embarrasing parallel. He should sit in the corner and think about the time he was a decent writer lol

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I am also very disappointed in the writers, because I know they can do better than this.

But they don't have to? Ok, cynical I know, but I think they know they have a dedicated fan base that will stick by because these characters have latched onto out hearts and just won't let go.

Wow, got longwinded. Sorry.

Oh hun, you really didn't. You should see the ep reaction I started writing for this ep. 10 paragraphs in and I thought - this will never end! So, I hear ya. They continue to kill us by tearing apart the very thing we watch this show for. We know the boys will be back together, but each time they get back there's added baggage that's surely got to get to heavy to carry one day. :(

Saving grace? We know we have another 23 eps ahead and most of them will be them working side by side together. :)

[milly-gal.livejournal.com]

Castiel will allow himself to be destroyed before he ever EVER steps up and stops Dean going full on off the reservation!

Sam's breaking my heart, quite literally, but finally we get to see that he IS capable and WILLING to save Dean. No more Sammy ney saying thank goodness!

I did actually enjoy it, quite a bit! And next week is scaring the holy hell out of me.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Ok. Trust I do. And I'd say not just Mark and Misha.

I've always suspected that fandom is a microcosm of the audience, but wow, I'm still shocked that males in that age group are the demo for this show. I would have bet money on women being the target audience (especially with the lack of women on the show).

But yeah. I can see it in Arrow and Flash (even though I've not watched Flash), so I have to trust that SPN is in that group also. But , but…Fan Fiction wasn't for that demo surely?! They would have been puking into their popcorn over that.

[tebtosca.livejournal.com]

Why are you assuming that Fan Fiction did well? Ask Jeeves, which was the week after, got better ratings than it did, and that was a random MOTW based on a board game lol. Especially considering the amount of promotion they put into it, which should have made it premiere/finale-level ratings. My boyfriend, who is in that demo and has watched from the pilot, skipped it entirely.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

They can't. If show had finished in S5 maybe. But they have had to reinvent it all so anything from back them has been forgotten. But I know you know that. I haven't worked out why they haven't actually advanced these characters. Surely no one watches this "casually" - the dedicated audience knows their history and surely it's time to let them learn (yeah, yeah I know. The "oh hun" icon is imminent…;D)

[jennytork.livejournal.com]

I truly hope so.

But right at this moment I'm finding it very hard to believe. My own cynicism showing through.

The main thing right now is I can't WAIT to see how they're going to fix this mess. (And if I don't like it, there's always writing a fix-it to fall back on.)

I'm just impatient for them to get it FIXED already and move on to being the brothers we know and love. They're IN there, it shows even now, with Dean trying to keep Sam away from him to protect Sam and Sam making very questionable choices to save Dean....

Seriously, boys, Mary and John need to come back just to whip your behinds and make you two solve it.


*glances down at the newborn plot bunny gnawing on her leg* .....GREAT......

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Got 6 minutes in, turned it off, went out, haven't seen the rest yet, not sure if I even want to.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Dean's rampage over the Stynes was one of my fave things. He DIDN"T LET THEM MONOLOGUE! Best thing ever! I was surprised they were gone so quickly. But then I remember there's heaps of them, so they still could be the Big Bad next season. Dean needed heaps of bodies to kill so it was the perfect set up.

I have yet to understand why a battle between angels, or between an angel and a human, is a FIST FIGHT,

THIS SO MUCH! I have never followed this logic. Even in earlier eps (ya know, the golden years), demon or angels fighting the Winchesters with their fists. What even is that. With one power bolt Cas could have had Dean incapacitated. It was the weakest moment for me. If ever Cas was in effectual it was now (and last week). I wish I knew what they were doing with him…

Sam is an idiot. He reminds me of all the overeducated people I've worked with over the years who can't figure out how to hit the green button on the copier to make a copy.

Oh, you gotta talk to me more about this. You mean when he met with Crowley? Or just in general? Aside from Sam having absolutely zero character growth (or voice) this season he's just been floundering. I don't even know with Sam t be honest. He's being set up to be the guilty brother who will (once again!) jeopardise the world to save/revenge his brother and will neither gain Dean's approval or support, but instead his distrust. I'm just not ready for S5 all over again.../o\

Full evil Crowley would be good! (though it could mean he'd have to kill them. Or they would have to kill him. I'm always interested to see how they work around them NOT killing Crowley. It seems, after this ep, it's not as easy to kill him as it looks…).

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I saw your post hun. xx Um, I'd suggest the rest if you can, as those 6 minutes are really just Dean not being Dean. This ep is such a mixed bag. No one comes off as "nice". It's all darkness and death. Jensen is a thing to behold though. His performance as "other" is worth watching. There's something about this no-nonsense, ruthless Dean that's interesting. But it's not Dean, so it's like watching a monster that they'll have to do something with sooner rather than later. More sinister than Demon!Dean. I suppose they've been heading here all season. Hopefully they'll put the is horrid Dean behind them once he's cured.